PG Staff, would you say that there's been a growth in the # of coaches attending PG events that are not D1 level?
SMOKEMINSIDE,
Go to the PG commitment page. From there you can choose any college to click on (drop down box). Go to the Ivy League Colleges to see there recruits. Each name will have a link to a player profile. This will allow you to see what those players did.
For some reason people seem to think the top academic colleges like the Ivy Schools don't recruit PG players. Truth is the majority of their recruits are PG players. Some more than others, but it's right there for anyone to look up.
PGStaff posted:SMOKEMINSIDE,
Go to the PG commitment page. From there you can choose any college to click on (drop down box). Go to the Ivy League Colleges to see there recruits. Each name will have a link to a player profile. This will allow you to see what those players did.
For some reason people seem to think the top academic colleges like the Ivy Schools don't recruit PG players. Truth is the majority of their recruits are PG players. Some more than others, but it's right there for anyone to look up.
Yeah, sorry, PG...edited my question to remove reference to Ivy just before you wrote me. Shouldn't have included them as I know the talent level is bona fide D1. I also just recalled that you don't pay coaches to be there so it's hard to know for certain which coaches are attending events or not. Sending you a PM. Thanks for taking the time to answer.
PGStaff posted:PABASEBALLDAD,
Over 300 college coaches in Jupiter this year. Those are just the ones we know of. The usual, U of Florida, Virginia, Oklahoma, Ole Miss, TCU, Arizona State, UCLA types, many send two or three coaches, but it was nice to see a lot of DII, DIII and Juco coaches this year. Also, pretty much most of the top agents are there as well.
Actually with that many kids committed, it draws a lot of colleges just to follow their own recruits. Not to mention some of the very best non committed players/pitchers are there. And there are a large number of the top underclassmen.
Many scouts and recruiters at this event don't wear their logo. It allows them to move around without being bothered. Most have complete trust in TrackMan, so they don't even have to carry a gun.
Ok. You have the data so I believe you. Just seemed to be a lot more pro guys than college. And I can confirm. My sons future coach did come down to check on his guys that were there
Going to revive this thread after the 14U national this past weekend.
First PG showcase for 2022. The workout results have been posted and the 14U PG Select players were announced and I'm guessing that in a couple of weeks those metrics from all the 2022's will be accumulated/compared and rankings will come out for this class for the 1st time.
Will be interesting to see how 2022 compares. His OF velo (83) is in the top 8% of all 2022's as was his 60 (7.09 on a soggy track which is down from a 6.91 at Vandy), however his exit Velo (78) was down from what he was expecting based on other camps (mid 80's), so that was the only downer.
BP was ok, with 3/4 hard line drives, a deep fly to RC, and several other hard hit grounders, he said it was "meh".
He went 1/5 in the games with the 2 hardest hit balls being long outs (oh well).
He received 0 balls in the outfield, but made 2 really good plays at 2nd and turned and started 2 double plays.
Really don't care where he ranks (it will provide the necessary prodding whether perceived high or low), but interested to see how he comps to kids that he's played with/against for the last couple of years.
I'm pretty sure that he'll be ranked below kids he knows he's better than, and above kids that he is not as good as.................but I've always told him, if you really want to know how good others think you are, check the email addresses in August of the organizations asking you to come play for their teams.
One thing that we did learn from this weekend is that kids are BIGGER. He is 5'10" and 170 (which is big for "normal" freshman), but here you could surely tell that he was a CF/2nd baseman. One 1st baseman was 6'4" and 225 (not sure how the football coach missed him) 
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What's the question ?
Yeah, you stated "I don't really care where he ranks" yet the vibe of the post indicates otherwise. Don't worry about their numbers. It's just a number. Here's a good idea to see how he compares:
1) Look at the guys who are getting a lot of attention in his year group and compare his measurable to them. Is he comparable? Less favorable would indicate areas you need to work on in order to catch up (but guess what - while he is playing catch up they are working too)
2) Watch him objectively during BP and live games. During BP does he seem to generate the same bat speed consistently as his peers? Is the ball jumping off the bat? Is the contact loud? That is what turns heads. Getting a few balls measured at a showcase isn't the end all/be all. IF throwing velocity can be misleading because some players will take extra steps (poor form) in order to ensure velocity on the throw...which may or may not even be accurate. Is his footwork and glovework on par with his peers or better? Again, these are things he can work on. He's a 2022...lots of time.
3) I know I had the same kind of outlook as you when I took my son to his first (and only) PG showcase. He was written up in the scout blog notes (you will know if he turned a head if they wrote about him there), played great defense, graded higher than I expected and made Top Prospect/Team lists. We got to see how he stacked up against that particular group he was being compared to. It gave us a general idea, but honestly, we already knew about how good he was...and so do you.
What I would caution against is "chasing a grade or number." Some on here will say it matters, and it may to some schools as they get their data from a number of sources. I just don't think it matters as much as most do. What matters is being the best student and community member he can be, best teammate he can be, and enjoying the game. Pressure on these guys at a young age to be more than that is what often leads to burnout.
I have long held the belief that the whole ranking thing is more of a marketing ploy as it relates to disclosing these to the public than anything else. They don't need to do that, they can still grade them and make it accessible to certain levels of account access. But they know dads and moms will want to make sure Johnny has a higher score than Billy down the street, and psychologically it's the same thing as keeping up with the Jones.
Just let him play and have fun and keep him developing with the right coaches who are doing it for the right reasons...things will work out on their own.
My 13yo son wanted to go to a Showcase and I gave him the minimum metrics before I would part with my $. It did silence him. Now, he is interested in colleges (he has cousins that rising sophs, Jrs & Srs). I told him to look at the rosters and recruiting classes of the schools he is interested in and look at their PG profile. It has kept him both busy and more importantly quiet.
My son never attended a PG showcase....but played in the WWBA as at 14U and 17U. By the end of his 17U summer, he was ranked much higher overall and at his primary position (SS) in our state than we would have expected. I'm fairly certain that it meant ZERO to any coach he had talked to....and also got him ZERO calls from anyone outside of our initial "search radius".
The main upside is being ranked high enough with PG or PBR to be invited to the exclusive events that are heavily scouted or to provide documentation when you are emailing coaches.
New to the site. I also have 2022s who have only attended local PG tournaments (NY NJ) with their travel team. I wondered about moving forward with attending PG showcases or PBR showcases. The rankings thing always confused me as to how they determined them and what if we simply cannot afford to go to Florida etc?
They have attended a couple college camps and performed well, but it was more for the experience and to make initial introductions. Trying to figure out what next?
Still early to get into the showcases. I'd buy a pocket radar for $100-150 and see how hard they throw/exit velocity. Let them play high school. If they're not some of the better JV players or on varsity it probably isn't time to get them to showcases unless you come from a powerhouse hs program. There are some cheaper showcases that are $50-150 where you can go just to get some measurables, but don't expect to see LSU there. Let them play summer and see how they stack up to the competition and make moves based off their success. Unless they are complete studs save the money for now
Thank you for taking the time to respond. Believe me it's greatly appreciated. As we enter these high school years and they have the desire to play in college, im open to any all suggestions.
Twindad, we are fortunate to live in decent proximity to many colleges. Unless your kids want to play in college far outside of our region or they are studs (USA Baseball quality player) then I think investing in the bigger tourneys in GA and FL is worth it. Fwiw, I convinced my kid to invest our resources in his development (strength, conditioning, and bb specific training) rather than do showcases and southern tourneys. So far it has paid off for him, but the last few days of pre-cold temps has me rethinking Florida may be a good place to be in January.
From what I can tell the only 2022s currently ranked (at least for NYS) are kids that attended PG showcases. I have a 2022 that is listed in the top 5 in FB velo in NYS and was all tournament at the BCS National Championship. He is not ranked.
My 2020 has never attended a PG showcase, but has played multiple tournaments in GA and FL and was just ranked when PG released their 2020 rankings.
TwinDad, sent you a PM.
I tend to agree with NYCdad and 2022dad, I think if you are seeing them being high level D1, PG and PBR showcases are important and help with the recruiting process. If not, they may not be helpful. I would do some kind of showcase so you see where they fall with measurables.
My sons never attended a PG Showcase. We did attend PBR camp because it is required to get invite to PBR Futures Game which is fantastic. I do think it helps PG rating/ranking when you attend showcase and there are very few high rankings that did not attend showcase. It is where they focus on the numbers versus just playing. Both roads work. My son is going to P5 and was offered before Junior year so not going did not hurt him in that perspective.
Short answer is if you attend a showcase they get a good look at you. They can then grade you, and you get ranked. Now it could be that you are in the 1000+ ranking, but it's still a ranking. Keep in mind that while a kid may be ranked the number 9 2022 in the state, if only 9 kids went to a showcase then the ranking is not valuable.
Showcases are expensive. They also aren't required to play in college. Unless you have a 2022 throwing 90+ i don't see the point in attending a showcase. I've seen many MANY kids attend showcases and get mediocre scores even though they are the top local players in their age group. It's impressive for a 13u to be throwing 80 mph, but 80mph doesn't get you a good score because most pitchers get there by their senior year.
Projection can only get you so far, and 90+% of kids will not be offered college scholarships until the summer before their senior year. Of those 10% that were offered I would estimate that at least 3% don't attend the college that offered. This could be due to them not progressing like the college thought they would, the kid not having the grades, the kid deciding when he's older that he wants to go to a different school, coaching changes...etc. A lot can change from 9th grade to 12th.
Twindad, what position is your son? It could make a difference, PO or position player.
Ripken Fan posted:Twindad, what position is your son? It could make a difference, PO or position player.
PLEASE don't say he's a PO in 9th grade 
Lol no he isn't, I never understood how or why kids do that so young. I have two of them, they both are middle infielders. The one is also a pitcher as well.
Twindad posted:New to the site. I also have 2022s who have only attended local PG tournaments (NY NJ) with their travel team. I wondered about moving forward with attending PG showcases or PBR showcases. The rankings thing always confused me as to how they determined them and what if we simply cannot afford to go to Florida etc?
They have attended a couple college camps and performed well, but it was more for the experience and to make initial introductions. Trying to figure out what next?
Welcome to the site.
The general rule of thumb around here is... don't showcase until you have something to show. That mostly means throwing velocity, exit velocity and sprint speed. For younger guys (like yours), you really need to be "elite" in one or more of those categories to make it worthwhile. For juniors and seniors it's more about documenting your numbers so that recruiters can figure out where you fit in.
Ranking is not particularly important for most kids. Something like 20,000 freshman play college baseball every year. The vast majority will not be ranked anywhere.
You probably have one or more D1 schools within an hour's drive of your home. Check their websites for fall "World Series" events. Those are end of fall season intrasquad games. Take your boys to watch, even if they aren't interested in the school. That will give them an idea of what college baseball looks like. Have them focus on the size (musculature, not just height), athleticism, and speed of the players. Those characteristics are often what separate the difference levels of college baseball. Should be a fun day with your boys if you can find one.
Midatlanticdad,
Thank you!
Welcome to the site. I suggest you spend some time on here going through the old posts. There is lots of information on here regarding the recruiting process. As a 2022 you are early, which is good. Use the next couple of years to educate yourself. Your sons need to focus on academics followed by baseball. Feel free to ask questions. Folks who post on this website come from all backgrounds, from parents whose kids never made it to the college level to parents whose kids skipped college to go right to the pros.
TwinDad, welcome to the site. One thing you might want to do is to look at the specific measurables of 2022s who did PG showcases and got good scores (say, 8.5 or higher). Compare your boys' measurables to those, and see where your boys would stack up. If your sons would get a good score, it may be worth your time and money. My son's HS team has a couple of 2022s who did a showcase ~6 months ago (as 8th graders), and they both got very high scores -- in that case, I think it's worth it, even at a young age.
P.S. -- full disclosure: my 2019 never did a showcase.
My son just attended his first showcase. He is a young 2022 (14 years 3 months)
His numbers were 60 7.47, OF velo 80, INF velo 77, Catching velo 72, pop 2.1,
He is a switch hitter (exit velo 76) and his results were all above average for his Grad class.
Any idea what his grade may be? Thanks for the help!
Coletrain14 posted:My son just attended his first showcase. He is a young 2022 (14 years 3 months)
His numbers were 60 7.47, OF velo 80, INF velo 77, Catching velo 72, pop 2.1,
He is a switch hitter (exit velo 76) and his results were all above average for his Grad class.
Any idea what his grade may be? Thanks for the help!
I'd guess 7.5 or 8.0.
Coletrain14 posted:My son just attended his first showcase. He is a young 2022 (14 years 3 months)
His numbers were 60 7.47, OF velo 80, INF velo 77, Catching velo 72, pop 2.1,
He is a switch hitter (exit velo 76) and his results were all above average for his Grad class.
Any idea what his grade may be? Thanks for the help!
Coletrain14 posted:My son just attended his first showcase. He is a young 2022 (14 years 3 months)
His numbers were 60 7.47, OF velo 80, INF velo 77, Catching velo 72, pop 2.1,
He is a switch hitter (exit velo 76) and his results were all above average for his Grad class.
Any idea what his grade may be? Thanks for the help!
I think probably 7.5. A lot is tied to velo. There is a chart (maybe even in this string) that is pretty accurate on grade according to velo. My son was 79 IF 80 off the mound at 14,he was an 8.
Thank you!
baseballhs posted:Coletrain14 posted:My son just attended his first showcase. He is a young 2022 (14 years 3 months)
His numbers were 60 7.47, OF velo 80, INF velo 77, Catching velo 72, pop 2.1,
He is a switch hitter (exit velo 76) and his results were all above average for his Grad class.
Any idea what his grade may be? Thanks for the help!
Coletrain14 posted:My son just attended his first showcase. He is a young 2022 (14 years 3 months)
His numbers were 60 7.47, OF velo 80, INF velo 77, Catching velo 72, pop 2.1,
He is a switch hitter (exit velo 76) and his results were all above average for his Grad class.
Any idea what his grade may be? Thanks for the help!
I think probably 7.5. A lot is tied to velo. There is a chart (maybe even in this string) that is pretty accurate on grade according to velo. My son was 79 IF 80 off the mound at 14,he was an 8.
They also tend to grade switch hitters and guys who are 2-way players a little higher too. I would say watch that top prospect list and if he's on it then he's likely gonna get an 8
I agree with the scores posted. Unless your 2022 has a D1 ready metric, most live in the 7.5 to 8 range. Is even 8.5 relevant for national exposure?
I'm not sure the score matters much. There are plenty of 8.5 and 9s that will not receive a single offer. If you're going for a score I'd say you're doing it for the wrong reasons.
PABaseball posted:I'm not sure the score matters much. There are plenty of 8.5 and 9s that will not receive a single offer. If you're going for a score I'd say you're doing it for the wrong reasons.
I think by height?
Showcases, camps, tournaments, etc can get expensive and time consuming. When son was in high school we did the minimal (only 1 PG showcase), mostly because I (we) were ignorant as to the process (didn't find this site until later). Our belief was if son was "good enough" they will find him. This does NOT necessarily happen. Use the scores/results as a way to measure your own personal improvements and if you compare with older participants it might give you an idea what NCAA division he may fit into. National exposure and accolades is what will boost your edge in the recruiting. It seemed that when 1 or 2 publications gave positive accolades, it was like a band wagon where many others followed, often referring to the same thing. That is why major showcases may be helpful.
I agree with the scores posted. Unless your 2022 has a D1 ready metric, most live in the 7.5 to 8 range. Is even 8.5 relevant for national exposure?
Son had a PG grade of 8 end of Jr. year. Don't let a score hold you back from reaching for something you think is unobtainable. Son had minimal college offers, was fortunate to find the right fit, successful college career, and is still playing. It is difficult to accurately evaluate a player in a few hours, with maybe 15 minute of actual demonstrating skills.
2022NYC posted:I agree with the scores posted. Unless your 2022 has a D1 ready metric, most live in the 7.5 to 8 range. Is even 8.5 relevant for national exposure?
I think that is a strong starting score for 14. It tells you he’s farther along than most at that age. Is he a fairly physically mature 14 year old? If he continues to move up, he will be in good shape.
My son is a very young 14. He is just now beginning to grow.
Then you are in good shape if he continues to progress. I would only go back when you ve seen a bump in velos.
Here's a little perspective. My son had a former major leaguer at his high school team practice yesterday. I won't say the name of the player, but they don't come any bigger. The message this guy sent to the kids was interesting. My son said he told the team he actually felt bad for them, because for their college recruiting, it's now tougher because there is so much emphasis on statistics and measurable like velocity, exit velo, etc. He said there is so much emphasis on that stuff, and not enough on seeing if a guy can really play baseball. He said he played football and basketball at his high school as well, didn't pick up a baseball until spring. In the pros, he said some guys were late bloomers and really didn't show what they really could do until they were 25-26 years old. Today, they would not be in the game any longer. Basically, he told them getting recruited for a chance to play in college is much HARDER now, as opposed to when he came up. Interesting, we think kids have more opportunities, but here is a guy who is saying all this stuff makes it harder.
That said, I remember a couple years ago my son went to a local D1 college camp, and the head coach addressed the players and parents at the start of the camp. He mentioned he would be letting a few guys that he did not recruit go because they were "showcase" players and their skills did not show up in game situations.
Yes, it's important to know what pond to fish in, but you don't really need to go to a showcase or spend a ton of money traveling to the largest tournaments to see where that may be. Get a local coach with good credentials who will give you an objective assessment of your kid's talent.