For a pitcher how good is it to get a 8.0 ?
How do coaches and scouts use such ratings to determine how good a player is?
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Good enough to be encouraged to keep working hard.
Not good enough to drop any advanced placement courses.
Not good enough to drop any advanced placement courses.
Do yourself a huge favor....forget about ratings.
quote:Originally posted by eatersbaseball:
Do yourself a huge favor....forget about ratings.
What ratings will do is open doors and get interest at certain schools. Your son will still have to play in front of coaches and perform to end up on a college roster. Keep him working hard!
quote:Your son will still have to play in front of coaches and perform to end up on a college roster. Keep him working hard!
I agree with that wholeheartedly!!!
quote:Originally posted by Swampboy:
Good enough to be encouraged to keep working hard.
Not good enough to drop any advanced placement courses.
Can you please elaborate on this comment for us. The PG rating means a great deal to a lot of people and not just players and parents.
I think what Swampboy is saying (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that it's a good rating but doesn't guarantee anything. Regardless of the rating the kid needs to continue to work at his game and continue to work hard in classroom. It's very sound advice and ties in with what birdman14 said about still having to perform in front of college coaches.
quote:The PG rating means a great deal to a lot of people and not just players and parents.
The pg rating is of paramount importance to the players and parents.
Ahh once again the rating quagmire raises its ugly head!!
What about a player that's never been to a PG event? Is it important for recruitment to be rated by PG?
Coach2709 has it correct.
Treat it as validation that you're not being a fool to invest in the goal of playing college ball if your son is serious about it (assuming you're a parent).
Now tell him to put the rating aside, get back to work, and focus on the things he can control--his workouts, his diet, his practice habits, his academic performance, etc.
Don't let the rating cause him either to lower his sights or to think he's already got it made.
It's sort of like a sign on the highway that says "St. Louis 100 miles." It doesn't mean you're gonna get to St. Louis. It means the road you're on can take you to St. Louis if you keep going.
Best wishes.
Treat it as validation that you're not being a fool to invest in the goal of playing college ball if your son is serious about it (assuming you're a parent).
Now tell him to put the rating aside, get back to work, and focus on the things he can control--his workouts, his diet, his practice habits, his academic performance, etc.
Don't let the rating cause him either to lower his sights or to think he's already got it made.
It's sort of like a sign on the highway that says "St. Louis 100 miles." It doesn't mean you're gonna get to St. Louis. It means the road you're on can take you to St. Louis if you keep going.
Best wishes.
quote:Originally posted by ducobaseballmom:
What about a player that's never been to a PG event? Is it important for recruitment to be rated by PG?
My personal opinion based on limited experience is that the absence of a rating is not an impediment to college recruiting as long as a player: a) has the talent coaches are looking for, and b) plays for a travel program that is capable of getting college coaches to see them play.
My 2011 son's travel coach placed almost his entire roster in D1 programs. I think two of them have ratings and a third player is ranked even though he doesn't have a rating. Neither my son nor most of his teammates ever went to an individual showcase. What made the difference for them was a coach who knew what he was doing and was committed to finding suitable opportunities for all his players.
I would expect that a rating could be very helpful if you can't rely on your travel coach to market you or if you're trying to attract pro attention or in other situations. Perhaps people with other experiences will explain how ratings worked for them.
It's sort of like a sign on the highway that says "St. Louis 100 miles." It doesn't mean you're gonna get to St. Louis. It means the road you're on can take you to St. Louis if you keep going.
Great Analogy Swampboy....
PG showcases/tournaments etc., are great ways to get exposure. It is up to the player to use those opportunities to show what type of player they are and to perform to his best ability at these events.
Being on a top notch travel team with a top notch coach is also a great way to gain exposure.
The PG number will get you noticed, the grades in school will get you interest, and how you perform in front of the college coaches will get you in.
Great Analogy Swampboy....
PG showcases/tournaments etc., are great ways to get exposure. It is up to the player to use those opportunities to show what type of player they are and to perform to his best ability at these events.
Being on a top notch travel team with a top notch coach is also a great way to gain exposure.
The PG number will get you noticed, the grades in school will get you interest, and how you perform in front of the college coaches will get you in.
The important thing about the rating is that your son is on the PG radar, which translates to being on the radars of colleges across the country. I can tell you that my two sons' PG ratings alone would not have gotten either into the school of their choice without strong academics. Keep working on the game and working on the books. It's a winning combination.
quote:How do coaches and scouts use such ratings to determine how good a player is?
Coaches and scouts watch a player play to learn how good he is.
Now, a scout might go see an 8.0 before he'd go see a 6.5. He might go see a 9 or 10 before he goes to see an 8. But the key is what happens on the field. He might go to the field to see the 8-9-10, but it's the 7 that shines that day.
Agree with what has been said so far. The rating is a tool. Take it for what it is and get back to work! Some PG "Top Prospects" will even not touch a college field. Make good grades, stay away from bad influences, and get thee to the gym.
I know 8.0 is only a grade and no guarantee that someone can even play in college. I just want to know how good of a grade it is?
Do most pitchers end up with ratings in the 6s 7s 8s 9s?
If a 10 means you will be a high draft pick, does a 8 at least say the player is PROBABLY good enough to play D1 in college?
Does anyone know how you get ranked by perfect game and where to find out that information?
Do most pitchers end up with ratings in the 6s 7s 8s 9s?
If a 10 means you will be a high draft pick, does a 8 at least say the player is PROBABLY good enough to play D1 in college?
Does anyone know how you get ranked by perfect game and where to find out that information?
If you right click on the number, you can see that they define it pretty specifically. It means he could potentially do any of those things listed if he continues to work hard and improve, and if PG is right.
quote:Originally posted by bballforever:
I know 8.0 is only a grade and no guarantee that someone can even play in college. I just want to know how good of a grade it is?
Do most pitchers end up with ratings in the 6s 7s 8s 9s?
If a 10 means you will be a high draft pick, does a 8 at least say the player is PROBABLY good enough to play D1 in college?
Does anyone know how you get ranked by perfect game and where to find out that information?
Based on my experience and other's, a pitcher with an 8 grade generally has the tools notable on a limited observation, to play on a decent D1 team. My son was an 8.5 RHP and had a decent college career (mid-major). The grade guarentees nothing, obviously. I've seen more talented players absolutley stink up the place until they got cut, transfered or quit.
Play in a PG event or showcase and you get graded, I think. wwww.perfectgame.org
You can go to Perfectgame.org and check the commitments for colleges you're interested in. Then you can look up the profiles of those players and see their ratings. Even without a subscription, I think you can access last year's info on commitments.
Depending on the school, you might find players with no ratings and players with ratings at or below 8.0. However, you'll also find a lot of 2010 graduates with ratings above 8 ended up without college commitments.
Don't read too much into the specific number.
A rating is just an educated guess about potential based on one day's performance. The work your son does after earning the rating will matter a whole lot more than the rating itself.
If your son thinks his rating is too low, let it motivate him to work harder to prove that it's wrong.
If he likes the rating, tell him to work harder to prove that it's accurate.
Depending on the school, you might find players with no ratings and players with ratings at or below 8.0. However, you'll also find a lot of 2010 graduates with ratings above 8 ended up without college commitments.
Don't read too much into the specific number.
A rating is just an educated guess about potential based on one day's performance. The work your son does after earning the rating will matter a whole lot more than the rating itself.
If your son thinks his rating is too low, let it motivate him to work harder to prove that it's wrong.
If he likes the rating, tell him to work harder to prove that it's accurate.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Swampboy:
Now tell him to put the rating aside, get back to work, and focus on the things he can control--his workouts, his diet, his practice habits, his academic performance, etc.
Don't let the rating cause him either to lower his sights or to think he's already got it made.
It's sort of like a sign on the highway that says "St. Louis 100 miles." It doesn't mean you're gonna get to St. Louis. It means the road you're on can take you to St. Louis if you keep going.
QUOTE]
We recently had a DI coach tell us parents that (a) you can't get too high or low about showcase ratings, and (b) for example there are some players who are showcase beasts and can run the 60 in 6.5 but couldn't steal a base to save their lives. He insisted that's why coaches make the effort to get to the summer college showcase tournaments - they want to see game play.
It's an important piece of the bigger puzzle. Bottom line, a coach can't tell if a pitcher is a head case from a showcase, but he can if he sees him in a tie game with bases loaded and one out.
Now tell him to put the rating aside, get back to work, and focus on the things he can control--his workouts, his diet, his practice habits, his academic performance, etc.
Don't let the rating cause him either to lower his sights or to think he's already got it made.
It's sort of like a sign on the highway that says "St. Louis 100 miles." It doesn't mean you're gonna get to St. Louis. It means the road you're on can take you to St. Louis if you keep going.
QUOTE]
We recently had a DI coach tell us parents that (a) you can't get too high or low about showcase ratings, and (b) for example there are some players who are showcase beasts and can run the 60 in 6.5 but couldn't steal a base to save their lives. He insisted that's why coaches make the effort to get to the summer college showcase tournaments - they want to see game play.
It's an important piece of the bigger puzzle. Bottom line, a coach can't tell if a pitcher is a head case from a showcase, but he can if he sees him in a tie game with bases loaded and one out.
Swampboy and Rockford Mom - I give your responses a 10!
What did his evaluation say? How old is he?
quote:Originally posted by Swampboy:
Coach2709 has it correct.
Treat it as validation that you're not being a fool to invest in the goal of playing college ball if your son is serious about it (assuming you're a parent).
Now tell him to put the rating aside, get back to work, and focus on the things he can control--his workouts, his diet, his practice habits, his academic performance, etc.
Don't let the rating cause him either to lower his sights or to think he's already got it made.
It's sort of like a sign on the highway that says "St. Louis 100 miles." It doesn't mean you're gonna get to St. Louis. It means the road you're on can take you to St. Louis if you keep going.
Best wishes.
Lots of good stuff here but I especially like the ST Louis comment.
No matter if one is rated an 7, 8, 9 or a 10 one still should be working hard both on the field and in the classroom, nothing is ever a "given". Take it for what it is, 10 doesn't mean you will be drafted, 8 doesn't mean you won't. You can be a 10 but not attractive to the HC at a major program because your classroom performance doesn't meet his schools standards, or you could be an 8 but you have stellar work habits in the classroom. He will decide who he is going to recruit and who he isn't, no matter what the rating.
I happen to think that PG ratings are, for most players, pretty darn accurate. This is usually easier to decipher after the fact.
If one feels that 8 isn't apppropriate,probably you are worng as I actually think they get it right more than wrong.
quote:I happen to think that PG ratings are, for most players, pretty darn accurate. This is usually easier to decipher after the fact.
I do too. Hindsight is usually 20-20 or better. PG is usually pretty accurate. Do they miss one or two? sure, but not often.
My son's PG rating came with enough information to give me a good idea of where he was at tools wise compared to his peers. Can a clearer picture be had by asking others if they think an "8" is good? It depends on your perspective several years down the road......if he doesn't succeed in a decent college baseball program and because of that "8" you expected him to.....then that "8" is definitely not good . You can assign a number to a player's skills that are measured by a stopwatch or a radar but you can't rate someone's desire until you've been around that guy a great deal. You have been around your son enough to know just how good that "8" really is. That's crazy eights.......
I was amazed at how accurate the PG evaluations are. We are not overly familiar with PG in the Northwest as they only visit one time a year and have no tournaments in the area but to my surprise show up and rate kids and hit some of their tendancies and positive attributes and describe their play accurately. I was impressed. I am always the first skeptic off the bus saying prove it.
The only real ratings in IMO are grades being a PG 8 is kinda like having 3.6 GPA and a 1250 on your PSAT. Tools to work with definitely, room for improvement you bet. Control what you can and let the rest happen. Good Luck
The only real ratings in IMO are grades being a PG 8 is kinda like having 3.6 GPA and a 1250 on your PSAT. Tools to work with definitely, room for improvement you bet. Control what you can and let the rest happen. Good Luck
quote:Originally posted by TheUnDiscovered:
What did his evaluation say? How old is he?
He is 17 and the write up was brief. It talked about a good curve change and fastball.
I know it does not mean give up or you have arrived in the bigs. I just wanted to know what the average score is for most players in the last couple of years. I read somewhere on the site kids got scores below a 6, but I do not remember if anyone said the average score was a ?????
Average doesn't mean much. However, based on kids I know who have been rated and who have gone on to college, an 8.0 is likely to be recruited by mid level D1 schools.
quote:Originally posted by 3FingeredGlove:
Average doesn't mean much. However, based on kids I know who have been rated and who have gone on to college, an 8.0 is likely to be recruited by mid level D1 schools.
This is where the huge confusion begins for most. Keep in mind a top level D1 will still recruit you for their program, however, competing with lots of 10's you may see more bench time than at a program that is mid level. The 8 will have to, no doubt, grind it out more than others.
Use the rating, that is most likely pretty accurate, as a benchmark for recruiting.
I have heard people say that their players have raised their rating, is this true, isn't PG rating a projection and different from a ranking, not necessarily in the here and now?
quote:I have heard people say that their players have raised their rating, is this true, isn't PG rating a projection and different from a ranking, not necessarily in the here and now? noidea
This is true. But I remember in one thread PG said that they don't like to do it because it means that they were wrong the first time. But it does happen. I also know of one that went down. From a 10 to a 9.5. Which is still pretty darn good!
PG ratings do go up and ratings do go down. It all depends on the players performance at the particular showcase he was evaluated at. Pitchers for example will move up if their velocity improves.
If as a freshman he threw 80 and had good mechanics, arm action etc...he got a 7.5. Next year as a sophomore he's at 85 he goes up to an 8. Following year 88 he gets a 8.5 - 9. Assuming mechanics stayed good, good command, off speed, etc...I'm sure its the same for position players/hitters as well. They improve their 60 speed, IF/OF velocities, hitting, they go up. If their measurables go the other way their grades go down...go back and look at the history of players that have been in the PG system for two or more years and you'll see this...
If as a freshman he threw 80 and had good mechanics, arm action etc...he got a 7.5. Next year as a sophomore he's at 85 he goes up to an 8. Following year 88 he gets a 8.5 - 9. Assuming mechanics stayed good, good command, off speed, etc...I'm sure its the same for position players/hitters as well. They improve their 60 speed, IF/OF velocities, hitting, they go up. If their measurables go the other way their grades go down...go back and look at the history of players that have been in the PG system for two or more years and you'll see this...
How about I ask the question this way.
How many parents had their kid get an 8.0 at a PG showcase? Of those kids, how many went on to play college ball?
How many parents had their kid get an 8.0 at a PG showcase? Of those kids, how many went on to play college ball?
bballforever,
You have a PM.
You have a PM.
quote:Originally posted by bballforever:
How about I ask the question this way.
How many parents had their kid get an 8.0 at a PG showcase? Of those kids, how many went on to play college ball?
Son's 2011 friend got a 8.0 as a sophomore pitcher, @86- just like Elroy said.
He signed in the fall with a Big East school.
PGStaff has admitted that sometimes they do get it wrong. I belive the discussion was about Dan Hudson, ranked 8.0 in Ft.Myers in January of his junior high school year. Played at Old Domionion, drafted, made his major league debut with the White Sox and went to the Diamondbacks this year. A great success story in that you do need to keep working at it. Here is his profile: http://www.perfectgame.org/Pla...profile.aspx?ID=9026
....if posting the profile link above is not in good form for this site, let me know and I will take it down....
I think that a PG Showcase Rating of an 8 is good on it's own merit and, as Elroy points out, is indicitive of the players performance at the particular showcase.
One thing that factors into the grade though is the "projection" or potential of the player. If you have a young, physically immature pitcher, say 6"3" and 165 lbs, throwing 86 as a 2013 he may get a higher grade (1/2-1 point) than a physically mature, 2011 6'3" 210 lber based on smaller, younger player due to his projection.
Same for position players. If you have a bearded, mature kid versus a baby faced, yet to fill out kid with the same kinds of numbers, chances are the baby faced kid will get the benefit of the doubt and maybe get a 1/2 point higher rating.
All that said the ratings are much like taking a test or your ACT/SAT. The grade is dependent on your performance. Keep working and improving like many of the posters have suggested and that 8 grade could become a 9 or higher with hard work!!!
One thing that factors into the grade though is the "projection" or potential of the player. If you have a young, physically immature pitcher, say 6"3" and 165 lbs, throwing 86 as a 2013 he may get a higher grade (1/2-1 point) than a physically mature, 2011 6'3" 210 lber based on smaller, younger player due to his projection.
Same for position players. If you have a bearded, mature kid versus a baby faced, yet to fill out kid with the same kinds of numbers, chances are the baby faced kid will get the benefit of the doubt and maybe get a 1/2 point higher rating.
All that said the ratings are much like taking a test or your ACT/SAT. The grade is dependent on your performance. Keep working and improving like many of the posters have suggested and that 8 grade could become a 9 or higher with hard work!!!
I've seen a player rated a pg 7 who was the number 5 overall first round draft pick.
quote:Originally posted by bballforever:
How about I ask the question this way.
How many parents had their kid get an 8.0 at a PG showcase? Of those kids, how many went on to play college ball?
Is this a trick question?
8 is a potential mid round draft pick, definite d1 prospect according to the PG rating system (posted).
Ok, maybe some didn't go onto play because they got drafted?
Maybe I am missing something, what EXACTLY do you want to know?
eatersbaseball: Who?
TPM asks a good question.
I think the OP wants some sort of assurance that this player is going to play D1 ball.
IMO, folks who get hung up on a PG rating are missing the point. It is a reflection of potential, not probability. Some players live up to their rating, some don't, some exceed it. I think that most players 8-9-10 will put in the work to live up to their potential. But I think we all probably know players who didn't do the work or have the desire and ended up not playing past HS.
I think the OP wants some sort of assurance that this player is going to play D1 ball.
IMO, folks who get hung up on a PG rating are missing the point. It is a reflection of potential, not probability. Some players live up to their rating, some don't, some exceed it. I think that most players 8-9-10 will put in the work to live up to their potential. But I think we all probably know players who didn't do the work or have the desire and ended up not playing past HS.