Is something wrong with my son? I feel like I'm missing something

@Ster posted:

1) He shouldn't be on a travel team sitting behind two top 50 catchers.

2) What are the two of you doing to reach out to schools that he has a legit shot at being signed?  Are you sending film to realistic colleges and Universities?   

3) Have you had a conversation with his travel coach to see if they are doing anything on his behalf?

4) This is a new era of College baseball recruiting.  There aren't going to be as many high school kids recruited now that the transfer portal is available to coaches.   I know for a fact that this was a factor in my 2024 RHP not getting an offer from a school he had targeted.   They told his travel ball coach that in years past they wouldn't have passed upon my son, but that now they want to hold onto the spot for possible transfer portal players they are considering.   

(1) Yes, this has become a problem. We joined this prominent team two summers ago and have gone to WWBA with them for both of those summers--this being the third. To be honest, he wanted to compete for the starting spot with the other two--but the opportunity never arose. It was also a well known team that was playing in all the "right" tournaments. We were living in Oklahoma and our team wasn't looking to be in "big" tournaments out of state, so we joined a team in Texas that prioritized big tournaments. As it turned out, those other two catchers were and remain excellent (one committed to LSU the other to Vandy) and my son never played behind the plate while with this team. Of course, he catches a ton with his HS team and local travel team, but at the big summer tournaments--he's a DH. I think the constant theme in everyone's response on this thread is that I need to address this issue first with his coach. WWBA 17U comes up in three weeks so we'll talk soon.

(2) We have done the letter writing campaign--but to your point, were they places he had a "legit shot"? That was/remains tougher to tell. My son has been somewhat inconsistent in his play but has had great runs and has good measurements. I'm sure given all the information we've discussed he'd be very easy to find for any of you on the PG/PBR/Fieldlevel/NCSA type circuit. His rankings (which I KNOW have limited meaning and are SUBJECTIVE) have been very good. I only discuss rankings because they at least give one some sense of where your kid might be at. I mentioned I also played at a high level so I'd like to think I can be critical even with my own kid. But as to the rankings--when we were in Oklahoma, he was the top ranked catcher for his class year by PBR and PG. When we moved to Texas, PG put him at #3 for Texas (2024)/PBR never updated. The metrics though are solid, and he works hard constantly in the weight room/track and on the field. His speed has blossomed this last year, where he has gone from being a "slow catcher" to having a recorded sub-7 with PBR (6.98) and 7.02 with PG. For a kid over 200, he seems to have gotten pretty fast. I say this to give you a background as to my thought process for which college would be a "legit shot". With his measurables and performance, I think he is a D1 kid. Negatives: He has some awkwardness to his movements behind the plate and his muscular frame draws some concern regarding long term mobility; His arm is not top of the heap (currently 80mph Catchers velo), not bad, but he strikes me as a mid-major/bottom P5 catcher. I actually think Pepperdine is his best fit. Mid-major, great weather, probably not drawn into the transfer portal/UIL grinder nearly as much as the SEC or even as much as the PAC-12. And I think they are still in the development business in the smaller conferences (as opposed to the "win now or next man up" as in the SEC). We have communicated all of his updated metrics and grades to Pepperdine, Texas Tech, OSU, Texas, and several others. These were all the top of his list but as there has been no response from the big dogs, we started paring it down. Those emails were descriptive and sent schedules and links to videos. Pretty much have limited these emails because he wasn't hearing anything back. 

(3) This is a problem right now. This is partially why I hired the Agent, who has been great. He's a former MLB'er and although we just recently hired him, has seemed to already be helpful. No, I am not made of money. Yes, I have made mistakes on this journey. I do not know if sports agents are the right answer, but for me, it has been good thus far. If anyone wants to know more, please DM.

(4) 100% facts....

My son, also a catcher but 2023, was in similar spot as your son last summer, but with not as good measurables as your son.  He had a mid-major show serious interest beginning of last summer that ended up ghosting him and went with a different 2023 catcher.  The mid-major he ended up committing to saw him play at Jupiter last fall.  The common thread with all the schools that showed interest was they saw him play behind the plate.  His metrics and recommendations from his coaches may have put him on their list to look at.  But it's seeing him play behind the plate that ultimately generated the interest.  The 2 schools that showed the most interest didn't even have him on their list, they just saw him play in one of the games they happen to be watching.

My son also changed travel team after last summer and it was absolutely the best decision he made.  He's been with the same group since 7 yrs old.  That group of boys transitioned as a team to an high-level academy after 12u.  We love the coaching staff and the team.  Unlike your son, my son gets a lot of playing time behind the plate as one of the main catchers.  The coaching staff loves him and tried to get his name to their college contacts.  But for whatever reason, nothing was working out.  We don't understand why also (your title for this thread resonated with me as I've asked this same question lots of time).  It could be that the colleges the coaches have contact with is not a good match for my son.

My son moved to another team his senior year as half of his HS varsity teammates plays on this travel team, and their practices are at his HS field (a lot closer to our house).  We have a good relationship with this coach.  It so happens that his new travel coach has a different set of college coach contacts, and mostly mid major type coaches (while his previous travel team has more contacts with P5 schools).  Even then, the mid major that ended up recruiting my son wasn't even contacted by his travel coach.  He just happened to watch the game in Jupiter when my son was catching.  What did make a big difference is that his travel coach hit it off with the college coach, and they chatted a full hour, not just about my son but about life and faith.  They traded lots of text messages and calls after that.

So to sum it up:

• As a catcher, he needs to play, not just DH.  I can't tell you how many catchers we know that have amazing measurables, but doesn't help their team win with their play behind the plate.
• Maybe find a different travel team to address the playing time issue, and to find another coaching staff with a different set of contacts in the college coaching world (maybe geared more towards mid major, D2, and/or Juco.
• Yes, transfer portal and extra covid year absolutely has an impact.  It's not too late yet. He may get more interested end of summer or fall.

One concern from your post is this: "He has some awkwardness to his movements behind the plate and his muscular frame draws some concern regarding long term mobility".  Maybe get a very realistic assessment of your son's future behind the plate?  If there's legit concern, maybe market him as a first baseman or even OF?  I think he plays these positions based on what I saw in his PG profile.

I hesitated in mentioning this in my post above but figure I might as well throw this in as someone already alluded to this earlier already.  How confident are you that there are no negative perspective or feedback regarding your son from a character or work ethic standpoint?  If the college coaches call his current travel coach, will they say that this kid has amazing character, work ethic, and leadership quality?  Have you checked all of your son's social media and confirm that there's nothing crazy out there?  I personally know of several kids that have great measurable but really bad character, have social media posts that makes most people cringe, and several DUI incidents in their record.  Lastly, how do you behave during the games and showcases?  Make sure you are not acting like a crazy parent or trying to talk to the college coaches scouting the games.

I'm not saying anything of these are happening with your son.  But need to throw these out there, not just for your sake, but for all the other lurkers trying to learn from our experiences.

Oh sure! No problem asking at all. I read the Matheny Manifesto years ago and subscribe to it. I don't make a sound at games/showcases. I was more vocal when he was younger and I didn't know better. I don't always go to his games/showcases. My wife and I split the duties. I cannot possibly go to all his games and keep my job--and I have four other kids as well. I have never talked to scouts. I only have talked to David Esquer when we are at Stanford, he used to be my coach so we talked about the old days and some old players, I didn't bring up my son. I'm not pushy with any of this, I just try and make sure he's present at all the high visibility events and do some of the leg work in the background...like conversing with you wonderful people!

As far as his social media, he is pretty open with all of it. I can see his Instagram and his Twitter (mostly baseball). He has a Snapchat and I must admit, I don't know much about that one. But he's a good kid, no problems at all in or out of school, went to Boys State in Austin two weeks ago, no run-ins with the law, 1260 SAT/3.71. It's not a red flag issue on his end, not unless there is a complete other side to my kid that I am unaware of, and I can't imagine that being the case.

I should mention one other thing, I was a Marine and then a Fed after that, so we have moved a lot--I cannot help but think this did not help much in his journey. He's at his third High School now, but I am in the private sector, so no more moving.   

@atlnon posted:

My son, also a catcher but 2023, was in similar spot as your son last summer, but with not as good measurables as your son.  He had a mid-major show serious interest beginning of last summer that ended up ghosting him and went with a different 2023 catcher.  The mid-major he ended up committing to saw him play at Jupiter last fall.  The common thread with all the schools that showed interest was they saw him play behind the plate.  His metrics and recommendations from his coaches may have put him on their list to look at.  But it's seeing him play behind the plate that ultimately generated the interest.  The 2 schools that showed the most interest didn't even have him on their list, they just saw him play in one of the games they happen to be watching.

My son also changed travel team after last summer and it was absolutely the best decision he made.  He's been with the same group since 7 yrs old.  That group of boys transitioned as a team to an high-level academy after 12u.  We love the coaching staff and the team.  Unlike your son, my son gets a lot of playing time behind the plate as one of the main catchers.  The coaching staff loves him and tried to get his name to their college contacts.  But for whatever reason, nothing was working out.  We don't understand why also (your title for this thread resonated with me as I've asked this same question lots of time).  It could be that the colleges the coaches have contact with is not a good match for my son.

My son moved to another team his senior year as half of his HS varsity teammates plays on this travel team, and their practices are at his HS field (a lot closer to our house).  We have a good relationship with this coach.  It so happens that his new travel coach has a different set of college coach contacts, and mostly mid major type coaches (while his previous travel team has more contacts with P5 schools).  Even then, the mid major that ended up recruiting my son wasn't even contacted by his travel coach.  He just happened to watch the game in Jupiter when my son was catching.  What did make a big difference is that his travel coach hit it off with the college coach, and they chatted a full hour, not just about my son but about life and faith.  They traded lots of text messages and calls after that.

So to sum it up:

• As a catcher, he needs to play, not just DH.  I can't tell you how many catchers we know that have amazing measurables, but doesn't help their team win with their play behind the plate.
• Maybe find a different travel team to address the playing time issue, and to find another coaching staff with a different set of contacts in the college coaching world (maybe geared more towards mid major, D2, and/or Juco.
• Yes, transfer portal and extra covid year absolutely has an impact.  It's not too late yet. He may get more interested end of summer or fall.

One concern from your post is this: "He has some awkwardness to his movements behind the plate and his muscular frame draws some concern regarding long term mobility".  Maybe get a very realistic assessment of your son's future behind the plate?  If there's legit concern, maybe market him as a first baseman or even OF?  I think he plays these positions based on what I saw in his PG profile.

Money advice, thank you. As to the last paragraph, that is my best impression of giving a negative assessment of my son. It is true though, I see some movements in his catching that still give me pause but could be developed...time is short. Otherwise, he can play OF. His running has improved to where that is now realistic at a higher level. I hate to throw it in on catching though, he has done a lot of training to get to where he is currently.

Giff;

Why not apply to UC Berkley.

Great school. Our local player Andrew Vaughan played at UC now with the Chicago White Sox.

We have conducted "clinics" at UC. There is new Coach at St Marys in Moraga.

Bob

As I mentioned earlier, while I believe there is still reason to be optimistic there are a few things that need to be addressed. He needs to have a conversation with his travel coach. Now. Not at WWBA, not next week, not this fall. He needs to send his coach a text tonight and set up a call. He needs to ask two questions

a. What level of college baseball they see him fitting in at.

b. His role on the team

Your son needs to go into that conversation with an open mind, ready to be offended and knocked down a peg. Your son also needs to be ready to push back if they don't give clear, concise, straight to the point answers. And he needs to be prepared to leave if it doesn't go his way, or prepared to step up if they are willing to give him a more consistent role.

What should have happened already is your son made a list, they crossed schools off and you worked with what was left and the feedback from the remaining schools is how you proceed. If that hasn't happened it needs to. Your son needs to say I'm interested in A/B/C, can you reach out to them for me.

If they give answers like "we'll see", "the portal", or any other excuses, they are useless to him. You are a paying customer. Hotels, airfare, time off work. They need to work for you. If they are not capable of reaching out to schools on his behalf or able to provide honest feedback what are you paying for? You come to a consensus that these are the schools you should be looking into, get feedback from said schools, and then either proceed or pivot based on the feedback.

Then you ask about his role on the team. If there is no future with him behind the plate, that's fine but you need to find a new team. If they can work something out where they all rotate then go ahead, but he needs to catch and he needs to catch in front of schools that he can play at and are interested in him.

Mine played for high profile teams with multiple kids drafted, P5s, etc. Each catcher was responsible for like 5-6 pitchers. The catching schedule was released with the pitching schedule. 3 P5 catchers all split time mostly evenly, no complaints, two drafted out of HS.

I remember when we joined the one we sat down with the coach and he told us exactly what the plan was. He said if things weren't playing out the way we them wanted to and he didn't speak up then he didn't think he'd survive with a college coach.

Us parents aren’t always the most objective lot, but you sound informed, realistic, and grounded. Based on your son’s metrics and opportunities I have no doubt this will end well, it’s just the stress of parent who wants the put his kid in the best situation for success. Not to mention the added pressure of some of his peers closing on this portion of the journey.

There's something @ABSORBER says above that resonates for me, "I mean your son". I get from your tone, that you're a get things done type (me too, I get paid to make things happen), but I would recommend making sure you understand what he really wants and why - without the possibility of him parroting what he knows you want. Some kids struggle with this, but IMO it's critical they own the choices to avoid possible future regrets.

I also like the comment "show up with a chip on his shoulder". My son wasn't recruited in HS, he used that as fuel in  Juco. He was told he'd he'd never be a starter at Arkansas by Boston's head of scouting, and he became their Friday night starter. Of all the kids on his HS showcase team, I don't think any would have picked him to pitch in a MLB playoff game - yet he has. Being overlooked can be a powerful motivator - lemons and lemonade is no joke...

Enjoy the journey, you're in the sweet spot for parents - you just don't know it yet. The parental stressing part never goes away, at least it hasn't for me.

Good luck to your son, this season and the many to come!

@Consultant posted:

Giff;

Why not apply to UC Berkley.

Great school. Our local player Andrew Vaughan played at UC now with the Chicago White Sox.

We have conducted "clinics" at UC. There is new Coach at St Marys in Moraga.

Bob

Actually where I played college ball! Go Bears! I’m very familiar with Andy Vaughn, absolute stud. I played back in the day with Xavier Nady and Mike Tonis. We could hit, but there was no one to stop the bleeding when it went bad defensively. I think the HC is Mike Neu now, I broke up a no-no he was pitching in the California JC championship back in 97 before I ended up at Cal. I was playing for LA Harbor at the time, HC was the great Tony Bloomfield!

Giff;

Nady, Tonis, Neu all played in our Goodwill Series Int'l. and Area Code Games in Long Beach. Murphy Sua also coached at Harbor. The California J.C.'s are separate from National J.C. Great coaching and players.

Bob

Did you know about the other 2 catchers when your son joined this team?  There's really no need to have 3 catchers at that age.  2 should be able to handle it.  Not to be mean, but it sounds to me like if they took on your son knowing they had the two other kids already on the team that they were using him for his $$$.  Fortunately for us, my son never played on teams that did that....but there are plenty of them out there.  Hopefully things work out for your son.  Good luck!

@Buckeye 2015 posted:

Did you know about the other 2 catchers when your son joined this team?  There's really no need to have 3 catchers at that age.  2 should be able to handle it.  Not to be mean, but it sounds to me like if they took on your son knowing they had the two other kids already on the team that they were using him for his $$$.  Fortunately for us, my son never played on teams that did that....but there are plenty of them out there.  Hopefully things work out for your son.  Good luck!

My son's travel team typically have 3 catchers.  But all 3 catchers can also play other positions.  I see the value of this during the days where there are 3 bracket games.

@atlnon posted:

My son's travel team typically have 3 catchers.  But all 3 catchers can also play other positions.  I see the value of this during the days where there are 3 bracket games.

We had the same situation up until about 14u.....but once you're at 16u or 17u having 3 top level catchers is overkill....there aren't enough innings to go around...especially if there are coaches wanting to see a particular kid

@Giff, I believe these are the factors that have created your current situation: 1) being in small town Oklahoma up till now; 2) relocating your family right before your son’s senior year; 3) lack of playing time on your travel team; and 4) the awkward movements behind the plate that you mentioned. There is nothing you can do about items 1 & 2. That is life happening. But you can do something about 3 & 4. Item 3 has been well discussed. But item 4 hasn’t and I’m here to tell you that issue matters a lot. More than it should. D1 schools rarely (I mean hardly ever) recruit players that have any unnatural, awkward, or unnecessary movements in the way they play the game. Even if the results are there, if a player looks unconventional getting it done, that will scare most recruiters away. There are things that can be done to help the situation but it does take some time. Good players that have an issue like this often have to prove themselves over a longer period of time before receiving an offer(s). IMO your son falls into this category and he hasn’t been in the right place, for long enough, to prove himself enough to convince the schools you want to offer. As a result that’s probably going to result in JuCo being your best option. The good thing about JuCo is you can do as many private workouts/tryouts as you want. That’s my 2 cents.

Update: I was able to get him onto a different team that will be at WWBA. That took some time and some delicacy with current coach, but he understood. The coach that’s getting him seems very nice, and I am grateful. They have catchers so he’ll still split time—but it’s a long week at WWBA so that’s no problem. And he ensured we will get the games started in advance so I can let the colleges know. Appreciate all the advice here.

As to JuCo route vs D1? I feel like that is a decision that might be made on its own. If Texas walks up to Jon at WWBA or PG National and Steve Rodriguez says he wants my son to start at catcher for the next 4 years with a full boat, then the answer changes quickly. While that scenario is unlikely, he does seem to be headed towards some kind of offer so we’ll have to weigh that unmaterialized possibility up against the JuCo route.

I just want to thank you all for assisting in getting this travel ball situation squared away before I missed out on making that change. It was an important change and I don’t think i burned any bridges either—which makes me happy. I’m grateful. We’ll see where it goes.

@Giff posted:

Update: I was able to get him onto a different team that will be at WWBA. That took some time and some delicacy with current coach, but he understood. The coach that’s getting him seems very nice, and I am grateful. They have catchers so he’ll still split time—but it’s a long week at WWBA so that’s no problem. And he ensured we will get the games started in advance so I can let the colleges know. Appreciate all the advice here.

As to JuCo route vs D1? I feel like that is a decision that might be made on its own. If Texas walks up to Jon at WWBA or PG National and Steve Rodriguez says he wants my son to start at catcher for the next 4 years with a full boat, then the answer changes quickly. While that scenario is unlikely, he does seem to be headed towards some kind of offer so we’ll have to weigh that unmaterialized possibility up against the JuCo route.

I just want to thank you all for assisting in getting this travel ball situation squared away before I missed out on making that change. It was an important change and I don’t think i burned any bridges either—which makes me happy. I’m grateful. We’ll see where it goes.

I think that you made a wise decision.  It will be important for your son to reach out to the schools that he has traction with and let them know exactly which games he will be featured for this new team.   Communication is key at this point.

One other thing that I think you need to consider.   I believe that you and your son really need to find out which school he can realistically target.  If Texas (just using that name as an example) has already made up their mind about their 2024 class then there is no point in wasting your time trying to persuade them to consider your son.   I think that at this point in time, it is an acceptable question to ask assistant coaches about where they stand with their 2024 class.   Some teams are going to be finished with that class.  Others however, may be losing guys in the draft (both on the roster and in recruits), losing players in the transfer portal, may be uncertain about who they are transferring in etc... 

Also, we are getting to a point now where D1 coaches aren't hesitating to drop players that have been committed to them for a while.  I know of several 2024 guys who's parents have told me that they are somewhat seeing the writing on the wall about their son's commitment to "X" school.   There are some players on some Power 5 commitment list today that very well may not be there in August.   The era of gentlemen obligation with coaching staffs is over.   There are plenty of kids that have been committed since they were 15 years of age, that are hearing, "just haven't developed like we had hoped."   

@Giff posted:

Update: I was able to get him onto a different team that will be at WWBA. That took some time and some delicacy with current coach, but he understood. The coach that’s getting him seems very nice, and I am grateful. They have catchers so he’ll still split time—but it’s a long week at WWBA so that’s no problem. And he ensured we will get the games started in advance so I can let the colleges know. Appreciate all the advice here.

As to JuCo route vs D1? I feel like that is a decision that might be made on its own. If Texas walks up to Jon at WWBA or PG National and Steve Rodriguez says he wants my son to start at catcher for the next 4 years with a full boat, then the answer changes quickly. While that scenario is unlikely, he does seem to be headed towards some kind of offer so we’ll have to weigh that unmaterialized possibility up against the JuCo route.

I just want to thank you all for assisting in getting this travel ball situation squared away before I missed out on making that change. It was an important change and I don’t think i burned any bridges either—which makes me happy. I’m grateful. We’ll see where it goes.

If by Texas you mean Texas Hold 'em and by full boat you mean something like Aces over 8's then maybe, otherwise the entire sentence might be a bit unlikely.....

@Giff posted:

Update: I was able to get him onto a different team that will be at WWBA. That took some time and some delicacy with current coach, but he understood. The coach that’s getting him seems very nice, and I am grateful. They have catchers so he’ll still split time—but it’s a long week at WWBA so that’s no problem. And he ensured we will get the games started in advance so I can let the colleges know. Appreciate all the advice here.

As to JuCo route vs D1? I feel like that is a decision that might be made on its own. If Texas walks up to Jon at WWBA or PG National and Steve Rodriguez says he wants my son to start at catcher for the next 4 years with a full boat, then the answer changes quickly. While that scenario is unlikely, he does seem to be headed towards some kind of offer so we’ll have to weigh that unmaterialized possibility up against the JuCo route.

I just want to thank you all for assisting in getting this travel ball situation squared away before I missed out on making that change. It was an important change and I don’t think i burned any bridges either—which makes me happy. I’m grateful. We’ll see where it goes.

I think he'll probably get more than a few offers this summer. Especially if he has decent National Showcase metrics. He's already got a 9.5 rating (which by itself may not mean much--and I'm just echoing what others say even though I don't agree) but combine that with a 9.5 (or maybe 10 after PG National) then that is something. It will definitely get him looks so good on you for getting him playing time in his primary position at the WWBA!

Your son is not alone. His goal at the PG National shout be to outwork everyone else, especially the other uncommitted catchers who are attending (there will be grade 9 and below plus ungraded attendees as well). Here are all the 2024 catchers graded 9.5 or higher:

All but two of the committed players are P5 (UCONN and HPU). Most are attending the PG National -- all were invited (probably all 9.5+ get invited). Note there is at least one grade 10 who is uncommitted. I'm sure he's had offers...

I felt strongly your son would get some offers sometime this summer and after compiling this list I am even more convinced.

Update #2 (PG National and WWBA 17U Nat'l Championship):

It has been a whirlwind since last I posted. Unfortunately no great news but definitely some interesting experiences to share with my fellow parents/friends so here goes:

PG National was ok. The event itself was well organized and really neat to be at Chase Field but my son's performance in the gameplay was rough offensively. I'll start by saying that his metrics were his best ever--pretty much across the board: 6.95 in the 60-yard dash with a 1.68 10-yard split. 1.94 POP with all accurate throws, last one from his knees was right on the money. 106 Exit Velo which is the very top of the 2024 class (he's tied with two others). His BP was not good by his standard--They only got one round of about 10 and he hit a few hard, but 3 or 4 foul balls kind of soured the round. The follow-on games saw him overmatched. There was a kid who was 6-7 or 8 from TN throwing in the mid-90's and most of the boys there had never seen anything like that (I think he hit 97 at one point and had good command). There were definitely some studs there but regardless, he didn't do much to garner attention. 0-4 or 5 with a couple of groundouts and a couple of flyouts--he hit one hard on the ground to 2B, 97 EV, and ate up the second basemen, then stole second. His catching was good, hosed one kid, one kid stole. There were only two games at the end.

In the aftermath the Twins, Guardians and Brewers scouts' reached out and asked for his schedule and the Twins had him fill out a questionnaire. We also received a message from U of Cincinnati, U of Alabama, AFA (again), Naval Academy (again), and Pepperdine. Alabama was out of nowhere, asked for the WWBA schedule and haven't heard anything else.

At WWBA, as I told you last week, we got him onto a new team and things started out very promising. He went 1-3 in the opening game with a solid oppo double at an important moment. The next day 1-3 again with another double, this time AFA was there and reached out after the game and told our advisor that they were out on my son. They liked him but didn't love him. Turns out they were only there for the first two at-bats, a K and a ground out. I told my son this game is, if nothing else, defined by "timing"-- whether that's to time the hitting of a certain pitch, hitting with runners on, or hitting when a college coach is present, it's always a matter of timing. Hell, life is about timing--but I digress.

After the third game, where he had another well hit double, things fell off. He just went cold again offensively. I can't explain it. I think the pressure is sitting on his chest right now, I wish I could help calm him down, he acts fine but I can't help but think he's got to be feeling all this--4 years from now I'll get him a beer : ) On the other hand, I thought his glove work this week was very good--we'll see. Now, the waiting game.

Oh, lastly, I should say that he did get an offer from US Merchant Marine Academy which is a DIII. My son was at the AFA camp and the Coach said he saw him there--their HC is fantastic, I wish I could have recorded that Zoom call. Baseball, America, fishing, the military, and an infectious passion for life. My kind of guy. My son is also talking to U of Chicago who was at the Stanford Camp. Both Chicago and USMMA started the Zoom call by saying, "we know you're probably talking to a ton of D1's but we want you to consider..." We didn't have the heart to tell them that we aren't talking to any. I found it odd that they assumed we were given my concerns I've laid out to y'all but apparently these DIII coaches saw something in him.

I do want to say that I believe my son is ranked too high by PG and this can create problems, certainly when it comes to expectations. I mean this as someone who loves my son very much and respects his game. However, I feel like many of these new organizations have found a way to place an overemphasis on metrics, and make that lucrative. For someone like me, who even played baseball at a high level, I think I fell for it--and why wouldn't I? It was some other baseball persons evaluation and it had statistical merit. Even those on this board who were throwing shade at me, have only done so because they assume I am inflating my sons metrics--some of you have looked him up and can see I am obviously not. Come meet my kid if you'd like, he's really nice. Hi metrics reflect a MLB quality--his game play, in my opinion, reflects someone who may one day play D1 but would benefit greatly from JuCo. His timing at the plate, or perhaps something mental, make his level of play lower than where his metrics suggest he should be. That has become clear as Area Codes scouts, NTIS evaluators, college coaches and higher level evaluators have consistently passed on my son. It just sucks to be on this end though-- I am telling you, he is a grinder. That kid lives to improve his mind/body/spirit...unfortunately that doesn't always translate into base hits.   

My son loves the Naval Academy at this point. He did a week at their Summer Seminar (unrelated to baseball) and fell in love with the culture and campus. My prayer is that Coach Ristano (just came to Navy from ND and then Florida State) saw enough good at WWBA to give him a call.

Thanks for going on this journey with me...

@ABSORBER posted:

Your son is not alone. His goal at the PG National shout be to outwork everyone else, especially the other uncommitted catchers who are attending (there will be grade 9 and below plus ungraded attendees as well). Here are all the 2024 catchers graded 9.5 or higher:

All but two of the committed players are P5 (UCONN and HPU). Most are attending the PG National -- all were invited (probably all 9.5+ get invited). Note there is at least one grade 10 who is uncommitted. I'm sure he's had offers...

I felt strongly your son would get some offers sometime this summer and after compiling this list I am even more convinced.

This is a most well informed and thought out reply, I appreciate it. I hope to see him get married up with a good school soon!

@Giff, that is a very honest post that indicates a healthy perspective on your son’s situation. I have some comments that may or may not be helpful. But I’m going to make them in hopes that they are. Here goes. I agree with you that your son is ranked too high by the scouting services. Their evaluations are mostly done by non-baseball people that pretend to be knowledgeable. They aren’t capable of evaluating mechanics and movements so they lean heavily on metrics and their rankings reflect that. Much of the public is misled by their narrative and even a lot of people on this board believe (or did at one time) that reaching certain metric milestones is certain to get you recruited. Your son is living proof that it’s not true. I have seen video of your son and so have some coaches that I trust. I believe that your son has a lot of potential but he just hasn’t realized it yet. Because of that I would advise against the service academies. Even Merchant Marines. You don’t go to service academies to play sports. You go there to serve your country. I expect big gains from your son during his freshman year in college. If that were to happen at a service academy I don’t know that he would be able to leave and take advantage of it. I think the JuCo route makes the most sense. But not at Amarillo College. Best of luck!

@Giff, I'm going to agree and disagree with @adbono. Yes, you do choose a service academy because you have a desire to serve your country. What a great way to serve AND play D1 baseball! The same can be said of players who choose an Ivy school (or any other high academic school). You make this choice because you want the very best education (and take that with a grain of salt--you attend for the connections) and an opportunity to play the sport you love (and serve your country in the case of a service academy--not to mention college paid for by Uncle Sam). You use baseball to get what you want. There is nothing wrong with this. Take the draft that just completed. Almost all of these players will be out of baseball in the next 2-8 years. Then where will they be? Their choice was to play baseball and have an opportunity to play at the highest level. It wasn't to get the best education or serve their country. There is nothing wrong with this either; they freely made that choice.

Sure, perhaps your son is ranked too highly... But give some credit to PG, they've been doing this for while. Everyone pays the same fee to get a grade so there's no incentive to rank or grade a player too highly. Why pay more showcase $$ if you already got a 10 grade and a top 100 ranking?

And your son's 9.5 grade? Given by "non-baseball people that pretend to be knowledgeable?" I guess we would have to say the same for the MLB scouts that reached out to your son. What do they know?

Your son's grade seems to be correct. PG has been doing this for a long time. Just go back and look at prior years rankings and see how many of the top 100 were drafted. Most of them... Metrics don't lie. You can't teach metrics. Many parents on this site get worked up because their son hits or pitches like nobody else but because they don't have the necessary metrics (arm strength, exit velocity, speed, size, etc.) they get overlooked. Because these are the things that scouts notice. They may not be able to help a college coach win the championship but those coaches will sure roll the dice to see if it works out! MLB is no different!

Just tell you son to keep grinding; he'll get there. Tell him to go where he wants to go and use baseball to get there.

But.... Also have him work on arm strength. As I said, metrics don't lie--this is what he lacks. His pop time will increase along with an increase in velocity.

@ABSORBER posted:

But.... Also have him work on arm strength. As I said, metrics don't lie--this is what he lacks. His pop time will increase along with an increase in velocity.

Great take, appreciate all. This is 100% what my son and I have been talking about during these road trips-- arm strength. His arm is far better than most HS catchers so sometimes he forgets what its like competing with the big dogs. Catchers velocities at PG National were in the low to mid 80's, my son was 75 but has thrown a 79 in different conditions. Nevertheless, I can see very clearly through his metrics that there was ZERO improvement in arm strength between last summer and this summer--and that has to change. We talked about Tom House and some of the J-Band programs. We have been pretty good about long toss (I cant throw it nearly as far as him so he's playing long toss, and I'm playing 'please let this ball roll 100 yards'"). I wish I could afford that Texas Baseball Ranch or something more high level like one of those throwing labs at Wake Forest, but money is always a limitation.

My son is a pitcher and he did the Texas Baseball Ranch program and driveline. While these were beneficial in their own way, I would say the main thing that helped him gain velo was the weight room .

@Giff posted:

Update #2 (PG National and WWBA 17U Nat'l Championship):

The follow-on games saw him overmatched. There was a kid who was 6-7 or 8 from TN throwing in the mid-90's and most of the boys there had never seen anything like that (I think he hit 97 at one point and had good command). There were definitely some studs there but regardless, he didn't do much to garner attention.

In the aftermath the Twins, Guardians and Brewers scouts' reached out and asked for his schedule and the Twins had him fill out a questionnaire. We also received a message from U of Cincinnati, U of Alabama, AFA (again), Naval Academy (again), and Pepperdine. Alabama was out of nowhere, asked for the WWBA schedule and haven't heard anything else.

My son is also talking to U of Chicago who was at the Stanford Camp. Both Chicago and USMMA started the Zoom call by saying, "we know you're probably talking to a ton of D1's but we want you to consider..." We didn't have the heart to tell them that we aren't talking to any. I found it odd that they assumed we were given my concerns I've laid out to y'all but apparently these DIII coaches saw something in him.

Thanks for the update, a few things to add on

1. If he's feeling overmatched - it's not nothing. There is a difference between going to these events and having good ABs barreling balls up without results and having ABs where you feel like a hit was an accident more than it was a result of him being all over the pitcher. Some of the schools you mentioned, Alabama, Pepp, Cincy. That is big boy baseball, every pitcher they see is going to be low to high 90s and they're going to have 3-4 more years of experience than what he's facing now. To play D1 baseball at a high level at least - you need to hit high 80s low 90s pitching all the time. That is why all these coaches go down there for a week - they need to see these bats against quality pitching. People can say what they want about the quality of the WWBA, it's hard to get consistent good pitching locally, and going down there for a week is better than seeing 78 at some local tournament. Now this doesn't mean that your son won't get there eventually, but does he want to go play in the Big 12 or the SEC and find out he needed another year or two to get there?

2. Alabama has a new HC and I would imagine quite a few decommits and anticipation of more transferring out within the next 12 months.

3. This is not meant to discourage but more to put it into perspective. If you have 7 mid major and 1 P5 offer which level do you think is more appropriate for his playing abilities? If 8 D3s are constantly calling/coming to see him and 2 D1s rarely reach out/don't answer every text/email or in a timely manner which set of schools do you think would be better suited for him? The point is the offers speak for themselves.

One of mine had a bunch of P5 offers for 50% or less and a few mid majors offering close to 100%. The offers tell me he's fishing in the right pond. The other had about 10 mid majors close to 100% and one or 2 P5s who kept him on the back burner until they made 25 and 30% offers? Which level  would he be better suited for?

Giff:

My concern is to learn what adjustments did your son make in the "batters box" before and during his at bat with the 6'7" pitcher.

What size bat did he use? Did he "choke" the bat? Did he stand deeper in the batter's box? Did he stand "on or off" the plate?

What mental adjustments? Every situation is a learning opportunity.

Bob

Update #3 and last on this thread.

I missed out on the final consolation game which turned out to be very important. Son went 3-3 yesterday with a bomb, double and single. Pepperdine and Coastal Carolina were both present and talked to my son before the game. They were both there for the 3 run HR after which Pepperdine left.

My advisor later talked to Pepp and they are making an offer that we will hear, I think, tomorrow. This is huge news.

His stat line for the week after yesterday improved dramatically. .353 with a 1.118 OPS, 4 2B, a HR— and all around solid play behind the plate.

i think the ball is rolling now. It is definitely a “mid-major” ball. Like PA Baseball mentioned, and I completely agree, I’m trying to read where the offers are coming from in large part to help me make an assessment. He has gotten the P5 attention (Alabama, Cincy, even Texas Tech here locally showed interest for a while). I think the lions share of his interest, and the offers I think are going to come, will be mid-major. Right now we only have one D3 offer that I would say is in stone. I am not including JuCo for this discussion but they have been reaching out, and I am a firm believer in the potential surrounding the JuCo route… I did it myself LA Harbor JuCo to Cal.

Damndest thing though. I was born and raised in SoCal, moved to Texas to raise my family and escape the oppressive housing market (and other reasons), and now, with no specific plan to do so, it looks like I’ll now have two kids in college back in SoCal. I’ll post a separate thread when he commits, which may be soon. As always, appreciate the thoughts and advice!

@Giff posted:

to help me make an assessment. He has gotten the P5 attention (Alabama, Cincy, even Texas Tech here locally showed interest for a while). I think the lions share of his interest, and the offers I think are going to come, will be mid-major. Right now we only have one D3 offer that I would say is in stone. I am not including JuCo for this discussion but they have been reaching out.

So I'm going to raise one point that I haven't seen addressed — your note above says "to help me make an assessment" and "we have only D3 offer". It's not you, it's not we. It's your son.

What does he want to do? Where does he want to go? You also mention what people said on Zoom calls. My son had tons of those calls, we didn't participate. He had to see how he felt about the coaches and the program and build his own relationship.

When he got a P5 offer, we talked to the coach to understand the offer, and that was it. I talked to a couple of his local coaches just asking if he had a legit shot at playing, but in the end it didn't matter. I told him I wanted to talk about it, he came home that night and said, I told them I'm coming, what did you want to talk about?

It was his decision. It needs to be your sons. it's cool and exciting to get the big dogs lining up, but your job needs to be helping your son keep it all in perspective and make the right choice for him, not getting carried away in the hoopla.

That may not be what's happening, just seemed like something to watch out for.

Enjoy the ride and have great fun along the way.

@Iowamom23 posted:

So I'm going to raise one point that I haven't seen addressed — your note above says "to help me make an assessment" and "we have only D3 offer". It's not you, it's not we. It's your son.

What does he want to do? Where does he want to go? You also mention what people said on Zoom calls. My son had tons of those calls, we didn't participate. He had to see how he felt about the coaches and the program and build his own relationship.

When he got a P5 offer, we talked to the coach to understand the offer, and that was it. I talked to a couple of his local coaches just asking if he had a legit shot at playing, but in the end it didn't matter. I told him I wanted to talk about it, he came home that night and said, I told them I'm coming, what did you want to talk about?

It was his decision. It needs to be your sons. it's cool and exciting to get the big dogs lining up, but your job needs to be helping your son keep it all in perspective and make the right choice for him, not getting carried away in the hoopla.

That may not be what's happening, just seemed like something to watch out for.

Enjoy the ride and have great fun along the way.

Ha-ha, I have to disagree! Unless he's getting a full-ride (not likely), parents (who will be paying) need to participate in the decision!

@ABSORBER posted:

Ha-ha, I have to disagree! Unless he's getting a full-ride (not likely), parents (who will be paying) need to participate in the decision!

I agree. We talked to him about finances, grades, majors, etc. We went on college visits. I did research on the various institutions and we talked about whether they were a good fit. We had conversations with him about his conversations but did not participate with weekly calls with coaches. Literally talked to the head coach once — when he made his offer. When it came down to it, it was his decision. JMO

@ABSORBER posted:

Ha-ha, I have to disagree! Unless he's getting a full-ride (not likely), parents (who will be paying) need to participate in the decision!

Every kid, the relationship with their parents and financial situation is different. I believe that from 13 to 18 us parents transition from a position of power to one of influence, and that how you manage that transition (gradual or like a switch) can impact your longterm relationship. My youngest was fiercely independent, while his older brother was way more collaborative - the going to college process was very different for them.

Thankfully, assuming no abuse we get to mess our kids up they way we choose - I always felt I was in competition with the wife in who would be the biggest topic of their future therapy sessions. Not sure who won...

I do agree with @ABSORBER, if the parents have a significant financial stake then they should be part of the discussion.

@Giff posted:

Damndest thing though. I was born and raised in SoCal, moved to Texas to raise my family and escape the oppressive housing market (and other reasons), and now, with no specific plan to do so, it looks like I’ll now have two kids in college back in SoCal. I’ll post a separate thread when he commits, which may be soon. As always, appreciate the thoughts and advice!

Congrats on a bit of stress reduction and some great opportunities for your son! But don't get too comfortable, the stress fest continues - at least it did for me... lol!

@Giff posted:

Update #3 and last on this thread.

I missed out on the final consolation game which turned out to be very important. Son went 3-3 yesterday with a bomb, double and single. Pepperdine and Coastal Carolina were both present and talked to my son before the game. They were both there for the 3 run HR after which Pepperdine left.

My advisor later talked to Pepp and they are making an offer that we will hear, I think, tomorrow. This is huge news.

His stat line for the week after yesterday improved dramatically. .353 with a 1.118 OPS, 4 2B, a HR— and all around solid play behind the plate.

i think the ball is rolling now. It is definitely a “mid-major” ball. Like PA Baseball mentioned, and I completely agree, I’m trying to read where the offers are coming from in large part to help me make an assessment. He has gotten the P5 attention (Alabama, Cincy, even Texas Tech here locally showed interest for a while). I think the lions share of his interest, and the offers I think are going to come, will be mid-major. Right now we only have one D3 offer that I would say is in stone. I am not including JuCo for this discussion but they have been reaching out, and I am a firm believer in the potential surrounding the JuCo route… I did it myself LA Harbor JuCo to Cal.

Damndest thing though. I was born and raised in SoCal, moved to Texas to raise my family and escape the oppressive housing market (and other reasons), and now, with no specific plan to do so, it looks like I’ll now have two kids in college back in SoCal. I’ll post a separate thread when he commits, which may be soon. As always, appreciate the thoughts and advice!

My daughter and I were visiting the softball coach at Boston College in January. It was cold and windy as we walked across the parking lot. My daughter turned to me and said, “Dad, what were you thinking when you moved us from Southern California? Does anything here look like UCSB?”

We lived halfway between LA and Santa Barbara. She played in Florida.

wait until you see what 50% of pepperdine is.................

I read through this young man's PG profile.  They graded him as 6.5 and 7.5 x 2  just a few years ago when he was 5ft10-6ft/180lbs.  I have no doubt that he's worked very hard to get to where he is now.  His dad was a former high level college player so I'm sure he had good instruction as a youth when these grades were given.  Now all of a sudden PG has an epiphany that he is a 9.5?  If they are so good as a scouting service, shouldn't they have been able to tell when he was a freshman how good he would become?

I know a 16 yo kid who did a PG showcase as a 14u.  They graded him a 6.5.  He now runs a 6.5  60  and is a heck of a player.   Come on... 6.5.  I could even tell back then that was preposterous.   He was a minimum 8. 

I almost think they do this on purpose to make you feel you have to come back and do it again. errr...  I'm sorry.... pay it again. 

@Dadbelly2023, you are correct in your observations and your criticism. PG does not employ real scouts. They pay HS kids minimum wage to watch games, take video, and record basic data. The HS kid sends that info to an older kid that creates a catchy write up and blasts it out on social media. Showcases are done the same way. Rankings are based on word of mouth, metrics, and (to some degree) an assessment of performance at PG events. And they have brainwashed the public into believing that their opinions are really important. It is all a money grab. IMO 80% of players don’t benefit one bit from attending PG events.

I kind of like the PG events.  Didn't see any highschool kids running it.  Saw some college kids that currently play, but they looked to be more of technicians.  Saw some other coaches there as well.  Obviously no one needs to go to those, but I don't think it hurts either.  Especially if you don't have someone that knows someone.....

A kid I coached from 13u to 15yo in 16u was graded a 10 by PG. He committed to an annually high ranked P5 program. His highly regarded coach referred to him as potentially the best recruit he’s ever snagged.

What the father did was spent every dollar possible to train the kid for showcases. At fifteen he looked physically like Josh Hamilton.

But from coaching the kid for three years I knew he didn’t have the mental makeup. This kid led our team in me telling him to shake it off and focus.

In 17u my son and this kid also played on the same team. My son became good friends with a teammate that played high school ball with the kid. The friend told my son the “stud” accumulated all his stats against cupcakes and didn’t hit in the big games. But this stud had been trained to death to excel in showcases. I thought the major PG tournaments would expose the kid. I never understood how they didn’t. The kid was handed a spot on the regional Area Code team. It’s the one thing that ticked my son off since he didn’t make the team (still great exposure just to tryout).

When this class of 17u players headed for college I told a friend (son was also on the 17u team) the “stud” will play his way out of the lineup by conference play every year. For three years the kid was handed a starting position and on the bench by conference play.

Then, after junior year and I don’t understand why, after the draft he was offered a free agent contract for short season with a MLB organization. The kid had the look. But this was when I started wondering who his father knew. He didn’t get past Low A in three seasons.

@Dadof3 posted:

I kind of like the PG events.  Didn't see any highschool kids running it.  Saw some college kids that currently play, but they looked to be more of technicians.  Saw some other coaches there as well.  Obviously no one needs to go to those, but I don't think it hurts either.  Especially if you don't have someone that knows someone.....

This is where my philosophy of the best recruiting method is have a travel coach who has credibility and contacts and can presell the player. Once past the top one hundred players at a major PG event the next 900 can blend in. On any given day you can’t tell 200 from 1000 in three or four at bats.

My son never did a PG showcase. But from attending PG tournaments and his travel coach selling him he had a 9.5 score. I felt it was high. But hundreds of players receive 9.5. Keep in mind PG scores is how they see potential not reality.