What are the academic requirements for a player that decides to come back for another senior year? It seems the education part of the conversation is not even mentioned. In the higher academics, I would hope that most seniors were on track to graduate in May and move on. Now what do they do, go take some meaningless classes just to play ball? Or try to get into a graduate program they had not planned on doing? Do they have to go to classes in the fall? I would think this might apply to most lower level D1s as well.
Depends on the program.
Some schools like UVA requires their seniors to graduate in 4 years and they take 15 hrs/semester.
Other schools only have the players carry 12 hrs and that "buys" the school another year of tuition, so a 5 year plan.
So a lot of the guys, unless they're at schools like UVA or Ivy, have remaining hours needed in order to graduate after playing for 4 years.... unless they came in with AP classes or college credits or did summer school.
Eokerholm posted:Depends on the program.
Some schools like UVA requires their seniors to graduate in 4 years and they take 15 hrs/semester.
Other schools only have the players carry 12 hrs and that "buys" the school another year of tuition, so a 5 year plan.
So a lot of the guys, unless they're at schools like UVA or Ivy, have remaining hours needed in order to graduate after playing for 4 years.... unless they came in with AP classes or college credits or did summer school.
Exactly right! Especially if a player has a demanding major. At the top 100 D1 programs very few players graduate in 4 years.
everypitch posted:What are the academic requirements for a player that decides to come back for another senior year? It seems the education part of the conversation is not even mentioned. In the higher academics, I would hope that most seniors were on track to graduate in May and move on. Now what do they do, go take some meaningless classes just to play ball? Or try to get into a graduate program they had not planned on doing? Do they have to go to classes in the fall? I would think this might apply to most lower level D1s as well.
Outside being a waste of money a player could do the following. Take twelve of the easiest credits available in the fall. Don’t bother with class in the spring, play baseball and walk away when the season is over.
A friend’s son said once one of his teammates knew he was going in one of the first two rounds (went in the first) he stopped going to class spring of junior year at a high academic.
I can assure you that’s not how it works. Now if they want to change the rules they can but you can’t just take 3-4 “electives” and skate through. And you have to carry courses to be able to be eligible for baseball in season.
You can declare that you are seeking a different major at most universities and take classes leading to that. It will cost you but the right advisors at P5's especially can help you take candy classes in the fall for minimum and I know a couple of guys who said they were wanting to take PE classes to work to sports administration from a business degree. A couple of easy business management classes added in and there you go. Two semesters of candy classes. It's according to how bad you want to play an extra year.
Fmr coach now Dad posted:I can assure you that’s not how it works. Now if they want to change the rules they can but you can’t just take 3-4 “electives” and skate through. And you have to carry courses to be able to be eligible for baseball in season.
That's right. I think that you have to declare a minor. Schools are going to have to make their budgets go a long way and they are not going to accomplish that by letting players take 12 credits of electives or not go to class!
I can tell you i am dealing with somebody with that exact scenario , major and everything, as a grad student and they are being told that right now, as it’s stands , that is not an option. Not sure what to tell you.
"Candy Classes"??? What a waste of time & money! Somebody needs to reevaluate their 4 yr vs 40 yr plan! Baseball is/was a game & privilege for College athletes. Start your career, become a professional...
jmo , off soap box
baseballmom posted:"Candy Classes"???
What a waste of time & money! Somebody needs to reevaluate their 4 yr vs 40 yr plan! Baseball is/was a game & privilege for College athletes. Start your career, become a professional...
jmo , off soap box
I am glad that you got on your soap box. I find it insulting. It doesnt speak well for P5 or any advisors, these people work their butts off to make sure players graduate on time.
Fmr coach now Dad posted:I can assure you that’s not how it works. Now if they want to change the rules they can but you can’t just take 3-4 “electives” and skate through. And you have to carry courses to be able to be eligible for baseball in season.
All a player has to do is say they’re adding a minor (an easy one) and select the twelve easiest credits available. A player absolutely can skate through a semester to get in that 5th corona year. He doesn’t even have to bother to attend class in the spring as long as he doesn’t have a coach who checks.
I’m not saying it’s right. I’m not saying it isn’t a waste of money. I don’t endorse it. But it can be done.
I am starting to worry about you guys! I realize it is a baseball website but good God it is a great game played for fun while you get a degree for the rest of your life.
There’s a difference between what should be done and what could be done. Above I explained how to exploit the system. With an injury year and five to play four my son left college with a BA and an MBA. One of his friends (high school classmate) was blossoming into an NFL prospect, stayed in college for a fifth year to enhance his draftability and picked up a second major that related to his first.
I frown on kids going to expensive D3 Crapola College just to play ball when their state university is a less expensive, far superior education.
You have to and should go to class to be eligible. I would be cautioned if my coach didn’t care or I force academics. You’re there for an education too, if you aren’t or aren’t taking advantage of it you’re an idiot. Corbin benched guys for turning stuff in late or missing class. At UVA O’Connor told us, you get 3 absences or the teacher can fail you.
You have to be eligible to play.
RJM posted:Fmr coach now Dad posted:I can assure you that’s not how it works. Now if they want to change the rules they can but you can’t just take 3-4 “electives” and skate through. And you have to carry courses to be able to be eligible for baseball in season.
All a player has to do is say they’re adding a minor (an easy one) and select the twelve easiest credits available. A player absolutely can skate through a semester to get in that 5th corona year. He doesn’t even have to bother to attend class in the spring as long as he doesn’t have a coach who checks.
I’m not saying it’s right. I’m not saying it isn’t a waste of money. I don’t endorse it. But it can be done.
Coaches check now. It’s not like when we played in the Stone Age
adbono posted:RJM posted:Fmr coach now Dad posted:I can assure you that’s not how it works. Now if they want to change the rules they can but you can’t just take 3-4 “electives” and skate through. And you have to carry courses to be able to be eligible for baseball in season.
All a player has to do is say they’re adding a minor (an easy one) and select the twelve easiest credits available. A player absolutely can skate through a semester to get in that 5th corona year. He doesn’t even have to bother to attend class in the spring as long as he doesn’t have a coach who checks.
I’m not saying it’s right. I’m not saying it isn’t a waste of money. I don’t endorse it. But it can be done.
Coaches check now. It’s not like when we played in the Stone Age
Every day, rain or shine, 6:30 am academic advisor sends coaches a report.
RJM posted:Fmr coach now Dad posted:I can assure you that’s not how it works. Now if they want to change the rules they can but you can’t just take 3-4 “electives” and skate through. And you have to carry courses to be able to be eligible for baseball in season.
All a player has to do is say they’re adding a minor (an easy one) and select the twelve easiest credits available. A player absolutely can skate through a semester to get in that 5th corona year. He doesn’t even have to bother to attend class in the spring as long as he doesn’t have a coach who checks.
I’m not saying it’s right. I’m not saying it isn’t a waste of money. I don’t endorse it. But it can be done.
Regarding that corona year, the NCAA gave the athletes another year of eligibility, not necessarily at the same program. You won't necessarily be able to take candy credits just to go play baseball when everyone else is doing the same thing. Coaches know and will reward those that think they can beat the system.
They will also take 6 freshman for 6 seniors.
Some of you are on high horses with blinders on. Open the eyes and look at SEC football. Guys play 3 years and end up with 48 credit hours. They don't even really go their senior year. They register and go enough not to be dropped. Baseball is no different some places. We are talking about guys who have graduated and are trying to figure out how to cheaply stay another year to be eligible for a higher draft slot. I'm not talking guys who are getting degrees in biosomething. I'm talking the guy who is there for baseball and has graduated or only needs a class or two to graduate and wants to come back to give himself a better shot at the draft. Those guys will take as few as they can in the fall and as easy as they can. They will register in the spring and go enough to stay eligible. I would say the coaches that are letting these seniors come back will not argue a bit with these players for doing it. They know why the player is coming back and they know they are getting something for very little. They are getting a guy who should have been drafted but was given a free pass to get an extra year to earn a living.
My son is on schedule to graduate in 3 or at the most 3 1/2 so this gives him an extra year to get an extra degree if he doesn't get drafted after his now corona sophomore year, or corona junior year.
baseballmom posted:"Candy Classes"???
jmo , off soap box
Some guys 40 year plan is baseball. They plan to play the game at the next level and then coach so this does fit into their 40 year plan. Not everybody wants to be a doctor, lawyer, business owner. Some want to continue in the game as long as possible and that is not a bad long-term plan. I have three of those. They may never get rich but they will love their job.
I know of 4-5 former players whose parents have been or are contributors on this site the last 18-20 years. All went on to Coach or other job in College or pro ball after playing days ended. I assure you, they didn't take "candy classes". Hopefully you realize the number of players who may have an opportunity at 40 yr career in baseball is minute. Bottom line, most Seniors who are on target to graduate, should look long & hard on reality. This corona crap is a nightmare & has created a huge bottle-neck which will go on the next 2-3-4 years. And the draft is now an even longer shot...You know full well, or should...the "chances" in baseball are more scarce than ever for the foreseeable future!
If someone wants candy classes, enroll in Culinary Institute of America!
How come when folks mention tough classes (biosomething) it’s ALWAYS a science course?
As an erstwhile English major I really resent it. Try writing a sestina and get back to me.
Smokeinside I did not mean to be inferior to your field. I have no idea what a sinesta is or know bio anything other than lately I feel like I am getting a minor in the medical field of diseases. Baseballmom the topic was not guys getting degrees to coach but guys going back for an extra year to get to play one more year. I’m saying if they have graduated and don’t want a masters they will and can take easy classes. Btw, my son is one of those who coaches college and has a masters so I know what they go through. But this is a very unique situation which will bring about unique decisions. My statement was to the fact that none will take easy classes to play. That is ridiculous. Some will take enough to be eligible as football and basketball players do routinely.
smokeminside posted:How come when folks mention tough classes (biosomething) it’s ALWAYS a science course?
As an erstwhile English major I really resent it. Try writing a sestina and get back to me.
People pay you to write a Sestina? Looks like I found my new side hustle during “shelter-in-place”.
Just kidding. Bored, and I couldn’t resist.
My new word for the day. I will have to see if my former literature teaching wife knows what a sestina is. I first thought it said siesta. I knew I had that in my repertoire. Can you write a sestina for Corona Baseball? I'm intriqued now. a poem with six stanzas of six lines and a final triplet, all stanzas having the same six words at the line-ends in six different sequences that follow a fixed pattern, and with all six words appearing in the closing three-line envoi.
Then I had to look up what a envoi was. You've earned my respect smokeminside. Next time I want to talk intellectual I will use English majors that writes sestinas. You taught me something tonight. I know there are very few baseball players taking sestina classes their corona year after graduation to get by.
I'm not sure why the concept of taking easy classes is so controversial. On every visit/campus tour the major/classes conversation always came up. One coach said "I don't care if you major in physics or sororities, as long as you stay eligible and aren't overwhelmed with both, do what you like." Another coach suggested Parks and Recreation as a major, his players seemed to like that.
I'm not entirely sure why it's a joke or insulting. If the classes are so easy and insulting to those who work hard - why does the school even offer them to begin with? A college will never not take your money. If you want to go back as a post grad and just take classes for the sake of taking classes nobody will stop you as long as the check clears. Clemson offers a Masters in Athletic Leadership. Duke offers an undergraduate degree in Canadian Studies. Penn State offers a degree in Turf Management. People pay 50k a year to major in a language when you can pay $80 once for Rosetta Stone.
I'll tell you one thing. It might not be a wise investment or entirely practical, but that boosted GPA from the cupcake courses will reflect very well on both the coaches, the university, and on yourself if GPA ever comes up with a future employer.
PABaseball posted:I'm not sure why the concept of taking easy classes is so controversial. On every visit/campus tour the major/classes conversation always came up. One coach said "I don't care if you major in physics or sororities, as long as you stay eligible and aren't overwhelmed with both, do what you like." Another coach suggested Parks and Recreation as a major, his players seemed to like that.
I'm not entirely sure why it's a joke or insulting. If the classes are so easy and insulting to those who work hard - why does the school even offer them to begin with? A college will never not take your money. If you want to go back as a post grad and just take classes for the sake of taking classes nobody will stop you as long as the check clears. Clemson offers a Masters in Athletic Leadership. Duke offers an undergraduate degree in Canadian Studies. Penn State offers a degree in Turf Management. People pay 50k a year to major in a language when you can pay $80 once for Rosetta Stone.
I'll tell you one thing. It might not be a wise investment or entirely practical, but that boosted GPA from the cupcake courses will reflect very well on both the coaches, the university, and on yourself if GPA ever comes up with a future employer.
If you think turf management is a cupcake course I would encourage you to sign up
I don't, there is some legitimate science involved. But I also just went through three different school's programs. The overwhelming majority of the program does not revolve around that. Make it a graduate degree and get down to the science of it and you won't hear a word from me.
PABaseball posted:I don't, there is some legitimate science involved. But I also just went through three different school's programs. The overwhelming majority of the program does not revolve around that. Make it a graduate degree and get down to the science of it and you won't hear a word from me.
No worries. I think we all have too much time on our hands
Pitching Fan: "I know there are very few baseball players taking sestina classes their corona year after graduation to get by."
This is funny. Admire your research, too!
For the record, I hate sestinas. Just couldn't resist, either.
I think they are sad
writing efforts by a fop
for his King and Queen
interesting take from an Ivy League senior... https://dartmouthsports.com/news/2020/3/20/baseball-senior-perspective-on-the-fallout-from-the-coronavirus-200320.aspx.
Re: candy courses ...
I took a candy course each spring semester to lighten the load academically during the season. Geology 101 was known as “rocks for jocks.” Religion 101 was known as “praying for A’s.” Urban Studies 101 was known as “A’s in the hood.” There was always a poly sci professor who would give an A for condemning capitalism in your papers no matter how poorly they were written.
These were elective courses. They didn’t steer me away from a major in Econ with a concentration in Quantitative Methodology. I advised my kids to take one easy course during the season. My son had the same major as I. My daughter majored in Forensic Science with a minor in criminology and French. I used to tease her she was majoring in being Inspector Clouseau.
I was in college before academics for athletes was taken seriously. It was when athletes could just take twelve of the easiest credits they could find without working towards a degree. I’m against this. Athletes go into college thinking they’re going to turn pro. But it doesn’t happen for a large majority. Take advantage of a free, or in the case of baseball partially free education.
I remember Irv Eatman went through UCLA without being able to read. A lot of his courses were taken for him. This is absurd at any college. It’s incredibly absurd at an academic institution like UCLA..
Creighton used Kevin Ross. He finished four years of basketball with two and a half years of credit. He was functionally illiterate. He was humble enough to go back to second grade in his twenties and learn to read.
As everyone knows the rules on athletes and academics are much different now. But we all know one and done athletes aren’t busting themselves academically.
RJM posted:Re: candy courses ...
I took a candy course each spring semester to lighten the load academically during the season. Geology 101 was known as “rocks for jocks.” Religion 101 was known as “praying for A’s.” Urban Studies 101 was known as “A’s in the hood.” There was always a poly sci professor who would give an A for condemning capitalism in your papers no matter how poorly they were written.
These were elective courses. They didn’t steer me away from a major in Econ with a concentration in Quantitative Methodology. I advised my kids to take one easy course during the season. My son had the same major as I. My daughter majored in Forensic Science with a minor in criminology and French. I used to tease her she was majoring in being Inspector Clouseau.
I was in college before academics for athletes was taken seriously. It was when athletes could just take twelve of the easiest credits they could find without working towards a degree. I’m against this. Athletes go into college thinking they’re going to turn pro. But it doesn’t happen for a large majority. Take advantage of a free, or in the case of baseball partially free education.
Taking one class per semester is not the same as taking 2 semesters of candy classes.
Everyone knows that baseball players want to take the easy road, so that they can pass, not fail. Everyone needs a specific amount of electives if they are not taking a harder workload. But I am pretty sure that taking 2 semesters of candy classes when programs and parents pocketbooks are stretched to the max financially is gonna work.
JMO
RJM posted:Re: candy courses ...I
I took a candy course each spring semester to lighten the load academically during the season. Geology 101 was known as “rocks for jocks.” Religion 101 was known as “praying for A’s.” Urban Studies 101 was known as “A’s in the hood.” There was always a poly sci professor who would give an A for condemning capitalism in your papers no matter how poorly they were written.
These were elective courses. They didn’t steer me away from a major in Econ with a concentration in Quantitative Methodology. I advised my kids to take one easy course during the season. My son had the same major as I. My daughter majored in Forensic Science with a minor in criminology and French. I used to tease her she was majoring in being Inspector Clouseau.
I was in college before academics for athletes was taken seriously. It was when athletes could just take twelve of the easiest credits they could find without working towards a degree. I’m against this. Athletes go into college thinking they’re going to turn pro. But it doesn’t happen for a large majority. Take advantage of a free, or in the case of baseball partially free education.
I remember Irv Eatman went through UCLA without being able to read. A lot of his courses were taken for him. This is absurd at any college. It’s incredibly absurd at an academic institution like UCLA..
Creighton used Kevin Ross. He finished four years of basketball with two and a half years of credit. He was functionally illiterate. He was humble enough to go back to second grade in his twenties and learn to read.
As everyone knows the rules on athletes and academics are much different now. But we all know one and done athletes aren’t busting themselves academically.
Not challenging here but could you have mistaken Irv Eatman and UCLA for Dexter Manley and Oklahoma State? Manley's struggles with reading were well documented had not heard Eatman struggled with same. Although my being from Oklahoma and a Sooner fan I can attest there are far more OSU grads/attendees who struggle with any type of intellectual activity far beyond Dexter Manley. Just kidding...sort of...
Almost any subject can be worth studying if you approach it in a serious and focused enough way. (Whether such study is worth $85k per year is another question...) When I was in college, one of my favorite profs was a well-known religion scholar who every year would give a command performance of a lecture on the telephone book. It was always well attended and was funny and surprisingly interesting. The prof explained how it came about this way: He was traveling and spent the night in a small town motel. He had nothing to read, and the only books in the room were a Gideon Bible and the telephone book. "Well, the Bible is work for me. So I picked up the phone book."
--Medieval literature major who ended up working as a lawyer for high-tech companies
Whoa! A sestina compadre!
I'm the one who called them candy classes and I know a lot of guys that take them in all sports in college. Yes. I do believe there will be some returning seniors who will take them just to stay eligible. Not my plan for my kids but it is done every year. I just talked to my son at lunch about taking a couple of classes locally at a juco this summer to get ahead and maybe graduate in 2 1/2 years and get his masters while he is there since he wants to be a coach and most colleges require it to be a head coach. Since he could now play for 5 years.
We all know that you called them candy classes. The issue is, you aren't an academic advisor, so be careful what you post, and when you do site where you got the info.
RJM posted a good article. Everyone should read.
I think that it is unwise to assume coaches will honor a commitment passed what was in a signed legal document unless the player is exceptional. Might be wise to ask questions before anything is done. Coaches are not obligated passed their commitment.
If you don't like what I write, then move on. I don't know what your problem is. You seem to think everything is a shot at coaches or your son, it is not. I've never said anything negative about your son or a particular coach. My original statement was there would be some returning good seniors who would like to increase their stock with the MLB by taking easy classes for another year to try to get drafted. I don't know what is so argumentative about that. I would guess half the people on here have taken an easy class at some point to get their degree. As has been said, there are lots of guys that do that at almost all P5 schools in almost every sport and I would say at most schools except maybe the high academic schools. I don't think most coaches would turn down a very good returning senior who wants to try to help himself and his team. No. They do not have to take them back and no one has said they have to but most will. IMO.
I did not know that we had to cite all radio programs we hear and relay on here. I will make sure I document the station and the person and the DJ from now on for the record. Would you like the time also. AGain, I get on here to talk baseball and what is going on and relay things to others. There are several articles and radio programs that have talked about the illegal recruiting that is happening at this time so I will send you a list as I hear them. I don't know why that would surprise you. I would be willing to bet that every day when you talk about there are 347 NCAA schools
www.athleticscholarships.net › division-1-colleges-schools
and there are 24 sports http://www.ncaa.org/student-athletes Which accounts for 8,675 chances for coaches and others to mishandle recruits. I know not all schools have 25 sports but to make the point. There are probably 100s of illegal recruiting activities happening every day. Not at any one single program but throughout the NCAA. Most are just not reported. So I don't know why you took offense to me saying someone said it about this time. I have seen and heard them on numerous occasions throughout my coaching time. On all levels of college and in numerous sports. Some blatant and some minor.
BTW, it is cite not site. Cite is to quote and site is a place. Just saying.
Maybe instead of candy courses, we should just call them English courses?
Offered for your reading (dis)pleasure:
There were some bloggers of baseball
who wrote comments and gave them their all
some musings were cute-ish
while others felt brutish
but all hoped the virus would fall.
smokeminside posted:Maybe instead of candy courses, we should just call them English courses?
Offered for your reading (dis)pleasure:
There were some bloggers of baseball
who wrote comments and gave them their all
some musings were cute-ish
while others felt brutish
but all hoped the virus would fall.
But can you write it as a villanelle?