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138 replies

If height and weight don't matter, then why?

bballmanbballman10,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by PitcherDad:
As the father of a (currently) five niner, this is an issue we've dealt with forever. Pitcher has always been among the shorter players everywhere, and he has had to prove himself over and over again. Coaches who didn't believe he could bring it. Players (and especially players' parents unfortunately) who questioned his presence on a team.

But we taught him early on not to worry about your size, worry about your ability, your work ethic, your character, your grades. Those are things you CAN control, and those are the characteristics that the people who really matter are looking at. Sure enough, that's how it's panning out. He has heard over and over at PG and other events that the first question recruiters ask about a player is, "what's his GPA"? He has learned that he can use his size to his advantage by showing that he can play "bigger" than people expect just from looking at him. I think he even looks forward to proving them wrong.

My advice, don't sweat the size issue. From my son's personal experience, it does not matter. Certainly not to the four D I's that are interested in him.

Of course, he's still looking wistfully at my two 6' 7" cousins hoping someday that gene will kick in. Smile

PD


PitcherDad, your son sounds like mine. 16, 5'9" and says he likes it when the opposition underestimates him. He says they look at him like they will hit him hard and then blows it by them. Having a good change and breaking ball don't hurt either. Anyway, he likes the challenge. He'll keep plugging along. Throws pretty hard and gets a ton of outs, so we'll take it as it goes. Just bothers me that the smaller guys are often not given as much cred just because of the size.

Still haven't seen any evidence that they tend to not be as durable as the bigger guys which is a reason I have heard in the past.
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
Wait a minute, is that 6'4 1/2" first thing in the morning or in the afternoon? Have to know the answer to that before you can round up.

Halfway seriously, some kids shrink 1/2" or more during the day.

Both 6'4" and 6'5" send a projectable message. If he's a middle infielder 6'4", if he's a catcher 6'2" and have him slouch a lot. If he's a pitcher they both work.
rz1rz15,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by bballman:
44, I'm a little offended by your sarcasm. No one said anyone gets a free pass for any reason! I have heard it stated numerous times that small guys can make it - they just have to stand out that much more. I have read numerous profiles on PG for a kid 6'3", that he has a "projectible frame". Never read that for a small guy.


Don't be offended bballman, 44 picked up the sarcastic tude from living with his brother 444.

IMO, If an athlete is worried about size being an issue, he is in the wrong profession to begin with. A baseball guy throwing out "projectible frame" phrase is like the weatherman giving the "extended forecast". Both have supporting data but neither is gospel.
Last edited by rz1
H Harv100+ posts
Well, the facts are very clear, height does matter to scouts, significantly and anyone saying otherwise is just blowing sunshine.

PG even comments on it in a player's profile using words like "smaller build" so anyone looking can see the "stats" as well as the comments in case they missed the fact that the player is short.

A player below 5'10" has a most difficult time standing out on a database of players regardless of his skill set. On the other hand, in an actual tryout his height may attract attention and if he has "game" attention is a good thing don't you think.
55mom55mom1,000+ posts
Height and weight do matter. No one on here that I can tell are scouts or recruiters, and they are saying exactly what I've heard too. I heard it from coaches, players being recruited, including my son. The first comment is "how tall", "not shaving?", then since because he is a pitcher, "how fast"..

I see it as a nascar mentality, these items and others such as base running speed, pop time, and I'm sure I'm missing something, (homerun distance?) are easily quantified. They can be used to back up the intangibles the scouts/recruiters see.

One of the best players I know is 5'10", and even though he works his tail off, he has been told he is too short for the ACC. Personally, I think they are missing something, but he will play somewhere and he will contribute in a big way.

Maybe height will keep you off a "Major" DI roster, but if you can play the game a "midlevel" DI will be happy to take a look.
BumBum1,000+ posts
Well, my son may be the smallest Pac-10 pitcher, rostered at only 5'8". I sometimes cringe when I see him way down on scouting lists when I know he's throwing harder and cruising faster, with a better breaking ball, than many above him. What can you do besides put the cleats back on and keep at it? In the end, talent wins out, and some smart scout somewhere will realize what he's got and get a good pitcher. All I know is when he gets the CHANCE to pitch he does well. Last year in Spring, he didn't get the chance. In Summer he did and did great.

Size won't be his demise, that's all I've got to say. The minute you start believing that, it's all over with.
rz1rz15,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Harv:
Well, the facts are very clear, height does matter to scouts, significantly and anyone saying otherwise is just blowing sunshine.

PG even comments on it in a player's profile using words like "smaller build" so anyone looking can see the "stats" as well as the comments in case they missed the fact that the player is short.

A player below 5'10" has a most difficult time standing out on a database of players regardless of his skill set. On the other hand, in an actual tryout his height may attract attention and if he has "game" attention is a good thing don't you think.



Gosh whats the point of debating this. I don't see arguments when IQ is a barometer to become a scholar, I do see those with lower IQ's doing their best to show they belong and those with higher IQ's doing the same. Some less smart make it some highly intelligent fail.

It could be worse, ask a jockey about "projected size" when they were young.
Last edited by rz1
BW Bob Williams500+ posts
Let us jump to Japanese baseball.

Our American National HS teams played against the Japan HS team. It was not difficult to evaluate H. Matsui for 2 years and predict success. the same with Fukudome.

However Ichiro was not selected for the "All Japan"
HS team.He was 5'8 and 140 lbs. My son, a Mariners International scout later meet Ichiro when he played
in Kobe, the year before he signed.

He was a"little" heavier and a "true" professional hitter.

Think about this!

Pro scouts and college coaches who are below 6' may favor players of their own relative size. the same maybe true of scouts and coaches who are taller than 6'.

Bob Williams
Last edited by Bob Williams
playfairplayfair500+ posts
quote:
Kids alway trickle in to any camp or showcase


BS! We all got there 2 hours early!


I just looked up my own kid from hs roster, max preps, PG, club teams, travel rosters, etc.

each time his height and weight is listed... and not one matches the other. He has listed himself on some (I'm sure a good guess at the time), been listed by coaches on others (not so good guesses) His range on all is between 6'2" 185 and 6' 205...

for the record, he was measured at school this fall and was not quite 6'1" and a tick under 200.

In my opinion it does not matter. All the listings were approximate and all were approximately right.

Any gross misrepresentation is going to get sniffed out like bad fish.


I would tell you what I would like to see someday on a skills results profile

Location Field Conditions: early morning heavy marine layer (san diego in the spring) dry desert conditions (arizona in the summer), indoor facility, heavy winds, tall grass, artificial turf .... whatever conditions are affecting increased speeds, decreased speeds and/or velocity .... I would think that would be more important than an inch and 5 lbs.
Last edited by playfair
itsinthegameitsinthegame5,000+ posts
CD,

I will admit it.

When I first helped my son fill out the questionaire for his first PG event I listed the following:

Dad's stats - 6'9 - 265 lbs

Son's stats - 6'6 - 245 lbs

Unfortunately - we actually had to go to the events.

I remember when PG came up to me and said - "Paul - you seem a little shorter that what you listed on your questionaire."

I said - "Why do you say that".

PG said - "Because you are sitting on a regular fold out chair and your feet are not touching the ground."

It was very embarassing, to say the least.

Wink

P.S. If you are worrying about your height and weight - you should pursue a career in modeling - not baseball.
Last edited by itsinthegame
BumBum1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by CADad:
Bum,
Attitudes like that may be right but they don't make for controversial posts. Smile


CADad, there is a lot I'd LIKE to say about his current situation but #1) it isn't right, so I just shut up and #2) Cleveland Dad would just delete it anyway. Big Grin
Last edited by Bum
bballmanbballman10,000+ posts
I will say this. I probably worry about this more than my son. He just wants to compete. Contrary to what another poster mentioned, his PG profile listed that he has an athletic build (no mention of small) - even though he is 5'9". They also said he has good upside on the mound. Maybe I am making more out of it than I should.

I know this, in his PG showcase, he threw 2 no hit innings. Next event, WWBA Underclass, 5 innings of no hit ball. Next 1 2/3 in relief at that event 2 singles, no runs. He'll get noticed. I would never tell him that he can't make it because of height. I will tell him that there are a lot of very good pitchers out there and he will have to work his tail off to continue to move up the ladder. Like I said before, he kind of likes it because he thinks people underestimate him.

Keep truckin' bballson. Show them the little guys can hang with the trees!!
Last edited by bballman
playfairplayfair500+ posts
quote:
When the 6'5 pitcher throws the ball into the 5'11 batter - and the batter deposits the ball into the parking lot beyond the centerfield fence - they all become the same size.


I wish that was true.... It is not. A 6'5 guy has to flash a highly projectable tool or two and prove projectability.

A smaller framed guy has to repeatedly show how his smaller frame produces larger than its size.

Consistency is the difference. The big guy can flash inconsistent because of his "projectability" a medium or less framed guy has to repeatedly produce larger than his frame.
Last edited by playfair
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
People do lie about stats, but that's their problem so why worry about it?
I get the impression that some think that scouts and coaches don't know how to do their jobs.
I would suggest that some read the MLB scouting reports that come out right before the draft, the terms that PG uses is the language used by all scouts, small frame, lanky, loose, athletic build, upside, projectible frame, good face, mature bodied, etc. It's a scouting reporting service so why shouldn't they use that language as well?

Why would they have to give field conditions? People with experience know that if you are pitching in hot muggy FL or dry AZ the ball may do different things, but that should have no bearing, because as you move up you will learn that you have to go out and do your job whether it's hot, cold, dry, wet.

Does height matter in college recruiting, yes it does for many, as does what position you play, velo, speed, GPA, test scores, pop time, coachable, power hitter, LH/RH, how much money you need to attend, in state, out of state, top D1, mid D1, D2, D3, JUCO, NAIA, etc.

I am not going to get into the pro stuff because pro criteria is much different than college, as college is much different than HS.
Last edited by TPM
playfairplayfair500+ posts
quote:
you will not be playing very long



I agree 100% but you will be given the chance to play further.... then you have to prove your projectability at some point.

All I said is that for the prep player:

a 6'5" 200 lb guy that throws a wild 93 will be given the opportunity to go beyond his current results at a much higher level than a a 5'10" guy throwing a well honed 87.


And, I am really tired of everyone looking for a fight here. Whoever posted "this site has changed" is right. What a shame.
BumBum1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by TDad:
Question for everyone regarding " five-nine " pitchers. Are draft choices and minor league roster spots so valuable a team won't spend an airline ticket to give a proven college performer a chance?


Yes, they will TDad. Bum, Jr. was one of them but he didn't sign after high school. Like I said before, though, you've got to be something special. It is much harder, but not impossible. If your tools are below average and your height is also below average, what is the reason for not getting drafted? Probably because your tools are below average!
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