How many scouts have been at your games??

What about the Japanesse league scouts?

FW Cats could have showed up too!

OK just did more research. Japan has 11 Pro teams and each of them has 4 Full time scouts. So that is another 44 scouts, assuming they all have passports that would bring the percentage to 50.3% of all the scout in the world showed up at this game.

Don't think Independent teams have scouts and if they did they don't count.

I want a refund from my sons organization ASAP.

Most we had this year was about 30. Mixture of area scouts, cross checkers, scouting directors and even a few General Managers. Theo Epstein was at our first round playoff against Pine Tree. Crick was up to 97 that night. This past Saturday the Phillies Scouting Director told me he hit 98 3 times. Unless he asks for too much, he won't last past the sandwich picks between the 1st and 2nd round. He will get 7 figures to sign. How much exactly depends on the team that drafts him.

Oh yeah? Can't be true because the coach in the News 8 story (Dallas Patriots Logan Stout) said the only way to get seen is "select ball" - no way you will be drafted playing high school baseball!

http://www.wfaa.com/sports/A-w...ports-121944884.html

quote:

"They can come watch all the teams in one weekend, get a breakdown of all the kids that they need to know about, instead of traveling around to all of creation to high school games where they might find one or two good quality college athletes on a high school team. That makes no sense," Stout explained. "They're going to go to the select sports."
Stout recalls a recent tournament in Florida.
"There were literally 600 college coaches and pro scouts at just one game. Six-hundred of them," he said. "Where else can you find that?"

lit·er·al·ly   
[lit-er-uh-lee] Show IPA
–adverb
1.
in the literal or strict sense: What does the word mean literally?
2.
in a literal manner; word for word: to translate literally.
3.
actually; without exaggeration or inaccuracy: The city was literally destroyed.

...hmmm

"Stout says scouts don't even go to high school games anymore."

Are you kidding me?

30-40 per game last year. 2-4 per game this year. (Of course there could have been 20 hiding in the bushes)

quote:

Stout recalls a recent tournament in Florida.

Maybe the guy was talking about Jupiter.

Consider the source...

Wake up America.

Stop buying fools gold.

You guys are letting that green eyed monster show through again...

As for the comment about 600 college and pro scouts at one game, I was there and can tell you there were a ton...600 who knows, may have been 500 or 700 but it was for real. The game was a quaterfinal match up in Jupiter, FL last October between the Dallas Patriots 17U team and FTB Mizuno (#2 ranked team in the country by Perfect Game). The Patriots had/have 17 Division 1 signees with Texas signee John Curtiss on the mound, while FTB Mizuno had the #4 overall HS prospect (Jose Fernandez - RHP throwing 95-97 on the mound and #3 overall HS prospect Francisco Lindor at SS). Each D1 college is allowed 2 scouts and most had that, and the pro guys were unlimited. Since there were 10 fields to cover I heard reports of several pro organizations with over 20 scout in attendance. The golf cart rental business really takes off that week as each guy is running around in a golf cart with a placard on the front with the name of their college or pro team. Once you get out of pool play and advance toward the final 8, 4, etc...the games are all played in the same area (4 fields surrounding a press tower/concession area) and the scouts all get condensed. In total we heard there were 900 scouts at this event...perhaps PG can confirm. I know he comes onto the Texas site every now and then.

If you've ever been to East Cobb, GA or Jupiter, FL it's hard to argue about the exposure the kids get in select ball vs high school ball. Heck, most of the college guys are playing so they can't come out to watch high school games. You get the pro scouts occasionally if you've got somebody on your team on their radar. Don't get me wrong, I love HS ball, but I can attest my son signed his D1 NLI to play baseball because of his exposure and play in the summer.

quote:

If you've ever been to East Cobb, GA or Jupiter, FL it's hard to argue about the exposure the kids get in select ball vs high school ball. Heck, most of the college guys are playing so they can't come out to watch high school games. You get the pro scouts occasionally if you've got somebody on your team on their radar. Don't get me wrong, I love HS ball, but I can attest my son signed his D1 NLI to play baseball because of his exposure and play in the summer.

Yep, been there done that (East Cobb & Jupiter) and my son is playing 16U this summer. We did get a few pro scouts at my son's high school team this year, but they were mainly looking at our Senior pitcher who has signed with a D1 school.

Please list the select teams of the following players...

Mickey Mantle
Nolan Ryan
Joe Dimaggio
Willie Mays

My point is if you are great, they will find you and they always have.

Jupiter is great, so is East Cobb. If Gut says Farmington is greatest, I believe him. Tuesday and Friday nights are great too. Playing in the Regional Finals in Midland was a blast! Both things are great and both serve a purpose. Just understand, when you "BASH" the high school game, there will be many that will come to its defense. Me included.

quote:

Originally posted by doubleday:
You guys are letting that green eyed monster show through again...

I was there also. They were several rows deep and lined the up and down both foul lines. Here is my attempt at uploading a picture. Not sure how many there were, but there were alot.

Gut- When buying 'fools gold'...DON'T LOOK AT THE WATCH!

Our SS had around 15-25 at most games in early tournaments last season. Scouts work throughout the year. Sure Summer time is great for scouting, but I coached a Summer team with 5 kids in the first 2 rounds including 2 who are in the bigs right now. There were no more or less at those games. Comparing Select baseball and High School baseball is stupid. One is money and ego driven. The other is based upon playing along with peers from your area. The competition is different and for a differnet purpose and goal.

quote:

Originally posted by UpperDeck:

quote:

Originally posted by doubleday:
You guys are letting that green eyed monster show through again...

I was there also. They were several rows deep and lined the up and down both foul lines. Here is my attempt at uploading a picture. Not sure how many there were, but there were alot.

Not 600. Still not sure if someone knows what literally means.

And that scouts only come to these "Premier Tournaments"...you have to give him credit for that plug.

Are you kidding me doubleday??? I have been to Jupiter 14 times. It is a great event, but they don't have 600 scouts there. Again that is 50% of ever scout in the World. Maybe close if you count the staffer scout that they call scouts. The picture posted I counted 72 people in the picture (including parents) you need to find another 428 people.

Bottom line is why don't you just say we had 100 scouts at one game that is still GREAT...

The NY Times would count this picture as 600,000 scouts.

quote:

Originally posted by TurnTwo1:
Consider the source...

exactly

I pulled this directly from www.perfectgame.org

"2010 WWBA World Championship Event
Description: The 2010 WWBA World Championship consists of 85 of the elite travel/scout teams from across the United States, Canada, Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic. This tournament has become the top scouting attraction in all of amateur baseball. Almost every top prospect in the country attends each year, along with 700 or more MLB scouts and college coaches."

The picture shown doesn't do justice to the number of scouts there that night. It only shows a view from directly behind home plate. That crowd stretched all the way down to the left and right field foul poles.

Great field shots of Naaman Forest HS ballfield! Love the park, but could this WFAA feature potentially get them a bathroom?

quote:

Originally posted by TurnTwo1:
Consider the source...

Having been around that org for a couple years, AMEN! Consider the source. "Anyone for snake oil?"

OK I am going to take one more shot at this and I am done. Lets just say EVERY Single D1 school in America was there. 100%. That would be 286 scouts. And I think all of us that have been to Jupiter more than 10 times would agree that the Jucos or NJCAA's don't have the money to travel and very few are there at all. Now lets say 50% of the D2 schools in the world also showed up. And Lets also say every scout in America even PR, AK, and HI talked the scouting director in allowing them to go.

Recap:

100% of every D1 baseball program was there = 286
50% of every D2 in America also came to this game = 118
100% of every scout in America was there = 240

Now that is 644 scouts. I am I missing something? Or this is just amazing and it has to be a record. Now if he would have said "About, or Around" but he said "Literally"

This has been fun Peace out..

quote:

Originally posted by Newscout:
OK I am going to take one more shot at this and I am done. Lets just say EVERY Single D1 school in America was there. 100%. That would be 286 scouts. And I think all of us that have been to Jupiter more than 10 times would agree that the Jucos or NJCAA's don't have the money to travel and very few are there at all. Now lets say 50% of the D2 schools in the world also showed up. And Lets also say every scout in America even PR, AK, and HI talked the scouting director in allowing them to go.

Recap:

100% of every D1 baseball program was there = 286
50% of every D2 in America also came to this game = 118
100% of every scout in America was there = 240

Now that is 644 scouts. I am I missing something? Or this is just amazing and it has to be a record. Now if he would have said "About, or Around" but he said "Literally"

This has been fun Peace out..

Good insight, and again consider the source of this information. We're all aware how that works

I saw 5....I mean 50 scouts at the CHHS vs Keller matchup! See how it works when you stretch it a little, makes the story more interesting, wouldn't you say!

If I go watch a future opponent, then I am scouting...does this make me a scout?

quote:

Originally posted by Newscout:
OK I am going to take one more shot at this and I am done. Lets just say EVERY Single D1 school in America was there. 100%. That would be 286 scouts. And I think all of us that have been to Jupiter more than 10 times would agree that the Jucos or NJCAA's don't have the money to travel and very few are there at all. Now lets say 50% of the D2 schools in the world also showed up. And Lets also say every scout in America even PR, AK, and HI talked the scouting director in allowing them to go.

Recap:

100% of every D1 baseball program was there = 286
50% of every D2 in America also came to this game = 118
100% of every scout in America was there = 240

Now that is 644 scouts. I am I missing something? Or this is just amazing and it has to be a record. Now if he would have said "About, or Around" but he said "Literally"

This has been fun Peace out..

There are 300 D1 schools playing college baseball, add in D2s, D3s, Jucos and 10-20 per MLB team and the number easily grows to 1,000+.

You guys are just trying to discredit this individual for some reason, and it comes across as pure jealousy. I guess there are those that try to find what's right in something, and others who try to find what's wrong with it. It takes all to make the world go 'round and everyone is entitled to their opinion...I was just trying to let you know the statement that originally got this whole thing going (600 scouts at a game) was not an exageration.

Just so I'm clear, I take issue with the statement of scouts don't go to high school baseball games and the ONLY way to get noticed is in the summer. Two of my players are getting area code invites because of the scouts being there all spring to watch our pitcher. I've told my players for years that they need to catch on with a good organization in the summer and fall. The reason...it's the best time for college coaches to see you. Have we had college coaches at our games this spring, yes. But the summer and fall are the best times to be seen by college coaches. I think that is something 90% of us would agree with.

I can't resist.

We had less than 5 scouts at most Feb. HS tournament games involving teams with a player or two each who might get a look. Most were juco or just MLB part timers.

In all likelihood most of the "prospects" were seen at Jupiter, Farmington, etc.... and this was a cross check.

These guys are not Mickey Mantle, Henry Aaron, Willie Mays, etc.... They just want to compete at the next level and have a better chance to be seen if they play in front of more folks in the summers.

If you throw 95+ (or 87+ and lefty) you will get a look no matter where you are, even Big Lake!

Is it better to be in the summer showcases with more scouts? YES

Do you have to? No, not if you are Clayton Kershaw

Leave it please and if you love HS baseball so much give us some insight into the local teams in your area and how you think they will do this weekend and what kids are gamers and love to play and how much fun it is to watch them.

Most of them will be done after their senior year and have those memories we all do now.

This thread really touched a nerve. I do believe there are a lot of good "select ball" coaches that are doing what they are doing to help kids.

However, there are several very good "business men" running these organizations...like the one on Channel 8. They are successful chasing and making dollars by exploiting kids and parents that are desperately trying to get their kids to the next level.... we all know that! The way to make money is charge extreme prices because the perception in America is if it costs alot it must be better. If a hitting instructor charges 30 dollars and one charges 75 then the one charging 75 dollars must be better.

Same logic with High School coaches in parents minds. HS coaches must not be as good because they don't make money off of their profession.

Some of these organizations should be careful when tearing down H.S. Baseball because HS coaches still have leverage and could tell their players they don't want them playing for certain people... and the kids would do it! But, HS coaches won't do that because most of them have high standards and ethics.

Select coaches should thank UIL guidelines/restrictions for their success because I guarantee if H.S. coaches were allowed to coach their kids in the summer that it would change the landscape of select baseball as we know it.

quote:

Originally posted by 4loveofgame:

The way to make money is charge extreme prices because the perception in America is if it costs alot it must be better. If a hitting instructor charges 30 dollars and one charges 75 then the one charging 75 dollars must be better.

The guy charging 30 dollars is a poor businessman.

First of all, I love high school baseball. We have a crew of guys running around the country scouting high school games. They are on the road right now. If there is a well known prospect the game will get scouted heavily. If there are no well known prospects it’s not likely there will be any scouts in attendance. That doesn’t make HS baseball any less important. The game is not about how many scouts are in the stands.

Regarding Jupiter WWBA in October. There is no question that it has the highest number of scouts, college coaches and agents of any baseball event in the world. Most every scouting director, crosschecker, area scouts, and nearly every major college will have two coaches there. They would have more but two is the NCAA rule. Many of the top Jucos are also there. The MLBSB is also there. And there are well over 100 agents, from Boras group on down. Most MLB clubs will send 14-15 or more scouts, some send 20 or more. We know because they register ahead of time and place orders for golf carts and scout packets. We run out of golf carts every year and many have to walk between fields.

In the interest of accuracy; 100% of all MLB scouts is not 240 scouts. Actually there are roughly 1,000 fulltime MLB scouts. For convenience let’s use the Texas Rangers as an example. In addition to the Scouting Director and assistant and 3 crosscheckers, they have 8 pro scouts, 18 area supervisors, plus some international guys. So the Rangers have over 30 fulltime scouts and that doesn't count the part time guys. The Rangers even put a scout team in the tournament. Some clubs have more scouts than the Rangers. The Blue Jays sent 36 scouts to Jupiter last year which was a record amount for one club.

I’m not sure how many are at any one game, but if a game is played at night it is very likely 600 or more easily could be watching that game. There are only 4 games being played at that time and there are some 900 scouts and recruiters at the event. When all the fields are being used, you might have a game with a dozen or two dozen scouts while another game could have 300 or more. I remember back when Scott Kazmir pitched it was during the day with all fields being used, but there were around 400 scouts at that game he was pitching in.

The breakdown goes kind of like this, around 450 MLB scouts and 450+ college coaches plus over 100 agents. You would have to be there to really get the picture. It is very unusual! Those that have been there know. I can see why it would be hard to understand if a person had not been there.

That said, why compare it to high school baseball? These two things serve completely different purposes. One is a strict scouting event and the other is the greatest baseball of all IMO. The number of scouts isn’t what makes a game important. I love it when our guy is the only scout at the game and nobody knows who he is.

BTW, for those who want to jump on this as some kind of money making promotion, please don’t go there. There is absolutely no reason to promote this event in October. There are well over 200 teams that we have to turn away every year. That has caused many headaches and lost friendships that are not so good for business.

Not trying to argue anything, but this is one subject I happen to know something about.

Newscout,

I'm confused by some of your statements. First you claim that each MLB club has 8 fulltime scouts. Obviously that is completely wrong. (not even close)

Then you claim that you've been to Jupiter 14 times. While I can't argue that point, you sure weren't at the event in question 14 times. it has only been held in Jupiter 11 times.

Then you claim "they don't have 600 scouts", yet everyone who really has been there knows better.

Then you question a picture and say you counted 72 people including parents. Anyone who was there knows there were scouts lined up from foul pole to foul pole 2 deep. There really is no room for parents to see the game when it gets like this. They pretty much have to sit in the stands.

Guess you weren't there last year or you wouldn't be questioning this. Of those 14 times you've been there, were any of them actually at this event? There are a lot of other events held at Jupiter.

Why do some people need to claim so and so is not telling the truth. It is what it is and if someone was not there, I don't understand the need to accuse someone of lying. It just makes you sound foolish to those that actually were there.

Ask Randy Taylor or Ron Hopkins what it's like there.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by PGStaff:

There are well over 200 teams that we have to turn away every year. That has caused many headaches and lost friendships that are not so good for business.

QUOTE]

You know PG, I never thought about that aspect. I can only IMAGINE the conversations and meetings you have had to endure with someone/some team wanting/begging to let them come play. I also know it had to be absolutely agonizing for you to turn each and every one away over the years. Gosh, I don't envy you for this at all. I'm not sure I could have done it to be honest.

On another note, I'd sure like to be a golf cart mechanic that week in Jupiter! Can you say Gold Mine?! lol

YGD

Mr. PG,

First off this was not about Perfect Game. I am a big fan and Jupiter is a GREAT EVENT, without a doubt.

Here comes the butttt.. If you want to call me out on my math. I gave credit to 8 scouts per MLB team attending the "GAME". Key word the Game not the event. If you think for one second that I believe that 240 pro "paid" scouts (not PG paid, MLB paid) was watching one game I have some ocean front property in AZ you can buy.

Also I don't have to ask Randy about your event but if you would like I bet I can name 20 Texas scouts that wasn't there. I know for a fact most area guys do not attend. Only Fl area guys. So out of your 450 scouts wouldn't you say my math of 240 is generous?

Now to answer your question about 72 people in the picture is simply stating a fact. You count and see what you come up with. And then tell me that another 528 scouts where down the foul lines? That's the picture that should have been taken.

Lastly agents do not count. They have NO control over the draft and do not get kids scholarships. They look like scouts and great for your event to have them walking around with one of your scout booklets but don't count. I am a little confused why you even mentioned them.

quote:

Originally posted by Newscout:
OK I am going to take one more shot at this and I am done.

I thought you were done???

I was asked a question.

We need to get some summer league chatter going for those out of the play offs...kidding

quote:

Originally stated by Stout:
"To not think that they have a chance to play college baseball just going through the local city league and playing in high school is, in my opinion, pretty much crazy," said Logan Stout, a former pro baseball player and college coach who heads the Dallas Patriots league.

A season with the Fort Worth Cats and being run off after a season as a volunteer assistant at DBU in their pre-D1 days is "a former pro baseball player and college coach" in the absolute loosest sense of the words. LMAO

Well said catcher7.

quote:

Lastly agents do not count. They have NO control over the draft and do not get kids scholarships. They look like scouts and great for your event to have them walking around with one of your scout booklets but don't count. I am a little confused why you even mentioned them.

Newscout- I hope for your sake that Scott Boras doesn't read these boards...

And Why????? Did I say something about agents that is not true? Last time I checked if your agent calls college coaches for your kid then you are in a lot of trouble. Also last I heard no agents are aloud in the draft room with any team while picking. But I would love to hear your reasoning.

"Signability"

I was at the Jupiter event in 2006 and watched Rick Porcello pitching for the South Florida Bandits. Every fastball was in the mid-90's and if I remember correctly, he touched 97 or 98. When I returned home from the tournament, I read that Perfect Game ranked Porcello the #1 pitcher in the country. Mock drafts going into the '07 draft had him anywhere from 1st overall to 5th overall.

Gerritt Cole was in the Jupiter event the following year, and was equally...or more...impressive when I saw him throw. Mid-upper 90's fastball, dominating stuff. Top-ranked, top of the draft status.

Both of these players dropped to the end of the first round due to signability concerns. They were Boras clients and the MLB teams knew that signing them would not be easy. The Tigers, who took Porcello 27th overall, ended up paying him a record Major League deal that was worth more than $7 million. He was in the big leagues a few years later. Cole rejected the Yankees' multi-million dollar offer after being taken 31st overall and went to UCLA, where he is currently a draft eligible junior.

Ask any scouting director or GM if the player's agent has anything to do with that player's signability. They'll all tell you that is one of the most important aspects of the draft.

I sincerely hope the MLB players union and owners implement a structured or "capped" salary/bonus structure pertaining to the draft.

For example, 1st round picks sign for X amount of dollars. 2nd round XX amount of dollars. Etc...
No negotiating. You sign for the fixed amount or you don't sign period.

It all has gotten way out of hand. There are uniformed families and players making decisions strictly on ridiculous financial expectations. Many times those expectations are set by "advisors".

There are good advisors/agents out there too, but it does not change the fact that amateur players are demanding every day big league players salaries who haven't thrown a pitch or had an AB in the big leagues.

How much did Purke turn down from the Rangers? I had heard anywhere from $4-$7 million. That's crazy. Anybody know how his elbow is holding up? Wasn't he having trouble with it a few weeks ago?

quote:

Originally posted by catcher:
We need to get some summer league chatter going for those out of the play offs...kidding

Practices are going well...ready to get to Burkburnett next weekend to get things rolling.

Newscout,

For the record, the Texas Rangers had 17 scouts, that we know of, at the WWBA in Jupiter last October. That includes 15 that registered ahead of time plus Ron Hopkins and Randy Taylor who coached the Rangers team in the event.

The Blue Jays, D'Backs, Tigers, Royals, Indians, Brewers, Twins, Padres, and several others had more scouts sign up.

We have never counted the exact number at any one game because we don't really care that much. Obviously the big matchups draw the majority of the scouts.

BTW, none of those numbers include our PG Scouts. There are over 70 PG staff members at that event. People can call them whatever they want, but several have extensive scouting, playing, and coaching experience and without them there wouldn't be as much information getting out.

It also doesn't include the people from Baseball America, MLB.com, other media, and people from MLB front office. And it doesn't include the many former MLB players and managers and people like Skip Bertman who attend the event.

PGStaff,

As a high school coach, I think your events are great for the kids. I wish there was more of that stuff around when I played HS baseball 25 years ago. I've had many players attend your events and they love going. Keep up the good work!

Jupiter is a great event, and I have been to NM and Farmington is great as well. There are a few other baseball events that draw big scout crowds. (By the way there are a handful of hs baseball events that draw big crowds)

I think that the problem is that this select coach is telling that the only way to the next level is through this system…..

As a hs coach who has been doing this for awhile, I have had players get to the next level by all sorts of roads. I have coached the 1st rounders that had plenty of scouts at their hs games. I have those that went the select route (even have had a couple play for the above mentioned program). But I have had many more get to the next level by not using either one of these routes.

If you want to get to the next level, and you do not have the standout talent (pro/D1) that is required to get the scouts to the hs game you do not have to spend the thousands of $$$ it takes to play select ball. Almost every JUCO and smaller college has open try-outs for little or no money(I got 2 e-mails this morning for college try-outs that are free). Show up….try out…..and if you are good enough they will let you play.

d8,

I agree, you will never hear me say that anything we do is an absolute must. Players have taken many different paths to be successful.

Truth is, we first hear about many top players because of what they are doing in high school baseball.

It's a fact that the summers and fall create the most scouting activity. Spring baseball is where scouts focus on the players they already know about and some that pop up. Most of those who pop up are identified because some other player has drawn the scouting activity.

Most of the top players do play travel or club baseball. They all play high school ball, anyway almost all do. That last HS season is the very most important one for those identified as prospects.

If one (HS or travel) had to go, I would vote to eliminate travel ball. I really think the HS baseball experience can never be replaced.

That said, there is no need to eliminate anything. Both are very important, even if for different purposes.

Travel baseball, showcases, etc. have become a business. There are people in it for the wrong reasons, but most of the people I know who are involved at a higher level, are in it because they love the game and love working with and helping kids. The same reasons that the top high school coaches have.

There are many great things about some of these top travel organizations. Of course “someone” has to pay the bills, but so many kids benefit from it. Every year we see lots of talented kids that can’t afford to play, yet they are traveling and playing because some people recognize their talent and want to help them.

IMO, The best of all worlds is when the HS coach works closely with the summer programs. This actually goes on more than what people might think. When that happens everyone benefits, the high school, the travel program, the scouting community, and most importantly, the players!

PGStaff...I agree 100%

Which organizations offer watches like this as part of the package?

quote:

Originally posted by Wonder Boy:

quote:

Originally stated by Stout:
"To not think that they have a chance to play college baseball just going through the local city league and playing in high school is, in my opinion, pretty much crazy," said Logan Stout, a former pro baseball player and college coach who heads the Dallas Patriots league.

A season with the Fort Worth Cats and being run off after a season as a volunteer assistant at DBU in their pre-D1 days is "a former pro baseball player and college coach" in the absolute loosest sense of the words. LMAO

quote:

Originally posted by Ken Guthrie:


Which organizations offer watches like this as part of the package?

Ohio State! I'm sorry that's football.

On another note: Son's summer team will start tonight at Parish.

If he plays infield make sure he wears a mouth guard or even better would a catcher's mask.

quote:

Originally stated by Stout:
"To not think that they have a chance to play college baseball just going through the local city league and playing in high school is, in my opinion, pretty much crazy," said Logan Stout, a former pro baseball player and college coach who heads the Dallas Patriots league.

Call him crazy! I know a young man that played one summer for Mr. Stout. He left Stout's team because Mr. Stout was claiming and taking credit for him being a very good player. This same young man has not participated in a perfect game event since 2009 and has played "only" high school ball the last two seasons.
The result, he has signed with a highly ranked D1 university and could go very high in the draft.

My point is, if you're good... they will find you.

Caveat Emptor!

http://www.wfaa.com/sports/hig...ports-121944884.html

"It's been brought to our attention the Ch. 8 news piece that aired has created a lot of conversation. Just to clear a few things up: the interview was about an hour long, and only seconds of the interview aired, thus creating some false appearances for the viewing audience.

One such conversation was about High School baseball. Bottom line, High School baseball is very important and the Dallas Patriots and Logan Stout fully support high school coaches. The simple point of conversation based on the interview was about showcases and select sports. To which the reply was about the fact that College coaches have their own teams to coach during the spring, thus they do the bulk of their recruiting during the summers. This is not an opinion, this is a fact. This simple point seems to have come across incorrectly to a small portion of the viewing audience...for that we apologize. We can’t control what people say about us, good or bad, but our passion remains the same; helping kids in life through the vehicle of baseball. Here's a list of our 2011 graduates and the schools they have signed with…have a great day and God Bless!

2011 Graduates:

John Curtiss-Texas

Josh Bell-Texas

Trevor Story-LSU

Braden Strickland-LSU

Kyle Bailey-Clemson

Nick Bullington-Rice University

Ryan McCarthy-Rice University

Kevin Terry-University of Nebraska

Jeff Stovall-University of Nebraska

Greg Milhorn-University of Arkansas

Tyler Provence-University of Oklahoma

Jimmy Landes-Baylor

Sam Roberson-Southeastern Louisiana University

Patrick McLendon-Winthrop University

Matthew Kaskow-Wofford College

Tony Hong-Hill College

Austin Holbrook-Hill College

Nick Petersen-Air Force

Tripp Cecil-Paris Junior College

Cameron Gann-SFA

Joey Kaufman-Richland College

Craig Ramsey-North Central College

Garrett Sumpter-Murray State

Jordan Zangarine-Texarkana


Sincerely,

Dallas Patriots Staff
www.dallaspatriots.com
www.premierbaseballacademy.com

quote:

We can’t control what people say about us, good or bad, but our passion remains the same; helping kids in life through the vehicle of baseball

I only take what people say "LITERALLY" and I and everyone heard what was said.

Also LS and PG said that 428 more scouts were not in the picture shown. "LITERALLY"

So if you "LITERALLY" give me $20 I will give you back $200 once ten more people give me $20. OH sorry did I just start a Pyramid? Sorry!!!!

Thank you for bringing to light what's "LITERALLY" happening...

"When your vision and purpose is on target, most often you become the target" Ed Young, Senior Pastor Fellowship Church

Go drink you "Haterade" we'll keep doing what we do

I'm OUT!

quote:

Also LS and PG said that 428 more scouts were not in the picture shown. "LITERALLY"

I don't recall saying that.

I also don't understand the reference to that picture. Only so many people can fit into the frame. Couldn't we take it for granted that the picture might have missed most of the people. It would take several pictures to get a true feel.

Guess my point is... After looking at the picture in question, I counted 17 carts. We know that well over 300 golf carts were rented out to colleges and scouting departments. Would have been many more but the cart company ran out.

So I could "literally" say somewhere around 300 of of those carts are NOT within the frame of this picture.

I have personally been at games at Jupiter where over 250 scouts were watching a single game. What is not uncommon is for someone to hang around the quad and to shift from one backstop to another as a particular player of interest pitches, or comes up to bat. As a practical matter, once the carts start lining up it's hard to fit more than that into spots with sight lines.

At East Cobb, I don't think I've ever had a game -- at the main complex or at the remotest HS site -- with fewer than 5 scouts in attendance. Usually it's around 25. At the main complex, if a pitcher starts pumping 90 or something, the migration effect can take it over 60. But I'd rather have 5 guys who were following my team, than 60 guys with just passing curiousity. Worry less about quantity and more about quality (depth of their interest).

At high school games, I don't think I've ever seen more than 20. That was at a preseason scrimmage featuring two players who had both been Aflac All Americans the preceding summer.

I can say this, the game in question was a night game with many outstanding prospects. Jose Fernandez was throwing 97 and scouts were saying he could have won in the Big Leagues that night.

FTB Mizuno (Cardinals Scout team) had the following players on there roster. Might not mean much unless you follow the top prospects in the nation. We will hear lots of these names next week.

Javier Baez
Dante Bichette
Jose Fernandez
Tyler Gonzales
Dominic Jose
Deshorn Lake
Francisco Lindor
Tyler Marlette
Henry Owens
Elvin soto
Daniel Vogelbach
and other top players

The Dallas Patriots
Josh Bell
John Curtiss
Trevor Story
and many others

There's some 900 college coaches and scouts watching 4 night games in the same quad. FTB Mizuno had top players from coast to coast on their roster and the Patriots had at least two potential first round types. Hard to ignore that if you are a scout. At least a half dozen or more potential first round picks in one game, plus several other good draft candidates.

I have seen pretty much every highly scouted game at this tournament and this game would have been one of them. The year before the Texas Rangers Scout Team played the Royals Scout Team at the same time slot and that scout attendance was about the same. Maybe this year I'll have someone pick out a high profile game and count the scouts.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Guess my point is... After looking at the picture in question, I counted 17 carts. We know that well over 300 golf carts were rented out to colleges and scouting departments. Would have been many more but the cart company ran out.

So I could "literally" say somewhere around 300 of of those carts are NOT within the frame of this picture.

Well, I'll be impressed if I see half that many at the Sunshine South Showcase this weekend in Houston. I guess there will be at least 1, as I've been known to scout for son's team.

Someone close this thread, it is getting out of hand.

quote:

Originally posted by SWAC:
Someone close this thread, it is getting out of hand.

No it's not.

It's getting just right.

Pretty soon we will be discussing how many hot dogs were sold per scout.

I'm thinking with 300 carts (and there would have been more but the NHRA Cart races were that weekend) that each scout could have consumed 3 dawgs a piece per game. Unless it was the mentioned game. Traffic would certainly limit hot dog consumption per scout.

In fact, how many hot dogs can you count in the picture?

I see 13 but I'm certain there were literally 287 from foul pole to foul pole.

Are you kidding me? Wake up America.

Ken, I counted 14, you missed the one that has fallen to the ground.

quote:

Originally posted by SWAC:
Ken, I counted 14, you missed the one that has fallen to the ground.

Well, if it is "The" game we are talking about, 15 hot dogs counting the coach Flava Flave!

I have gone back and looked at every post in this thread. Including my own posts, which I know are 100% honest! I have a question...

Why was this thread started and within a couple minutes replied to? Was it a personal attack on someone? High School baseball thing? Jupiter scouts? Or just about someone using the word "literally"?

Just curious.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
I have gone back and looked at every post in this thread. Including my own posts, which I know are 100% honest! I have a question...

Why was this thread started and within a couple minutes replied to? Was it a personal attack on someone? High School baseball thing? Jupiter scouts? Or just about someone using the word "literally"?

Just curious.

Is WISH someone would shut down this thread...it is "LITERALLY" ridiculous!!!

quote:

Originally posted by NuffSaid:

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
I have gone back and looked at every post in this thread. Including my own posts, which I know are 100% honest! I have a question...

Why was this thread started and within a couple minutes replied to? Was it a personal attack on someone? High School baseball thing? Jupiter scouts? Or just about someone using the word "literally"?

Just curious.

Is WISH someone would shut down this thread...it is "LITERALLY" ridiculous!!!

I am not a big fan of shutting down discussions and prefer to see them come to the inevitable end they always do.

The OP seems to have come to the simplistic conclusion that 1+1=2 based on the assumed number of scouts at each level of baseball. It does not take into account the many variables that exist.

I have personally been to the Jupiter event and have seen with my own eyes how many scouts were present. Just the number of carts alone would indicate a tremendous number of scouts(more than any other event I have attended).
When you factor in that some colleges and MLB teams have more than one coach/scout there(so as to cover more games played simultaneously), it is easy to see the OP's logic is flawed(no personal offense intended).

Madlo Dad

I 100% believe you had 250 scouts watching one game I have even seen that myself. But NOT 600!!!!!! That is my whole point, it's impossible. PG and LS (AKA Mcfadd) just want admit it. 250 is AWESOME be proud of that. I would do anything and pay anything to put my kid in-front of that many scouts and PG does that for us. And do a good job at it.

But for them to say 600 scouts at one game... I will call you out every time!!! The foul lines would need to be 900ft long each to fit that many golf carts and people. I have an architect working on a rendition of what that would look like. It will be coming soon to the HS web. I think they have a hard time telling the truth and not exaggerating the facts. NO WAY no how 45-50% of every scout in the world was at one game. That is my point and I want Stop until they stop exaggerating to make there programs or event seem bigger then life. Just making a point and sticking up for the hard working, blue collar man just trying to get by and do the right thing everyday.

Sounds like you want LS to give you an apology for exaggeration? I thought you said a few pages back on this subject that you were done with this thread? If you were a hard working blue collar worker, where do you find the time to post 3 or 4 times a day? Most blue collar workers I know are in construction, lawn cutting or manufacturing in some hot and sweaty warehouse where they have limited or no access to the computer. Literally!!!

Newscout,

Now you got me POed!

Not sure why you brought up my name as someone having a hard time telling the truth.

I said I don't know how many scouts/college coaches are at any given game. I only added that 600 at one game is entirely possible, given that we know the total in the park is within reason. That total last year was around 900. There were only 4 games being played on one quad during the game in question. So it is vey possible that at one point or another 600 watched the game. I even think that might be true. Yes 250 is great, we have more than that at our National Showcase. I don't understand why the number 600 is impossible.

Regarding golf carts and hotdogs, I only know the number of golf carts. That is because they (the golf cart company) partners with us, the concession stand doesn't.

When people ask me to describe what that tournament is like, I simply tell them it is very unusual. There are other great events, but this one is unusual because of the scouting activity. Some clubs actually have organizational meetings down there around this event.

I do not lie, ever, when it comes to baseball. Can't afford to and don't need to! This thread was all about trying to discredit someone, anyone with half a brain can figure that out. I know it wasn't meant for us or about us, but it did turn out that it was our event being discussed. So now I'm one of those that have a hard time telling the truth? Telling the truth comes naturally to me. We would not have survived this long, otherwise.

Have your architect put 600 scouts around a field please. BTW, Remember they're not all sitting in golf carts. There are thousands of baseball parks that can handle more than 600 people. I've never seen one 900 foot long.

You really should stop because you're wrong about your information and your motives are wrong. If 30 MLB clubs average 15 scouts a team, that is what happens... How many is that? 450 correct? Remember the Blue Jays alone had well over 30 there. If just 200 college send two people each, how many is that? 400 correct? That isn't counting the Boras scouts, MLBSB, Perfect Game scouts, the media, or anyone else.

I get sick when I hear about someone slamming others while using the old "I'm for the hard working blue collar guy just trying to get by". So then, why is this distinction between 250 and 600 so important to you? Because of those hard working blue collar guys or is it because of something much different? BTW, I consider myself one of those blue collar guys, always have been.

How or why would anyone who was NOT there dispute what happened there. BTW, I've already shown you where your numbers are wrong.

quote:

Division I: 286 participating schools
http://web1.ncaa.org/ssLists/s...sport=MBA&division=1


Division II: 236 participating schools
http://web1.ncaa.org/ssLists/s...sport=MBA&division=2


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

NAIA: 212 participating schools
http://naia.cstv.com/member-se...Plans/BaseballQP.htm

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

NJCAA

Division I: 187 participating schools
http://www.njcaa.org/findcolle...t.cfm?sid=7&gender=m

Pro Scouts: 30 teams x 8 scouts per team = 240

That is a total of 1,161 possible scout in the US.

Later you repeated that...

quote:

OK I am going to take one more shot at this and I am done. Lets just say EVERY Single D1 school in America was there. 100%. That would be 286 scouts. And I think all of us that have been to Jupiter more than 10 times would agree that the Jucos or NJCAA's don't have the money to travel and very few are there at all. Now lets say 50% of the D2 schools in the world also showed up. And Lets also say every scout in America even PR, AK, and HI talked the scouting director in allowing them to go.

Recap:

100% of every D1 baseball program was there = 286
50% of every D2 in America also came to this game = 118
100% of every scout in America was there = 240

Now that is 644 scouts. I am I missing something? Or this is just amazing and it has to be a record. Now if he would have said "About, or Around" but he said "Literally"

You did try to answer when I posted there are about 1,000 full time MLB scouts, by qualifying what you posted above. You know... like each team has 8 scouts. Sorry, not even close!

You've said so much here that it's hard to swallow. I'll be looking for those architect's drawings. BTW, the only reason I've posted on this thread is because the motives were very obvious. This should not be a place to slam others, even if they happen to be competitors. It just doesn't show any class at all!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...youtube_gdata_player

Ok take this picture and multiply it by 60 and you have it.

Please provide us with a list of your 900 scouts that attended surely you have that. It will also help your business to show such a list. And remember PG scouts and agents do not count. I know the MSL here in Dallas each week provide a list of scouts that attend I am sure you can do the same.

PGStaff,

I think your old friend "Shepster" may be back.....

Peace Out! was a clue.

This has the makings of an epic battle.

PG is holding his gloves high, bobing and weaving with every punch.

Newscout is throwing hay makers with no fear.

All the while, 7853 scouts have been put on the pass list for next years fall festival.
Literally.

I have already purchased a Bad Boy Buggy with a lift kit so I can see higher than any other scout in the history of ever. Already have radar gun kit for front bumper.

Don't give up the fight boys. Stand for what you believe in. There are players out there that depend on you. An accurate scout count is essential for the future.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...youtube_gdata_player

Or, it could be, any one, of a number of multiple personalities.

There probably needs to be a forum just for them.

You guys need to take the advice I did, get you a bass boat and go bass fishing. I guarentee you, there are 600 base in Lake Ray Hubbard.

I'm impressed with both sides of this debate! The social studies teacher in me is visualizing some trench warfare similar to that on the Western Front, circa 1917-1918.

In Tulsa, Ok. there are literally 600 cameras.

quote:

Originally posted by Ken Guthrie:
In Tulsa, Ok. there are literally 600 cameras.

Ken, just what do you mean by... literally?

Counting scouts aside, don't think there's much doubt the influence/power/importance of select sports .... because of the contact, equipment cost, etc. of football that's a difficult off-season select sport but there are growing segments of select spring, contact football for Middle School football ......all other sports being select dominated...

but the larger debate is among ISD athletic departments and the UIL and if they're too cumbersome to react... ISDs need money... athletics is a revenue generator.. there is HUGE market demand.. Can ISDs and UIL adjust or just too big of bureaucratic monster... the market is clear...be part of the new mix or cut games and coaches to support other parts of ISD and watch select sports continue to expand

quote:

Originally posted by dallasblog.com:
Counting scouts aside, don't think there's much doubt the influence/power/importance of select sports .... because of the contact, equipment cost, etc. of football that's a difficult off-season select sport but there are growing segments of select spring, contact football for Middle School football ......all other sports being select dominated...

but the larger debate is among ISD athletic departments and the UIL and if they're too cumbersome to react... ISDs need money... athletics is a revenue generator.. there is HUGE market demand.. Can ISDs and UIL adjust or just too big of bureaucratic monster... the market is clear...be part of the new mix or cut games and coaches to support other parts of ISD and watch select sports continue to expand

Huh?

quote:

Originally posted by dallasblog.com:
Counting scouts aside, don't think there's much doubt the influence/power/importance of select sports .... because of the contact, equipment cost, etc. of football that's a difficult off-season select sport but there are growing segments of select spring, contact football for Middle School football ......all other sports being select dominated...

but the larger debate is among ISD athletic departments and the UIL and if they're too cumbersome to react... ISDs need money... athletics is a revenue generator.. there is HUGE market demand.. Can ISDs and UIL adjust or just too big of bureaucratic monster... the market is clear...be part of the new mix or cut games and coaches to support other parts of ISD and watch select sports continue to expand

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNydBMu1VfI

Exactly the propblem RLB... many are watching Billy Madison as school athletic programs slowly erode through political budget cuts and club sports are one of the country's top growing industries.. Dallas Biz

Idle thoughts about the differences between high school baseball and summer league play:
Heat: Enough said
Pace of game is slower:
Pitcher takes longer to pitch
Players do not hustle in and out
Batter putting batting gloves on in the box, in lieu of on deck circle
On deck batters oblivious that a passed ball / foul ball requires their attention
More passed balls: Catchers do not block the ball with the same intensity
Less double plays: See above
Time Limit: You would think if the kids wanted to play seven innings, the above would not be true
Players not knowing the game situation:
Many runners going half way, when two are out
Outfielders trying to hit the cut off man, when their catch resulted in the third out
The Premier teams seem to participate in league play only because the AABC makes league play a requirement for Farmington. Have actually seen a player take the field without a glove, just so he could meet the requisite number of innings to qualify for the CMWS
The biggest difference between high school and summer league play: (Drum roll please) Enthusiasm. I had a SS tell me one time he would rather be home watching Sponge Bob

I have never been to Farmington, and only hear great things about the Connie Mack World Series. I also hear great things about the Mickey Mantle World Series. My comparisons are with summer league play and high school ball.

All goocd reasons why pro-college/scouts like summer baseball .. much easier to see if a player's got the long-term interest in baseball and sounds like a lot of parents are making their kids play summer ball (which is exactly the revenue point) cause most hs kids cam't get/don't want job and summer leagues are the new recreation centers (current rec centers either closed or now filled with folks older than me) ...football coaches way ahead of other sports with summer conditioning programs (coached by hs coaches) in mornings at school and 7 on 7 tourneys (which are coach run) most of the top fball schools have 4-6 hs coaches at each and every Saturday 7 on 7 and on their league night of play... Doesn't matter who is right or who is wrong.. use change to advantage rather find yourself wondering what happened which is position schools finding themselves in

quote:

Originally posted by dallasblog.com:
sounds like a lot of parents are making their kids play summer ball

I believe it is typically the player wanting to play summer ball, not the parents "making their kid play". At that age it is really up to the player to decide.

quote:

Originally posted by Ken Guthrie:
This has the makings of an epic battle.

PG is holding his gloves high, bobing and weaving with every punch.

Newscout is throwing hay makers with no fear.

All the while, 7853 scouts have been put on the pass list for next years fall festival.
Literally.

I have already purchased a Bad Boy Buggy with a lift kit so I can see higher than any other scout in the history of ever. Already have radar gun kit for front bumper.

Don't give up the fight boys. Stand for what you believe in. There are players out there that depend on you. An accurate scout count is essential for the future.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...youtube_gdata_player

After a couple of months on this board I have determined that Ken Guthrie is either had one or two former jobs.

He has been a former High School Counselor
or a stand up comedian? So which is it?

quote:

Originally posted by Pro Source Dad:


After a couple of months on this board I have determined that Ken Guthrie is either had one or two former jobs.

He has been a former High School Counselor
or a stand up comedian? So which is it?

Actually I sell snow cones for a living. The kinds with the loopty doo straw. Business is good.

I did charge for a magic show once if that counts.

quote:

Actually I sell snow cones for a living. The kinds with the loopty doo straw. Business is good.

I've had Gut's cones....very tasty.

The loopty doo straws really stand out...you know, for better Exposure.

Gut understands that the more exposure you get in the summer, the better!

Trust me...Gut understands much more than that.

P-Diddy,

When this gets to 10,000 views, can we shut it down and move the drill? I dont want this to surpass the C Benoit thread of years ago...We must protect our treasures from the past.

When PG shows a list like the MSL and other showcases do we can move on. I spoke to 5 different scouts this weekend and none attended this event. I 100% beleive they have tons of scouts but 600 did not see the game in question. Still waiting.

quote:

Originally posted by Newscout:
When PG shows a list like the MSL and other showcases do we can move on. I spoke to 5 different scouts this weekend and none attended this event. I 100% beleive they have tons of scouts but 600 did not see the game in question. Still waiting.

I think the time to "move on" has already come. Most threads die a natural death unless someone insists on reviving them.

If your goal is to call out PG publicly, I suspect you will not find many people here who will support that effort. You are of course entitled to your opinion, but running this into the ground just because you have a discrepant view will not endear you to most forum members here.

Vector,

I am not calling PG out. Only asking to prove a statement made by them. How come everyone always calls this calling people out. I call it simply back up what you say. I am one of the biggest fans of PG out there. I just told a younger 15U coach the other day that he needed to attend. One of only a few places in the US you can go and see a couple hundred scouts. Let me say this again "I am a HUGE FAN".

Here comes the but, they defended a statement made on public TV. "We had over 600 scouts at one of our game". "Literally OVER 600".

If anyone believes that... you are not real smart. I would have never said a word if the statement was we had over 200 scouts at one of our games. Still pretty unbelievable but too close to question. Because I have been there.

Most of you are saying let it die, but I know some of you are really enjoying this.

(OK your probably right, I will delete the bottom part) Now back on target.

Newscout,

You have completley gone off target from your original argument and it seems out of jealousy or some other motive you have settled on bashing Logan Stout. As a parent in the Patriots organization I can vouch and say that he is far from a "very good business man" as my son would not have the opportunity to play college baseball if it were not for him. I happened to be at the game in question and although there might not have been "600" exactly I can guarantee you there was 400+ as the photo does not even accurately display the amount present.

Nobody cares. NS is just an alias.

A troll stirring the pot. I do think its kinda funny that PG already discredited him.

Wonder Boy,

You have two things wrong. I am not a Alias, you can look back over the past two years and see I am pretty straight forward and do not take sides very often. And I am not a pot Stirer.

Second thing you have wrong is PG did not discredit me at all. If you think they did please let me know where?

All I am saying is 600 is an exaggerated number. I am 100% confident of it. I stand by what I say and these people should also.

quote:

Originally posted by Newscout:
Vector,

I am not calling PG out. Only asking to prove a statement made by them. How come everyone always calls this calling people out.

The reason people perceive what you are doing as calling someone out, is simply because you are doing just that.
Whether PG or anyone else said 600 scouts vs. 200+ scouts should not be that big of a deal.
One wonders why you seem so invested on proving or disproving it?

I for one have been to Jupiter and I have seen hundreds upon hundreds of scouts. I never took the time(nor did I have the desire)to count how many were on a particular field. The fact of the matter is they zip around from field to field during the games, so it is not hard to imagine that hundreds of scouts will see at least a portion of a particular game. No one said they must be packed in like sardines for the entire game and ignore the other games going on at the same time.

quote:

Originally posted by Newscout:
I know some of you are really enjoying this.

I suspect fewer than you imagine. While some people love drama and/or controversy, they even grow weary of reading about people beating a dead horse.

In the big scheme of life, whether 200, 600, or even 1000 scouts view a portion of a game or not is small potatoes. I for one am thankful that a host of college scouts got to see my son pitch. There may only have been 40 or so because of the time, location, and the fact he was pitching for a mediocre team. They may not have all been from the schools we had hoped for, but we feel as if we got our moneys worth. As I have said in other threads, there were more scouts at the PG event than all the other events we attended combined. So it was worth the time and money on the chance a Notre Dame, Duke, etc. coach may stop by and like him. I know they were on site as I saw them zipping around along with hundreds of other coaches/scouts.

Deion Sanders is from Florida and he said there were thousands...consequently millions in attendance. Sorry, I had to use a little TICKET humor in an attempt to lighten the mood!

I'm not sure which is worse, the fact that this is still being seriously kicked around or that I'm still spending time reading it!

quote:

Originally posted by sayhey:
I'm not sure which is worse, the fact that this is still being seriously kicked around or that I'm still spending time reading it!

I hear you sayhey! I think it's like a car wreck on the highway. You know you shouldn't waste your time looking at but you just can't help yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by sayhey:
I'm not sure which is worse, the fact that this is still being seriously kicked around or that I'm still spending time reading it!

I can't help but laugh when I see that more posts have been added to this thread. I feel compelled to read it just to see what else could possibly be brought up at this point.

I believe the members are attempting to break a record as the highest viewed post ever. It needs to close.

PD must be slippin....back in the day, he would have shut it down long ago.