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138 replies

If height and weight don't matter, then why?

NP13NP13100+ posts
I did not want to take another discussion further off topic, but I must respectfully disagree with several of the statements.

"It really was fairly unimportant." - That not even close to being true... If it was, why list it at all. Sure if you are a top 1% talent, but what about all those other kids looking for exposure. It may not be important to Price Fielder or Zack Grenkie, but it sure mattered to Brett Gardner. He was lightning fast and College of Charleston would not have even given him a shot if not for a transfer.

"If you're small, yet something special, it doesn't matter" - What if you 5'10 and honest and another kid is 5'10.5" and list 6'. You don't think that matters when a college coach is making a short list? I had a well respected college coach tell me they like to recruit the kids out of there camp, but they compile a list from showcases profiles(not just PG).

"but an inch or two or a few pounds are not critical factors in evaluation" - Maybe not the evaluation number, but it does to the coaches that look at the profile. I know PG is well respected and should be, but there rating isn't the "be all, end all" to college coaches. At least for some, it is a starting point. 6' instead of 5'10" does matter.

"Who's it hurting? No one" - It hurts the honest kids. That is like saying PED don't hurt the kids who don't take them. It's not a level playing/recruiting field.

I really like Perfect Game and PGstaff for all he add to this site, but please verify H/W. I'm sure you can get someone to stand there during registration and verify H/W. Give a parent a hat and t-shirt if you don't want to pay someone for the regristration time. Kids alway trickle in to any camp or showcase please don't pretend this is difficult. I been to many wrestling tournaments where 100 plus kids get weighed in as they register, it's not that hard...
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justbaseballjustbaseball10,000+ posts
NP13 - I think these are some good questions/points you bring up.

Let me tell you a story about "measuring" though. When my older son attended events (all were reputable...for example Area Codes among others) his junior->senior summer, some of them did measure him. Not very well though. There was a range of 20 pounds (no way) and 2 inches (no way either).

How could this happen? Still don't know the answer.
bballmanbballman10,000+ posts
Well, as the parent of a shorter kid, I still ask the question of why height and weight matter as much as it does. Is there really any empirical evidence that shorter players get injured more? If an under 6' pitcher is effective, what does it matter if he is under 6'?

I know at a PG showcase, my son did very well on the mound. Good velocity, especially for a 2012, allowed no hits with 4 K's in two innings. Got a respectable rating (not complaining at all), but others got higher ratings with similar or not as good stats. They were taller than him and I think this plays a role in the "projectability" department.

Before anyone jumps on my comments, I am NOT bashing PG. I will be going back as soon as my son makes measurable progress. He got a respectable rating for his first showcase. I'm just wondering about the overall perception that taller kids (pitchers especially) are more projectable than shorter.
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
I don't know that most major showcases would have time to measure and weigh all the kids. Why is height and weight a factor? It's another topic someone posted recently .... projectability.

A coach/scout can look at a 6'1", 170 sixteen year old with a baby face and picture a 6'3", 195 player. He can look a 5'10", 180 pound player with a 5 o'clock shadow at noon and figure what he sees is what he gets. While it's all about talent, if these two players have equal ability at sixteen or seventeen, which would you take? The first player probably has more upside.

When Steve Garvey played he was listed at 5'10". My wife and I met him at a pool party. My 5'8" wife (in flat sandals) was taller.

I was told about twenty years ago the Mets minor league managers below AAA ball didn't fill out nightly reports on pitchers under 6'2" unless they were exceptional pitchers. Sid Fernandez (5'9") threw in the 90's and he was a lefty.
Last edited by RJM
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
when a player steps on the field the coaches know what his height is--it is really irrelevant if he can play---if you have 100 plus kids to measure where do you find the time in a compressed weekend of baseball

Bottom line---if the player has talent who cares about the height--ask Dustin Pedroia
EH Emanski's Heroes1,000+ posts
After college, I was a minor league intern for a season. There was one player (who has had quite a bit of big league time) who came into the office after we listed him at 6' 160, which was a bit generous in our opinion. He was probably 5'11", but insisted on being listed at 6'1" 170, or else he didn't have as good a chance of being picked up by another organization. I'm not sure his fear was warranted, but he thought a little fib gave him a better shot.
rz1rz15,000+ posts
Billy Wagner is listed at 5'11" but if I was in the box against him in his prime I'll bet he looked 6'5. Regardless of who's recording what, it is their business what they want to see and how to use that data. Your business is to out perform the others, simple as that. Anyone who relies on height and weight as a barometer will not have a job for long because as soon as their bosses see guys falling through the cracks because of those non-talent statistics, they will be gone.

As far as kids who give this "urban myth" any credibility, tell them to use it as a motivational tool to prove the skeptics wrong.
Last edited by rz1
NP13NP13100+ posts
"I think the bottom line is that any rating agency should not list any stats that they have not verified."


Bingo!

Size matters to the people using these profiles to compile a "short list". Speed matters, you wouldn't let the kid tell you his time and post it? Heck, many people here have posted POP times don't matter, but a kid doesn't get to list his time his dad timed.
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
Coaches and scouts know that the heights and weights that PG lists are self reported. I'm sure they take them with a grain of salt, and yes they probably take the ones that list actual height with a grain of salt also. Don't worry too much, someone else will add to their height at some point. College coaches often add a bit. I found out my son had grown an inch and a half the other day without my knowing it. Smile

Personally, now that he's 6'2 1/2" we're going to list him at 6'3" just to keep up with the Joneses. Someday.
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
NP13,

You bring up some very good points. However, I think you could have done it a bit more "respectfully" IMO! The major point is verification of height and weight in regard to rating a player. You are correct, ht/wt can be important, just as GPA and date of birth.

I'll attempt to respond to your post below.

quote:
I did not want to take another discussion further off topic, but I must respectfully disagree with several of the statements.

"It really was fairly unimportant." - That not even close to being true... If it was, why list it at all.

Please add the entire statement rather than picking out one sentence. The reason for listing is because it is part of the Bio on that player. Would college coaches prefer "nothing" being listed?


Sure if you are a top 1% talent, but what about all those other kids looking for exposure. It may not be important to Price Fielder or Zack Grenkie, but it sure mattered to Brett Gardner. He was lightning fast and College of Charleston would not have even given him a shot if not for a transfer.

Guess I don’t understand the reference to Brett Gardner. He is one of many 5’10” players in the big leagues. Would he somehow be at a higher level had someone listed him at 6’0”? Coastal Carolina’s current roster has 9 players listed between 5’9” and 5’11”! LSU was last year’s champions, their current roster lists 11 players between 5’6” and 5’11”! Does anyone really believe that all these players got there by exaggerating their height?

"If you're small, yet something special, it doesn't matter" - What if you 5'10 and honest and another kid is 5'10.5" and list 6'. You don't think that matters when a college coach is making a short list? I had a well respected college coach tell me they like to recruit the kids out of there camp, but they compile a list from showcases profiles(not just PG).

NP, does that very respected coach measure that kid at his camp? We have not once been asked to measure players by any college. We see nearly all the DI colleges each year. If they want it, we will do it. We see thousands of players at our tournaments. Those rosters are turned in by the coaches. Are they perfectly accurate? No, it is obvious they are not always accurate. When players attend an event, they fill out player information sheets ahead of time. This is where they list their height and weight among other things, like birth date. Before the event takes place programs and information sheets for scouts and college coaches are printed. At most showcase events players register and start the event immediately. So even if we were to measure, there is no time to print. Someone brought up how important they thought birth dates were. Should that be checked out also? How about academics, everyone knows how important that is. Colleges need the transcripts, we don’t. Bottom line… It just doesn’t help anyone by telling anything other than the truth. Most kids tell the truth… Their listed height is very close to what they are. College basketball programs have been notorious in the past at listing players taller than they really are. The listed height does not affect what the NBA does.

"but an inch or two or a few pounds are not critical factors in evaluation" - Maybe not the evaluation number, but it does to the coaches that look at the profile. I know PG is well respected and should be, but there rating isn't the "be all, end all" to college coaches. At least for some, it is a starting point. 6' instead of 5'10" does matter.

Our events are all about finding out who can play and who has the best tools. Everyone is looking for the “obvious” talent. Most players end up where their talent dictates. Sometimes the talent evaluation can be wrong and this can have a negative affect. But whether a player is truly 5’10 or 6’0 will not change anyone’s thinking. I don’t think any good college coach will eliminate a player because he is listed as 5’10” (using your example). If the 5’10” guy is border line and the 6’0 guy is border line, coaches will look for what they think is the guy who is good enough for sure. How tall that player is will have very little to do with their decisions.

"Who's it hurting? No one" - It hurts the honest kids. That is like saying PED don't hurt the kids who don't take them. It's not a level playing/recruiting field.

Please don’t confuse someone’s listed height with using PED’s. No matter what someone thinks about size or honesty… The playing field is about as level as it can be when it comes to recruiting or scouting. #1 on everyone’s list is talent. Sure everyone would prefer their pitchers be taller rather than shorter, unless the shorter guy is better.

I really like Perfect Game and PGstaff for all he add to this site, but please verify H/W. I'm sure you can get someone to stand there during registration and verify H/W. Give a parent a hat and t-shirt if you don't want to pay someone for the regristration time. Kids alway trickle in to any camp or showcase please don't pretend this is difficult. I been to many wrestling tournaments where 100 plus kids get weighed in as they register, it's not that hard...

OK, we don’t have players weigh in. Unlike wrestling, in baseball they compete against others that might be much bigger or smaller. It doesn’t have anything to do with “paying” someone to do it, that’s kind of an insult. No one ever said it was difficult, did they? What do you mean by saying things like… “Please don’t pretend”! You are correct, this would be very easy to do. It would be much harder to reprint the program for those in attendance. I wish you would have simply stated your opinion a bit differently. It might just be that we will actually start measuring players at all our events. We would have already done that if we actually thought we were hurting honest kids. After all, that would be the vast majority of all those kids we see.
Once again, if college recruiters or MLB scouts asked us to do this because of its importance, we would do it. They request many things, but not one has ever requested that. When they send you a questionnaire, they know you will be filling in your height and weight. They do not take that as the gospel and they will find out soon enough if they believe you have the necessary talent.

Here is the post you’re referring to in its entirety. I suppose if I were to redo this I might add more to it. I appreciate opinions regarding this because we certainly have changed things if it will help make what we do better.

quote:
I'm sorry, but I'm also not sure what it is you are looking for. We have measured height at some events, never weighed players. It really was fairly unimportant.

What did become important is when people would list themself as 6'1" when they were obviously more like 5'8". This would reveal something and it is obvious.

If anyone here has ever been to a Major League tryout, have you been measured or do they ask you to fill out a form with your height and weight?

If anyone here has filled out a college questionaire, do they measure you or ask for you to list your height and weight.

Anyone can "fudge" an inch or so, but any more than that becomes very obvious to all those who make decisions.

Evaluating players involves talent, projection can involve body type. Character involves being honest to a degree. We have seen players that appear taller than what is listed and we see more players who appear to be shorter than what is listed. There is lots of information we ask for and we take it as factual. Birth date, ht, wt, B/T, GPA, etc. we certainly hope that the information is close to accurate.

I believe that East Coast Pro, Area Codes, the Scouting Bureau might measure and weigh players. We seldom do that. No one involved in making decisions has ever asked us to do that. If they did ask us to do it, we would do it.

Is it important if we list Zach Greinke the 6'2" he reported in high school or if he would have reported 6'4". BTW, he is 6'2" on the MLB roster.

Prince Fielder listed himself as 6'1" when he was in high school, he's now listed as 6'0 on his MLB roster... It didn't make any difference if he was really 6'0' or 6'1" and that is if he is really 6'0".

Chris Cates listed himself to us as 5'3" in high school, he is 5'3" today. We wouldn't have thought he was any better or worse if he had listed himself at 5'8". Just the same player at a different size. Real good!

Word travels like wild fire when a player has grossly overstated his size. People who do this for a living are not fooled that easily.

I'm watching the MLB Network talking about Adam Jones in last year's All Star game right now. He listed himself as 6'1/180 for us in high school. Now he is listed as 6'2"/200 for the Orioles. That is usually how it works.

Most people tell the truth and even what they think is the truth might be a bit inaccurate. High school kids can change a lot in a short period of time. If people report 6'1" I think he is 6'1" unless my eyes tell me differently. If he is a little under or a little over it doesn't change how we evaluate him. Only the gross exagerations become a concern and those are very obvious.

With all that said, I believe in the more information the better. But do we actually gether more important info about a player by measuring him or finding out how honest he is? That is the question. If he's good enough he will be measured at some point. We have found that most of those considered the best are truthful even if not entirely accurate. No one is fooled to any great extent!
Last edited by PGStaff
Baseballdad1228Baseballdad1228500+ posts
The fact that this is such a in-depth discussion is stunning.

The beauty of baseball is that talent, hard work and a passion for the game is infinitely more inportant than a tape measure and a scale. There are no height or weight restrictions in baseball. There is no need to measure or weigh in. Baseball is the one sport where the little guy and the big guy have the same chance for success with many different paths to that success available.

Phil Rizzuto was an MVP. Dave Kingman wasn't.

I filled out a player sheet for the 2010 World Showcase. I listed my son as 6-2 and 200 pounds in January. I didn't measure him - I gave it a best guess. He's 210 now. Do I need to amend the form? Does the number I wrote on the paper change his talent or performance? No. Will a scout or a college care when they see him hit a double or miss badly on a slider or whatever his TALENT has in store for him? The answer is no.

There have to be better things to discuss with the season right around the corner.
NP13NP13100+ posts
PGstaff,

Not everyone is attacking you. I thought I made this clear, I guess not. So I will try again...

This was in no way a shot at PG. I like, support and hope my kid will attend your showcases and tournaments someday!
Only one part of my original post even referenced anything you said. There was no disrespect inteded or implied. I even went out of my way to say how much I respected PG and you, and I mean that.

I am sorry that I question something that I thought was being swept under on another thread that I thought was important. Size does matter, therefor accurate reporting of it for a rating service matters.

Simply put by another poster...

"I think the bottom line is that any rating agency should not list any stats that they have not verified"

Not just PG any service that rates kids should post accurate information.

I don't think size makes the player! I think size matters to a college coach looking at a rating service to compile a list of kids to look at.

I wont take this any further. I don't read this site to argue, just learn.

Thanks for the input.

Ed
floridafanfloridafan5,000+ posts
It does make you wonder what the best course of action is...my guy is 5'11", if I list him as 6' does he not look better on paper? And, knowing that it is a common practice...if he lists himself as 5'11" does that make folks believe he may be 5'9"?

And are we talking about with cleats on, on a hard surface?



FOR THE RECORD THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PG, THIS IS BASEBALL IN GENERAL

Baseballdad1228 with all due respect, if your son is 6' plus legit it does not matter. If my kid was 6'2" I would be thrilled and height would never enter my mind again, check that one off, yep he's got height! If my kid runs a 6.8 I don't worry about speed, yep hes's fast, check that one off!

But, if your kid is a pitcher and 5'10" and he's 16, I bet you are hoping he hasn't hit his growth spurt yet!

I keep telling myself that Scandinavians take longer to grow, LOL! Heck I was still growing until I was 23. If fact I seem to still be growing, but no longer vertically!

And, thank you PGStaff for your detailed response, your presence and input on this site are definately appreciated and valued by me.
Last edited by floridafan
justbaseballjustbaseball10,000+ posts
NP13, PGStaff - Not that you asked my opinion, but I didn't think the original post was not respectful (or maybe that comment was tongue-in-cheek?).

But I know sometimes I read stuff (for example about one of my sons) and they hit me the wrong way even though there was no intent by the writer to do so. Maybe this just fits into that category?

Anyways, I thought it was a good topic. Some things in here I've wondered about over the years.
Last edited by justbaseball
coach2709coach270910,000+ posts
In the grand scheme of things height and weight don't matter (unless your talking about my weight which I think would hinder many athletes - I would be a beast of an offensive lineman if my mid-section could move to my chest). As others have stated if you can play you can play and people will give you a chance to play.....usually.

Height / weight is "important" because basketball and football require it. If you don't have size in those sports you truly are at a disadvantage. Doesn't mean you can't perform but overall the odds are against you - bigger people will be selected over you. For every Spud Webb there are millions who don't make it. At my school we got this senior who's a point guard and running back. He's something like 5'7 or 8 and he wants to play basketball in college. Guess how many sniffs he's gotten from colleges? You're right - none. He plays 2B for us and he's awesome and that is where his future lies if he ever wakes up. He's a great running back but he weighs something like 150lbs (maybe a little more). I won't even tell you what the football coaches say about him.

Because it's expected in basketball / football most people assume it's needed or has value in baseball when it truly doesn't. One that it does do is provide perspective. A scout/coach/parent/whoever looks on a sheet and see's Johnny is 6'2 and 190lbs then they have a frame of reference for that kid. Does it make him better or worse - nope. Can they continue to perform at a showcase or team if they don't have it listed - yep.

Overall it's not that big of a deal - period.
coach2709coach270910,000+ posts
Oh yeah - there are some coaches out there who just go for the bigger kids. They like the "intimidation" factor with bigger kids. They probably will pass on a Dustin Pedroia type player because they believe they will find an A-Rod type player who performs the same but is just bigger.

I'm not syaing it's right or wrong but that's the way they just think. If you look at a roster and everyone is six plus and you are 5'9 then you might want to go onto the next school.
bballmanbballman10,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by floridafan:
FOR THE RECORD THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PG, THIS IS BASEBALL IN GENERAL

Baseballdad1228 with all due respect, if your son is 6' plus legit it does not matter. If my kid was 6'2" I would be thrilled and height would never enter my mind again, check that one off, yep he's got height! If my kid runs a 6.8 I don't worry about speed, yep hes's fast, check that one off!

But, if your kid is a pitcher and 5'10" and he's 16, I bet you are hoping he hasn't hit his growth spurt yet!



Floridafan, I agree here. I think 6' is the magic number. I think the issue is, if a scout is looking through profiles (PG or otherwise), unless the rating is a 10, anyone under 6' will be overlooked by most. Not projectable. It's not really an issue for me whether the scouting agency verifies height and weight, so maybe I shouldn't be posting on this topic, but my issue is with the general view in the baseball world that taller is better. I don't think anyone can deny this outlook. Sure, shorter players can always make it. They just have to outshine everyone else. Why is it that way? Why would a 5'10" pitcher throwing 88 be less projectable than a 16 yr. old 6'3" pitcher throwing 88?

If this wasn't the case, it wouldn't matter whether someone was fudging the numbers. People fudge the numbers because they believe it will give them an advantage. They think that because they hear all the time that the taller kids are more "projectable". My general question is why does it matter how tall they are. There are shorter pitchers in MLB. They just have to be all that much better. Is there any evidence that shows that they are less durable? Or is it just an assumption?
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
I think the topic is worth discussing. My point about it could have been a bit more respectful would be if the following comments were not included.

"It really was fairly unimportant." - That not even close to being true

"Who's it hurting? No one" (I don't remember saying that) - It hurts the honest kids. That is like saying PED don't hurt the kids who don't take them. It's not a level playing/recruiting field.

Give a parent a hat and t-shirt if you don't want to pay someone for the regristration time. Kids alway trickle in to any camp or showcase please don't pretend this is difficult.
(I never said it was difficult and didn't "pretend" anything and it has nothing to do with paying someone)

Guess it’s just another case of how one words things and how others might take the same thing.

NP, It's not that big a deal, I'm not here to argue either. Sometimes it would be much better if I just kept quiet rather than giving an opinion.
1baseballdad1baseballdad100+ posts
PG, you guys had well over 400 kids attend the National Underclass event in December, right? I would think that would be a logistical nightmare to try and get an accurate height/weight measurement from that many people.

Could it be done? Sure but then again, those that are trying to game the system in the first place by saying they are 6'2" when they are 5'8" are going to figure out how to do it in that circumstance too.

JMO.
D dswann100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by bballman:
quote:
Originally posted by floridafan:
FOR THE RECORD THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PG, THIS IS BASEBALL IN GENERAL

Baseballdad1228 with all due respect, if your son is 6' plus legit it does not matter. If my kid was 6'2" I would be thrilled and height would never enter my mind again, check that one off, yep he's got height! If my kid runs a 6.8 I don't worry about speed, yep hes's fast, check that one off!

But, if your kid is a pitcher and 5'10" and he's 16, I bet you are hoping he hasn't hit his growth spurt yet!



Floridafan, I agree here. I think 6' is the magic number. I think the issue is, if a scout is looking through profiles (PG or otherwise), unless the rating is a 10, anyone under 6' will be overlooked by most. Not projectable. It's not really an issue for me whether the scouting agency verifies height and weight, so maybe I shouldn't be posting on this topic, but my issue is with the general view in the baseball world that taller is better. I don't think anyone can deny this outlook. Sure, shorter players can always make it. They just have to outshine everyone else. Why is it that way? Why would a 5'10" pitcher throwing 88 be less projectable than a 16 yr. old 6'3" pitcher throwing 88?

If this wasn't the case, it wouldn't matter whether someone was fudging the numbers. People fudge the numbers because they believe it will give them an advantage. They think that because they hear all the time that the taller kids are more "projectable". My general question is why does it matter how tall they are. There are shorter pitchers in MLB. They just have to be all that much better. Is there any evidence that shows that they are less durable? Or is it just an assumption?


The balls trajectory delievered from a guy 6.6 will be a tad different than the 5.10 guy. That would be my guess. At 6.6 the boys 'projectabilty" as midlle infielder is pretty much shot. So it pretty much cuts both ways
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
It appears that some believe that height and weight really matter to recruiters. If that is true, then....

a)

Recruiters look at lists, circle all those guys 6' and above, and then go out and recruit those guys who have been circled...

or

b)
They "see" some kid who stands out in the crowd because of their talent. They consult the list/bio's to see if it generally conforms to their own evaluation.

c)
combination of a and b. Coach looks at list beforehand especially at those positions of need. He never recruits anyone however that he has not personally seen. He also will not reject a guy who is under 6' who appears to play big.
observer44observer441,000+ posts
.
'Bout time to break this ut again...

Both of mine are very tall...

....I am simply THRILLED to hear once again that mine will receiving a fistfull of "free passes"! Thank you! Thank you! Thank You! The universe be praised! May your camels shed all their fleas!

But I need help....

...I don't mean to be rude, but could you please tell me when this might occur? Given your sentiments I promised these passes to my sons a long, long time ago, and I have yet to hear from anyone. Can you believe that both are in college now and no coach, recruiter, or scout has "rolled over" for height yet?

Now, I don't mean to whine, but mine continue to lose out to players who are faster, or have developed ealier, or throw harder, or are more agile, or have better body types, or whose fathers played pro ball, or who have better genes. Don't they understand that mine get free passes? I tell my son's that their passes are coming but I have yet to see them, and I am beginning to lose my fatherly credability. Maybe someone could call the coaches, scouts or recruiters and remind them?

Or do we have to apply? If so, where is the application? Tallplayer.com? Skywardsubsidy.net? Skybaseball.org? Is there a deadline?

Please let us know if you have any information or suggestions.

In the meantime, while awaiting those "free passes" mine will continue to work hard and grind out a little success one day at a time as they have always done with the packages that they have been given...the good, the bad, and the ugly. They will foolishly continue to believe that passion, dedication, work ethic, attitude, and effort applied on a daily basis will do more for them than the "Free passes" you will soon be providing for all tall players.

Yours truly,

44
.
Last edited by observer44
rz1rz15,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by observer44:
....I am simply THRILLED to hear once again that mine will receiving a fistfull of "free passes"! Thank you! Thank you! Thank You! The universe be praised! May your camels shed all their fleas!


44- I'm dwarfed by your humor but please remember that mine are bigger than yours so you will have to get in line.
bballmanbballman10,000+ posts
44, I'm a little offended by your sarcasm. No one said anyone gets a free pass for any reason! I have heard it stated numerous times that small guys can make it - they just have to stand out that much more. I have read numerous profiles on PG for a kid 6'3", that he has a "projectible frame". Never read that for a small guy.

I really don't think you can deny that kids that are taller are classified as more "projectable". I'm not saying that all you need is height. If you have two kids of equal talent, the taller kid will get the nod. Am I wrong? If I am totally off base that in if all else is equal, the taller kids get picked, tell me and I'll not say another word about it.

And I am talking more about higher level DI and MLB. I know that any D3 or JUCO will take a kid throwing 88-90 regardless of his height. I just don't think you can deny that taller players are considered more "projectable".

Come on 44. No call for that kind of attitude.
GM Gingerbread Man500+ posts
I will agree with the taller is better in baseball, at least to a certain point, and if you are really tall, perhaps looking into basketball is a better avenue.

The problem I see at all levels is the fib/fudge factor. Pretty much everyone does this. It bothers me to see kids listed taller than they are, especially if it is in the 1+" range. Measurements under an inch don't bother me but when I see kids listed at 6'1 and I walk up to them and look them dead even in the eye (and I am only around 5'10"), it makes me laugh. Whether it's coaches or parents, or even player themselves doing this, it is a "lie" and has hurt every aspect of the game. It's a disease. I see this especially with throwing velocity mph numbers that get "talked" about.

At every level you see people lie about pitching velocity numbers. I get people all the time telling me that my son must be throwing around 80mph when in actuality he was throwing quite a bit less than that. They of course tell other people this and you know the rest of the story- Gee..., if he is throwing 80 then my kid must be be throwing like 75, etc, etc. The problem is the hype- overinflated realities. That is the reason why every little leaguer can throw 80 mph- it's becaus everyone runs around wild with overinflated hype and so then everyone has to overinflate their own son to not sound so bad.

This can be applied to every aspect including height. My son for instance is a hair under 5'10" (literally without socks or shoes) and yet he has friends who are a good inch shorter state their height as either the same or taller- even as much as 2" taller. that drives me crazy- they either have a very bad distortion of reality or are willing to lie if it gets their kid looked at over their best friends!

I heard this rumor this year about a kid who played with my son in basketball last year. This year both him and my son play on opposing teams and are the same height, weight, etc. The rumor was that this kid was now throwing the "ball down" (dunking the basketball). I laughed and said it was a fib. I then saw this kid before a game trying to throw the ball down. He was jumping fairly high, just barely able to draw iron with the edges of his fingers. I never actually saw him dunk the ball either before a game or in a game. All it is is hype and it hurts other players around them that are just as good or better.

People shouldn't lie. Perhaps, then the real truth would be that the real average height of a MLB player would be 1-2 less and we at our level wouldn't make such a big deal out of it!
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
As someone whose son is in between those passed over sub 6 footers and not as tall as O44's free passers I'm stymied. I don't know if he's got an advantage or not. Please don't tell me he has to earn it. Roll Eyes

Being shorter is a bit of a disadvantage in the recruiting game. Being very tall is both an advantage and a disadvantage. Being fairly tall and athletic looking is an advantage and just like in the corporate world that advantage does tend to be a bit more long lasting than it should be.

One can list them as a bit taller to hopefully get looks as long as one doesn't go overboard but other than that people's biases aren't going to change anytime soon.

I remember being told by my twin brother's stepfather, who bore more than a faint resemblance to Fernando Valenzuela, that he lost his chance to make it to the bigs when they started going to the taller pitchers. That was almost 40 years ago.
Last edited by CADad
BW Bob Williams500+ posts
OK
We have logged in over 10,000 players for the Area Code games and Goodwill Series events since 1983.

Of course, I could tease you and perform a analysis on the 450 MLB players who played in our events, who were 6' or taller and weight 180 lbs or more. This stat would determine projection!!!!

Personally, it doesn't make any difference. The athlete can either play [prospect] or can't play [KP].

Two years ago in our Australia Goodwill Series ago a player from Florida 5'9 turned down $250,000 from the Twins. He was 6.7 in the 60 yard and threw 90 mph, played OF and SS.

Yes, he could play. So could our "All American" outside linebacker from Houston. He was 6'2 and 215.

Many years ago, I batted off the nephew of Dizzy Dean. He had his second finger on his pitching hand stretched, so he could throw a "harder" curve.

Maybe we should measure the fingers. Scouts have two difficulties.

Evaluate the "bat" and the "heart".
The scouts tease me, because I can evaluate the impact of the wood bat over the phone.

Bob Williams
Last edited by Bob Williams
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
quote:
I remember being told by my twin brother's stepfather

CADad - Wouldn't it be easier to say that you remember being told by your stepfather? Big Grin

quote:
The scouts tease me, because I can evaluate the impact of the wood bat over the phone.


Bob Williams - there's a lot to be said for that. When listening to games on the Internet, I can usually tell when my son or someone else has hit the ball hard.
VD Vicarious Dad100+ posts
I can see height being a factor in baseball. Figure a 6'6" 1B is likely gonna have more reach than a 5'10" 1B, or even a 6'3" 1B. Maybe, some bad throws are still outs with the longer guy there, holding the bag. If all else is equal (fat chance), the taller player would have the edge.

As far as kids fluffing their heights... everyone knows many do. So, should a kid be honest or give himself a little boost? After all, nobody's checking.
P PitcherDad10+ posts
As the father of a (currently) five niner, this is an issue we've dealt with forever. Pitcher has always been among the shorter players everywhere, and he has had to prove himself over and over again. Coaches who didn't believe he could bring it. Players (and especially players' parents unfortunately) who questioned his presence on a team.

But we taught him early on not to worry about your size, worry about your ability, your work ethic, your character, your grades. Those are things you CAN control, and those are the characteristics that the people who really matter are looking at. Sure enough, that's how it's panning out. He has heard over and over at PG and other events that the first question recruiters ask about a player is, "what's his GPA"? He has learned that he can use his size to his advantage by showing that he can play "bigger" than people expect just from looking at him. I think he even looks forward to proving them wrong.

My advice, don't sweat the size issue. From my son's personal experience, it does not matter. Certainly not to the four D I's that are interested in him.

Of course, he's still looking wistfully at my two 6' 7" cousins hoping someday that gene will kick in. Smile

PD
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