SK,
At every level past t-ball the better players get more time in the key positions. Who the better players may be may change from level to level but the better players will continue to get the playing time.
I think however the changes in who the better players are happen less often than people seem to think they do. The best two 8yos in our league many years back are the two who made varsity as freshmen. #3 as an 8yo made JV as a freshman. One of those pitchers I had made JV as a freshman. Their all-star catcher made varsity as a sophmore. Each of the better kids from the 12yo all-star team who is a younger sophmore is playing JV. Some of the kids who had bad birthdays for LL and good birthdays for HS ball have done well but they are starting to fall behind the more talented younger kids as the advantage due to age difference/maturity slips away.
In the end talent and hard work win out. Oh well enough of this, too far off topic.
Ok, here's the thought for the day. 
Did we ever consider that the compact schedules, which means more weekly games, will decrease the transfer rate.
Will players who transfer because they feel they are not getting enough playing time remain?
Will this increase schools APR?
Did we ever consider that the compact schedules, which means more weekly games, will decrease the transfer rate.
Will players who transfer because they feel they are not getting enough playing time remain?
Will this increase schools APR?
I am a college professor and fear even more missed class time, especially for the schools without lights.
quote:Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
For those that have responded to my post.
I was just trying ot make a point, maybe not clear.
My southern player decided to go "north", could have stayed down here in warmer climate,
TPM, everything is North from where you live.
Not all schools have facilities available for practice when there is snow on the ground or it's raining. Bad weather, you don't practice, you hit the gym for workout, that's it. There are no indoor facitilities available for inclement weather.
What you are describing is winter practice up North. My sons team rented out an indoor socker facility last Saturday night from 10pm til 2 am so outfielders could throw longer than a basketball court and so they could have thier first infield on something other that wood since early Oct. Almost all Northern schools practice in a gym in the Winter and early Spring, that is their practice facility, they may not see dirt, grass, or turf until they get to the field of the first game.
To you those are not cold weather states to many they are.
To a FEW people they might think that. Most people would smile if someone said the Carolinas were a cold State
As far as mentioning 100 degrees, was pointing out there are extemes on both sides. Players learn to adjust to situations better than parents do. JMO.
Is this about parents or about players? The first month of a Northern college home season is played in 40-50 degree weather and sometimes with snow in the air and it's often hot and muggy from June on.
Is there a rule that says you have to play 56 games or is that a maximum?
Deldad:
56 games is a regular season schedule. Some teams seem to play more. Also 56 doesn't include conference championship tournaments.
TPM:
The NCAA board is presently studying the one time transfere rule along with other academic issues in their baseball sub-committee. There report is due in April. It will probable lead to votes on further issues.
From the NCAA Div 1 Board of Directors Jan. 2007 meeting:
Baseball Academic Enhancement Working Group
Status Report
Overview.
During its April 2006 meeting, the NCAA Division I Board of Directors agreed to table a legislative proposal to reduce the maximum number of contests from 56 to 52. The Board then instructed the baseball community to develop a proposal over the next year to address concerns regarding academic performance in baseball by reviewing such factors as the current one-time transfer exception, financial aid limits, playing and practice season limits and the overall culture of the sport. The Board indicated an intention to review the impact of any changes resulting from the baseball community’s proposal two years after the submission of a comprehensive plan in April 2007 to determine whether additional changes to baseball would be warranted to help enhance the overall level of academic performance in that sport.
Options for Consideration.
1. Student-athlete Movement. The following options are designed to slow student-athlete movement by (1) more fairly awarding athletics financial aid, (2) discouraging fall tryouts leading to “run-offs” and/or (3) discourage “oversigning” by coaches.
2. Credit-hour production. The following options are designed to (1) require baseball student-athletes to focus more attention on their academics during the spring term; (2) provide some flexibility in the awarding of summer financial aid; and (3) address the time commitments of baseball student-athletes during the season.
3. Two-Year College Issues The following options are designed to (1) ensure that two-year college transfers transition to a four-year college with the appropriate number of credit hours; and (2) limit the impact of a subgroup of baseball student-athletes that statistically perform poorly academically.
56 games is a regular season schedule. Some teams seem to play more. Also 56 doesn't include conference championship tournaments.
TPM:
The NCAA board is presently studying the one time transfere rule along with other academic issues in their baseball sub-committee. There report is due in April. It will probable lead to votes on further issues.
From the NCAA Div 1 Board of Directors Jan. 2007 meeting:
Baseball Academic Enhancement Working Group
Status Report
Overview.
During its April 2006 meeting, the NCAA Division I Board of Directors agreed to table a legislative proposal to reduce the maximum number of contests from 56 to 52. The Board then instructed the baseball community to develop a proposal over the next year to address concerns regarding academic performance in baseball by reviewing such factors as the current one-time transfer exception, financial aid limits, playing and practice season limits and the overall culture of the sport. The Board indicated an intention to review the impact of any changes resulting from the baseball community’s proposal two years after the submission of a comprehensive plan in April 2007 to determine whether additional changes to baseball would be warranted to help enhance the overall level of academic performance in that sport.
Options for Consideration.
1. Student-athlete Movement. The following options are designed to slow student-athlete movement by (1) more fairly awarding athletics financial aid, (2) discouraging fall tryouts leading to “run-offs” and/or (3) discourage “oversigning” by coaches.
2. Credit-hour production. The following options are designed to (1) require baseball student-athletes to focus more attention on their academics during the spring term; (2) provide some flexibility in the awarding of summer financial aid; and (3) address the time commitments of baseball student-athletes during the season.
3. Two-Year College Issues The following options are designed to (1) ensure that two-year college transfers transition to a four-year college with the appropriate number of credit hours; and (2) limit the impact of a subgroup of baseball student-athletes that statistically perform poorly academically.
Wouldn't it make sense to just schedule less games, save some pitching try to win your conference. If there is no mandatory number of games, if I were one of the big conferences I would cancel some mid week games to save pitching.
Keep in mind that the mid week games are used to develop the pitchers who will be the weekend startes in the next few years
If anyone reads Baseball America, ASU had 5 incoming transfers this january.
I am wondering how the players that began in the fall and returning players feel about that. I am wondering how many transfered out in january.
I am wondering how the players that began in the fall and returning players feel about that. I am wondering how many transfered out in january.
OH Father:
Your report has one key term, "culture of the sport"
The big problems (IMO) are:
1. Poor academic performance
2. The transfer issue
3. The f-word (it's rampant and it's gotta be stopped people)
Your report has one key term, "culture of the sport"
The big problems (IMO) are:
1. Poor academic performance
2. The transfer issue
3. The f-word (it's rampant and it's gotta be stopped people)
deldad- 
-I was wondering if anyone would get to your point-Good job.
There is NO minimum number of games required by the NCAA. Harvard has about 43 games this
this year and a lot of other schools also schedule less. There is no way to require a minimum number because of the many cancellations that occur during the season because of weather, technical, transportation and any number of other reasons. It would be impossible to make up all these games and the NCAA would have a heck of a time explaining
punishing a team for "not" playing at least 56 games.
56 games is not really the maximum regular season amount either. Teams that travel to Hawaii do not count those games played against the 56. So it's possible to play 61 regular season games plus tournament and CWS games.
If a school wanted to cut back on their schedule THEY COULD. Some schools take some of those 56(61) and play a fall schedule-problem is they only have a few weeks(allowed by the NCAA) to get ready for those games.
I did not agree with the NCAA ruling changing the start date and certainly hope they leave the 56 max schedule alone, and wish they would add a few games allowed in the fall-maybe 5-10. But I can see a reason for a uniform starting date and realize a compromise has to be made somewhere. Notre Dame, Ohio State, Minnesota, Evansville , St. Johns, BC,
and others all have strong baseball programs and have done it under the old time frame.
Rice, Stanford, Vanderbilt, Ga Tech and other "academic" schools have all built strong
programs while being at a disadvantage when it comes to recruiting.
I see this as an attempt to appease a few "loud voices" because as we all know the squeaky wheel gets the grease. JMHO.
BTW- The name of the game is COACHING.
-I was wondering if anyone would get to your point-Good job.There is NO minimum number of games required by the NCAA. Harvard has about 43 games this
this year and a lot of other schools also schedule less. There is no way to require a minimum number because of the many cancellations that occur during the season because of weather, technical, transportation and any number of other reasons. It would be impossible to make up all these games and the NCAA would have a heck of a time explaining
punishing a team for "not" playing at least 56 games.
56 games is not really the maximum regular season amount either. Teams that travel to Hawaii do not count those games played against the 56. So it's possible to play 61 regular season games plus tournament and CWS games.
If a school wanted to cut back on their schedule THEY COULD. Some schools take some of those 56(61) and play a fall schedule-problem is they only have a few weeks(allowed by the NCAA) to get ready for those games.
I did not agree with the NCAA ruling changing the start date and certainly hope they leave the 56 max schedule alone, and wish they would add a few games allowed in the fall-maybe 5-10. But I can see a reason for a uniform starting date and realize a compromise has to be made somewhere. Notre Dame, Ohio State, Minnesota, Evansville , St. Johns, BC,
and others all have strong baseball programs and have done it under the old time frame.
Rice, Stanford, Vanderbilt, Ga Tech and other "academic" schools have all built strong
programs while being at a disadvantage when it comes to recruiting.
I see this as an attempt to appease a few "loud voices" because as we all know the squeaky wheel gets the grease. JMHO.
BTW- The name of the game is COACHING.
quote:Originally posted by Moc1:BTW- The name of the game is COACHING.
If its all about coaching, why don’t the coaches just quit scheduling so many games?
If its all about coaching, why don’t the coaches just develop more P’s and the problem just goes away?
If its all about coaching, and fall ball is so productive, why don’t the coaches get together and split the season into Spring and Fall?
I’m not trying to be contrary, but I get pretty tired of hearing about how any one group of people it takes to play the game gets raised above the others. IMO, the simplest way to look at it is to see who the game could be played without.
Could games be played without a governing body overseeing every aspect of it? Sure it could! It wouldn’t be nearly as organized, but games could easily be played, and certainly were before the NCAA came into being.
Could games be played without school administrators and support staff like the Dean, the AD, and the maintenance employees? Again, of course it could. Things would get pretty hectic, and the fields might look like the Devil, but games could be played.
Could games be played without coaches? For sure they could! Of course it would be a much longer process of development, and there would be a whole lot mor bickering among the players trying to decide who should play, but the games could surely be played.
Could games be played without the players? Now that would be a trick!
I see this playing out to the disadvantage of the smaller schools and the players. Either the big boys will shrink their schedules to cut back on the need for extra pitchers, work the pitchers they have more, or go out and get extra pitchers and divide that 11.7 a little more.
Scorekeeper-Maybe I didn't make my point clear enough(been known to do that before).
When I say it's all about coaching I'm saying the SUCCESS of college baseball programs
relies heavily on the coach(coaching staff). Hence the success of the teams I mentioned in my post. Yes, they were able to bring in some decent athletes, but I can name a number of schools that brought in decent athletes(so-called top recruiting classes) and failed miserably to achieve that projected success. Two of them in the SEC. And what about Kentucky-projected to finish near the bottom and then proceeded to surprise everyone and finished at the top. Their pitchers weren't flamethrowers but they sure did get some excellent coaching and they shut down the "big boys" pretty well.
BTW if it's not about coaching and winning please explain why schools are willing to pay top dollar for these coaches-$500,000 to 1,000,000+. If you don't believe good coaches can turn programs around and make them winners then you're very naive at best. I would have to say that Kentucky is not a warm weather state but that coach did one heck of a job last year and they need to do their utmost to keep him there.
I don't know how you got off on a tangent about playing college baseball without players
-it wasnt remotely what I was talking about. I think this whole thread is about trying to
get ALL of college baseball on a level playing field by changing the starting date which
may or may not help, but until there is evidence of a shift the COACHES are going to be the variable that makes a difference.
When I say it's all about coaching I'm saying the SUCCESS of college baseball programs
relies heavily on the coach(coaching staff). Hence the success of the teams I mentioned in my post. Yes, they were able to bring in some decent athletes, but I can name a number of schools that brought in decent athletes(so-called top recruiting classes) and failed miserably to achieve that projected success. Two of them in the SEC. And what about Kentucky-projected to finish near the bottom and then proceeded to surprise everyone and finished at the top. Their pitchers weren't flamethrowers but they sure did get some excellent coaching and they shut down the "big boys" pretty well.
BTW if it's not about coaching and winning please explain why schools are willing to pay top dollar for these coaches-$500,000 to 1,000,000+. If you don't believe good coaches can turn programs around and make them winners then you're very naive at best. I would have to say that Kentucky is not a warm weather state but that coach did one heck of a job last year and they need to do their utmost to keep him there.
I don't know how you got off on a tangent about playing college baseball without players
-it wasnt remotely what I was talking about. I think this whole thread is about trying to
get ALL of college baseball on a level playing field by changing the starting date which
may or may not help, but until there is evidence of a shift the COACHES are going to be the variable that makes a difference.
Perhaps it was just a coincedence the team The UK coach left has gone to the bottom of the pile last year, and projected to be there again this year, but I doubt it.
Moc1
May I ask where you got those dollar figures for college baseball coaches?
They would give their right arms to be making that
May I ask where you got those dollar figures for college baseball coaches?
They would give their right arms to be making that
About 10 years ago, I had the pleasure of having lunch with Rod Dedeaux, the legendary USC coach. I congratulated him on being such a great coach over so many years, and got a chuckle out of his reply. He said "good coaches coach and great coaches recruit". He said that lots of coaches coached as well as he did, but that he was real good in the prospects living room.
Also, his pay was one dollar per year.
Also, his pay was one dollar per year.
quote:Originally posted by Moc1:
I don't know how you got off on a tangent about playing college baseball without players
-it wasnt remotely what I was talking about. I think this whole thread is about trying to
get ALL of college baseball on a level playing field by changing the starting date which
may or may not help, but until there is evidence of a shift the COACHES are going to be the variable that makes a difference.
Moc1,
Saying the SUCCESS of college baseball programs relies heavily on the coach(coaching staff) is not the same thing as saying The name of the game is coaching.
That may sound picky, and if it is, I’m sorry. I sure didn’t mean to insult any coaches.
What the schools are willing to pay those kinds of salaries for coaches is just as amazing to me as why owners would pay a guy who only shows up once ever 5 days, $126M. It amazes me, but I understand it.
The schools that pay those prices believe they get value for their $, and that’s their business. Personally, I don’t believe there’s a whole lot of college baseball coaches getting $500K. And, choosing one school as an example out of all the schools out there, doesn’t score many points with me as far as saying all the coaches who win are great and all the ones who lose, suck.
I didn’t get off on a tangent at all. You said The name of the game is coaching, and I disagree. The name of the game is baseball, and without players there is no game.
Go back and look at who started the thread. That guy just posted a newspaper story for discussion, and as far as I can tell, all discussion about it is OK.
I think you’re prolly right about the coaches being the variable that makes the difference, but that’s gonna happen only because they’re getting forced into a more equitable position. If it was something that coaches could have already solved without being forced, they’d have done it! But no one wants to give up their kingdom!
56 games in xx days - or 52 games in xx-14 days.
NCAA Board Resolutions and Studies - LOL
How about just hitting the **** out of the ball - striking every one out and running like a wild dog.
And when you are finished - and nice and dirty and sweaty - go take a shower, do your homework and be happy you are playing baseball in college.
And dont whine about it either. Its unbecoming.
NCAA legislative proposals - LOL - They couldnt legislate a good cup of coffee. LOL
NCAA Board Resolutions and Studies - LOL
How about just hitting the **** out of the ball - striking every one out and running like a wild dog.
And when you are finished - and nice and dirty and sweaty - go take a shower, do your homework and be happy you are playing baseball in college.
And dont whine about it either. Its unbecoming.
NCAA legislative proposals - LOL - They couldnt legislate a good cup of coffee. LOL
I don't know about the salaries but I tend to agree with Moc. A lot of the success of a program relies on coachng staff. JMO.
I posted something a while back and it was misunderstood about parents and this issue. I think that iitg makes a great point.
We are sitting here debating playing 4-5 games a week. Do you think that our boys REALLY care, they live for playing everyday.
I posted something a while back and it was misunderstood about parents and this issue. I think that iitg makes a great point.
We are sitting here debating playing 4-5 games a week. Do you think that our boys REALLY care, they live for playing everyday.
TR-$500,000 to $1,000,000 includes salary,camps,speaking fees set up by the college, bonuses paid for winning NC, TV/Radio show, and endorsement contracts by the equipment
companies for using their products(personally saw 1 check made out to a top coach in the state of Kansas for $35,000 about 8 years ago). Of course, most coaches don't k
make that kind of money just as most ML baseball players do not make what Arod,Jeter,Soriano,Clemens make. I have also seen the salary breakdown at one of the colleges in the Big Twelve and was surprised at what they paid the baseball coach(it wasn't UT). I know from personal knowledge what the lowest paid coach in the Big East made last year-Base salary was $85,000 and he is no longer coaching because he was not successful among other considerations. I'm sure a lot of coaches would give their right
arm to make that kind of money but they don't pay that to average coaches. You have to be
WORTH it. Ole Miss's coach got a huge increase to keep him there-if you dont think he's at that level now do a little research. You'll be surprised.
Scorekeeper-Quote from first post:
"Setting a uniform national starting date is meant to eliminate competitive advantages gained by schools in the West and Southwest that generally have abundant good winter weather while schools in other regions are covered in snow."
Not saying you can't talk apples and oranges if you want to. It's alright with me, I'm just referring to your reference to my statement-"The name of the game is coaching."
Again, good coaches produce successful teams most of the time with a few exceptions.
I personally know a coach who has taken players that the top D1 teams would not even look at and beaten those same teams soundly with those same players.
You may disagree but I hope you understand what you are disagreeing with. I'm saying coaching makes the difference when trying to reach parity in college baseball. Maybe most of the good coaches have gone south and west with the exceptions noted in my first post. Would appreciate a response as to how those teams have been successful in the frigid north.
companies for using their products(personally saw 1 check made out to a top coach in the state of Kansas for $35,000 about 8 years ago). Of course, most coaches don't k
make that kind of money just as most ML baseball players do not make what Arod,Jeter,Soriano,Clemens make. I have also seen the salary breakdown at one of the colleges in the Big Twelve and was surprised at what they paid the baseball coach(it wasn't UT). I know from personal knowledge what the lowest paid coach in the Big East made last year-Base salary was $85,000 and he is no longer coaching because he was not successful among other considerations. I'm sure a lot of coaches would give their right
arm to make that kind of money but they don't pay that to average coaches. You have to be
WORTH it. Ole Miss's coach got a huge increase to keep him there-if you dont think he's at that level now do a little research. You'll be surprised.
Scorekeeper-Quote from first post:
"Setting a uniform national starting date is meant to eliminate competitive advantages gained by schools in the West and Southwest that generally have abundant good winter weather while schools in other regions are covered in snow."
Not saying you can't talk apples and oranges if you want to. It's alright with me, I'm just referring to your reference to my statement-"The name of the game is coaching."
Again, good coaches produce successful teams most of the time with a few exceptions.
I personally know a coach who has taken players that the top D1 teams would not even look at and beaten those same teams soundly with those same players.
You may disagree but I hope you understand what you are disagreeing with. I'm saying coaching makes the difference when trying to reach parity in college baseball. Maybe most of the good coaches have gone south and west with the exceptions noted in my first post. Would appreciate a response as to how those teams have been successful in the frigid north.
quote:Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
I don't know about the salaries but I tend to agree with Moc. A lot of the success of a program relies on coachng staff. JMO.
[color: BLUE]Of course it does! But not all of it by any stretch of the imagination!
Would you care to estimate what percent of the success a program has is dependent on each of the following factors?
The school. Ie, its reputation, location, etc,,
The administration. Ie the dean, AD, etc.
The coaches.
The players. [/color]
I posted something a while back and it was misunderstood about parents and this issue. I think that iitg makes a great point.
We are sitting here debating playing 4-5 games a week. Do you think that our boys REALLY care, they live for playing everyday.
I can’t speak for every player, but I can assure you that neither can anyone else. I’m sure there are plenty of players who actually live only to play baseball every day, but I can tell you, its not all of them!
When the team has to came back 2 weeks earlier than all the other students after the New Year’s break so they can practice from 10 in the morning until dark 6 days a week, I can tell you that there are at least one or two that don’t think its worth it.
When there’s a makeup home game on a day when there’s a class you have to be at, and its not an excused absence and you get popped a grade for having to make it up, no too many players think that’s too cool either.
Playing ball for a school team is an honor and it certainly can be fun, but don’t ever believe “every” player is out there having a blast, and wouldn’t rather be anywhere else for any reason.
Scorekeeper,
For those players that rather be anywhere else - they should probably go there - as soon as possible.
LOL
For those players that rather be anywhere else - they should probably go there - as soon as possible.
LOL
itsinthe game said:
This whole forum topic is about how the NCAA Board of Directors legislated all baseball programs to start practice no earlier than Feb. 1, 2008 and no games before Feb. 22, 2008. All the games being played last weekend and the next couple of weeks won't be played at this time next year. LOL
quote:
56 games in xx days - or 52 games in xx-14 days.
NCAA Board Resolutions and Studies - LOL
How about just hitting the **** out of the ball - striking every one out and running like a wild dog.
And when you are finished - and nice and dirty and sweaty - go take a shower, do your homework and be happy you are playing baseball in college.
And dont whine about it either. Its unbecoming.
NCAA legislative proposals - LOL - They couldnt legislate a good cup of coffee. LOL
This whole forum topic is about how the NCAA Board of Directors legislated all baseball programs to start practice no earlier than Feb. 1, 2008 and no games before Feb. 22, 2008. All the games being played last weekend and the next couple of weeks won't be played at this time next year. LOL
scorekeeper
My guy used to leave before New Years to meet the team and be on campus to practice on their own for 10 days before "official" practice began.
My guy used to leave before New Years to meet the team and be on campus to practice on their own for 10 days before "official" practice began.
That's fine make everything fair for the Northern schools vs the Southern schools?
I'm wondering IF are when
They will make it Fair with the selection committee on who makes the playoffs?
You know the Obvious East coast Bias against the West? How many College teams are there in Carolina anyway.LoL
EH
I'm wondering IF are when
They will make it Fair with the selection committee on who makes the playoffs?
You know the Obvious East coast Bias against the West? How many College teams are there in Carolina anyway.LoL
EH
I need to apologize and say I'm sorry for calling out a whole area like that, I was just trying to be a funnyman?
And I'm sorry
EH
And I'm sorry
EH
quote:Originally posted by itsinthegame:
Scorekeeper,
For those players that rather be anywhere else - they should probably go there - as soon as possible.
LOL
Good post!
Scorekeeper,
Do you have a college player?
Most college baseball players do head back early, before official practice begins, and most of them spend their entire christmas vacation in the gym, batting cages, long tossing, that for some is about a month.
It is a huge commitment, no matter where you play, and if you don't enjoy playing any type of college athletics, you don't play.
Players will adjust, and if they can't, it will give way to players that can and really want to be there.
quote:Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
Scorekeeper,
Do you have a college player?
TPM - I'm sorry but just because you are the parent of a college player, doesn't entitle you (or anybody) to look down your nose at others for offering an opinion. You use this line way too often and it's getting old.
I would also like to address your comment when you stated "We are sitting here debating playing 4-5 games a week. Do you think that our boys REALLY care, they live for playing everyday." I AM the parent of a student/athlete myself, and as such, we need to keep in mind that they are first and foremost students and there for an education. Of course some of the boys wouldn't care if they got to play 4-5 games a week. But there are probably just as many who care about missing a class or a lab or whatever, and who aspire to be a doctor or lawyer some day. They know the odds of making it past college are long so they are doing what they can to prepare themselves in case they don't get a call in June. And what happens if the boys who "live for baseball" let their grades slip and ultimately flunk out of school? They may not care but I'm guessing their parents might.
Beezer,
I asked a question. I asked this question because I don't understand what scorekeeper is talking about half the time and doesn't seem to want to listen to others. I have that perogative to do so. When and where was the last time I asked someone that question?
In case you do not know, I have always, always stated that college is first and foremost, you go to college for an education. Baseball comes second. That's my opinion.
Most 18,19 year olds who attend college really not sure what career direction they want when they first enter school. Baseball is definetly difficult to plan around and this should be a consideration when choosing schools and during the recruting process. How about asking, what support will my son get when he has to miss a class during the week, who can help him schedule classes he needs for his intended major? Will my son have access to tutors? How many players and parents actually ask these when being recruited? There are tons of players being recruited and their folks don't read the HSBBW, many don't even care to ask such questions, they are just so happy their son got a chance to play the game beyond HS. So adjustments need to be made, adjustments in recruiting, adjustments as to where to attend school,adjustments in deciding upon major, adjustment deciding to give up the game.
As a parent, if my son was struggling in school due to high demands of a baseball program, then I would sit down with my son and ask where his priorities are. I wouldn't or couldn't watch him stuggle and be unhappy.
I understand the concern, and I will be the first to tell you, and have always stated that it is not easy, 4-5 games a week. But it CAN be done. The love of the game and the desire to play somehow makes many work harder to be the best they can be, on and off the field.
If a player finds it all to be a burden, long hours of practice, workouts, study hall, missed classes, too much time on the baseball field, then I don't think they belong in that situation, JMO.
But our players do tend to adjust very well to situations, and tend to figure most things out on their own when they get there. We, as parents, tend to worry to much. JMO.
I asked a question. I asked this question because I don't understand what scorekeeper is talking about half the time and doesn't seem to want to listen to others. I have that perogative to do so. When and where was the last time I asked someone that question?
In case you do not know, I have always, always stated that college is first and foremost, you go to college for an education. Baseball comes second. That's my opinion.
Most 18,19 year olds who attend college really not sure what career direction they want when they first enter school. Baseball is definetly difficult to plan around and this should be a consideration when choosing schools and during the recruting process. How about asking, what support will my son get when he has to miss a class during the week, who can help him schedule classes he needs for his intended major? Will my son have access to tutors? How many players and parents actually ask these when being recruited? There are tons of players being recruited and their folks don't read the HSBBW, many don't even care to ask such questions, they are just so happy their son got a chance to play the game beyond HS. So adjustments need to be made, adjustments in recruiting, adjustments as to where to attend school,adjustments in deciding upon major, adjustment deciding to give up the game.
As a parent, if my son was struggling in school due to high demands of a baseball program, then I would sit down with my son and ask where his priorities are. I wouldn't or couldn't watch him stuggle and be unhappy.
I understand the concern, and I will be the first to tell you, and have always stated that it is not easy, 4-5 games a week. But it CAN be done. The love of the game and the desire to play somehow makes many work harder to be the best they can be, on and off the field.
If a player finds it all to be a burden, long hours of practice, workouts, study hall, missed classes, too much time on the baseball field, then I don't think they belong in that situation, JMO.
But our players do tend to adjust very well to situations, and tend to figure most things out on their own when they get there. We, as parents, tend to worry to much. JMO.
And I was led to believe they were "Student Athletes". The NCAA is one of the most hypocritical organizations around!
From the NCAA D-1 Manual:
2.14 THE PRINCIPLE GOVERNING PLAYING AND PRACTICE SEASONS *
The time required of student-athletes for participation in intercollegiate athletics shall be regulated to minimize interference with their opportunities for acquiring a quality education in a manner consistent with that afforded the general student body.
2.2 THE PRINCIPLE OF STUDENT-ATHLETE WELL-BEING</B> *
Intercollegiate athletics programs shall be conducted in a manner designed to protect and enhance the physical and educational well-being of student-athletes. [i](Revised: 11/21/05)i>
Not that I want(ed) to see the maximum number of games reduced, but the NCAA rejected the proposal below, which at least made some academic sense. In trying to split the baby, it is once again the student athlete who pays the price.
Source: NCAA Division I Championships/Competition Cabinet.
Proposal Category: Amendment
Topical Area: Playing and Practice Seasons
Rationale: This proposal promotes competitive equity by establishing a uniform start date for practice and competition in the championship segment. It reduces the gap between the first opportunity to compete at home for "northern" and "sunbelt" institutions. Because home teams win approximately 60 percent of their contests, the extent to which early season disparities in number and location of contests can be reduced and will enhance competitive equity. Additionally, this date provides a larger competition window than the previously approved start date of "near March 1." A reduction in the number of contests is intended to avoid compaction of the schedule with the new competition start date and should positively impact the time demands on and academic performance of baseball student-athletes. The proposal may not be ideal for all constituencies, but it is a compromise thought to be in the best interest of the sport and intended to be fair to all constituencies. The 45-day limit in the nonchampionship segment eliminates the opportunity to practice or compete during the months of December and January; however, it gives all institutions the opportunity to practice and compete with each other during the same time frame.
I would suspect that the data regarding "home-field advantage" is greatly influenced by top programs scheduling traditionally weaker programs for home series ONLY!
From the NCAA D-1 Manual:
2.14 THE PRINCIPLE GOVERNING PLAYING AND PRACTICE SEASONS *
The time required of student-athletes for participation in intercollegiate athletics shall be regulated to minimize interference with their opportunities for acquiring a quality education in a manner consistent with that afforded the general student body.
2.2 THE PRINCIPLE OF STUDENT-ATHLETE WELL-BEING</B> *
Intercollegiate athletics programs shall be conducted in a manner designed to protect and enhance the physical and educational well-being of student-athletes. [i](Revised: 11/21/05)i>
Not that I want(ed) to see the maximum number of games reduced, but the NCAA rejected the proposal below, which at least made some academic sense. In trying to split the baby, it is once again the student athlete who pays the price.
Source: NCAA Division I Championships/Competition Cabinet.
Proposal Category: Amendment
Topical Area: Playing and Practice Seasons
Rationale: This proposal promotes competitive equity by establishing a uniform start date for practice and competition in the championship segment. It reduces the gap between the first opportunity to compete at home for "northern" and "sunbelt" institutions. Because home teams win approximately 60 percent of their contests, the extent to which early season disparities in number and location of contests can be reduced and will enhance competitive equity. Additionally, this date provides a larger competition window than the previously approved start date of "near March 1." A reduction in the number of contests is intended to avoid compaction of the schedule with the new competition start date and should positively impact the time demands on and academic performance of baseball student-athletes. The proposal may not be ideal for all constituencies, but it is a compromise thought to be in the best interest of the sport and intended to be fair to all constituencies. The 45-day limit in the nonchampionship segment eliminates the opportunity to practice or compete during the months of December and January; however, it gives all institutions the opportunity to practice and compete with each other during the same time frame.
I would suspect that the data regarding "home-field advantage" is greatly influenced by top programs scheduling traditionally weaker programs for home series ONLY!
TPM,
I’m sorry if I don’t communicate in a way you completely grasp. If you ask for clarification on anything, I’ll be glad to accommodate you.
And I do listen to others, very intently. Unfortunately, not too many people like it when I parse out what they say because they fell as though I’m attacking when all I’m doing is trying to precisely answer what it is they say.
To answer your question, I don’t have a college player now, but I did for 2 years.
Most college baseball players do head back early, before official practice begins, and most of them spend their entire christmas vacation in the gym, batting cages, long tossing, that for some is about a month.
Look at the above quote. And compare it to another one you made.
We are sitting here debating playing 4-5 games a week. Do you think that our boys REALLY care, they live for playing everyday.
I took that quote as implying all players felt that way because you used “our”. Had you used “my” instead, I wouldn’t have commented.
Itsinthegame’s comment implying the players that would rather be somewhere else should go there was pretty good, and one I agree with in general. But, it seems to presuppose that every college player should be gung ho and balls to the walls because their program is making the experience a totally happy one.
Well I got some news for those of you who don’t know it yet, but not every college baseball program is on the order of a USC, UT, ASU, or any other big program. Sometimes the players actually have to get out there and mow grass, weedeat, pump water out of dugouts, clean the bleachers, dump the trash, and a million other things, as well as practice till the cows come home, sometimes for coaches who suck, not to mention take care of academic requirements. And let’s not forget that just maybe goin’ out on a date just might be something desirable to do too.
What I’m trying to say is, just because a player is in college and playing for his school, it doesn’t mean he’s having the time of his life! But you are correct in that it is a huge commitment, and one that not every player understand until they get in that position.
The following quote makes me believe that in your heart you do understand that not every player is walking on cloud nine and having the time of his life. But what you say doesn’t always reflect that.
Players will adjust, and if they can't, it will give way to players that can and really want to be there.
I’m sorry if I don’t communicate in a way you completely grasp. If you ask for clarification on anything, I’ll be glad to accommodate you.
And I do listen to others, very intently. Unfortunately, not too many people like it when I parse out what they say because they fell as though I’m attacking when all I’m doing is trying to precisely answer what it is they say.
To answer your question, I don’t have a college player now, but I did for 2 years.
Most college baseball players do head back early, before official practice begins, and most of them spend their entire christmas vacation in the gym, batting cages, long tossing, that for some is about a month.
Look at the above quote. And compare it to another one you made.
We are sitting here debating playing 4-5 games a week. Do you think that our boys REALLY care, they live for playing everyday.
I took that quote as implying all players felt that way because you used “our”. Had you used “my” instead, I wouldn’t have commented.
Itsinthegame’s comment implying the players that would rather be somewhere else should go there was pretty good, and one I agree with in general. But, it seems to presuppose that every college player should be gung ho and balls to the walls because their program is making the experience a totally happy one.
Well I got some news for those of you who don’t know it yet, but not every college baseball program is on the order of a USC, UT, ASU, or any other big program. Sometimes the players actually have to get out there and mow grass, weedeat, pump water out of dugouts, clean the bleachers, dump the trash, and a million other things, as well as practice till the cows come home, sometimes for coaches who suck, not to mention take care of academic requirements. And let’s not forget that just maybe goin’ out on a date just might be something desirable to do too.
What I’m trying to say is, just because a player is in college and playing for his school, it doesn’t mean he’s having the time of his life! But you are correct in that it is a huge commitment, and one that not every player understand until they get in that position.
The following quote makes me believe that in your heart you do understand that not every player is walking on cloud nine and having the time of his life. But what you say doesn’t always reflect that.
Players will adjust, and if they can't, it will give way to players that can and really want to be there.
quote:Originally posted by Dad0406:
And I was led to believe they were "Student Athletes". The NCAA is one of the most hypocritical organizations around!
Be careful! More posts like that from Texans will give people the idea there’s more to them than bein’ cowboys with rednecks.
But seriously, I don’t know how so many people can believe that the NCAA is this wonderful bureaucracy looking for nothing other than to help their child reach his/her dream of fame and fortune in sports, while also providing him/her with an education that will allow them to stand out in the world of high intelligentsia.
How you can read the following and say the NCAA is hypocritical?
From the NCAA website.
Core Ideology
The NCAA's core ideology consists of two notions: core purpose - the organization's reason for being - and core values - essential and enduring principles that guide an organization.
Core Purpose
Our purpose is to govern competition in a fair, safe, equitable and sportsmanlike manner, and to integrate intercollegiate athletics into higher education so that the educational experience of the student-athlete is paramount.
Core Values
The Association - through its member institutions, conferences and national office staff - shares a belief in and commitment to:
The collegiate model of athletics in which students participate as an avocation, balancing their academic, social and athletics experiences.
The highest levels of integrity and sportsmanship.
The pursuit of excellence in both academics and athletics.
The supporting role that intercollegiate athletics plays in the higher education mission and in enhancing the sense of community and strengthening the identity of member institutions.
An inclusive culture that fosters equitable participation for student-athletes and career opportunities for coaches and administrators from diverse backgrounds.
Respect for institutional autonomy and philosophical differences.
Presidential leadership of intercollegiate athletics at the campus, conference and national levels.
quote:Originally posted by Dad0406:
I would suspect that the data regarding "home-field advantage" is greatly influenced by top programs scheduling traditionally weaker programs for home series ONLY!
That plays a part in it but also by playing at home you stay in your same routine of life. That is HUGE.
quote:But seriously, I don’t know how so many people can believe that the NCAA is this wonderful bureaucracy looking for nothing other than to help their child reach his/her dream of fame and fortune in sports, while also providing him/her with an education that will allow them to stand out in the world of high intelligentsia.
Scorekeeper,
Sorry but my attempt at sarcasm was probably missed by my exclusion of one of these "
scorekeeper,
In regards to some of your comments above.
Playing baseball is not easy at any program, big or small. I have come on here and stated a few times that the first year my son played was a very trying year. The first semester he failed almost every test he took first few times. I was worried. But midway through that first fall, he realized he wouldn't want to be anyplace else and was able to adjust, turn it around and has made academic honor role since then. He also had to make adjustments in his intended major, realized that was not going to work either for HIM, so he made that adjustment. But that was his decision to make, as it will be his future if he never plays beyond college, not ours. I don't even worry about it anymore. He has proven to be responsible and uses his time wisely, though not in the beginning, he has grown up and made the adjustments well.
Halfway through first spring, he was stuggling with his game. Lots to contend with, 5 games a week, never knew when he would pitch. Lots of schoolwork, lots of pressure. But he made his adjustments. As do most of the players. If I thought for one moment he was not happy with playing and going to school, then we would have to talk about what was really important for his future. I never had to have that conversation.
I post that so that others will know that life as a college baseball player has it's ups and downs wherever you go and life at the BIG D1 is not as easy as some may think. He hasn't always had the time of his life, and struggled, trust me, and I am NOT afraid to post as such. My only intention is and has been, it is NOT easy, but players adjust. If a player is not happy with what he is doing, can't adjust, why is playing?
Yeah, there are times (like the weekends at 9am) when he doesn't feel like going to practice just like anyone else, and loads of homework and tired on sundays after a 4-5 game week. But I know that he wouldn't want to be doing anything else and that is playing college baseball.
I never said that 5 games a week was terrific, but doable, for those who are worrying about it now, it is not something you have control over, but your sons will and they will adjust. WHY, because they love the game and again, if they don't want to be on the field, whether for long practices, long bus rides, or cleaning up or raking the field, whatever, they don't belong there.
I still stand by my original statment, I will bet most of the players have no clue that there is a uniformed start date. They are too busy getting ready for thier season to begin.
In regards to some of your comments above.
Playing baseball is not easy at any program, big or small. I have come on here and stated a few times that the first year my son played was a very trying year. The first semester he failed almost every test he took first few times. I was worried. But midway through that first fall, he realized he wouldn't want to be anyplace else and was able to adjust, turn it around and has made academic honor role since then. He also had to make adjustments in his intended major, realized that was not going to work either for HIM, so he made that adjustment. But that was his decision to make, as it will be his future if he never plays beyond college, not ours. I don't even worry about it anymore. He has proven to be responsible and uses his time wisely, though not in the beginning, he has grown up and made the adjustments well.
Halfway through first spring, he was stuggling with his game. Lots to contend with, 5 games a week, never knew when he would pitch. Lots of schoolwork, lots of pressure. But he made his adjustments. As do most of the players. If I thought for one moment he was not happy with playing and going to school, then we would have to talk about what was really important for his future. I never had to have that conversation.
I post that so that others will know that life as a college baseball player has it's ups and downs wherever you go and life at the BIG D1 is not as easy as some may think. He hasn't always had the time of his life, and struggled, trust me, and I am NOT afraid to post as such. My only intention is and has been, it is NOT easy, but players adjust. If a player is not happy with what he is doing, can't adjust, why is playing?
Yeah, there are times (like the weekends at 9am) when he doesn't feel like going to practice just like anyone else, and loads of homework and tired on sundays after a 4-5 game week. But I know that he wouldn't want to be doing anything else and that is playing college baseball.
I never said that 5 games a week was terrific, but doable, for those who are worrying about it now, it is not something you have control over, but your sons will and they will adjust. WHY, because they love the game and again, if they don't want to be on the field, whether for long practices, long bus rides, or cleaning up or raking the field, whatever, they don't belong there.
I still stand by my original statment, I will bet most of the players have no clue that there is a uniformed start date. They are too busy getting ready for thier season to begin.
quote:Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
Playing baseball is not easy at any program, big or small. I have come on here and stated …
That’s great! How old was your son when he stated college? Mine was 17 by the luck of birth dates, and he was nowhere near mature enough to handle leaving home, even if it was only 80 miles down the road.
…I never had to have that conversation.
Consider yourself lucky! Here’s what happened my boy’s 2nd year. My son was an academic So, but a baseball Fr because he was redshirted as a Fr. He managed to get on the dean’s list in the fall semester, there was 1 true Fr on the Dean’s list with a 4.0 for 18 units, and another with a 2.9 for 12 units. But, as an aggregate, the 12 baseball Frs, had a combined GPA of only 1.2!
Trust me, between trying to rehab from shoulder surgery and take his classes, he also had to endure all the punishment the true Freshmen were getting because of academics! Not exactly the best situation to be in, was it.
…My only intention is and has been, it is NOT easy, but players adjust. If a player is not happy with what he is doing, can't adjust, why is playing?
Do you think everyone’s situation is exactly the same and because of that they all realize they’d be better off hanging up the cleats all at the same time?
I won’t go into my son’s story other than to say he gave his heart, soul, and health for the team because he wanted to play ball. He did make the adjustments, but he wasn’t happy very often, and neither were the majority of players on the team. Granted it was just one team, but I assure you, those kids weren’t alone.
… But I know that he wouldn't want to be doing anything else and that is playing college baseball.
Believe me, I sincerely hope that’s true, but you can’t say its true for every college player. Some don’t know anything else to do.
…WHY, because they love the game and again, if they don't want to be on the field, whether for long practices, long bus rides, or cleaning up or raking the field, whatever, they don't belong there. Again, some don’t know anything else to do! You make it sound so easy for kids who have been playing for 10-15 years and dedicated their lives to it, to just stop. But it doesn’t work that way! There are a lot of reasons players might be unhappy.
I still stand by my original statment, I will bet most of the players have no clue that there is a uniformed start date. They are too busy getting ready for thier season to begin.
[color:BLUE] Here’s your original statement on this thread.
I have one that plays 5 games a week, it's not easy, but dooable. They begin mid february, and always began end of february until the ACC added two more teams. School ends early May and I know mine prefers playing for many weeks with no classes to worry about, something that will most likely happen in most programs.
I have no problem with that statement. But it was pointed out that the cost to the program of paying for the player’s room and board was very high. Will every school be able to eat that expense?
You may be right that most players don’t know, or likely even care about when the season starts. But evidently, there are a lot of folks who think that’s gonna change.
Scorekeeper,
Not sure how to respond, but I now understand the reason for your responses in your post. I am sorry that things did not work out for your son.
My son was 18, 800 miles away from home, friends and family. As stated, it showed the first semester. He adjusted, it wasn't easy but he did. He is now a true junior, no redshirting allowed for him. His coarse load has been 16-18 credits per semester, with this one being 15.
There are many players that do hang up their cleats and realize there is life after baseball. Not because they have not done well, but because they have established other priorities. In fact, I think most college baseball players realize that about a year or two into their coursework. They now have to become more focused on their major.
4-5 games a week, and I do believe my sons team combined GPA is 2.8. I think the highest GPA is 3.8. Its dooable. If that was the combined GPA for the freshman, coach was not doing his job. JMO.
College baseball and its demands is not for everyone.
I cannot tell you about the arrangements for other schools after school is over, good recruiting question though.
Freshman year mine remained in the dorm and ate cafeteria food. He now has his own apartment which is NOT paid for by the school, though he is allowed to eat 3 meals a day in the cafeteria. Players move in with each other if they have to. We were told that in recruitinbg. What do other players do for remainder of season and post season? For many schools the college baseball season extends past school. This has nothing to do with the new uniformed start date, NCAA post season has not changed.
The topic is HOW MUCH WILL THIS AFFECT THE PLAYERS?
My answer, not as much as some think. JMO.
Not sure how to respond, but I now understand the reason for your responses in your post. I am sorry that things did not work out for your son.
My son was 18, 800 miles away from home, friends and family. As stated, it showed the first semester. He adjusted, it wasn't easy but he did. He is now a true junior, no redshirting allowed for him. His coarse load has been 16-18 credits per semester, with this one being 15.
There are many players that do hang up their cleats and realize there is life after baseball. Not because they have not done well, but because they have established other priorities. In fact, I think most college baseball players realize that about a year or two into their coursework. They now have to become more focused on their major.
4-5 games a week, and I do believe my sons team combined GPA is 2.8. I think the highest GPA is 3.8. Its dooable. If that was the combined GPA for the freshman, coach was not doing his job. JMO.
College baseball and its demands is not for everyone.
I cannot tell you about the arrangements for other schools after school is over, good recruiting question though.
Freshman year mine remained in the dorm and ate cafeteria food. He now has his own apartment which is NOT paid for by the school, though he is allowed to eat 3 meals a day in the cafeteria. Players move in with each other if they have to. We were told that in recruitinbg. What do other players do for remainder of season and post season? For many schools the college baseball season extends past school. This has nothing to do with the new uniformed start date, NCAA post season has not changed.
The topic is HOW MUCH WILL THIS AFFECT THE PLAYERS?
My answer, not as much as some think. JMO.
TPM,
There’s no reason for you or anyone else to feel sorry. It was just that things didn’t work like we were told they would.
I sure didn’t want my son to get redshirted, but what can you do if you’re injured? Its kinda silly to lose a year of eligibility when you can’t physically play. One of the other local JUCOs however, historically redshirts anywhere from 15 to 30 players. They do that to tie the players up so the other schools won’t get them.
The reasons players hang it up are many and varied. They range from lack of skills to compete, to lack of funds, to politics, and all stops in between. I wish it weren’t so, but I’m afraid your vision that MOST baseball players suddenly seeing the light and concentrating on academics is a bit optimistic. If anyone knows the real numbers, I’d be interested to see how many college ball players get any kind of a degree.
Its great to hear you boy is doing so well! I applaud him. But please don’t assume that’s the case in every school for every player.
Yeah, I thought a lot of the problems with grades was on the coach, but in truth, he did offer tutoring help. One of my pet peeves was, the players weren’t supposed to take any classes on normal playing days, night classes, or weekend classes, and they also could only take classes that ended before 1PM in the afternoon. The theory was, they wanted the players to miss the fewest class hours possible.
But the problem with that was, the school wouldn’t give them any kind of priority for getting classes they needed, so they’d often need to take classes that made them miss practice, and that didn’t get players more PT.
You’re right, college baseball and its demands are not for everyone, but the demands are different everywhere. In NAIA schools they only play 7 inning games. Doesn’t sound like much, but when you figure it out, that’s like playing 10 less games in a scheduled 50+ games. That makes it easier on everyone.
About the playing after school’s over for the semester, I don’t know either. but I’ll tell you this, my son and his roommates had to lay out a total of over $1,500 for their apartment and utilities, no to mention the extra food, just because they had to start a week early and end 2 weeks after school was over. Those companies that lease apartments aren’t nearly as kind and understanding as school dorm people. ;-)
Shoot, the players on my boy’s squad would have killed to get free cafeteria food! About a third lived at home with their parents, but the rest were having to survive off the land.
While you believe the change in dates will have little to no effect, I predict something different. I guess we’ll see in about 4 years.
There’s no reason for you or anyone else to feel sorry. It was just that things didn’t work like we were told they would.
I sure didn’t want my son to get redshirted, but what can you do if you’re injured? Its kinda silly to lose a year of eligibility when you can’t physically play. One of the other local JUCOs however, historically redshirts anywhere from 15 to 30 players. They do that to tie the players up so the other schools won’t get them.
The reasons players hang it up are many and varied. They range from lack of skills to compete, to lack of funds, to politics, and all stops in between. I wish it weren’t so, but I’m afraid your vision that MOST baseball players suddenly seeing the light and concentrating on academics is a bit optimistic. If anyone knows the real numbers, I’d be interested to see how many college ball players get any kind of a degree.
Its great to hear you boy is doing so well! I applaud him. But please don’t assume that’s the case in every school for every player.
Yeah, I thought a lot of the problems with grades was on the coach, but in truth, he did offer tutoring help. One of my pet peeves was, the players weren’t supposed to take any classes on normal playing days, night classes, or weekend classes, and they also could only take classes that ended before 1PM in the afternoon. The theory was, they wanted the players to miss the fewest class hours possible.
But the problem with that was, the school wouldn’t give them any kind of priority for getting classes they needed, so they’d often need to take classes that made them miss practice, and that didn’t get players more PT.
You’re right, college baseball and its demands are not for everyone, but the demands are different everywhere. In NAIA schools they only play 7 inning games. Doesn’t sound like much, but when you figure it out, that’s like playing 10 less games in a scheduled 50+ games. That makes it easier on everyone.
About the playing after school’s over for the semester, I don’t know either. but I’ll tell you this, my son and his roommates had to lay out a total of over $1,500 for their apartment and utilities, no to mention the extra food, just because they had to start a week early and end 2 weeks after school was over. Those companies that lease apartments aren’t nearly as kind and understanding as school dorm people. ;-)
Shoot, the players on my boy’s squad would have killed to get free cafeteria food! About a third lived at home with their parents, but the rest were having to survive off the land.
While you believe the change in dates will have little to no effect, I predict something different. I guess we’ll see in about 4 years.
quote:In NAIA schools they only play 7 inning games. Doesn’t sound like much, but when you figure it out, that’s like playing 10 less games in a scheduled 50+ games. That makes it easier on everyone.
Most NAIA schools on this side of the country anyway, play many to most of their games as double headers... so that's 14 innings/day. I just looked at my son's and two other top rated NAIA's and they average 54-56 games a season. The advantage for NAIA is that they carry larger rosters for the most part than DI or DIIs as most have a JV team. As Grateful discussed earlier on, developing more pitchers is key for playing more games in a shorter time frame. Those that aren't pitching much on varsity can get time on JV to develop and contribute if needed on varisty that current year or the next year. NAIA playoffs begin the end of April... some started last weekend (southern) and my son's start's on the 17th. Again, the depth and ability to bring a large number of pitchers along more slowly is a big advantage for NAIA IMO.