How much will this affect the players?

quote:

Originally posted by theEH:
Answer this Question, Is Oregon State a Southern School?
Are is it a Northern School?

Great point EH. My question is did they have "Southern pitching depth" or the right pieces in place?

Correct me if I am wrong. Is it not more of a disparity with the WEST COAST schools, who tend to start earlier than even the southern schools. Didn't OSU start 2 weeks ago, whereas the southern schools are starting this week or next?

They all have to play on a more level playing field now.

And that definitely will elicit outcries from the colleges who enjoyed rigging the deal.

Personally - although I am originally from the Northeast and now live in the Southeast - I hope that all the NCAA moves result in more fairness to the schools on the West Coast.

The Southeast colleges have long rigged this deal. Its time for a little scale balancing and a fluch of the old cronies that control NCAA baseball IMO.

It is long overdue.

quote:

Originally posted by Scorekeeper:


If school ends in early May, who’s he playing for after that?

I am wondering if you have any idea how ridiculous the above statement is.

OHfather,
Thanks for the information.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:

quote:

Originally posted by Scorekeeper:

If school ends in early May, who’s he playing for after that?

I am wondering if you have any idea how ridiculous the above statement is.

Am I in the twilight zone here?

We’re talking about college players. You said you have one playing 5 games a week. Then you said school ends in early May, and your boy prefers playing for many weeks with no classes to worry about.

I ask who he’s playing for when school’s over and you tell me I asked a ridiculous questions, and I haven’t got a clue why!

Earlier when I suggested all the season to go past the end of school I got jumped on for that, saying the athletic program would have to foot the bill for the additional room and board.

I don’t quite get what it is I do or say that has you people all ready to hang me from the nearest yardarm, but it looks as though I can’t say anything without someone taking great offense.

Something must be goofy here! I’m the one who started the thread, there’s been a lot of discussion so it must be interesting to somebody, but I’m not allowed to participate without taking shots from every direction.

If you read, I said school ends in early May so he enjoys playing for weeks afterwards with no classes.

If you read my post, I stated his school likes to begin later (preferable end of feb but due to expanded conference now begin 2 weeks earlier), and that school ends early May and he enjoys playing wth no classes to worry about.
Most college seasons end the end of May, early June, go into conference tourneys, then on to post season.

So with that knowledge, guess who he would be playing for after classes end?

If what you are refering to and meant playing after school ends is positive, I have always stated that starting later and playing after school ends is a good thing,IMO.

I am not really sure about why people are so upset about the late start date, most seem to be the fact that there will be more mid week games, which means more missed classes, more work. One thing I see, it's not easy, you have to learn to adjust, and most students CAN handle it, I think that parents cannot. Also, as for added costs, that's now a responsibility for athletic departments to house and feed their players. Maybe some schools where athletic departments do nothing for baseball will wake up and do what's right for their baseball team. Especially if you want to move ahead in post season.
Besides, once schools go into post season, they only have a 25 man roster.

Maybe, just maybe you don't come across with what you post as what you actually mean, that is why you get jumped on.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
If you read, I said school ends in early May so he enjoys playing for weeks afterwards with no classes.

If you read my post, I stated his school likes to begin later (preferable end of feb but due to expanded conference now begin 2 weeks earlier), and that school ends early May and he enjoys playing wth no classes to worry about.
Most college seasons end the end of May, early June, go into conference tourneys, then on to post season.

So with that knowledge, guess who he would be playing for after classes end?

Maybe most colleges you’re familiar with end at the end of May or early Jun, but not the one’s I’m familiar with. I/m sorry if my knowledge isn’t as wide as yours, but I can only respond with what I know or guess.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
If what you are refering to and meant playing after school ends is positive, I have always stated that starting later and playing after school ends is a good thing,IMO.

But when I said that, here’s what was quickly pointed out, and I didn’t want to get into a jousting match. Had you supported my position then, I’d sure have been right there getting your back.

quote:

Originally posted by Novice Dad:I want to answer 2 things you mention. One in regards to pushing out the Regionals, Supers and CWS further. For the "smaller" programs u mention for thise that do make it to a regional how about the expense of keeping kids on campus after classes are over the room and board needs to be paid by the athletis dept. You may not care about them playing into July but I bet the Summer Leagues do especially the top tiered leagues...not mention Mom and Dad and the Summer job that they won't have.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
I am not really sure about why people are so upset about the late start date, …

There would be some people getting upset for no other reason than the resistance to change, no matter it is good or bad. Then out of who’s left, half will be perceive their ox being gored and be angry, while the other half see it as some kind of retribution they’re owed for all the years they got screwed. The result is, a power struggle and arguments, when in fact after just a couple of seasons things will just work out.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
Maybe, just maybe you don't come across with what you post as what you actually mean, that is why you get jumped on.

Or, maybe, just maybe, since I’m still a new guy, people won’t give me just a teeny bit of slack.

Luckily, I don’t take any of this stuff too much to heart, as long as things don’t get personal, and I hope most other folks feel the same way. These topics are all so very much dependent on one’s perspective, its easy to see how people are willing to strenuously argue their points. No harm, no foul.

BTW, here’s the schedule for Sacramento State, so you can see that the rule means a month to them, not just a week or a few games. If it were this year, it would mean 16 more games had to be fit into the time frame.
http://www.hornetsports.com/sports/baseball/schedules/index.asp

Do I feel for them? Yes, but I just can’t reach ‘em! If the NCAA doesn’t want to move the Regionals back, then the schools gotta learn to live with the same thing everybody else does.

To answer theEH above, Oregon State is a Western team, and enjoys that same advantages that I found with Cal State Fullerton. It plays 13 games prior to the new March 1 Opening Day and plays an average of 3.3 games per week after that.

I would be interested to go back and find the last CWS winner who had a extra game or game and a half disadvantage as far as games per week played.

Too many games in a week makes it very difficlt for baseball players to choose a major that involve labs i.e. engineering, chemistry. My son choose his particular west coast school because he could pursue engineering while playing baseball. We'll see what happens next year.

Maybe we are just saying the same htings but in different ways.

I see they begin way before sons school and end their regular season about the same. The diffence is sons school plays more games during the week.

Schools, players and parents will have to adjust.

But in the end, I am quite sure this is not going to make a difference in who goes onto post season and who does not. Lots more to it than a uniform starting date.

One negative I see is that most schools like to get the kinks out before conference play in non conference play and for those schools in larger conferences, that's going to be tough.

Another negative, that's almost 2 months of inter squad for some teams, and that gets old after awhile. JMO.

Scorekeeper

Sacramento State plays 3.4 games a week now. Next year the NCAA will force them to play at the same "disadvantage" as the Northern teams which have to play 4.5-4.8 games per week.



I have read that it was the Big Ten's commissioner James Delany who was instrumental in changing the start date.

"Complaining that the Big Ten schools and schools from the north faced an unfair advantage because of the cold climate, he pushed for the college baseball season to start in March. That meant the College World Series might drag into July." -Yahoo sports Josh Peter 1/5/07

Apparently, "He [also] protected the conference's image as an academic leader, spearheading NCAA legislation that penalizes athletic programs with chronically low graduation rates." -Yahoo sports 1/5/07 I know that this has been a topic of discussion elsewhere in this blog.

Also, he's starting a 24 hour Big Ten network with ESPN/ABC and Fox in August 2007. He'll need quality baseball games to put on it.

Although I haven't read it, I wouldn't be surprised if he was pushing the idea to re-formulate the 11.7 scholarships into 27 or so tuition only scholarships to further equalize the field against schools that have state subsided tuition (eg FL, LA).

If you haven't heard of Delany, he's probably the most powerful figure in college sports today. He controls the BCS for football via the Big Ten and keeps non-BCS conferences out in the cold. I would suspect that now he has NCAA baseball in his sights. He more than anything may do more to re-align college baseball.

OSU plays their first 17 games on the road, including trips to GA, TX, AZ, and HI. First home series in March. How's that for a "western school advantage."
Point is, they get it done with great pitching.

Yes, Jersey Dad has come up with a "Man Rule" !! No more than two quotes per post.

Ladies, of course, are free to continue to talk or quote as long as they want. I have learned long ago never try to stop them!

The question was "How much will this affect the players?"

It will have a larger affect on the players in the warm weather areas. Why? because they will be on the road and miss classes in bunches like the Northern kids do during the spring. It will make it harder to graduate in four years, because players will back off and take 12 units instead of 15 or 18.So instead of just about half the college players having a tough time graduating on time, now ALL the college players will have a tougher time

What this will do is put more schools in a jam with the new APR rule that the NCAA started a couple of years ago. It is costing schools scholarship money right now, and it will cost even more in the future. 40% of the problem was that baseball players were not taking as many credit hours as football and basketball players. The baseball players were getting higher grades, but taking less credits, because football and basketball players went to summer school and baseball players went to summer baseball leagues.

The NCAA wishes that all the sports teams would flush themselves down the toilet except football and basketball. They could care less about baseball.

.
Excellent post bbscout...

The changes for college ball are coming fast and furious and...(schedules, academic and graduation standards, penalities, tighter schedules, transfer rules...)...I don't think we are anyhwere near the end of it.

Big picture/beyond this one decision...It seems to me that college baseball is really at a critical crossroads...

Will decisions be made that will move it forward twards the major status of basketball and football? Sports that seem to have a different set of rules than all other sports.

Or will decisions be made that effectively set it up for a fall....and in the end...take it backwards? More to minor or even Club status?

It appears that we who have student athletes may be caught in a firestorm in the next few years as this shakes out..."guinea pigged" as it were....I don't think that there is any staus Quo...

IMO...It is going to be very important to stay on top of a very dynamic situaion..

44
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Spizzlepop said:
___________________________________________________
OSU plays their first 17 games on the road, including trips to GA, TX, AZ, and HI. First home series in March. How's that for a "western school advantage."
Point is, they get it done with great pitching.
____________________________________________________

Let's compare Oregon State (OSU), who came in first in the Pac Ten and won the CWS, with Indiana U (IU), who finished last in the Big Ten and watched the CWS at home.

Although Oregon State plays its first 17 games on the road, IU plays its first 16 games on the road. That' no difference. That has to do with the Latitude. OSU plays 22 of its 55 total games at home, while IU plays 21 of its 58 games at home. Again, That's no difference. No, "western school advantage."

But....

OSU plays its first 13 games before March 1, while IU plays its first 3 games before March 1. Last year OSU played 10 games before 3/1 and IU played 3. In addition OSU finishes its regular season on May 27, while the Big Ten finishes on May 20.

So....

OSU plays 3.3 games a week after March 1 and 3.1 games a week over the whole season.

IU plays 4.8 games per week after March 1 and 4.6 games over the whole season.

Last year, OSU played 3.4 games a week all year and 3.4 games a week after March 1. IU played 4.6 games a week all year and 4.6 after 3/1.

The point is that 3 good pitcher could and did carry OSU to the CSW: Nickerson 13-4 2.24 GS 20, Buck 13-3 3.44 GS 20 and Stutes 8.2 3.44 GS 14. You can obviously win with three pitchers playing 3.1 or 3.4 games a week. But I'd like to see the same results with 4.6-4.8 games per week. Either you'll overthrow your three good pitchers or have a weak starter or two a week.

And as far as the Southern and Western teams JUST getting more great pitching, from where???? I don't know of any good much less great weekend starter sitting at home waiting for a phone call.

Those teams who now play 3.3 or even 4.1 games a week now will need one or even two new extra starting pitchers next year. Everyone has the same number of scholarships to give and are recruiting the same kids. Maybe some great pitcher will jump at the chance to pitch for OSU for a 10% scholarship instead of a 70% one at IU. But remember that there are 50 or more competitive teams all recruiting this same great pitcher plus dozens of more teams who'd like to be competitive. Being recruited as a 4th or 5th starter with a low percentage scholarship versus being the number 1 or 2 starter with a high percentage scholarship. Which would you choose? And which would help your draft status or your son's draft status more, being the 4th starter at OSU or the 1st starter at IU.

I think that in the long run, this rule change WILL HAVE a significant impact.

quote:

Being recruited as a 4th or 5th starter with a low percentage scholarship versus being the number 1 or 2 starter with a high percentage scholarship. Which would you choose? And which would help your draft status or your son's draft status more, being the 4th starter at OSU or the 1st starter at IU.

I think that in the long run, this rule change WILL HAVE a significant impact.

I think you make some good points but not sure if it will have the predicted impact. I think the good players will still want to go where they are going now. If we make games per week the same across the board, what we'll see may be more of my 4th and 5th guy against more of your 4th and 5th guy. I am guessing the 4th and 5th guys at a top program are going to be better (in general) than the 4th or 5th guys at a lesser program. It's possible the true impact may be seen in the number of regular season wins three guys can accumulate versus spreading that out over the staff.

I research the games played per week per the last 9 CSW winner. I was not surprised.

2006 OSU 3.4 games per week after March 1 start date
and 3.4 games per week whole season

2005 Texas 3.4/3.6

2004 Cal State Fullerton 3.5/3.4

2003 Rice (could find 2003 schedule so used 2007 schedule) 3.7/3.7

2002 Texas 3.6/3.8

2001 Miami(FL) 3.5/3.4

2000 LSU 2.9/3.1 !!!

1999 Miami(FL) 3.2/3.2

1998 USC 3.8/3.7

ClevelandDad, I understand your point, but right now the Southern schools, who seem to play 4.1 games a week, already have a fourth starter, and the Northern schools, who seem to play 4.5 games a week, already have a fifth starter. All those CWS teams above, especially those who only played 3.4, 3.2, 3.1 or even 2.9!! games a week, don't even have a fourth starter (they didn't need one), much less a fifth starter. And last November, during early signing, I bet they were scrambling not only to replace the number 1, 2 and 3 starters that they lost but to find a 4 and 5 starter. Go ahead a look up those teams that are averaging less then 4 games per week. I bet they signed a lot of pitchers for 2007-2008, which means they could signed fewer top position players. Think about it.

Ohio State 4.6 games a week signed 3 pitchers for 2008.
Mich, 4.5, signed 2 pitchers
Miami(OH), 4.5, signed 3 pitchers
Clemson, 4.2. 7
FL, 4.1, 5
Vanderbilt, 4.1, 3
Tenn, 4.1, 6
Oregon State, 3.4, 11 pitchers signed out of 16 total.
Arizona 3.4, 14 pitchers signed out of 26 total.

How much of a scholarship can one expect if you're signing 16 or 26 boys in one year! Are OSU and ASU cutting scholarships to upperclassmen to sign new pitchers? If it's so important to be on a "top" team, would you go there with no scholarship???
Are these pitchers top prospects?

bbscout is right. The warm weather kids will be effected more. They will still get the best players though. The time commitment in the spring will go from about 32 hours a week to maybe 35 or 40 hours a week. It is tough to nearly impossible to get a degree in four years right now. Redshirting a year helps a little. Not everyone does that though. THe kids are getting squeezed between APR and summer ball. Summer ball is going to lose. Coaches will start keeping kids in school over the sumemr like football and hoops, to keep the APR up.

This from the Omaha World-Herald
http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=1200&u_sid=2322725

• According to Texas'[head coach]Garrido, the new format places too much pressure on already taxed pitching staffs. Teams will be forced too often play five games in a week, already a common practice in the North.

"With 11.7 scholarships, it's hard enough to find four (starting pitchers)," he said. "It's hard enough to find three starters. It's hard enough to find one starter."

• The NCAA refuses to move the end of the season. The 2008 College World Series is set for June 13 through 23. This year, it's June 15 through 25. That leaves schools to jam the same 56-game season into a smaller window. A proposal last year to shave four games from the regular season was not approved.

Coaches are strongly against shortening the season, primarily to keep the college game as a viable option for prospect who are also considering the minor leagues.

The changes next year set Feb. 1 as the start date for practice, with the regular season to open on the Friday that falls 13 weeks before the selection of the 64-team NCAA regional field on Memorial Day. The 2009 season will start Feb. 20, with the first games of 2010 set for Feb. 26.

Consider, though, that in one year, no college team will practice on this day. And no games will be played in 2008 until Feb. 22 as a result of new NCAA legislation that requires a nationally uniform start date, implemented, in part, to even the playing field between northern and southern programs.

And this from Baseball America....


NCAA Approves Uniform Start Date For 2008
By Will Kimmey
January 11, 2006

The NCAA Board of Directors approved a Big 10 Conference proposal that will establish a uniform start date for college baseball, beginning with the 2008 season.

The legislation passed with 81 percent of the vote from the NCAA management council Sunday and 91 percent of the vote from Board of Directors on Monday. It takes effect Aug. 1, 2007, and stipulates a formula to determine the first date regular-season games can be played each year. That date is the Friday that falls 13 weeks before the selection of the 64-team NCAA tournament field, which takes place each year on Memorial Day. That gives the 2008 season a Feb. 22 start, with Feb. 20 and 26 starts for 2009 and 2010.

This regular-season starting date is a change from the initial proposed date of the last Friday of February, a compromise submitted by the Pac-10 Conference.

"This seems to be a good compromise. It gives you an extra week to play without moving the season back into July," said Dave Keilitz, American Baseball Coaches Association executive director. "I think a large majority of the coaches are in favor of some sort of start date for the games, depending on what area of the country they are in. Some want a start date a little bit later or a little bit earlier, but most want a uniform date."

Preseason No. 1 Texas started practice Jan. 9 and begins defending its 2005 national title Feb. 3 at San Diego. Four West Coast teams open their regular season schedules a week earlier, on Jan. 27. Games and practices this early will only continue through 2007, after which schools will be forced to reconfigure their schedules.

The legislation also lists Feb. 1 as the first day a team may hold spring practice and extends teams a 45-day window to complete their fall practices.

quote:

OSU plays 3.3 games a week after March 1 and 3.1 games a week over the whole season.

IU plays 4.8 games per week after March 1 and 4.6 games over the whole season.

OHfather...interesting points you made in your post. However, I think you could probably make a more convincing argument if you looked at a NON Big10 conference team for the comparison to OSU. Why? Because the Big10 is ALWAYS going to play at LEAST 4 games per week regardless of how early, or how late the season starts. The Big10 is one of the only conferences that still play 4 game weekend conference series. Game on Friday, doubleheader on Saturday, game on Sunday. Plus....usually a mid-week non-conference game.

America East, I believe is also playing 4 game weekends

TRhit..yes, you are right about America East. Only a few conferences left who play the 4-game weekend conference series.

luvbb,

I pulled a few other non-Big Ten teams below. I compared the worst team in the Big Ten because the Big Ten was instrumental in changing the schedule.

MAC:

Miami(OH) 4.6 games a week after March 1 and 4.4 games a week over the whole season.

Ohio U 4.4/4.2

Big East:

Louisville 4.2/4.1
Cincinnati 3.9/3.8
UConn 4.6/4.6

A-10:

Xavier U. 4.4/4.4
Dayton 4.0/4.0

Horizon:

Wright State 4.2/4.2
UW-Milwaukee 4.3/3.9

Not as bad for the most part as the Big Ten, but no where near the 3-3.5 of some of the elite teams.

quote:

I pulled a few other non-Big Ten teams below. I compared the worst team in the Big Ten because the Big Ten was instrumental in changing the schedule.

Not arguing your point at all...I believe it is more valid with the examples you have now illustrated with.

quote:

Originally posted by bbscout:
…
The NCAA wishes that all the sports teams would flush themselves down the toilet except football and basketball. They could care less about baseball.

I completely agree with your assessment of what the consequences will be, especially the above quote.

But there’s really further shame in the whole thing, in that the same thing could be said for HS baseball. At least in college, the student part of the athletes get to pick and choose what classes to take and how long they need to be in class. Except for a very few HS players, they’re stuck going the whole day, and there’s much less flexibility in what classes they can take.

And the main reason NCAA doesn’t care about baseball goes back to the same old thing, $$$$$$$$$$! There are some schools that manage to get nice crowds so they can make a few bucks to subsidize the sport, but unless I’m in great error, most schools would find crowds of over 500 humongous!

And in HS its much worse! Even in the warm states, the games have to start at around 3PM in order to get the games in. Even those schools with lights don’t like to use them in Feb because when that sun goes down, it gets cold fast!

Although between the issues of classes, the weather, and the fact that getting many folks to show up to support the teams, is bad enough, in places like ours where you can’t charge for HS games, it makes things even worse!

Things would be ever so much easier if the “normal school year were changed to run from October to July! That would give school baseball the chance to be played in the kind of weather it was intended for. ;-)

quote:

Originally posted by Scorekeeper:
Except for a very few HS players, they’re stuck going the whole day, and there’s much less flexibility in what classes they can take.
Isn't that why you go to HS?

Things would be ever so much easier if the “normal school year were changed to run from October to July! That would give school baseball the chance to be played in the kind of weather it was intended for. ;-)
Lets put the Northern kids in school for the best months of the year and have them play/watch football in the winter. HS baseball is only a part of the "big baseball picture". Not everyone lives in your little bubble of nice weather.

Good responses everyone, but here's another take I mentioned on another message board...I think that this new rule puts the frost belt schools at a bigger disadvantage. Condensing the season and playing more games per week means that all schools will need to add more pitching. Now hypothetically...if I am a recruiter for...let's say...Arizona State and I want to win a national championship, I know that I will need a few more pitchers to make that happen...The thing is...I have exhausted all of my prospective resources out west...so I start looking inland to find those 3rd and 4th guys in my rotation. I find a guy in Michigan who was about to commit to the Wolverines and possibly be their number one guy...State pride aside, the Michigan prospect looks outside and sees 2 feet of snow on the ground in late February and says "the heck with this, I'm going to Tempe to be the fourth guy in their rotation, play outside all fall and winter and play against good Pac 10 competition"...could happen...probably will happen...

Condensed seasons mean more pitchers, less position players and a much bigger mess IMO for collegiate baseball. Most Sunbelt schools are going to have to use their weather pitch to recruit out of their area and enhance their pitching staffs...because every other college in their area must also add to their rotations, so the local prospect pools will be picked pretty clean. As a result, the frost belt schools still have a disdvantage....no pitching....What was the NCAA thinking? It doesn't seem that anyone thought this one through...The NCAA seems to be punishing schools for being located in a place that has good weather. Heck, let's be consisitent NCAA...how about Miami, Texas, Misssissippi, Louisiana and arizona schools complain because it's too hot to play football in September and move the football season to October.


Another point...There is not a single sport in college that will play as many games in one week as the NCAA is asking baseball to do starting in 2008. It's hard enough to be a student athlete the way the schedules are now...and not everyone is on a semester system...the schools that are on trimester and quarters will have their mid terms and finals respectively the first week of the season.

Just when collegiate baseball was starting to make huge steps forward with national and regional television contracts, this NCAA ruling could ruin all that has been gained. I fail to see any benefit for the frost belt schools. The sunbelt teams will still have more time outdoors with real game scrimmages to make themselves better...and it's not as if March in Michigan or even Ohio is that much appreciably better...in fact growing up in the Midwest, as many of you know it is often much more harsh than February. And ironically, looking at this years Ohio State schedule, their first 17 games through March 23rd, are all in Florida anyway...so what is gained by them moving everything up to March...other than not having to travel in February too???

The three game weekend series system works for everyone...especially and more importantly the student. To throw in two more games in the middle of the week will be tough for the player that is going to school first and play baseball second...And...most of you have stated that you should pick the school first...I totally agree with that...but what's the point of picking a great academic school, when a player can't afford to take enough hours per semester to be a benefit to him due to the crazy schedule that could have him away from the classroom more than double the days they are presently. That takes it toll. That also could turn a 4 year student athlete into a 5-6 year guy...thereby cancelling out any big savings earned via a scholarship.

Scorekeeper, Please don't feel like I'm being argumentative... but just wanted to share with you a different picture of HS baseball where I live and where many others from the board live as well. Where I am, HS games don't begin until 5:30. Depending on the school, that might be JV or the varsity game. Usually the JV game at my son's former school with the Varsity scheduled around 7:30 and will play under the lights. Our season doesn't begin until Apr 1 with playoffs beginning the end of May running through middle of June with state tourney being around June 19th/20th. Also, our HS game is usually packed in the stands with students, parents, and local fans. Just wanted to share with you again that things vary greatly from area to area... whether that be college or HS.

It would appear to me that the support for HS baseball is varied as the support for college baseball depending on areas and levels of play. That is one of the dynamics that always make discussions interesting here because we all bring very different perspectives to the table.

Excellent post Linedrive10,


We can all take our best shot at how this will play out competition wise, but I think we can all agree that it doesn't do anything positive for academics, except give some students more time at the begin of the spring semester. Like I posted earlier... one step forward, two steps back.

quote:

Originally posted by OHfather:

I have read that it was the Big Ten's commissioner James Delany who was instrumental in changing the start date.
<stuff deleted>
Also, he's starting a 24 hour Big Ten network with ESPN/ABC and Fox in August 2007. He'll need quality baseball games to put on it.

<more stuff deleted>
He controls the BCS for football via the Big Ten and keeps non-BCS conferences out in the cold. I would suspect that now he has NCAA baseball in his sights. He more than anything may do more to re-align college baseball.

Boy does that ever explain a lot - Delany has imposed the BCS system on us... and now is looking at how to turn baseball into a cash cow... with a bias towards making the Big Ten profitable (it is what he gets paid to do)

Well, here is how I see this move, and I am not arguaing with anybody; I'm just telling it how I see it.

Recruiting--this won't change much at all. The southern coaches will now just have to use/develop more of their pitching staffs to eat up the increased number of midweek innings.

Academics--The outstanding students will remain outstanding students. The poor students will remain poor students. Good students will be more proactive in getting projects done earlier, during the time they don't play games yet. I coached a team that played about 15 games in one week (so you want to talk about having enough pitchers?) and then about 45 games in six weeks up north. Team's GPA was almost always in the 2.8-3.0 range for the semester, with a few 4.0 guys sprinkled in there.

Mid-week games--the increase in the number of mid-week games should provide an opportunity for teams to play more against other schools in their region, and thus for 'bragging rights' or to help with some regional recruiting wars.

Travel--northern schools who travel will now just travel a weekend or two later and may (or may not) schedule one or two more games on their weekend trips.

Northern coaches have wanted this for years; southern coaches have been against it for years. The southern coaches who claim to have overused pitching staffs need to look in their mirrors. Usually there are only a few pitchers who throw too many innings. Those same coaches have pitchers on their staffs who throw 1-20 innings per season; I think those guys can use the work, assuming the coaches help to develop them.

We sure have a lot of negative thinking people in our forums.

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:
Isn't that why you go to HS?

You took that out of context. I was comparing the choices HS players have with the choices available to college players.

quote:

Originally posted by rz1: Lets put the Northern kids in school for the best months of the year and have them play/watch football in the winter. HS baseball is only a part of the "big baseball picture". Not everyone lives in your little bubble of nice weather.

I’m not quite sure what you’re saying, but if you’re thoughts are that I in any way defend or think “sunbelt” baseball is superior, you’re dead wrong! I’ve always hated the smug superiority so prevalent in the sunbelt.

Being from the South, I think the change stinks & brings everyone down to the lowest common denominator.

It would be nice if it caused coaches to develop/use more pitchers. But I'm afraid it might often just result in more overuse.

Given the way the weather in the country has changed this might well be a boon for the southern schools---less rain outs early on

quote:

Originally posted by linedrive10:
I find a guy in Michigan who was about to commit to the Wolverines and possibly be their number one guy...State pride aside, the Michigan prospect looks outside and sees 2 feet of snow on the ground in late February and says "the heck with this, I'm going to Tempe to be the fourth guy in their rotation, play outside all fall and winter and play against good Pac 10 competition".
What stands in the way of that is the number 11.7

Condensed seasons mean more pitchers, less position players and a much bigger mess IMO for collegiate baseball. Most Sunbelt schools are going to have to use their weather pitch to recruit out of their area and enhance their pitching staffs...because every other college in their area must also add to their rotations, so the local prospect pools will be picked pretty clean. As a result, the frost belt schools still have a disdvantage....no pitching....What was the NCAA thinking?
Parity

It doesn't seem that anyone thought this one through...The NCAA seems to be punishing schools for being located in a place that has good weather. Heck, let's be consisitent NCAA...how about Miami, Texas, Misssissippi, Louisiana and arizona schools complain because it's too hot to play football in September and move the football season to October.
It sure doesn't seem to be parity issues in football and that what this is all about


Another point...There is not a single sport in college that will play as many games in one week as the NCAA is asking baseball to do starting in 2008. It's hard enough to be a student athlete the way the schedules are now....
There wasn't a single sport in playing more games before. All they are asking is that everyone plays the same within a specific timeframe

Just when collegiate baseball was starting to make huge steps forward with national and regional television contracts, this NCAA ruling could ruin all that has been gained.
A step forward for a few may result in a step back for many others

And ironically, looking at this years Ohio State schedule, their first 17 games through March 23rd, are all in Florida anyway...so what is gained by them moving everything up to March...other than not having to travel in February too??? You seem to be picking your battles using specific teams instead of looking at everyones situation

lafmom,

I don’t think you being argumentative at all. You’re simply telling us what you’re experience is.

I was born and raised in northeastern Ohio, and can tell you we had much better support for our HS teams than I see out here, but there’s no way we could have started games at 5:30 in the afternoon in Apr. There were some years that would work, but certainly it would have been just as common to see the temp at game time being 40 and dropping as it would have been to see temps in the 50’s or 60’s. The other major obstacle was, there were only about 1 school in 10 that had access to a field with lights.

This nuthouse out here is something totally different as far as temps go, but I sure haven’t seen anything like a majority of HS’s having baseball lights. And since we start in early Feb, no one really wants to be playing after dark anyway. That would be ok in SoCal, but up here it often still gets cold.

But you’re definitely correct that things are different everywhere. I sure envy you and your players having more than a few scattered fans cheering them on. Sometimes we’d see a decent crowd, 100-500, but other than PO time, it was pretty rare.

I think another thing causing the great difference is, population. Here, we’re so crowded and still growing, the schools, thanx mostly to the wonderful administration, are all running on empty. I don’t know if you caught it, but I posted once that our school district only budgets $2,500 for the entire baseball program.

We have 7 2,500+ HS in our district, all within a 10 mile diameter. Each school has a baseball program, all have Fr, JV, and V, and all have their own ball fields.

The V and JV play about 26 games each, and the Fr about 16. That means the JV will need at least 13 umps, the Fr at least 8, and the V 26. That’s 47 umpires at about $50 per. That’s over $2,200 just for umps! That isn’t travel, equipment, field prep, lights, balls, or anything else!

What I’m trying to say is, if you have a strong booster club or a BOE that funds baseball, it can make all the difference in the world.

I live in a region that is considered south, but son chose to go north, but where he plays is considered south . However, come springtime, he enjoys the weather much better than if he were down here playing in the heat. For the northern folks, I understand that february/march even april do not offer the best weather conducive to playing baseball. However, any of you ever been "south" for any of those late May/June games where it's over 100 degrees? That's what we here in the south have to put up with, it ain't easy, trust me.


It snowed last week in South Carolina, it's extemely cold up there right now with no indoor facilities to go into to for practice.

Most of the schools in his conference reside in colder weather states, Maryland, UNC, Boston College, GATech, UVA, Duke, Wake, NC State, heck, it's very cold now in Tallahassee.

Many of these schools are ranked pre season top 10.

The change in start schedule will not stop dominance in conferences such as the ACC or SEC. They still will attract top talent no matter when they start, (most begin late february anyway), or where they are.

It's a good argument and good discussion, but when the dust settles, in spring 2008, it'll be interesting to see who will head off to the championship games.

Regarding HS in this discussion. I think there should be more HS games during the week, then more players will learn how to cope with playing baseball and attending classes, good practice for what's ahead.

Scorekeeper,
This topic was about changes in starting dates
in college, let's keep it on tract. Has nothing to do fundraising in HS, etc
FYI, we too here in FL have schools with 2500+, very common problem these days, everywhere.

quote:

Originally posted by theEH:
Answer this Question, Is Oregon State a Southern School?
Are is it a Northern School?

They must be a Southern School considering they opened up with a Hawaii trip next is Georgia and after that is AZ...