I'm surprised it hasn't been posted here yet but the IHSA approved going to 4 classes including basball. Any thoughts?
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For the 2007-2008 school year.
Good deal. Although 3 would have been better.
Enrollment Cutoffs for 4 class system (based on 2005-06 enrollment)
Class 1A---up to 289
Class 2A---289 to 714
Class 3A---714 to 1628
Class 4A---above 1628
Don't forget to include the multiplier for non boundry schools.
Class 1A---up to 289
Class 2A---289 to 714
Class 3A---714 to 1628
Class 4A---above 1628
Don't forget to include the multiplier for non boundry schools.
Wonder if we will see a "baseball enrollment" used if we see some private schools start dominating the 3A class.
What is the multiplyer?
Barely enough talent for 2 classes in baseball and they go to 4 so more kids get a chance to play for a "state" championship...
Just as in football, with the 8 classes...no one really cares about the first 4 classes except moms and dads.
Re baseball going to 4 classes...who cares?
Just as in football, with the 8 classes...no one really cares about the first 4 classes except moms and dads.
Re baseball going to 4 classes...who cares?
The multiplier is a 1.65 factor applied to all non-boundary schools which are mainly the private schools. For example, say a private school has an actual enrollment of 1,000 - multiplied enrollment for playoff purposes would be 1,650.
When you live in the deep south where there are only 3 or 4 AA schools outside of the metro east area it is a big deal. Whats wrong with playing for a state championship. It gives you a goal. Its hard to set a reasonable goal when you are a small AA school going against a school with 3,000 kids. How about that once in a lifetime class with 150 students in the whole school going against one of the largest A schools? If its good for the kids and gives them a shot to play in that atmosphere then why not. There are obviously alot more that care other than "moms or dads".
Beenthere,
Kinda a cold response. What is the downside? New groups of kids to strive towards goals, increase in school spirt,leadership development, recognition of local youth. I only see the upside for a larger group of baseball players. Except for the exceptional, the smaller schools can't compete against larger schools. Purely a numbers game.
Kinda a cold response. What is the downside? New groups of kids to strive towards goals, increase in school spirt,leadership development, recognition of local youth. I only see the upside for a larger group of baseball players. Except for the exceptional, the smaller schools can't compete against larger schools. Purely a numbers game.
The deeper message here is the same message Illinois public high schools have subscribed to for some time now and that is: "If you can't reach your goals, set the bar lower next time".
Competition in the classroom is not the same as competition on the field. I guess it easy to make a statement regarding reducing the bar
to achieve goals and tie it in to another discussion. I might even agree in regards to academics, but as a taxpayer in a school district for a high school of 3300, I know that it will be the rare "sports moment" that a school of 1900 has a chance to compete athletically head to head. Exception being the Catholic schools (Different thread) or an "exceptional" class of athletes. (Wilmington 2005)
to achieve goals and tie it in to another discussion. I might even agree in regards to academics, but as a taxpayer in a school district for a high school of 3300, I know that it will be the rare "sports moment" that a school of 1900 has a chance to compete athletically head to head. Exception being the Catholic schools (Different thread) or an "exceptional" class of athletes. (Wilmington 2005)
il2008, you have a pm.
This is a good thing. Even more classes would have been nice. Building self-confidence in our youth is very important.
Kids that aren't fortunate (per chance at title) to be enrolled at a large enrollment school should have every opportunity to success as every other kid in the state.
Goals should be accessible. Having one or two classes make achieving those goals impossible. Impossible. Did I say impossible?
A school with an enrollment of a couple of thousand winning a state title over a school with a couple of hundred is no achievement. In fact a competition at all between them is an embarrassment.
Good job IHSA
Kids that aren't fortunate (per chance at title) to be enrolled at a large enrollment school should have every opportunity to success as every other kid in the state.
Goals should be accessible. Having one or two classes make achieving those goals impossible. Impossible. Did I say impossible?
A school with an enrollment of a couple of thousand winning a state title over a school with a couple of hundred is no achievement. In fact a competition at all between them is an embarrassment.
Good job IHSA
Agree with HS dad.
SI...What is wrong with it? For schools with tiny enrollments, nothing. For a quality competitive environment, lots of things.
Just as a local writer wrote: Why not just give everyone a trophy and have hundreds of classes?
SI...What is wrong with it? For schools with tiny enrollments, nothing. For a quality competitive environment, lots of things.
Just as a local writer wrote: Why not just give everyone a trophy and have hundreds of classes?
I'll bet Beenthere and hsdad's kids don't go to schools with very small enrollments.
The local writer must not have the pulse of the rest of the state. That is a typical response from a big city writer who has apparently never played in a high school with 150-200 kids like most of us in the south did. If he did then he apparently just didnt understand the diversity of population in our state and how it relates to the competitive balance in most sports.
Beenthere,
Comments such as quoted by your local writer is probably the main reason he/she/it, is just a "local writer." One must really work hard to make such dumb statements.
I must be missing something in regards to this thread. How does allowing a school with an enrollment of 1620 students (public)play other schools with a like enrollment level to compete for a specific class championship, hurt a program like Lockport, Stevenson or Oak Park? Can such a school have a successful season under the current system? Yes, a FEW smaller enrollment schools did well last year. Do they have a chance to ever make it into the finals with the former format? I will go out on a limb and say it would be a longshot at best.
I think the IHSA did a great service to all of their constituents in this revision of classes. They did not even have to "give everyone a trophy or (create) hundreds of classes." I bet the IHSA never even had such a re-design concept open for discussion. Someone tell the reporter.
Comments such as quoted by your local writer is probably the main reason he/she/it, is just a "local writer." One must really work hard to make such dumb statements.
I must be missing something in regards to this thread. How does allowing a school with an enrollment of 1620 students (public)play other schools with a like enrollment level to compete for a specific class championship, hurt a program like Lockport, Stevenson or Oak Park? Can such a school have a successful season under the current system? Yes, a FEW smaller enrollment schools did well last year. Do they have a chance to ever make it into the finals with the former format? I will go out on a limb and say it would be a longshot at best.
I think the IHSA did a great service to all of their constituents in this revision of classes. They did not even have to "give everyone a trophy or (create) hundreds of classes." I bet the IHSA never even had such a re-design concept open for discussion. Someone tell the reporter.
quote:by your local writer is probably the main reason he/she/it, is just a "local writer." One must really work hard to make such dumb statements.
lsc...Why do you have to resort to name-calling the writer because you don't agree with his views?
I don't agree with a lot of things.
The guy writes for the Sun-Times. In my opinion, he's good. Better than anyone that writes for the Charleston Times Courier, for example.
I think he makes better points than some others even though both points of view are presented in the Sports section.
So far, neither one of you who likes the "new" class system, has responded to my questions: Why stop at 4 or 8? Why not give every kid in the state a trophy and declare him or her a State Champion? Why not make everyone feel good?
Just because I don't choose to be politically correct; or, because a writer chooses not to be politically correct on an issue, does not mean that that opinion needs to be challenged or that the person needs be subjected to "name-calling".
That is AOL chat room stuff.
Beenthere,
I have no problem with your viewpoint of the new changes as stated in your orginal statement. I just thought I would give you my opinions as others did as well. I am fine with anyones opinion but what was written was not really an opinion was it? I have never been in a AOL chatroom but I am sure I have seen much...no... much worse on this site from time to time. In the future, please refrain from lecturing me on board manners. If coach thinks that I was out of line, I am sure I would have received a P.M. by now. I have not.
My calling a supposed writer who makes statements as you quoted could easily be called much worst. I once knew a guy who slepted on the sise of the road..I called him dumb too. In fairness to the writer, I did not read the articles rather only the portion that you posted.
I am happy that you like a writer who pens an acticle about the impossibilities of a hundred classes of baseball and trophys for everyone within IHSA baseball; because he is unhappy with a revised system agreed upon the members of a given organization, as dumb. After further thought and assuming the rest of the article is in the same vain, I would revise my statement to included unprofessional.
Now to answer your question from your last post... it would be o.k. to form six classes or follow the IHSA football format. Seems like others agree. Less than hundred and more than two. Though, I do feel bad for the lost revenue flowing into tax base due to a projected decrease in revenue from trophy sales. potential increase in trophy sales.
I have no problem with your viewpoint of the new changes as stated in your orginal statement. I just thought I would give you my opinions as others did as well. I am fine with anyones opinion but what was written was not really an opinion was it? I have never been in a AOL chatroom but I am sure I have seen much...no... much worse on this site from time to time. In the future, please refrain from lecturing me on board manners. If coach thinks that I was out of line, I am sure I would have received a P.M. by now. I have not.
My calling a supposed writer who makes statements as you quoted could easily be called much worst. I once knew a guy who slepted on the sise of the road..I called him dumb too. In fairness to the writer, I did not read the articles rather only the portion that you posted.
I am happy that you like a writer who pens an acticle about the impossibilities of a hundred classes of baseball and trophys for everyone within IHSA baseball; because he is unhappy with a revised system agreed upon the members of a given organization, as dumb. After further thought and assuming the rest of the article is in the same vain, I would revise my statement to included unprofessional.
Now to answer your question from your last post... it would be o.k. to form six classes or follow the IHSA football format. Seems like others agree. Less than hundred and more than two. Though, I do feel bad for the lost revenue flowing into tax base due to a projected decrease in revenue from trophy sales. potential increase in trophy sales.
Gees.
Reggie,
I think very highly of BeentherelL ....just disagree with him on a couple issues regarding post and responses. Reggie, you are too funny.
It is still too wet to play but longtoss worked out for both boys today.
Reggie,
Please answer the question that inquiring minds want to know. What team are you affliated with or play for....people keep asking and you never respond. Are you a ghost poster or Coach in disguise?
I think very highly of BeentherelL ....just disagree with him on a couple issues regarding post and responses. Reggie, you are too funny.
It is still too wet to play but longtoss worked out for both boys today.
Reggie,
Please answer the question that inquiring minds want to know. What team are you affliated with or play for....people keep asking and you never respond. Are you a ghost poster or Coach in disguise?
lsc...I agree. We disagree. That is all.
Not sure why reggie got his shorts ruffled.
Not sure why reggie got his shorts ruffled.
I'm not in favor of 4 class. I am of 3. WE'VE NEVER CRIED ABOUT HAVING TWO. Regardless, the discussion here really is a Chicago area argument vs the rest of the state. People in our area DO care about the smaller classes of ball. I even follow those classes. Here in the Metro East, We are mostly 5A, 6A and 7A in football. We do have one or two 8A. Georgraphically, and disregarding population, I would imagine that most of the state follows small school football.
Back to Baseball. We are a school of 1,300. Is this good for us? Sure. However, we're not afraid of the big boys. We've never turned and hid before when getting eliminated by schools of 2,400 and more. So now, maybe we will have a chance. The problem is, there are now those that will call this a "tainted" championship should any school such as our win.
...and you know what matters the most, those kids that do win those newly created classes will still smile on those championship pictures.
Back to Baseball. We are a school of 1,300. Is this good for us? Sure. However, we're not afraid of the big boys. We've never turned and hid before when getting eliminated by schools of 2,400 and more. So now, maybe we will have a chance. The problem is, there are now those that will call this a "tainted" championship should any school such as our win.
...and you know what matters the most, those kids that do win those newly created classes will still smile on those championship pictures.
CoachB25,
I am a big fan of the smiling faces I have seen after the IHSA football championship games. Same smile for all the different class champions. The point raised of three classes vs. four classes is interesting. What was the mechanisms involved and the politics for the IHSA to choose four levels vs. the three levels.
I am a big fan of the smiling faces I have seen after the IHSA football championship games. Same smile for all the different class champions. The point raised of three classes vs. four classes is interesting. What was the mechanisms involved and the politics for the IHSA to choose four levels vs. the three levels.
St. Rita wins the 3A in 2008 mark it down.
Reggie
What team do you play for in Florida ?
What team do you play for in Florida ?
Reggie,
To answer your question. I am a parent of a college and a high school player. Coached at various levels over the years. Managed last team in 2005. How about you? You are the mystery man of the Illinois board? Whats your take on the new classes determined by the IHSA? Do you play baseball in Florida or a different sport. And yes, you are the mellow of the mellow. Sharing goes a long way.
To answer your question. I am a parent of a college and a high school player. Coached at various levels over the years. Managed last team in 2005. How about you? You are the mystery man of the Illinois board? Whats your take on the new classes determined by the IHSA? Do you play baseball in Florida or a different sport. And yes, you are the mellow of the mellow. Sharing goes a long way.
Reggie,
No...good luck to you "down south." I will miss your post.
No...good luck to you "down south." I will miss your post.
quote:Originally posted by BeenthereIL:
Barely enough talent for 2 classes in baseball and they go to 4 so more kids get a chance to play for a "state" championship...
Just as in football, with the 8 classes...no one really cares about the first 4 classes except moms and dads.
Beenthere, I think you raise some valid points. But I have spent some time in small-town Illinois and I can tell you that these championships mean an awful lot to these towns, not just "moms and dads" just being in the hunt is a big deal in some of these places...and why not?
On the other hand, while the smaller classes seem pretty close together in terms of the difference in size of schools, the schools with that number at about 1700 will be playing against schools 2 to 3 times as big in some cases. I guess for a small school to have to play a school with 400-600 more students is unacceptable but for a school of 1700, it is no problem to have to compete against schools with 2000 more students. If this is to be done, there should be a mega-class including the Private Sports Factory Teams and any school over 2500-2700 students.
Re baseball going to 4 classes...who cares?
CoachB25,
One last point before I hit the hay. I don't think anyone who understands baseball, even at the most basic level, would thinks a championship by a program such as yours would be "tainted".
The "best programs" seek out competition outside their comfort level and set standards at the highest levels. It seems to me that you have fiqured out that part out.
I would like to see an increase level of spring inter-state tournament play for cultural, social, competitive reasons across the state. If that could occur, it would be really a postive for everyone. If I could fiqure out how to maintain my present employment, I would be honored to have you coach my son regardless of what division you might be slotted. Plus there is a diner in Highland that makes the best pies/cakes in the world.
One last point before I hit the hay. I don't think anyone who understands baseball, even at the most basic level, would thinks a championship by a program such as yours would be "tainted".
The "best programs" seek out competition outside their comfort level and set standards at the highest levels. It seems to me that you have fiqured out that part out.
I would like to see an increase level of spring inter-state tournament play for cultural, social, competitive reasons across the state. If that could occur, it would be really a postive for everyone. If I could fiqure out how to maintain my present employment, I would be honored to have you coach my son regardless of what division you might be slotted. Plus there is a diner in Highland that makes the best pies/cakes in the world.
Watered down "state championships" in baseball...GREAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!
I sure hope they go to 4 classes for water polo and badmiton soon too! Then ALL 4 teams in the state in those sports can win a championship. It should certainly boost the "confidence" of those kids participating
Based on this years enrollment St Rita would by a 4a school as would Prividence, Mt Carmel, and Carmel. JCA would be 3A as would CoachB's Triad. Some of the other top 3A's would be Bartonville, Springfield Sacred Heart, Woddstock Marian, Illiana, Cl Central and Montini. I posted the class breakdowns in an earlier post and you can get the enrollments form the IHSA website. So in 2008 I'd take JCA in 3a but knowing a few of the St Rita 08's and 09's I'd give them a good chance at the 4a title.
i think this four class system will not be the same its going to turn baseball into football system.... when i was in high school i remember going into the baseball playoffs knowing that there is nothing like it because you have to be fully focused from game one until the last game and that was because there were no "slouches" for teams in my area and every team that we played was a top level team..... all this is doing is letting weaker competition play. the past years it was such an accomplishment getting to a state championship because you knew you were the best and you had to play the best... im not saying its not going to be an accomplishment to get there now but it will never be the same.... never. also it is taking alot of the rivalries away .... coming from my standpoint (jca) we will not play a lockport or a joliet township or either lincoln way schools in the playoffs just because they have 2000 more kids then our school but those are the games that we lived for... we would play all of them in the regular season and win or lose we knew we would have to play them again... all in all i dont like the four class system three might have been reasonable for the really small schools but ithink it just hurts the level of competition and in the end will hurt illinois as a whole for baseball "second best should not be an option"
A 4 class system DOES give a lot of kids at smaller schools a CHANCE to get to a state tournament rather than just getting knocked out in the Regional or Sectional YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR!!!!
SIBullets knows what he is talking about and he is very familiar with many different HS baseball programs in Central and Southern Illinois.
If you don't like the 2 class system being changed to 4 classes that is okay. Just don't "beat up" all the HS kids out there that want a real CHANCE in the post season.
SIBullets knows what he is talking about and he is very familiar with many different HS baseball programs in Central and Southern Illinois.
If you don't like the 2 class system being changed to 4 classes that is okay. Just don't "beat up" all the HS kids out there that want a real CHANCE in the post season.
My son's scholl will not be affected by the change. they still will play the largest schools in the State. I don't understnd why people are upset about 4 classes. Let little scholls compete on an even playing field. There are plenty of schools at all levels to make it tough to win a championship.
If you go to a national elite travel ball tournament there are 64 teams at some of the biggest "world series" tournaments. there should be plenty of high schools at each level to make it tough to win a championship.
Most of the complaints are coming from larger schools. You end up facing the perenial powers at the end og the road, so if the "weaker" smaller schools are playing each other, who does that hurt?
If you go to a national elite travel ball tournament there are 64 teams at some of the biggest "world series" tournaments. there should be plenty of high schools at each level to make it tough to win a championship.
Most of the complaints are coming from larger schools. You end up facing the perenial powers at the end og the road, so if the "weaker" smaller schools are playing each other, who does that hurt?
My understanding is that these changes were made as a result of questionaires sent out to the schools. I also understand that a very small numer of schools actually submitted the questionaires back to the IHSA. If so, shame on the schools for not doing the questionaires and shame on the IHSA for taking advantage of it to put in what they wanted to.
The Class 4 playoffs will be extremely competitive.....it will be a tough task to make it downstate for the final four in Class 4. 3 will be as well but not quite as much.
quote:If you don't like the 2 class system being changed to 4 classes that is okay. Just don't "beat up" all the HS kids out there that want a real CHANCE in the post season.
Strike...No one is beating up on anyone.
Which competitive kid, at any class level, doesn't have a "real CHANCE in the post season."
I get it....In your opinion....If you can't compete with the big boys, create more classes so that mommy and daddy are happy to see junior or sissy play; and, therefore, you can say that you were a State Champion in Class 346 of 346 classes!