Inmates are running the asylum...

Nothing frustrates me more than being interrupted by either football or basketball. As a high school coach (in a fairly small school) I never impede on them but they want to always step on our time... Advice: I don't have any because I'd have to be the one there to "feel" the entire climate. I try to work with people the best I can but man it is frustrating.

Why not go and invite a few quality players to join the team just for the tournament? If it is a highly regarded tournament, it shouldn't be hard at all to pick up a quality player, or three. That is done pretty regularly with 18u baseball. There was a local kid in our town, didn't play for us, who played on an Ohio team for the Perfect Game/WWBA Championships last summer. I can only imagine what it cost that team to bring him out from California.

Larry,
06Cdad has I good suggestion - I might also suggest that your pal take another look at his sports yr calender

he's "cheating" a bit by defining other sports season(s) by their HS season,
then stretching (his) baseball season beyond by combining HS + SUMMER seasons


.

Many parents and kids have no sense of committment any more--

quote:

Many parents and kids have no sense of committment any more--

that's not a fair statement & I'd bet the basketball coach would agree
as HE got the COMMITTMENT


summer is OFFSEASON for ALL "SCHOOL" sports

summer is INSEASON for AAU Baseball and AAU Basketball and other youth sports

the guy's team had several players committed to MORE THAN ONE SPORT during the SAME season
even a blind guy could have seen conflicts comming

he asked them to make a choice - THEY MADE IT

now the ball's in his court, he either accomodates them OR fills their spots with other players
and life goes on


.

The choices are pretty well defined.

1. Don't go to that tournament.
2. Pick up a couple of replacements for that weekend.
3. Replace those two players on the team.
4. Add a couple more players to the permanent roster.

He should think hard about number 3. This problem will come up again, since basketball is the highest priority for those kids.

4 is problematic, due to the playing time problems at that age.

Good luck to him.

the players made their choice. Move on. if it were not the "top 2 players" then what. As far as seasons forget it. All sports including baseball are guilty. Talking to a boy who is going down to Floriday in February for a tournament. the last time I checked February is traditionally basketball season. Here in the Northeast fall tournaments are big. Fall is football seson. I guess it depends on whose ox is being gored.

we sit down as head coaches - football,basketball, and baseball - and try to schedule the best we can around each other. we do our strength programs together which takes care of football during this time frame. we do that in the mornings. there will be conflicts when basketball camps run into summer league baseball games. thats just part of it. i tell our kids to go to basketball when there is a conflict. we play more baseball games than we do basketball during the summer so i feel they need to go to basketball.
i agree with the above statement - baseball and basketball are both OFFSEASON during the summer so you cant really get mad when a choice has to be made..

BEE

It is a fair statement when talking baseball

Summer is key for HS baseball players in terms of exposure and great competition

Bee,

Good points. Though I love baseball a kid ought to be able to decide what they like -- IT IS SUPPOSE TO BE FUN!

If two kids are letting the baseball team down they are making the basketball team happy.

That's why 12 man teams in baseball won't cut it. If playing time is an issue for a travel summer team of 13 year olds then somebody is WAY too competitive and I doubt it's the kids -- it's rarely the kids who are too competitive it's usually the parents.

Get 15 kids and learn to play them all! Summer is hot! Teams can play usually at least two and sometimes 3 or 4 games a day. Do the math even at 7 innings per game that's 126 player innings and 15 kids that's 8 plus per kid. On a hot summer day. That's plenty.

quote:

Summer is key for HS baseball players in terms of exposure and great competition

Not to start an argument, but the exact same statement is true for basketball.

A friend of mine has a son who doesn't play baseball, but goes all over the country in the summer to basketball tourneys. He's now the #2 rated soph in CO. He's getting letters from WY, Denver, CSU, Texas Tech, etc... From what he's told me Coach K, Roy Williams, Bobby Knight and all the other major (and otherwise) coaches are at these AAU tourneys. Competition is head over heels better than anything in HS.

I wonder what you would have named this
thread if the two talented boys had picked baseball?

Maybe these two players are also the best basketball players?

Let them gain some experience with the high-end basketball tourneys and allow them to establish some points of reference.

I hate to see 13 years olds forced to choose and I hate to see their parents labeled because they have allowed a comittment that has ruffled some feathers.

I have to think that the title is perfect.

What sane person would expect the world to stop to suit their desires? Only one that is in need of psychiatric or psychological attention.

The inmates in this case are the coaches.

In raising children, it has always been my feeling that if they make a committment, they should honor that committment.

Some athletes decide to be up front and say that they have a previous committment and others simply say nothing and go to their previous committment.

Coaches should be sane enough and adult enough to accept the athlete who takes the high road and informs him that he can not make it on certain dates.

Folks...this is not high school ball. This is community travel league ball. The coaches, from competing sports, don't have a relationship like the ones on a school staff. Each coach has their own agenda.

I have read a lot of really well thought out responses. IMO, my friend should make his schedule, have the usual pre-season meeting with his players/parents and tell them he expects everyone to participate 100%, and to add that if you can't make a 100% commitment, then perhaps his team is not the right one to play for.

If you believe in your principles, then stick by them. BTW, the thread would have been titled the same whether these players were #1 and #2 or not. #1 and #2 make it a little more interesting to some readers.

quote:

Originally posted by larrythompson:
Folks...this is not high school ball. This is community travel league ball. The coaches, from competing sports, don't have a relationship like the ones on a school staff. Each coach has their own agenda.

I have read a lot of really well thought out responses. IMO, my friend should make his schedule, have the usual pre-season meeting with his players/parents and tell them he expects everyone to participate 100%, and to add that if you can't make a 100% commitment, then perhaps his team is not the right one to play for.

If you believe in your principles, then stick by them. BTW, the thread would have been titled the same whether these players were #1 and #2 or not. #1 and #2 make it a little more interesting to some readers.

OK... acouple of Kudos 1st for Bee for her post and feedback in regards to TR and commitment. TR he's talking about 13 yr olds in MD I doubt there will be too many Scouts to worry about in regards to exposure. Valid point in regards to competetion though/

MrMom Definitely agree 15 kids is manageable, as well as points about FUN and somebody being too competitive.

Pick up some Kids for the tournament is a valid idea.

I would say it would speak poorly of the team to drop these two kids, heck they've given him almost 6 months notuce on the conflict!

Larry as to your point about principles, totally agree I guess it just depends on what those principles are. THE THING that is starting to drive me crazy is you have AAU teams at age 8 and up playing year round ball as if its the life or death, and it leaves no room for kids to explore other activities including other sports or non-sporting activities because the coach says we need a total team committment!!!! This is just my little rant...I'd like to see the coach add a few marginal players who want to play and help them develop and see the joy in their faces as they see improvement in their game (not saying this coach doesn't do it). It's just that these teams are trying for some championship that someone made up so you can spend 500.00 on an entrants fee. IMO there are too many coaches or Daddy coaches hanging their hats on Jr's 13 year old team. DO you want to win and be competitive...of course but at what cost. I've seen a few kids that I think burned out early due to the game just be pounded into them.

OK I'm done...start throwing your darts!

First of all I think the parents should NOT put all the “blame” off on the 13 year olds. Secondly they should have explained their intentions on the front end, prior to making the commitment to play baseball. I also think at that age parents need to still be in the teaching mode and setting an example of making and honoring commitments. If the players and the parents want to go to the basketball tournament so be it. You can’t change that but I wouldn’t let them off the hook so easy. Here is the way I would handle it. Call a team meeting with parents and players. Discuss all the routine items, you know: fitted hats ... bubble gum allowed only on away games ... and then explain “your” problem and ask for everyone’s help. Let the basketball players and their parents tell the whole team they would rather play in a basketball tournament that play in the baseball tournament. Listen to the teams suggestions. They may want to replace the players or they may want to pick up a few ringers for that tournament or they may want to pass on the tournaments all together. See what shakes out.
Fungo

there probably is a lesson to be learned here

quote:

by fungo: I also think at that age parents need to still be in the teaching mode and setting an example of making and honoring commitments

you may have missed the point - that is exactly what's happening??

basketball got their commitments lined up early - maybe they allowed gum at home games

maybe I'm missing something, but these guys are NOT BACKING OUT of the baseball commitment - they're notifing coach well in advance of a prior commitment
exactly what commitment could HE expect to a baseball schedule that DOES NOT YET EXIST??

quote:

by fungo? OR - - fungo impersonator?: Let the basketball players and their parents tell the whole team they would rather play in a basketball

If a coach asked ME at a team meeting to justify to other parents my childs
PREVIOUS COMMITMENTS regarding his other interests -
I'd get busy finding a REAL COACH for my kid to play for



ps - re: my comment above "even a blind man should have seen the potential conflicts"
at 13 yr travel, WE had next yrs complete tournament schedule at our FIRST fall meeting, minimizing tho not eliminating future conflicts

pps - LARRY T, there are competitive tournys on MANY OTHER weekends -
help coach hammer out a plan that works, so they can re-focus on baseball stuff


.
.

Novice Dad

If kids dont learn about committment at 13 when will they learn it ?-- call me old school but committement and integrity are key to me where kids and parents are concerned

I have seen kids bounce from team to team looking for better situations and end up
totally "naked" when it ended

The bottom line is that there is no long integrity and committment in our country, not just in sports but in many other aspects as well. Many parents in the effort to get the best for their kids break all the rules, at least in my book

BEE> You're right! You stung me on that one! I had my basketbal and baseball confused for a moment! I thought the coveted tournament was a baseball (not basketball). I read it wrong! Now where's my fly swatter?

quote:

Their travel basketball coach signed the team up for a coveted tournament in Indiana for July. When my friend asked everyone to confirm his temporary schedule, the top two players' parents informed my friend that their sons would not be available for one of the July baseball tournaments.

quote:

If kids dont learn about committment at 13 when will they learn it ?-- call me old school but committement and integrity are key to me where kids and parents are concerned

That's just it. They have committed and you are asking them to break their committment to the basketball team.

I agree that if the baseball coach has a problem with it, then maybe he should not let them on the team. Not what I would do, but it's not my team.

I am not saying break anything--you cannot committ to two teams at the same time--I dont blame the 13 year old I blame the parents--they know theie son is playing on a baseball team with a small roster to give the kids playing time, great thing and I applaud the coach, but you cannot committ to two teams at the same time--what does the baseball teamdo ? bring in a couple of kids for an event or two and then say goodbye to them?

OK, OK, I can take only so much from the "glass half empty" crowd

soo, here is what I would do


I'd schedule my baseball tournaments "AROUND" Indiana

the Indiana weekend, Me & a Dad would pile the baseball team into a couple vans, drive to Indiana, and cheer their team-mates -
hang at the pool, play video games, do a movie, water slides & Hooters Fridays -

my TEAM would remain a TEAM & would be ready to continue baseball the following week

and life goes on


.

Leaving the committment issue aside for a moment . . . one thing that worked for us was to include, from the beginning, 1 or 2 non-paying players to the roster, to use in just such an occurance. They were kids who were good players, but the parents didn't have the money to play select team fees. So when we needed them, they came along and played and we could field a team. It wasn't quite the team we wanted to field, but we fielded a team.

Although it sort of 'solved' the immediate problem, the fact that some regular players chose to bail on the team in an important tournament with national implications still rankled the other players on the team.

Bottom line for the tournament though, is go play it if you want to and bring some kids who want to play. Generally if it is an independent tournament you are not bound to the roster that you have for States/Regionals/Nationals etc. Usually a tournament roster is submitted when you register, for that tournament only, so you could add them when you sign up for it. But if the 'extra' roster kids are on your roster from the beginning, they'll be eligible for anything, including States/Regionals/Nationals.

Bee makes a great idea of taking the team to the basketball tournament to support their team-mates. A bit impractical and expensive perhaps, but a great exercise in team bonding.

Mums the word on Hooters though. We had to listen to an earful from a couple moms (and a dad) after we did that . . . .

TR, I understand where you are coming from.

We committed to baseball and because my two boys were a few years apart, did pretty much nothing but baseball all summer as we shuffled between two teams, sometimes states apart.

As a parent whose kids are well past that stage, looking back, I might have done things different. My boys missed out on fishing trips, family vacations, etc....

As the "Got the Call" topic gets going, everyone is going to have to go through that sooner or later. Don't look back and wonder where the years went. "Got the call" (kind of) with the oldest when, because of injuries and surgery, he had to hang them up. Hopefully won't "get the call" with the youngest for awhile, but there are no guarantee's in life.

Maybe we should have kept it "more laid back" baseball wise and still had the time for living.

I just have a hard time telling 13 yo's to decide what they want to do at the risk of everything else. I coached a travel team through 14U. We didn't have the extensive schedule they do nowadays, but if we couldn't field a team a certain weekend, we didn't go to the tournament. It wasn't life or death.

Hope this makes sense. I'm not that good with words (eh Chill? ).

dad10

If you are in tournaments you dont go to just field a team, as you say

You go with the intent to win !!! You may not win but you went with your best and not using players just to fill the roster requirements

If not stay home and practice and play the locals

TR,

My sentiments Exactly! but it wasn't my call. My son came to play. That's just the way it worked out. Believe it or not, it was the 3rd weekend of a 3-weekend tournament and we were in the championship game. For some reason several kids had other priorities (!!) Meanwhile our opponent had all 15 kids there and ready to play. (BTW, We are playing on that opponent's team this coming year.)

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
dad10

If you are in tournaments you dont go to just field a team, as you say

You go with the intent to win !!! You may not win but you went with your best and not using players just to fill the roster requirements.

If not stay home and practice and play the locals

TR I have no problem with playing to win...but I think that maybe the playing to win is more of a coaches ego than the players. We are talking about a tournament that is entered (1 of 1000's in the summer) and the kids have informed you 6 months out that they have a prior commitment. The rest of the team still gets to play against good talent (if they choose to have a couple kids join them), have that all important "Hooters" night ( a little humor/Sarcasm), and you are able to pick up a few kids who would not have been able to go. The kids will have a good time, play ball and the dad's can still play poker and the Mom's can paint their faces, and put rocks in bottles and cheer. The only downside is that the coach may not be able to be the big guy on campus and have his photo taken with a 5 foot trophy or post on his website winner of ABC tournment

I agree with your early points about integrity but wonder if its the coach who needs to show what he is made of. With 6 months to find a solution the coach should be able to find a way to make it work. Yes it is important to show commitment but there also is more to life than baseball 52 weeks a year, don't get me wrong I can't wait till baseball starts, but there needs to be a balance of not just other sports but other activities as well.

Novice Dad...I appreciate your perspective and have enjoyed reading your posts. I think you missed one of the primary points I made in the original post. My friend, the coach, does not think that the kids should be focused on baseball for 52 weeks. He simply wants them focused on baseball from April-July, which for the 13 yr. old age group is the baseball season.

As for the folks who say keep 15 players, I used to agree, but no longer feel this is feasible. The team plays four games per week. Two on the weekend (DH), and two on the weekdays. All the parents like the size of the roster. Lots of playing time for everyone. And since the players get to games, practices and team functions by riding with mom and/or dad, it seems reasonable to allow mom and dad a say in how the team is set up, how the schedule is built, etc... When I coached at the 17-18 level, the parents had no say. Those kids are pretty self-reliant and can come and go without parent's help.

Frank

I read your post out loud and it made
berry, berry mud sense to me

Frank F

Fishing--before my last guys came along I had my bass boat and fished the bass tournament circuit here in the Northeast and was deeply involved with B.A.S.S. and the DEP in NY where I lived at that time--- came LL time came for the boys the boat was gone and I was off the tournament circuit-- no time for both--it is called committment--some parents do and others don't and I am not speaking of those parents whose job does not permit it but those who can and don't -- kids learn committment from the parents and fortunatley my job permitted me to never miss game they played regardless of the sport or season. I made the time !!!

Frankf: OK, I'm chillin.

TR,

Agreed, it's all about choices. I wasn't talking about myself fishing, but taking my boys on fishing trips, etc...

We missed out on family reunions, vacations because of baseball. My boys weren't and still aren't complaining. I just feel (as much as I absolutely love the game) that there is more to life.

I don't have a problem with committment as we were as committed as anyone.

Again, it's choices and I'm not about to judge anyone else and their choices.

FRank

I am not either but it comes down to the COMMITTMENT!!!! Many dont want to make the sacrifices, both player and parents

Maybe there should be 60 weekends in a year. and with those extra eight we could just chill and fish/Hunt /camp with are boys.
I haven't been able to. Committment is one thing to be considered. and leasure time with the family is another.
In order to do the baseball thing and the travel involved it takes a committment on my part to work all the OT I can.
I just filled out my vacation for the year and everything is baseball related.
I know we want to give are boys a fun and joyful baseball exsperiance, and maybe if they work hard and are seen by the right people they could go to next level.
But there's something to be said about stopping and smelling the Moose. I mean Roses. the EH

It isn't easy finding time for all sports in today's world. As a basketball coach and football coach, as well as a baseball coach, I have a son that also plays all 3. Luckily for us, our 3 head coaches get along real well and are willing to work with each other and around each other. I have been in situations where the coaches fought over times and players and told players either or.........that is not right. I liked the idea of picking up a few extra players for that specific tournament. Now, I have a feeling that the baseball coach isn't going to be happy because I am betting the 2 basketball players are also his studs and now his team may not be as good. I am a huge supporter of the 2 or 3 sport athlete.....something that is beginning to disappear in today's society because caoches demand that the players choose at a young age. I have seen s****r and volleyball do that with their year round "club sports". Never been a fan of that.

Being a three-sport athlete as well as being highly involved in the Boy Scouts, I am very busy yearround. I've played Jr. Legion baseball while also making time for team-basketball camp, football workouts, basketball open gyms, weight lifting, summer camp for Boy Scouts, and playing 3,4 nights a week baseball. It can be done. Coaches just have to realize that THE WORLD DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND THEM! In the school season, I could understand the coach getting upset. Over the summer, the athlete has to make choices sometimes. If that upsets the coach, too bad.

And about there being 12 on the baseball team so losing 2 would prevent them from playing. What about those same 2 playing baseball and leaving their 5, maybe 6 teammates at basketball hung out to dry? I think it's great the parents are giving the KIDS the opportunity to make the decision.

I work 9 months out of the year looking to win a championship in school sports as well as doing school work. Over the summer, I'm out there to have fun, learn, and get better. Winning is a bonus. Of course, I don't have fun too often when I'm losing, but I think summer sports and club sports have gone too far.

Right or wrong, youth sports are becoming more specialized. If your kid wants to play at a high level, he may be required to give up other pastimes and focus on the one or two sports he likes the most. The coaches of my 13 year-old son’s team were very straight forward with the players and the parents. Before try-outs last fall, they told everyone what kind of commitment that they would require (league, tournaments, practice schedule, money, travel, etc…). They said that if a player were selected, he and his family would be asked to make a 100% commitment to the team prior to being placed on the roster.

My son plays basketball and runs track in the summer as well. He (with parental guidance) chose what he wanted to do. He told his track coaches that he could not commit to being at certain practices and meets because of his baseball schedule. They were understanding and accommodating and were willing to work around baseball. His basketball coach was very understanding as well, but explained that he too wanted his players 100% focused and committed. When he chose baseball over basketball, the basketball coach was very gracious and told him that he was welcome to come work out at the gym whenever he could and that he was always welcome to return if he changed his mind.

Making a commitment to a “select” team is a decision that each kid and each family have to make together. The kid needs to understand the commitment that will be required of him and his parents, take a realistic look at his long-term goals and his plans to reach them, have a clear view of what sacrifices that he and his family will have to make for him to reach those goals and if other options exist. After they get a thorough understanding of the dynamics of the situation, let them make a choice and let them live with the repercussions of their decision. Support them, but don’t hand them everything on a silver platter. In my opinion, kids need to learn about commitment, how to work through adversity and develop a strong work ethic at a young age.

I think letting a 13 year old make a decision and live with the results is an important lesson in life; letting the kid choose, supporting the decision and providing them with a good example of how to honor a commitment is an equally important lesson in parenting.

Great topic!!

Last year, my travel team was 14U. It was the first year that I heard from so many players about not being able to get to every game. Family vacations, basketball camp, etc. For the first time, I had to call a coach the night before a game and tell him I didn't have enough players (I had a 13 man roster). Words can't describe how disappointed I was...

But trying to put it in perspective, we are a town-based all-star team playing similar teams around the north jersey area. although we had a couple of players from another town, it wasn't like I was recruiting the very best players from multiple towns. To get more committed players would have required a fairly substantial drop in the talent pool, which I wasn't ready to do. We just don't have enough field time to practice as much as I'd like.

So this year we're doing Junior Legion, and now I have some 16 yr olds to choose from. I'm not sure I can expect the commitment level to be any higher, though. I'll probably keep 15 on the roster to avoid problems.

At this point, I'm happy to have a bunch of 15-16 yr olds that want to play. Most of these kids won't get past high school ball, so I want them to enjoy it. Tying them up for every day from May-July just isn't realistic, if I want this team to continue.