How many scouts have been at your games??

quote:

Originally stated by Stout:
"To not think that they have a chance to play college baseball just going through the local city league and playing in high school is, in my opinion, pretty much crazy," said Logan Stout, a former pro baseball player and college coach who heads the Dallas Patriots league.

A season with the Fort Worth Cats and being run off after a season as a volunteer assistant at DBU in their pre-D1 days is "a former pro baseball player and college coach" in the absolute loosest sense of the words. LMAO

Well said catcher7.

quote:

Lastly agents do not count. They have NO control over the draft and do not get kids scholarships. They look like scouts and great for your event to have them walking around with one of your scout booklets but don't count. I am a little confused why you even mentioned them.

Newscout- I hope for your sake that Scott Boras doesn't read these boards...

And Why????? Did I say something about agents that is not true? Last time I checked if your agent calls college coaches for your kid then you are in a lot of trouble. Also last I heard no agents are aloud in the draft room with any team while picking. But I would love to hear your reasoning.

"Signability"

I was at the Jupiter event in 2006 and watched Rick Porcello pitching for the South Florida Bandits. Every fastball was in the mid-90's and if I remember correctly, he touched 97 or 98. When I returned home from the tournament, I read that Perfect Game ranked Porcello the #1 pitcher in the country. Mock drafts going into the '07 draft had him anywhere from 1st overall to 5th overall.

Gerritt Cole was in the Jupiter event the following year, and was equally...or more...impressive when I saw him throw. Mid-upper 90's fastball, dominating stuff. Top-ranked, top of the draft status.

Both of these players dropped to the end of the first round due to signability concerns. They were Boras clients and the MLB teams knew that signing them would not be easy. The Tigers, who took Porcello 27th overall, ended up paying him a record Major League deal that was worth more than $7 million. He was in the big leagues a few years later. Cole rejected the Yankees' multi-million dollar offer after being taken 31st overall and went to UCLA, where he is currently a draft eligible junior.

Ask any scouting director or GM if the player's agent has anything to do with that player's signability. They'll all tell you that is one of the most important aspects of the draft.

I sincerely hope the MLB players union and owners implement a structured or "capped" salary/bonus structure pertaining to the draft.

For example, 1st round picks sign for X amount of dollars. 2nd round XX amount of dollars. Etc...
No negotiating. You sign for the fixed amount or you don't sign period.

It all has gotten way out of hand. There are uniformed families and players making decisions strictly on ridiculous financial expectations. Many times those expectations are set by "advisors".

There are good advisors/agents out there too, but it does not change the fact that amateur players are demanding every day big league players salaries who haven't thrown a pitch or had an AB in the big leagues.

How much did Purke turn down from the Rangers? I had heard anywhere from $4-$7 million. That's crazy. Anybody know how his elbow is holding up? Wasn't he having trouble with it a few weeks ago?

quote:

Originally posted by catcher:
We need to get some summer league chatter going for those out of the play offs...kidding

Practices are going well...ready to get to Burkburnett next weekend to get things rolling.

Newscout,

For the record, the Texas Rangers had 17 scouts, that we know of, at the WWBA in Jupiter last October. That includes 15 that registered ahead of time plus Ron Hopkins and Randy Taylor who coached the Rangers team in the event.

The Blue Jays, D'Backs, Tigers, Royals, Indians, Brewers, Twins, Padres, and several others had more scouts sign up.

We have never counted the exact number at any one game because we don't really care that much. Obviously the big matchups draw the majority of the scouts.

BTW, none of those numbers include our PG Scouts. There are over 70 PG staff members at that event. People can call them whatever they want, but several have extensive scouting, playing, and coaching experience and without them there wouldn't be as much information getting out.

It also doesn't include the people from Baseball America, MLB.com, other media, and people from MLB front office. And it doesn't include the many former MLB players and managers and people like Skip Bertman who attend the event.

PGStaff,

As a high school coach, I think your events are great for the kids. I wish there was more of that stuff around when I played HS baseball 25 years ago. I've had many players attend your events and they love going. Keep up the good work!

Jupiter is a great event, and I have been to NM and Farmington is great as well. There are a few other baseball events that draw big scout crowds. (By the way there are a handful of hs baseball events that draw big crowds)

I think that the problem is that this select coach is telling that the only way to the next level is through this system…..

As a hs coach who has been doing this for awhile, I have had players get to the next level by all sorts of roads. I have coached the 1st rounders that had plenty of scouts at their hs games. I have those that went the select route (even have had a couple play for the above mentioned program). But I have had many more get to the next level by not using either one of these routes.

If you want to get to the next level, and you do not have the standout talent (pro/D1) that is required to get the scouts to the hs game you do not have to spend the thousands of $$$ it takes to play select ball. Almost every JUCO and smaller college has open try-outs for little or no money(I got 2 e-mails this morning for college try-outs that are free). Show up….try out…..and if you are good enough they will let you play.

d8,

I agree, you will never hear me say that anything we do is an absolute must. Players have taken many different paths to be successful.

Truth is, we first hear about many top players because of what they are doing in high school baseball.

It's a fact that the summers and fall create the most scouting activity. Spring baseball is where scouts focus on the players they already know about and some that pop up. Most of those who pop up are identified because some other player has drawn the scouting activity.

Most of the top players do play travel or club baseball. They all play high school ball, anyway almost all do. That last HS season is the very most important one for those identified as prospects.

If one (HS or travel) had to go, I would vote to eliminate travel ball. I really think the HS baseball experience can never be replaced.

That said, there is no need to eliminate anything. Both are very important, even if for different purposes.

Travel baseball, showcases, etc. have become a business. There are people in it for the wrong reasons, but most of the people I know who are involved at a higher level, are in it because they love the game and love working with and helping kids. The same reasons that the top high school coaches have.

There are many great things about some of these top travel organizations. Of course “someone” has to pay the bills, but so many kids benefit from it. Every year we see lots of talented kids that can’t afford to play, yet they are traveling and playing because some people recognize their talent and want to help them.

IMO, The best of all worlds is when the HS coach works closely with the summer programs. This actually goes on more than what people might think. When that happens everyone benefits, the high school, the travel program, the scouting community, and most importantly, the players!

PGStaff...I agree 100%

Which organizations offer watches like this as part of the package?

quote:

Originally posted by Wonder Boy:

quote:

Originally stated by Stout:
"To not think that they have a chance to play college baseball just going through the local city league and playing in high school is, in my opinion, pretty much crazy," said Logan Stout, a former pro baseball player and college coach who heads the Dallas Patriots league.

A season with the Fort Worth Cats and being run off after a season as a volunteer assistant at DBU in their pre-D1 days is "a former pro baseball player and college coach" in the absolute loosest sense of the words. LMAO

quote:

Originally posted by Ken Guthrie:


Which organizations offer watches like this as part of the package?

Ohio State! I'm sorry that's football.

On another note: Son's summer team will start tonight at Parish.

If he plays infield make sure he wears a mouth guard or even better would a catcher's mask.

quote:

Originally stated by Stout:
"To not think that they have a chance to play college baseball just going through the local city league and playing in high school is, in my opinion, pretty much crazy," said Logan Stout, a former pro baseball player and college coach who heads the Dallas Patriots league.

Call him crazy! I know a young man that played one summer for Mr. Stout. He left Stout's team because Mr. Stout was claiming and taking credit for him being a very good player. This same young man has not participated in a perfect game event since 2009 and has played "only" high school ball the last two seasons.
The result, he has signed with a highly ranked D1 university and could go very high in the draft.

My point is, if you're good... they will find you.

Caveat Emptor!

http://www.wfaa.com/sports/hig...ports-121944884.html

"It's been brought to our attention the Ch. 8 news piece that aired has created a lot of conversation. Just to clear a few things up: the interview was about an hour long, and only seconds of the interview aired, thus creating some false appearances for the viewing audience.

One such conversation was about High School baseball. Bottom line, High School baseball is very important and the Dallas Patriots and Logan Stout fully support high school coaches. The simple point of conversation based on the interview was about showcases and select sports. To which the reply was about the fact that College coaches have their own teams to coach during the spring, thus they do the bulk of their recruiting during the summers. This is not an opinion, this is a fact. This simple point seems to have come across incorrectly to a small portion of the viewing audience...for that we apologize. We can’t control what people say about us, good or bad, but our passion remains the same; helping kids in life through the vehicle of baseball. Here's a list of our 2011 graduates and the schools they have signed with…have a great day and God Bless!

2011 Graduates:

John Curtiss-Texas

Josh Bell-Texas

Trevor Story-LSU

Braden Strickland-LSU

Kyle Bailey-Clemson

Nick Bullington-Rice University

Ryan McCarthy-Rice University

Kevin Terry-University of Nebraska

Jeff Stovall-University of Nebraska

Greg Milhorn-University of Arkansas

Tyler Provence-University of Oklahoma

Jimmy Landes-Baylor

Sam Roberson-Southeastern Louisiana University

Patrick McLendon-Winthrop University

Matthew Kaskow-Wofford College

Tony Hong-Hill College

Austin Holbrook-Hill College

Nick Petersen-Air Force

Tripp Cecil-Paris Junior College

Cameron Gann-SFA

Joey Kaufman-Richland College

Craig Ramsey-North Central College

Garrett Sumpter-Murray State

Jordan Zangarine-Texarkana


Sincerely,

Dallas Patriots Staff
www.dallaspatriots.com
www.premierbaseballacademy.com

quote:

We can’t control what people say about us, good or bad, but our passion remains the same; helping kids in life through the vehicle of baseball

I only take what people say "LITERALLY" and I and everyone heard what was said.

Also LS and PG said that 428 more scouts were not in the picture shown. "LITERALLY"

So if you "LITERALLY" give me $20 I will give you back $200 once ten more people give me $20. OH sorry did I just start a Pyramid? Sorry!!!!

Thank you for bringing to light what's "LITERALLY" happening...

"When your vision and purpose is on target, most often you become the target" Ed Young, Senior Pastor Fellowship Church

Go drink you "Haterade" we'll keep doing what we do

I'm OUT!

quote:

Also LS and PG said that 428 more scouts were not in the picture shown. "LITERALLY"

I don't recall saying that.

I also don't understand the reference to that picture. Only so many people can fit into the frame. Couldn't we take it for granted that the picture might have missed most of the people. It would take several pictures to get a true feel.

Guess my point is... After looking at the picture in question, I counted 17 carts. We know that well over 300 golf carts were rented out to colleges and scouting departments. Would have been many more but the cart company ran out.

So I could "literally" say somewhere around 300 of of those carts are NOT within the frame of this picture.

I have personally been at games at Jupiter where over 250 scouts were watching a single game. What is not uncommon is for someone to hang around the quad and to shift from one backstop to another as a particular player of interest pitches, or comes up to bat. As a practical matter, once the carts start lining up it's hard to fit more than that into spots with sight lines.

At East Cobb, I don't think I've ever had a game -- at the main complex or at the remotest HS site -- with fewer than 5 scouts in attendance. Usually it's around 25. At the main complex, if a pitcher starts pumping 90 or something, the migration effect can take it over 60. But I'd rather have 5 guys who were following my team, than 60 guys with just passing curiousity. Worry less about quantity and more about quality (depth of their interest).

At high school games, I don't think I've ever seen more than 20. That was at a preseason scrimmage featuring two players who had both been Aflac All Americans the preceding summer.

I can say this, the game in question was a night game with many outstanding prospects. Jose Fernandez was throwing 97 and scouts were saying he could have won in the Big Leagues that night.

FTB Mizuno (Cardinals Scout team) had the following players on there roster. Might not mean much unless you follow the top prospects in the nation. We will hear lots of these names next week.

Javier Baez
Dante Bichette
Jose Fernandez
Tyler Gonzales
Dominic Jose
Deshorn Lake
Francisco Lindor
Tyler Marlette
Henry Owens
Elvin soto
Daniel Vogelbach
and other top players

The Dallas Patriots
Josh Bell
John Curtiss
Trevor Story
and many others

There's some 900 college coaches and scouts watching 4 night games in the same quad. FTB Mizuno had top players from coast to coast on their roster and the Patriots had at least two potential first round types. Hard to ignore that if you are a scout. At least a half dozen or more potential first round picks in one game, plus several other good draft candidates.

I have seen pretty much every highly scouted game at this tournament and this game would have been one of them. The year before the Texas Rangers Scout Team played the Royals Scout Team at the same time slot and that scout attendance was about the same. Maybe this year I'll have someone pick out a high profile game and count the scouts.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Guess my point is... After looking at the picture in question, I counted 17 carts. We know that well over 300 golf carts were rented out to colleges and scouting departments. Would have been many more but the cart company ran out.

So I could "literally" say somewhere around 300 of of those carts are NOT within the frame of this picture.

Well, I'll be impressed if I see half that many at the Sunshine South Showcase this weekend in Houston. I guess there will be at least 1, as I've been known to scout for son's team.

Someone close this thread, it is getting out of hand.

quote:

Originally posted by SWAC:
Someone close this thread, it is getting out of hand.

No it's not.

It's getting just right.

Pretty soon we will be discussing how many hot dogs were sold per scout.

I'm thinking with 300 carts (and there would have been more but the NHRA Cart races were that weekend) that each scout could have consumed 3 dawgs a piece per game. Unless it was the mentioned game. Traffic would certainly limit hot dog consumption per scout.

In fact, how many hot dogs can you count in the picture?

I see 13 but I'm certain there were literally 287 from foul pole to foul pole.

Are you kidding me? Wake up America.

Ken, I counted 14, you missed the one that has fallen to the ground.

quote:

Originally posted by SWAC:
Ken, I counted 14, you missed the one that has fallen to the ground.

Well, if it is "The" game we are talking about, 15 hot dogs counting the coach Flava Flave!

I have gone back and looked at every post in this thread. Including my own posts, which I know are 100% honest! I have a question...

Why was this thread started and within a couple minutes replied to? Was it a personal attack on someone? High School baseball thing? Jupiter scouts? Or just about someone using the word "literally"?

Just curious.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
I have gone back and looked at every post in this thread. Including my own posts, which I know are 100% honest! I have a question...

Why was this thread started and within a couple minutes replied to? Was it a personal attack on someone? High School baseball thing? Jupiter scouts? Or just about someone using the word "literally"?

Just curious.

Is WISH someone would shut down this thread...it is "LITERALLY" ridiculous!!!

quote:

Originally posted by NuffSaid:

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
I have gone back and looked at every post in this thread. Including my own posts, which I know are 100% honest! I have a question...

Why was this thread started and within a couple minutes replied to? Was it a personal attack on someone? High School baseball thing? Jupiter scouts? Or just about someone using the word "literally"?

Just curious.

Is WISH someone would shut down this thread...it is "LITERALLY" ridiculous!!!

I am not a big fan of shutting down discussions and prefer to see them come to the inevitable end they always do.

The OP seems to have come to the simplistic conclusion that 1+1=2 based on the assumed number of scouts at each level of baseball. It does not take into account the many variables that exist.

I have personally been to the Jupiter event and have seen with my own eyes how many scouts were present. Just the number of carts alone would indicate a tremendous number of scouts(more than any other event I have attended).
When you factor in that some colleges and MLB teams have more than one coach/scout there(so as to cover more games played simultaneously), it is easy to see the OP's logic is flawed(no personal offense intended).

Madlo Dad

I 100% believe you had 250 scouts watching one game I have even seen that myself. But NOT 600!!!!!! That is my whole point, it's impossible. PG and LS (AKA Mcfadd) just want admit it. 250 is AWESOME be proud of that. I would do anything and pay anything to put my kid in-front of that many scouts and PG does that for us. And do a good job at it.

But for them to say 600 scouts at one game... I will call you out every time!!! The foul lines would need to be 900ft long each to fit that many golf carts and people. I have an architect working on a rendition of what that would look like. It will be coming soon to the HS web. I think they have a hard time telling the truth and not exaggerating the facts. NO WAY no how 45-50% of every scout in the world was at one game. That is my point and I want Stop until they stop exaggerating to make there programs or event seem bigger then life. Just making a point and sticking up for the hard working, blue collar man just trying to get by and do the right thing everyday.

Sounds like you want LS to give you an apology for exaggeration? I thought you said a few pages back on this subject that you were done with this thread? If you were a hard working blue collar worker, where do you find the time to post 3 or 4 times a day? Most blue collar workers I know are in construction, lawn cutting or manufacturing in some hot and sweaty warehouse where they have limited or no access to the computer. Literally!!!

Newscout,

Now you got me POed!

Not sure why you brought up my name as someone having a hard time telling the truth.

I said I don't know how many scouts/college coaches are at any given game. I only added that 600 at one game is entirely possible, given that we know the total in the park is within reason. That total last year was around 900. There were only 4 games being played on one quad during the game in question. So it is vey possible that at one point or another 600 watched the game. I even think that might be true. Yes 250 is great, we have more than that at our National Showcase. I don't understand why the number 600 is impossible.

Regarding golf carts and hotdogs, I only know the number of golf carts. That is because they (the golf cart company) partners with us, the concession stand doesn't.

When people ask me to describe what that tournament is like, I simply tell them it is very unusual. There are other great events, but this one is unusual because of the scouting activity. Some clubs actually have organizational meetings down there around this event.

I do not lie, ever, when it comes to baseball. Can't afford to and don't need to! This thread was all about trying to discredit someone, anyone with half a brain can figure that out. I know it wasn't meant for us or about us, but it did turn out that it was our event being discussed. So now I'm one of those that have a hard time telling the truth? Telling the truth comes naturally to me. We would not have survived this long, otherwise.

Have your architect put 600 scouts around a field please. BTW, Remember they're not all sitting in golf carts. There are thousands of baseball parks that can handle more than 600 people. I've never seen one 900 foot long.

You really should stop because you're wrong about your information and your motives are wrong. If 30 MLB clubs average 15 scouts a team, that is what happens... How many is that? 450 correct? Remember the Blue Jays alone had well over 30 there. If just 200 college send two people each, how many is that? 400 correct? That isn't counting the Boras scouts, MLBSB, Perfect Game scouts, the media, or anyone else.

I get sick when I hear about someone slamming others while using the old "I'm for the hard working blue collar guy just trying to get by". So then, why is this distinction between 250 and 600 so important to you? Because of those hard working blue collar guys or is it because of something much different? BTW, I consider myself one of those blue collar guys, always have been.

How or why would anyone who was NOT there dispute what happened there. BTW, I've already shown you where your numbers are wrong.

quote:

Division I: 286 participating schools
http://web1.ncaa.org/ssLists/s...sport=MBA&division=1


Division II: 236 participating schools
http://web1.ncaa.org/ssLists/s...sport=MBA&division=2


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

NAIA: 212 participating schools
http://naia.cstv.com/member-se...Plans/BaseballQP.htm

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

NJCAA

Division I: 187 participating schools
http://www.njcaa.org/findcolle...t.cfm?sid=7&gender=m

Pro Scouts: 30 teams x 8 scouts per team = 240

That is a total of 1,161 possible scout in the US.

Later you repeated that...

quote:

OK I am going to take one more shot at this and I am done. Lets just say EVERY Single D1 school in America was there. 100%. That would be 286 scouts. And I think all of us that have been to Jupiter more than 10 times would agree that the Jucos or NJCAA's don't have the money to travel and very few are there at all. Now lets say 50% of the D2 schools in the world also showed up. And Lets also say every scout in America even PR, AK, and HI talked the scouting director in allowing them to go.

Recap:

100% of every D1 baseball program was there = 286
50% of every D2 in America also came to this game = 118
100% of every scout in America was there = 240

Now that is 644 scouts. I am I missing something? Or this is just amazing and it has to be a record. Now if he would have said "About, or Around" but he said "Literally"

You did try to answer when I posted there are about 1,000 full time MLB scouts, by qualifying what you posted above. You know... like each team has 8 scouts. Sorry, not even close!

You've said so much here that it's hard to swallow. I'll be looking for those architect's drawings. BTW, the only reason I've posted on this thread is because the motives were very obvious. This should not be a place to slam others, even if they happen to be competitors. It just doesn't show any class at all!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...youtube_gdata_player

Ok take this picture and multiply it by 60 and you have it.

Please provide us with a list of your 900 scouts that attended surely you have that. It will also help your business to show such a list. And remember PG scouts and agents do not count. I know the MSL here in Dallas each week provide a list of scouts that attend I am sure you can do the same.