quote:Originally posted by floridafan:
I think the question is a pitcher that is 5'10 or 11 (190) and a pitcher that is 6'1" or 2 (205). Both throw 93, cruise at 89-91 and have 3 quality pitches and both get outs.
The 6'1" guy gets the nod over an inch or two...
). quote:There have been too many great players that lacked this so called ideal size.
quote:Last year at this time we watched a 5-10/170 RHP from a high school in Iowa throw 92 in our building. He also had three very good pitches. We graded him "10". I asked him how interested he was in the draft. He said, well I’m a 5’10” RHP from Iowa, I know they’re not going to pick me early enough for me to give up school. Thought to myself… What a smart kid! BTW, he was a smart kid and he will be pitching for Stanford! He is listed at Stanford the same 5-10/170 he reported to us. When he’s done there, this 5’10” pitcher will probably be seen in Pro Ball. If he does well enough we might see him in the Big Leagues someday.
quote:Drew Brees comes to mind this week.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
showme,
I understand most of what you are saying except what doors are open for those who have never hit above .200? I'm trying to think of anyone who has been recruited heavily or drafted that would fit that description.
quote:Some guy named Mendoza perhaps
quote:Originally posted by sandlotmom:quote:Originally posted by playfair:
a 6'5" 200 lb guy that throws a wild 93 will be given the opportunity to go beyond his current results at a much higher level than a a 5'10" guy throwing a well honed 87..
This is exactly what the scout told me...almost word for word.
quote:CADad
@KennieProton posted:This is an old thread but I have a similar question related to height and thought I'd post it here. My nephew is a very good player and is only about 5'5" 145 as a 2022 who red shirted due to his size (didn't help much). He's very talented and has top 10% metrics metrics as an OF. MLB aside are do D1 colleges looking a kid that's only 5'5" 150 as a 17 year old or should he be more focused on D2 or D3? He is currently tweeting at and sending video "power 5 conferences" and has gotten some responses but in his profile lists himself as 5'9 155. I think 4 inches is a bit disingenuous and he should think about being more realistic but my brother in law thinks that everyone exaggerates so it doesn't matter what you put in the profile. Thoughts from anyone with experience appreciated. I get that size shouldn't matter but reading above it probably does and a 5 inch fib seems like it could tick off some College Coaches/RCs.
I would say lying about your height by 5 inches is never a good way to make good a first impression. If he is 5'5, he's short and every coach that sees him will recognize this. Why waste time talking to schools when they're immediately going to see a 5 inch lie. Imagine a 6'0 kid trying to pass as 6'5, it would be silly. 5'11 can be 6'0 with cleats, but 5'5 is never going to be 5'9.
You can play high level baseball without size. Madrigal and Altuve do it, but they also have more than one plus tool and do it against the highest level of pitching consistently. You say his metrics are in the top 10%, top 10% of what and what are the tools?
Bottom line is he can be 6'5 or 5'1, he has to hit high 80s pitching regularly and make loud outs if he wants to play D1 baseball. 60 time, exit velo, and all those stats are absolutely useless if he can't hit the hard throwers.
To answer your question - no D1s aren't looking for 5'5 sub 150lbs players. If there happens to be a guy of that size who hits bombs against good pitching and has a great glove, exceptions can be made, but I can't think of more than 5 or 6.
Which level should he target? Has anybody indicated what type of prospect he may be? What does his summer schedule look like? Is he playing locally or is he playing in the best events against other D1 kids? I would focus on targeting baseball programs that would be a good academic fit.
I'm of the firm opinion that height and weight absolutely matter. My 2021 MIF/CF son is 5'9" (actual) and 155-160 lbs and he passes ZERO eye ball tests when he walks through the door. His measureables all fall within D1 thresholds (6.7 60, 3.87 Home to 1st, 90 OF velo, 86 INF velo) with the exception of exit velo. He's about 93 mph off a tee now and 95+ is what many say is needed to play D1. He will be there before he steps foot on college campus a year from now, but D1 didn't happen. He's headed to a good JUCO to work on getting a shot at a shorter stint in D1. With just about every camp, showcase, etc he took part in, his size was the exception. A coach's eyes always open wider when a 6'3" 210 lb kid steps on to the field. I'm not bitter, but it'd be silly to think 3 inches and 25 lbs wouldn't be a difference maker in his case. Smaller players simply need to do more to get attention. Walk in at 5'9" 160 and no one says "Awesome, I'm excited to see what THIS kid does."
Funny. My guy a while back told me " I have the fastest FB in state for pitchers under 6 ft".
Just laughed and told him he better stop growing then.
there's a kid in our area. stood out as a kid but less so now, among his age group. stands out compared to his class, though, since he's reclassed 2x. somewhere in there, though, a year was shaved off of his pg profile making it look like he reclassed "only" 1x.
ht and weight, I think, were exaggerated but he's experienced a growth spurt and his real height seems to have caught up with his listed height.
@mattys posted:there's a kid in our area. stood out as a kid but less so now, among his age group. stands out compared to his class, though, since he's reclassed 2x. somewhere in there, though, a year was shaved off of his pg profile making it look like he reclassed "only" 1x.
ht and weight, I think, were exaggerated but he's experienced a growth spurt and his real height seems to have caught up with his listed height.
I think we are going to see this a lot this year (I know it has always happened, but there is going to be a deluge in the next 12 months). Every parent that has been on the border is going to use the current situation with school uncertainty to move back a year. In our area it is already happening, even with kids that are big and hit their growth spurt. This weekend saw a 14 year 10 month old pitch in a 13u tournament. That is 2 years separation. In the past couple of weeks it has felt like many of the 2025 teams are picking up new reclassified players.
@Around_The_Horn posted:I think we are going to see this a lot this year (I know it has always happened, but there is going to be a deluge in the next 12 months). Every parent that has been on the border is going to use the current situation with school uncertainty to move back a year. In our area it is already happening, even with kids that are big and hit their growth spurt. This weekend saw a 14 year 10 month old pitch in a 13u tournament. That is 2 years separation. In the past couple of weeks it has felt like many of the 2025 teams are picking up new reclassified players.
I can see the conversation in two years "the coaching staff knows you should be on varsity bc you have the skillset of a junior but we're keeping you on freshman this year because we need someone to drive the team to away games"
@mattys posted:I can see the conversation in two years "the coaching staff knows you should be on varsity bc you have the skillset of a junior but we're keeping you on freshman this year because we need someone to drive the team to away games"
😅
Lying four inches on height is a bad move. The first impression the coach will have is the kid is dishonest and tried to trick him. My son is 6’2” in socks so the truth wasn’t an issue. But I wouldn’t go more than an inch beyond height with cleats on.
The way for a 5’5” player to draw D1 attention is be the most noticeable player on the field. Impact the game. It will draw him a second look. Then, do it again.
A 5’5” outfielder better be running a 6.6 or better sixty. Is he?
@DanJ posted:I'm of the firm opinion that height and weight absolutely matter. My 2021 MIF/CF son is 5'9" (actual) and 155-160 lbs and he passes ZERO eye ball tests when he walks through the door. His measureables all fall within D1 thresholds (6.7 60, 3.87 Home to 1st, 90 OF velo, 86 INF velo) with the exception of exit velo. He's about 93 mph off a tee now and 95+ is what many say is needed to play D1. He will be there before he steps foot on college campus a year from now, but D1 didn't happen. He's headed to a good JUCO to work on getting a shot at a shorter stint in D1. With just about every camp, showcase, etc he took part in, his size was the exception. A coach's eyes always open wider when a 6'3" 210 lb kid steps on to the field. I'm not bitter, but it'd be silly to think 3 inches and 25 lbs wouldn't be a difference maker in his case. Smaller players simply need to do more to get attention. Walk in at 5'9" 160 and no one says "Awesome, I'm excited to see what THIS kid does."
Man o’ man does this sound sooooooooo familiar, almost exactly. And when you hit .450,.500,.420 in your last 3 HS/summer seasons and still nothing you realize that they are just basing it on size. It’s a joke. Even when you put on 25lbs and get to 5’10” 160 and take care of the classroom and have great references but still nothing you really wonder what coaches are looking for.
I will say, as I have in other threads, this year with the ‘21 class it’s all just a mess. Schools just are not bringing as many position players in. So maybe that has an impact but buy and large the size thing gets thrown in our face in a daily basis. It’s maddening and depressing for the player for sure. It sad because I think a lot of players in this class will end up not playing because of the situation.
This is a great thread as we are sharing some of the same frustrations. Son just finished Freshman year, 5'11 and 160 pound SS. Straight A student. Ran a 6.73 60 at camp, posted a 91 mph exit velo off a tee at a showcase, throws 85mph across the infield and is a secondary pitcher who recently ran his fastball up to 86mph. Getting in done on both sides of the ball in live play also. Plays for a top notch travel organization and he's had minimal interest because he's been told he needs to fill out more. Meanwhile he's been watch "bigger" kids with lesser measurables get picked up.
It’s really maddening for sure. Especially when the kid clicks every intangible box you could ever want him to. So much for coaches care about the entire player and who he is. ROFL
Height has never been an issue in our family. So, we’ve never been through the ignored due to size issue. My son was 6’2” 175 when he entered college. He was still expected to get bigger (fill out), faster, stronger. Soph year he was 195. It’s like the pitcher who throws 95 and doesn’t hit the strike zone in high school. The coaches are looking at potential upside. You can’t buy size. You can’t develop size. It’s there or it isn’t. The college coaches are projecting.
Once past the top couple hundred players in a class the next potential few thousand D1 prospects tend to blend in together. Unless a player wows coaches and dominates play it becomes all about appearance and projection.
I wasn’t aware of Nick Madrigal (5’8”) until he was starring in college ball. I’m guessing he projected as a top player, not just a D1 prospect early in high school.
@4arms posted:This is a great thread as we are sharing some of the same frustrations. Son just finished Freshman year, 5'11 and 160 pound SS. Straight A student. Ran a 6.73 60 at camp, posted a 91 mph exit velo off a tee at a showcase, throws 85mph across the infield and is a secondary pitcher who recently ran his fastball up to 86mph. Getting in done on both sides of the ball in live play also. Plays for a top notch travel organization and he's had minimal interest because he's been told he needs to fill out more. Meanwhile he's been watch "bigger" kids with lesser measurables get picked up.
5’11”? That is not short.
Measurables are great to have, but you still have to hit the ball! And hit the ball in front of the right people (coaches who’s program’s you are interested in).
@KennieProton posted:This is an old thread but I have a similar question related to height and thought I'd post it here. My nephew is a very good player and is only about 5'5" 145 as a 2022 who red shirted due to his size (didn't help much). He's very talented and has top 10% metrics metrics as an OF. MLB aside are do D1 colleges looking a kid that's only 5'5" 150 as a 17 year old or should he be more focused on D2 or D3? He is currently tweeting at and sending video "power 5 conferences" and has gotten some responses but in his profile lists himself as 5'9 155. I think 4 inches is a bit disingenuous and he should think about being more realistic but my brother in law thinks that everyone exaggerates so it doesn't matter what you put in the profile. Thoughts from anyone with experience appreciated. I get that size shouldn't matter but reading above it probably does and a 5 inch fib seems like it could tick off some College Coaches/RCs.
He is 17. Power 5 are mostly done with recruiting his class. It would be a long shot to get P5 offers at this stage of his process. Short guys CAN play D1. Hit the ball!
There are other programs besides P5. Target those. Get your summer ball coach involved in promoting the player. Be on a team that faces stud pitching regularly and dominate. Dominate in front of the schools you have interest, that are still recruiting.
I can’t stress this enough: HIT THE BALL.
@4arms posted:This is a great thread as we are sharing some of the same frustrations. Son just finished Freshman year, 5'11 and 160 pound SS. Straight A student. Ran a 6.73 60 at camp, posted a 91 mph exit velo off a tee at a showcase, throws 85mph across the infield and is a secondary pitcher who recently ran his fastball up to 86mph. Getting in done on both sides of the ball in live play also. Plays for a top notch travel organization and he's had minimal interest because he's been told he needs to fill out more. Meanwhile he's been watch "bigger" kids with lesser measurables get picked up.
Your son is young, you should not worry about getting only minimal interest at this time. Let him get better at working on skills and filling out. Use next summer to show off in person.
JMO
It’s really maddening for sure. Especially when the kid clicks every intangible box you could ever want him to. So much for coaches care about the entire player and who he is. ROFL
There was a time where I allowed this to get to me. My son is small, but has D1 measurables and he checks all the intangible boxes. It used to bother me that it wasn't "fair," but I left all that baggage behind. A) it's not forward moving to live there and B) no one can blame coaches for their 21st century approach. What are coaches really doing? They're leveraging efficiencies and they're using math to make educated guesses in projecting players. In this day and age, how many coaches have tons of time to really dig deep into evaluating a kid like mine? Roughly none. You can't see my son's high AVG and OBP in a showcase or camp. You often can't see it over the course of one tourney. It's not sexy when viewed in small sample sizes. Want to get a TRUE picture of exactly what my son will give you? Well, settle it because his overall value - while high - is best viewed over time. Not with 8 swings of BP at a showcase or whatever. You'll need to be patient with my kid and that much quicker with your other recruits because your time is finite. And time is likely your most valuable commodity. Imagine being a coach who puts in the marathon for a prospect and then it turns out that it wasn't worth it. D'oh! How many marathons do you run without finishing before you're forced to try sprinting?
I always put it like this. What would Vegas say about the recruit if they were handicapping the process? The coaches know. Add up all the best college players who were most successful over the past year. Or 2, 5 or 10. Then separate them into 2 groups: 1) 5'10" and under and 2) 5'11 and above. Everyone knows which group will be larger. Much larger. That's not bias or laziness. That's just math.
So when you're pressed for time and resources and are getting pelted with 300 emails every day, a coach (who wants to keep his job) HAS to draw some lines; some thresholds under which he can't put in the time for a recruit. Height, weight, exit velo, etc can all be measured in minutes. Will a coach miss out out some amazing players operating this way? Without question. But the math clearly points to where the risk is less. We can't fault any coach for playing the best odds. That's simply smart.
