I get it now. I started out all wrong so I feel like I should just slink away and let you all get on with watching the Olympics.
2Fast,...dont get discouraged. Your son has to be the one to make his decision as to where he would feel most comfortable playing.
Your family has to decide together what is most financially feesible.
If the Pros are interested they will follow him where ever he goes. Pros do not just recruit from DI schools.
Remember, if your son signs with a 4 year DI/DII college, he can not be draft eligible until after his Junior year of college ball.
I know this process can be exciting and overwhelming at times.....ya just have to take everything in stride.
Fungos words are good words to listen to:
Prestige means nothing if one does not feel comfortable. Being able to make a solid contribution at any level is where I think true satisfaction comes from.
Listen to what your son is saying,..and especially to what he's not saying. The players themselves usually have a strong gut feeling as to what is their best path to take.
Your family has to decide together what is most financially feesible.
If the Pros are interested they will follow him where ever he goes. Pros do not just recruit from DI schools.
Remember, if your son signs with a 4 year DI/DII college, he can not be draft eligible until after his Junior year of college ball.
I know this process can be exciting and overwhelming at times.....ya just have to take everything in stride.
Fungos words are good words to listen to:
quote:Separate the two!! I would not allow the pro draft to influence where my son went to college because where your son goes to college will have little (if any) impact on his professional career.
Prestige means nothing if one does not feel comfortable. Being able to make a solid contribution at any level is where I think true satisfaction comes from.
Listen to what your son is saying,..and especially to what he's not saying. The players themselves usually have a strong gut feeling as to what is their best path to take.
quote:Originally posted by 2Fast:
If I call up one of the agents who have contacted us and talk to him, does that mean he is now our "advisor" and are we in any danger of being accused of having an agent and therefore no longer amateur? Will the advisor want a cut of his signing bonus because I talked to him?
Thanks and have a wonderful, spectacular day!
An advisor is just that, an advisor. By speaking to one does not necessarily mean you are committed to them to become your "agent" down the road.
As things progress your son may decide that if lightning does strike and he accepts a pro offer, the advisor you have been talking to can become his agent once you sign a pro contract.
The obvious thing here is to make sure you protect your son's amateur status. Do not sign anything with an agent until you son signs a pro contract.
2Fast,
Don't slink away & welcome to the HSBW message boards! There are lots of good people here with experience and knowledge that will help you with your recruiting process.
There are lots of good threads on Going Pro vs. College - always a strong topic of conversation on this board. You can do a search for past threads at the top of the page under "find". You can do a search on advisors also.
Also, the ladies forum is always a little more relaxed if you want to join us in there.
Good luck and hang in there!
Don't slink away & welcome to the HSBW message boards! There are lots of good people here with experience and knowledge that will help you with your recruiting process.
There are lots of good threads on Going Pro vs. College - always a strong topic of conversation on this board. You can do a search for past threads at the top of the page under "find". You can do a search on advisors also.
Also, the ladies forum is always a little more relaxed if you want to join us in there.
Good luck and hang in there!
quote:Originally posted by 2Fast:
I get it now. I started out all wrong so I feel like I should just slink away and let you all get on with watching the Olympics.
This is just a community like your very own neighborhood 2Fast. If someone were the wealthiest one in the neighborhood, I doubt they would run around the block telling people that. They would just continue driving their Mercedes and be thankful for that situation I am guessing. Please note that a true dilemma is when nobody is calling your house or asking you to fill out a card. It almost feels like Brad Pitt's parents complaining that since he is so good looking, it is difficult to figure out which screen role to pick next. Basically, it is a nice problem to have.
Figuring out how to handle all the agents, pro scouts, and college recruiters that are calling your phone off the hook is quite managable. There is no linkage between the draft and college signing. The way to handle that "problem" is find the college you can afford and that your son would be happy with and sign a letter of intent in November to play with them. Make preperations as if he will be going to college since no one can ever guarantee he nwill be drafted (get good grades, do well on SAT). Tell all the pro scouts that you are open to signing a pro contract and want to be treated fairly. You have no decision to make there until he is drafted next June. If he is drafted, and he receives a monetary offer, he can decide then (next June) whether or not to turn pro. He is not bound by the NLI in anyway if he decides to turn pro. As long as he does not sign an agreement for the advisor to be his agent, then the advisor will remain just that. Most player/advisor relationships carry the implicit understanding that the advisor will become the agent someday. Pick someone who you are comforatable with and someone whose credentials can be verified. One way is to have them give you a list of their clients and talk to them. Also, you ought to be able to check their reputations online as well. Hope that helps.
SSmom quote:
ClevelandDad quote:
..... I was wrong. ClevelandDad did a darn good job of answering alot of your questions, I think!
quote:There are too many variables for all of your questions to be answered in one chat session.
ClevelandDad quote:
quote:Figuring out how to handle all the agents, pro scouts, and college recruiters that are calling your phone off the hook is quite managable. There is no linkage between the draft and college signing. The way to handle that "problem" is find the college you can afford and that your son would be happy with and sign a letter of intent in November to play with them. Make preperations as if he will be going to college since no one can ever guarantee he nwill be drafted (get good grades, do well on SAT). Tell all the pro scouts that you are open to signing a pro contract and want to be treated fairly. You have no decision to make there until he is drafted next June. If he is drafted, and he receives a monetary offer, he can decide then (next June) whether or not to turn pro. He is not bound by the NLI in anyway if he decides to turn pro. As long as he does not sign an agreement for the advisor to be his agent, then the advisor will remain just that. Most player/advisor relationships carry the implicit understanding that the advisor will become the agent someday. Pick someone who you are comforatable with and someone whose credentials can be verified. One way is to have them give you a list of their clients and talk to them. Also, you ought to be able to check their reputations online as well. Hope that helps.
..... I was wrong. ClevelandDad did a darn good job of answering alot of your questions, I think!
nice post Cleveland DAd.
The only amateurism issue to worry about is the NCAA, and their rules need to be followed closely.
Go to NCAA Rules page and download the NCAA D1 amnual. Go to page 68, Rule 12.3 and read it carefully. You'll find that you or the player may not enter into a written or verbal agreement with an advisor that would compensate the advisor now or later. Furthermore, don't accept even a free dinner from an agent.
ClevelandDad is correct; there is an implicit understanding that the advisor may benefit later, but you need to keep that implicit. Also, a player sometimes begins a relationship with an advisor, but later realizes that the fit between advisor and player isn't good. It's OK to change advisors at that point (but changing a few days before signing a pro contract would be "dirty pool", although clearly legal, because there was no written or verbal agreement). A player should strive to find an advisor that he also would be happy with as an agent.
As others have said, your player doesn't have any decisions to make right now concerning the draft or pro possibilities. He does need to decide on a college choice. Bear in mind that if he enters a 4 year school, he'll need to have finished his junior year, or have turned 21, or have formally petitioned MLB in order to be eligible for the draft. Some people decide (quite wrongly, in my opinion) to go the JC route in order to preserve the possibility of being drafted earlier.
Regarding "being bitten by the draft bug" or "the fever": You probably can't see it now, but the tone of your posts strongly suggest that you are currently on an emotional high about your son's future. It's very understandable, given all the buzz and attention your son is receiving. But please don't let the possibility that your son may get to play pro ball distract you from making a careful decision on college.
Go to NCAA Rules page and download the NCAA D1 amnual. Go to page 68, Rule 12.3 and read it carefully. You'll find that you or the player may not enter into a written or verbal agreement with an advisor that would compensate the advisor now or later. Furthermore, don't accept even a free dinner from an agent.
ClevelandDad is correct; there is an implicit understanding that the advisor may benefit later, but you need to keep that implicit. Also, a player sometimes begins a relationship with an advisor, but later realizes that the fit between advisor and player isn't good. It's OK to change advisors at that point (but changing a few days before signing a pro contract would be "dirty pool", although clearly legal, because there was no written or verbal agreement). A player should strive to find an advisor that he also would be happy with as an agent.
As others have said, your player doesn't have any decisions to make right now concerning the draft or pro possibilities. He does need to decide on a college choice. Bear in mind that if he enters a 4 year school, he'll need to have finished his junior year, or have turned 21, or have formally petitioned MLB in order to be eligible for the draft. Some people decide (quite wrongly, in my opinion) to go the JC route in order to preserve the possibility of being drafted earlier.
Regarding "being bitten by the draft bug" or "the fever": You probably can't see it now, but the tone of your posts strongly suggest that you are currently on an emotional high about your son's future. It's very understandable, given all the buzz and attention your son is receiving. But please don't let the possibility that your son may get to play pro ball distract you from making a careful decision on college.
Good posts. I have learned a lot here. I did not consider how this board is like a community. I apologize. It's just that I haven't really been able to talk about this to other people. Can't talk about it to other parents on our team, or to friends who would just think I was a = moderated=.
I thought maybe I could talk about it here. It has been a good experience overall. I tend to get interested in certain subjects and research the heck out of them, then when that season is over I move on to the next topic. Hence my intense interest in this particular field right now. I thought by giving the info up front I would get mostly facts, but it seems I touched a few nerves.
When it's all said and done, I really love the quote I keep seeing around these boards, something about being humble or about to be humbled.
Our son is a lot more relaxed about this than I am. I'll just take it like he does and let him indicate what his preferences are in the matter.
Thanks y'all.
I thought maybe I could talk about it here. It has been a good experience overall. I tend to get interested in certain subjects and research the heck out of them, then when that season is over I move on to the next topic. Hence my intense interest in this particular field right now. I thought by giving the info up front I would get mostly facts, but it seems I touched a few nerves.
When it's all said and done, I really love the quote I keep seeing around these boards, something about being humble or about to be humbled.
Our son is a lot more relaxed about this than I am. I'll just take it like he does and let him indicate what his preferences are in the matter.
Thanks y'all.
quote:but it seems I touched a few nerves.
I doubt you aggravated any nerves, but you need to be careful making claims such as "hitting HRs over 435' with a wooden bat, etc. on a regular basis."
I could be wrong but I would bet that statement is either a wild exageration or simply a innacurate description of the actual events.
Anyway, if he is getting the attention you say than you have recieved some very good advice.
quote:Originally posted by Homerun04:quote:Originally posted by TPM:
Not to repeat what has already been said, I am sure that you are aware of the MLB scholarship fund. Unless you are one of the top in the first round, in FL, no matter what the scholarship amount in or out of state, you will be given money according to what state tuition is (as in most states). For example, if you have a 100K scholarship and you fall in a 175K bonus range, they are not going to put aside 100K for your education unless tehy can't live without you. You might be able to ask them to find a few more dollars for your signing bonus, but not for your education. Strange as it sounds and I have said before, my son got more to finish one year from his team than some teams were willing to give out of HS. This was based on that fact that he needed x amount of dollars, to earn his degree where he began, which was out of state.
Oh maybe I need to stop giving options, but I thought if the HS player is committed to a $45,000 school, he would negotiate college into his signing contract, it would be published that he may have gotten $450,000 signing bonus, but they would get the $180,000 in addition (vs say $72,000 for a state school) set aside in a fund for him when he stops playing (with several clauses). Most of the time the players would not take them up on it, but it would be there for a period of time.
It would also be similar for a Jr. in college, if they get drafted and they sign, they would negotiate to get their last year of school so they could get their degree from what ever school they attended or at least the normal cost of that school.
All teams negotiate differently. If your son receives a scholarship that is worth alot from out of state, the amount of $$ set aside in the scholarhip fund most likely will be negotiated for in state tuition for the state he resides in at time of signing(he doesn't now HAVE to attend that school out of state). Living expenses (room and board) may or may not be covered. The signing bonus you see published is just that, the signing bonus, the scholarship amount is negotiate seperately under an addendum to the milb contract. You can ASK for that money in bonus, but most likely it will not be included as it is becomes taxable. The scholarship amount given to son was based on only finishing his degree out of state.
It also can just be based on the year your son is drafted, and remember college costs are increasing.
Also, a scout visiting your home many or may not give you a copy of the plan as there are a lot of stipulations in it, has to be read over carefully by the player and family.
As I stated all teams do things differently, but, IMO, they do not want to put more money in the fund then they have to. Our state tuition is relatively inexpensive compared to many states, so the amount for average tuition was far less than than son's out of state committment for 4 years, far less than they were wiling to give in HS.
In order to be more accurate, I asked my husband to clarify the distance our son has been hitting with a wooden bat. He is apparently averaging 390, has hit 425 (not 435 as I enthused earlier). He was hitting over 400 with an aluminum bat this past junior year season and is increasing his distance and power over time.
We were told he needs to use his legs more, that he is swinging too much with his upper body. We all think that is good advice.
Maybe our son's abilities are turning my head a bit and he is becoming a legend in my own mind. I do like this board and will try to calm down and be more low key. Thought you'd like clarification on the distance. If I say something here, I'd better have my facts straight. :-)
We were told he needs to use his legs more, that he is swinging too much with his upper body. We all think that is good advice.
Maybe our son's abilities are turning my head a bit and he is becoming a legend in my own mind. I do like this board and will try to calm down and be more low key. Thought you'd like clarification on the distance. If I say something here, I'd better have my facts straight. :-)
2fast, welcome to the message board. There is alot of information here and answers to your Q's. The newness of a players adventure is fun and exciting. Player prospects emerge quickly every year. You can be honest here. Plenty of folks here have been in similar situations and actually want to help those that follow.
Plenty of folks have experience in recruting and the pro/college decisions. What you will get here is perspective from an objective, experienced point of view. It's ok to be excited. Good luck.
Plenty of folks have experience in recruting and the pro/college decisions. What you will get here is perspective from an objective, experienced point of view. It's ok to be excited. Good luck.
There is so much to learn thanks to the internet, AKA the "public library"????????
PLEASE
In the world of baseball today, Roy Hobbs can't hide in the cornfield anymore.
PLEASE
In the world of baseball today, Roy Hobbs can't hide in the cornfield anymore.
2Fast:
I think you will find that the people here are very willing to be helpful to you as you go down this path with your son.
You don't have to convince anyone here that he is good. Your first posts were so over the top in that regard that I honestly belived you were a troll trying to bait people here into reacting.
A general observation about this place I have made over the years is that the parents of the most accomplished kids talk the least about their kids' abilities. In any case, it is irrelevant. People are willing to help if you son were struggling to make varsity just as they would be if he were a probable first rounder.
So chill a bit and join this community. I am sure you will be welcomed.
I think you will find that the people here are very willing to be helpful to you as you go down this path with your son.
You don't have to convince anyone here that he is good. Your first posts were so over the top in that regard that I honestly belived you were a troll trying to bait people here into reacting.
A general observation about this place I have made over the years is that the parents of the most accomplished kids talk the least about their kids' abilities. In any case, it is irrelevant. People are willing to help if you son were struggling to make varsity just as they would be if he were a probable first rounder.
So chill a bit and join this community. I am sure you will be welcomed.
What is happening with our son is the most exciting thing that has ever happened to me. Who can you talk to when things are so "over the top"? Obviously I can't talk to other baseball parents. Most of the people I know are having difficulties so how can I share such good news with them?
If I were to give my son's name and info here than I couldn't be honest. The only way I could possibly be honest is not to tell. That's what attracted me to this board - that I could share what's happening to us and not be judged or compared or disbelieved or envied.
So I started out wrong, making it sound too good to be true. But it's for real. It is almost too good to be true. Being a successful athlete must, I now realize, be very isolating. You are living in another kind of world where people view you differently.
When I go to my son's games, everything I say is noticed, if I'm pacing during a game people comment on it. Next year, when he's a senior, who can I trust? Which player's parent is going to be my friend and not wish it was their son out there doing it instead of mine? Not many.
Maybe I need counseling. Perhaps the only place I can go where I don't come off like I'm bragging is with someone completely impartial. I made the mistake of thinking this board could be that for me. So I probably won't post again.
Best wishes to all. Thanks for all the info and the help. I'll probably keep lurking and reading. It is still a very helpful place to come to and there are some excellent posts, articles, and interviews.
If I were to give my son's name and info here than I couldn't be honest. The only way I could possibly be honest is not to tell. That's what attracted me to this board - that I could share what's happening to us and not be judged or compared or disbelieved or envied.
So I started out wrong, making it sound too good to be true. But it's for real. It is almost too good to be true. Being a successful athlete must, I now realize, be very isolating. You are living in another kind of world where people view you differently.
When I go to my son's games, everything I say is noticed, if I'm pacing during a game people comment on it. Next year, when he's a senior, who can I trust? Which player's parent is going to be my friend and not wish it was their son out there doing it instead of mine? Not many.
Maybe I need counseling. Perhaps the only place I can go where I don't come off like I'm bragging is with someone completely impartial. I made the mistake of thinking this board could be that for me. So I probably won't post again.
Best wishes to all. Thanks for all the info and the help. I'll probably keep lurking and reading. It is still a very helpful place to come to and there are some excellent posts, articles, and interviews.
2Fast, I (and several others) took every one of your posts at face value. Don't let a few skeptical people succeed in running you off. I can understand your desire to celebrate your son's achievements on this message board. You are right -- there are very few with whom you can do that, apart from relatives. And even though relatives may be happy for you, unless they are true baseball fans, they don't have a clue what you or your son are going through or achieving. Please post again whenever you have a question. There are many here on HSBBW who are more than happy to celebrate with you, answer your questions, and give you advice. Best wishes to you and your son!
2fast,
why wouldnt you post? when you have a talented player there is alwasy jealousy esp. at the hs level when there usually arent that many good players on one team.
I think you just need to not woory about it, you really dont need to say anything at the HS games sit and watch and cheer on the team.
The success your son has and looks he get will happen if hes that good. sometimes when a player is really good not much needs to be said.
why wouldnt you post? when you have a talented player there is alwasy jealousy esp. at the hs level when there usually arent that many good players on one team.
I think you just need to not woory about it, you really dont need to say anything at the HS games sit and watch and cheer on the team.
The success your son has and looks he get will happen if hes that good. sometimes when a player is really good not much needs to be said.
2Fast,
Our son is close to the end of his baseball career but hoping it continues as a coach.
Maybe I can bring some "reality" to your situation through the things he has taught me.
The two most important aspects of baseball, for a player or their parent, include the recognition that what you did yesterday isn't a reflection of tomorrow. Baseball is a game played in the future. During the transition out of high school, for the first time, your son, whether he goes to college or is drafted and signs professionally, will be competing on a field where everyone is of near equal ability, some will be better.
The other important aspect to remember is baseball is a game of failure. As you progress past high school, at some point, your son is very likely to fail. Nearly every player does. When they confront that situation, their mental, not physical ability will provide the guidance between future success and failure.
In this corner, I have no real problem with your celebration of the successes. It sounds like it is earning your son a lot of looks at where he might progress.
But baseball beyond high school is a lot like investing. Past performance isn't any guarantee of future success. Your son is rapidly approaching the point where what he does tomorrow is far more important that what he did yesterday.
Good luck to each of you. In some ways, your "jobs" overlap. In many ways they will not. On this board you are going to find a lot of very helpful information to know where the separation exists.
Our son is close to the end of his baseball career but hoping it continues as a coach.
Maybe I can bring some "reality" to your situation through the things he has taught me.
The two most important aspects of baseball, for a player or their parent, include the recognition that what you did yesterday isn't a reflection of tomorrow. Baseball is a game played in the future. During the transition out of high school, for the first time, your son, whether he goes to college or is drafted and signs professionally, will be competing on a field where everyone is of near equal ability, some will be better.
The other important aspect to remember is baseball is a game of failure. As you progress past high school, at some point, your son is very likely to fail. Nearly every player does. When they confront that situation, their mental, not physical ability will provide the guidance between future success and failure.
In this corner, I have no real problem with your celebration of the successes. It sounds like it is earning your son a lot of looks at where he might progress.
But baseball beyond high school is a lot like investing. Past performance isn't any guarantee of future success. Your son is rapidly approaching the point where what he does tomorrow is far more important that what he did yesterday.
Good luck to each of you. In some ways, your "jobs" overlap. In many ways they will not. On this board you are going to find a lot of very helpful information to know where the separation exists.
2Fast,
Keeping everything in perspective is key. I hope you will use the good advice that you've gotten here so far, to your son's benefit and for yours as well. You are not the first parent going through the recruiting process who thinks he/she might need counseling
, nor will you be the last!
There are many many good players out there, and at every level the competition gets harder. Ability will speak for itself.
Sometimes, one of the best things we can do as a parent is to take a small step back, observe, and watch things unfold. Doesnt mean we shouldn't educate ourselves about the process, and be well informed,...but perhaps a calm perspective will allow the dust to settle and the right path for the future will reveal itself.
Keeping everything in perspective is key. I hope you will use the good advice that you've gotten here so far, to your son's benefit and for yours as well. You are not the first parent going through the recruiting process who thinks he/she might need counseling
, nor will you be the last! There are many many good players out there, and at every level the competition gets harder. Ability will speak for itself.
Sometimes, one of the best things we can do as a parent is to take a small step back, observe, and watch things unfold. Doesnt mean we shouldn't educate ourselves about the process, and be well informed,...but perhaps a calm perspective will allow the dust to settle and the right path for the future will reveal itself.
That is good advice. I think I'll watch and see what happens. I've let some of my hobbies go lately that kept things in perspective - time to take them up again so baseball doesn't take over my world.
I'll have to go onto the women's board and ask for advice about scrapbooking. I'd like to make something special for these high school years that our son can keep and enjoy.
I'll have to go onto the women's board and ask for advice about scrapbooking. I'd like to make something special for these high school years that our son can keep and enjoy.
2Fast,
I appreciate that you have been open and vulnerable with your responses here. Although it may have been painful to read a few of the more blunt posts in this thread, there are so many really informative and helpful posts here. And you have also been instrumental in another very important purpose of this site:
Initiating "interesting" discussions like this one that answer questions for parents who are too scared to post about their sons' situations!
As long as you survived this discussion, hey, the rest of our little "getting to know each other" dance will be a piece of cake. Stay, post, read, laugh, cry... Stick around, and a year or two from now, you could read this thread again and understand exactly where some of the responses are coming from.
The posts in this thread...some very kind and concerned, some a bit rougher...pretty much sum up what parents learn during this exciting time you are entering now...college recruiting and the baseball draft. Many very good posts, and I'd like to repeat part of one, from justbaseball:
"I think some of the questions asked here are in a lot of HS parents heads. Most are afraid to spit them out. For college or pro parents, don't you remember a summer or HS coach telling you that your son would play pro ball someday? That he had "AAA stuff?" Or that he could hit AA pitching right now? And you wanted to believe it? Might have told your aunt/uncle/grandmother about your wonder-child?"
"So if I think back to the kinds of questions swirling in my head at the same point in my son's baseball journey...I'm not too sure that many of them didn't have similar slants to them as 2Fast."
"In fact, as my son is 2 months into his pro career, I often stop typing on my keyboard about things I've heard or seen or think...realizing that my enthusiasm may be a little naive at this time and yes, a little beyond reality."
"I feel I've only learned to 'hold back' through realizing how many times I was a little too excited too fast through his HS and college careers."
"2Fast - I think your questions are pretty normal for the point you are at in your son's journey. From my point of view, go back and re-read Fungo's post about 20 times and think about it for an hour or two in between each read."
Thank you, justbaseball!
Julie
I appreciate that you have been open and vulnerable with your responses here. Although it may have been painful to read a few of the more blunt posts in this thread, there are so many really informative and helpful posts here. And you have also been instrumental in another very important purpose of this site:
Initiating "interesting" discussions like this one that answer questions for parents who are too scared to post about their sons' situations!
As long as you survived this discussion, hey, the rest of our little "getting to know each other" dance will be a piece of cake. Stay, post, read, laugh, cry... Stick around, and a year or two from now, you could read this thread again and understand exactly where some of the responses are coming from.
The posts in this thread...some very kind and concerned, some a bit rougher...pretty much sum up what parents learn during this exciting time you are entering now...college recruiting and the baseball draft. Many very good posts, and I'd like to repeat part of one, from justbaseball:
"I think some of the questions asked here are in a lot of HS parents heads. Most are afraid to spit them out. For college or pro parents, don't you remember a summer or HS coach telling you that your son would play pro ball someday? That he had "AAA stuff?" Or that he could hit AA pitching right now? And you wanted to believe it? Might have told your aunt/uncle/grandmother about your wonder-child?"
"So if I think back to the kinds of questions swirling in my head at the same point in my son's baseball journey...I'm not too sure that many of them didn't have similar slants to them as 2Fast."
"In fact, as my son is 2 months into his pro career, I often stop typing on my keyboard about things I've heard or seen or think...realizing that my enthusiasm may be a little naive at this time and yes, a little beyond reality."
"I feel I've only learned to 'hold back' through realizing how many times I was a little too excited too fast through his HS and college careers."
"2Fast - I think your questions are pretty normal for the point you are at in your son's journey. From my point of view, go back and re-read Fungo's post about 20 times and think about it for an hour or two in between each read."
Thank you, justbaseball!
Julie
I went back and read my first post and I still don't understand what I said ---
2fast maybe I can help youappreciate understand the exchange of information on the HSBBW and how you can use that exchange to your advantage.
First you have to understand where YOU yourself are coming from and where YOU want to go. Once you understand yourself then you will begin to understand everyone else on the HSBBW because we are all here for basically the same reason. Most parents here have a son that plays pretty good baseball --- some currently do, some used to, and some will later on. We are all proud of our sons. We all like to read newspaper clippings, polish trophies, and look at pictures. ---- of our sons. Most of these parents (me included) are guilty of wearing rose colored glasses at times. In other words we see our sons differently than the rest of the world sees them. I think that is necessary to keep us from abandoning them on a deserted highway. The mistake most of us make (some more frequently than others) is assuming that everyone else sees our son as we do --- that normally doesn't happen unless you have a non-baseball relationship with that "other" person. Grandparents automatically qualify! I have to remember that each time I start a post or respond to a post. We have to keep our "proudness" in check in order to have a productive two way conversation about our sons.
For instance, when you posted your son hit a 435 ft. shot the first thing I do is go to my son's college website archives and re-read the article that describes in detail the 450 ft. shot he hit against the University of Tennessee in 2004. ---- Luckily my son's was farther and I was not relegated to second place and I could be objective in our exchange.
HSBBW "conversations" are quite different and more productive that the conversations you might have with the other parents sitting in the stands beside you. First your son isn't directly competing with with other Websters' sons here on the HSBBW. No one is threatened by your son's accomplishments unless you or me make an VERY obvious attempt to push them to the front of the conversation and make "accomplishments" the primary focus of the post. Plus internet conversations lack emotions and body language thus making less of an impact and making the exchange more factual rather than emotional.
There is a world of information here for you and your son's benefit. I KNOW it will be helpful because we are so alike in many ways. We all have (or had) the same concerns -- the same obstacles --- and the same goals --- we've shared the same joys and the same pains. We will disagree many times but the things we disagree on actually produce the most information. I suggest you share your son's name at some point so he can be added to the "where they are" list Side bar. This allows us to follow your son and allows ALL of us to toot his horn. From experience I know a band of horns sounds much better than one out of tune solo.
Fungo
2fast maybe I can help you
First you have to understand where YOU yourself are coming from and where YOU want to go. Once you understand yourself then you will begin to understand everyone else on the HSBBW because we are all here for basically the same reason. Most parents here have a son that plays pretty good baseball --- some currently do, some used to, and some will later on. We are all proud of our sons. We all like to read newspaper clippings, polish trophies, and look at pictures. ---- of our sons. Most of these parents (me included) are guilty of wearing rose colored glasses at times. In other words we see our sons differently than the rest of the world sees them. I think that is necessary to keep us from abandoning them on a deserted highway.
The mistake most of us make (some more frequently than others) is assuming that everyone else sees our son as we do --- that normally doesn't happen unless you have a non-baseball relationship with that "other" person. Grandparents automatically qualify! I have to remember that each time I start a post or respond to a post. We have to keep our "proudness" in check in order to have a productive two way conversation about our sons.For instance, when you posted your son hit a 435 ft. shot the first thing I do is go to my son's college website archives and re-read the article that describes in detail the 450 ft. shot he hit against the University of Tennessee in 2004. ---- Luckily my son's was farther and I was not relegated to second place and I could be objective in our exchange.
HSBBW "conversations" are quite different and more productive that the conversations you might have with the other parents sitting in the stands beside you. First your son isn't directly competing with with other Websters' sons here on the HSBBW. No one is threatened by your son's accomplishments unless you or me make an VERY obvious attempt to push them to the front of the conversation and make "accomplishments" the primary focus of the post. Plus internet conversations lack emotions and body language thus making less of an impact and making the exchange more factual rather than emotional.
There is a world of information here for you and your son's benefit. I KNOW it will be helpful because we are so alike in many ways. We all have (or had) the same concerns -- the same obstacles --- and the same goals --- we've shared the same joys and the same pains. We will disagree many times but the things we disagree on actually produce the most information. I suggest you share your son's name at some point so he can be added to the "where they are" list Side bar. This allows us to follow your son and allows ALL of us to toot his horn. From experience I know a band of horns sounds much better than one out of tune solo.
Fungo
quote:For instance, when you posted your son hit a 435 ft. shot the first thing I do is go to my son's college website archives and re-read the article that describes in detail the 450 ft. shot he hit against the University of Tennessee in 2004. ---- Luckily my son's was farther and I was not relegated to second place and I could be objective in our exchange.
Always important to remain objective!
2Fast - I see great promise in you remaining a member here. I was a little skeptical like Rob initially but you have since won me over with your reasoned responses. Even then, some still piled on but you have shown fine qualities in response thereto. Welcome to the hsbbweb
These are exciting times and we are excited for you.
2fast
You should definitly stay around. It sounds like you have baseball on the brain, we all do, thats why were here. A lot of parents on this board have phenominal baseball players and it will help you to stay grounded.
One of the first things I learned from coming to this site was to try to stay balanced the best you can. When things are going great and your on cloud nine keep in mind that tommorrow he could have a very bad game, or get injured etcc. Same goes when things are going horrible, don't get too down, there will be better or great times are ahead.
You should definitly stay around. It sounds like you have baseball on the brain, we all do, thats why were here. A lot of parents on this board have phenominal baseball players and it will help you to stay grounded.
One of the first things I learned from coming to this site was to try to stay balanced the best you can. When things are going great and your on cloud nine keep in mind that tommorrow he could have a very bad game, or get injured etcc. Same goes when things are going horrible, don't get too down, there will be better or great times are ahead.
I'm glad I didn't read this thread earlier; heaven (and a few posters around here 
) knows what I would have said!
2Fast, every once in a while (and we have had several recently) people come on to post just to stir things up. Because of those recent posts, your initial post was viewed more skeptically than it would have been at another time. But that's been cleared up, so hang around and get addicted like the rest of us!
As Fungo has said, without context, tone of voice, or body language, we all have only words to respond to. So when you refer to D1 hs, AAA players playing in summer leagues and the like, your words will be parsed. And the reality is that Moms aren't always taken any too seriously by coaches, advisors, or scouts. You'll want to learn the jargon and the ropes so that any discussions you particpate in with those people will be of benefit to your son. And there's no better place to learn than right here. Anything your son is going through, someone's son here is or has gone through as well.
After reading and asking questions, you'll gain more perspective. As you say, this isn't stuff you can talk about with too many people. Over the years on this board we've had guys come out of nowhere to make a major impact, guys making a splash at Omaha, and top round guys in the draft. We've also had families who were told by scouts they were X team's #1 choice at Y position who then were not drafted at all, and guys who 'understood' they were walking into a starting position at college who road the pine. And guys with injuries, guys going through ops, guys playing their last game at a number of levels.
The validity of what you're told is dependant on the speaker. When it comes to the pro's, for example, if you're not talking to the GM (maybe the VP of Player Development), you'd have to be intimately familiar with the speaker's position in the organization (regional, crosschecker, etc) AND how much juice the guy's got with the front office before you can take those words to heart.
There are so many things to consider pro v college if your son has that choice. If he has the pro's in his eyes right now, consider one dose of reality: first rounders through NDFA, a current minor league ballplayer has a 5% chance of seeing one day in the majors. 3% will have a career.
Your son has to take care of business in the classroom and on the field. You can help immeasurably by keeping him focused and balanced. And doing some research to help him to know all his options.
Don't forget to have fun!
) knows what I would have said!2Fast, every once in a while (and we have had several recently) people come on to post just to stir things up. Because of those recent posts, your initial post was viewed more skeptically than it would have been at another time. But that's been cleared up, so hang around and get addicted like the rest of us!
As Fungo has said, without context, tone of voice, or body language, we all have only words to respond to. So when you refer to D1 hs, AAA players playing in summer leagues and the like, your words will be parsed. And the reality is that Moms aren't always taken any too seriously by coaches, advisors, or scouts. You'll want to learn the jargon and the ropes so that any discussions you particpate in with those people will be of benefit to your son. And there's no better place to learn than right here. Anything your son is going through, someone's son here is or has gone through as well.
After reading and asking questions, you'll gain more perspective. As you say, this isn't stuff you can talk about with too many people. Over the years on this board we've had guys come out of nowhere to make a major impact, guys making a splash at Omaha, and top round guys in the draft. We've also had families who were told by scouts they were X team's #1 choice at Y position who then were not drafted at all, and guys who 'understood' they were walking into a starting position at college who road the pine. And guys with injuries, guys going through ops, guys playing their last game at a number of levels.
The validity of what you're told is dependant on the speaker. When it comes to the pro's, for example, if you're not talking to the GM (maybe the VP of Player Development), you'd have to be intimately familiar with the speaker's position in the organization (regional, crosschecker, etc) AND how much juice the guy's got with the front office before you can take those words to heart.
There are so many things to consider pro v college if your son has that choice. If he has the pro's in his eyes right now, consider one dose of reality: first rounders through NDFA, a current minor league ballplayer has a 5% chance of seeing one day in the majors. 3% will have a career.
Your son has to take care of business in the classroom and on the field. You can help immeasurably by keeping him focused and balanced. And doing some research to help him to know all his options.
Don't forget to have fun!
quote:Originally posted by Fungo via ClevelandDad:
[QUOTE]For instance, when you posted your son hit a 435 ft. shot the first thing I do is go to my son's college website archives and re-read the article that describes in detail the 450 ft. shot he hit against the University of Tennessee in 2004. ---- Luckily my son's was farther and I was not relegated to second place and I could be objective in our exchange.
Always important to remain objective!
QUOTE]450 would be 2nd place....
You would think a kid with this much talent, especially in the State of Florida where a disproportionate number of scouts hang out, would have more exposure publicly? That was my question.
quote:In order to be more accurate, I asked my husband to clarify the distance our son has been hitting with a wooden bat. He is apparently averaging 390, has hit 425 (not 435 as I enthused earlier). He was hitting over 400 with an aluminum bat this past junior year season and is increasing his distance and power over time.
2Fast, I'll admit that I was skeptical, but when I saw this, well, I know of a 2009 who can do this. 2B played behind him in a couple of tournaments last fall, so he and I both saw it with our own eyes. He is a phenomenal natural hitter. He is also very, very fast, and I'm sure he is getting a lot of attention. From what I know, he has good people around him and a bright future. I don't think it's your son because some things in your description don't match up with this player. But just wanted to vouch for the fact that these guys are out there. Just in case, PM me if we are talking about the same player.
We all get excited about our players. I had to learn to tone it down, too (I'm not always successful!). But you have gotten some very good advice.
quote:You would think a kid with this much talent, especially in the State of Florida where a disproportionate number of scouts hang out, would have more exposure publicly? That was my question.
Scouts don't post here much. Florida is a big state with lots of ball players. It could one of several kids. You can go to one of several summer tournaments and see 400 foot bombs all...day...long. I've seen several balls go over batters eyes in summer games.
I don't care if scouts post here. Show me some PG, BA, and other top Florida players lists. That would be a start. Every player with extraordinary abilities have a book on them.
Show the book.
Show the book.
I understand what Dad04 means.
My son's friend was a masher, when it went over the fence it was in the next county. He broke county records one year. He also had a rocket for an arm. Not a lot of scout interest as a senior (and there were plenty of scouts at many games). He didn't play his position well and he got slow, and he developed a man's body by 18.
You see that often here. Think about the first round position players drafted here from Florida. Eric Hosmer, Yonder Alonso, Jemile Weeks, Buster Posey. That's the type of player that you have to be to get mega attention here in Florida and play against the best competition (in HS and college). Actually, that's the type of player you have to be anywhere to be considered a very top prospect.
Scouts are everywhere in FL, they notice everyone, but because you get lots of attention, doesn't mean you are a top prospect.
Which brings up another point, all scouts see different things in different players. Some scouts are better than others at their job. The scout is also a salesman, he has to sell you to his boss and his boss to his boss. If you find a scout who really beleives that you are special, different, you are in luck and you will go far.
My son's friend was a masher, when it went over the fence it was in the next county. He broke county records one year. He also had a rocket for an arm. Not a lot of scout interest as a senior (and there were plenty of scouts at many games). He didn't play his position well and he got slow, and he developed a man's body by 18.
You see that often here. Think about the first round position players drafted here from Florida. Eric Hosmer, Yonder Alonso, Jemile Weeks, Buster Posey. That's the type of player that you have to be to get mega attention here in Florida and play against the best competition (in HS and college). Actually, that's the type of player you have to be anywhere to be considered a very top prospect.
Scouts are everywhere in FL, they notice everyone, but because you get lots of attention, doesn't mean you are a top prospect.
Which brings up another point, all scouts see different things in different players. Some scouts are better than others at their job. The scout is also a salesman, he has to sell you to his boss and his boss to his boss. If you find a scout who really beleives that you are special, different, you are in luck and you will go far.
quote:Show me some PG, BA, and other top Florida players lists. That would be a start. Every player with extraordinary abilities have a book on them.
The player I'm talking about is on the 2008 PG national showcase list. I heard he opened some eyes with his time in the 60 at the Metrodome. There is most definitely a book on him.
quote:Originally posted by OLDSLUGGER8:
I don't care if scouts post here. Show me some PG, BA, and other top Florida players lists. That would be a start. Every player with extraordinary abilities have a book on them.
Show the book.
There have been literally hundreds of Florida high school position players with power, drafted in the past several years who hit the c r ap out of the ball. A bunch of them are in the big leagues or close to it. It's not my fault you are in a part of the world where that doesn't happen. I'm not going to waste my time naming them. Go to PG Crosschecker. Pay some Money and you can get the list of Who's Who.
quote:Originally posted by Dad04:
It's not my fault you are in a part of the world where that doesn't happen.Pay some Money and you can get the list of Who's Who.
To 2Fast,
While there is a lot of good advice in these exchanges, there are also a lot of crusty, old, pseudo-experts who take personal pleasure in "beat-downs" of new participants. Don't fall for their bait; that's what they enjoy most. BTW, there's not a rocket scientist in the whole bunch. These characters weren't born with their omniscience -- they learned it -- most likely from people with better manners. I am glad they share their knowledge and most of it is solid, fact-based info. Just pick the advice you find helpful and ignore the rest. You are welcome to this playground and should be encouraged to ask questions.
BTW, I revealed the UGA overrecruiting problem in March and was verbally assaulted with a lot of negative comments -- many of them didn't make a whit of sense. (Now it has become a topic again -- this time with even more info documenting the extent of the problem and how it hurts players. See topic on this web site.)
Best wishes to your son. Be objective regarding your son's talent. Play your cards close in the recruiting process. Don't be overly impressed with any of these recruiters/coaches, pro or college. Don't commit too early. Let the process play out. If he has a good offer from a school he likes, he can sign the NLI in November (which is the earliest he can sign). Earlier verbal commitments gain him nothing and may discourage other schools from looking at him. (And if you read the UGA overrecruiting topic, you will see how this can ruin a potential good player's career -- college and baseball.) The recruiting process almost never plays out like you predict or want it to, so be flexible -- and don't look back. If someone misleads you, write them off -- toot sweetly (ok, I studied spanish, not french).
Your son will only get better if he goes to college -- and hopefully will be even more valuable. Read the book "Moneyball, the art of winning an unfair game" by Michael Lewis to gain insight on how pro teams evaluate players. You will discover that the chances of making it to "The Show" are much greater for those who attend college. It gives young men a chance to mature and develop -- while having a backup plan. If pro scouts are looking at your son now, they won't stop looking.
Good Luck !!
While there is a lot of good advice in these exchanges, there are also a lot of crusty, old, pseudo-experts who take personal pleasure in "beat-downs" of new participants. Don't fall for their bait; that's what they enjoy most. BTW, there's not a rocket scientist in the whole bunch. These characters weren't born with their omniscience -- they learned it -- most likely from people with better manners. I am glad they share their knowledge and most of it is solid, fact-based info. Just pick the advice you find helpful and ignore the rest. You are welcome to this playground and should be encouraged to ask questions.
BTW, I revealed the UGA overrecruiting problem in March and was verbally assaulted with a lot of negative comments -- many of them didn't make a whit of sense. (Now it has become a topic again -- this time with even more info documenting the extent of the problem and how it hurts players. See topic on this web site.)
Best wishes to your son. Be objective regarding your son's talent. Play your cards close in the recruiting process. Don't be overly impressed with any of these recruiters/coaches, pro or college. Don't commit too early. Let the process play out. If he has a good offer from a school he likes, he can sign the NLI in November (which is the earliest he can sign). Earlier verbal commitments gain him nothing and may discourage other schools from looking at him. (And if you read the UGA overrecruiting topic, you will see how this can ruin a potential good player's career -- college and baseball.) The recruiting process almost never plays out like you predict or want it to, so be flexible -- and don't look back. If someone misleads you, write them off -- toot sweetly (ok, I studied spanish, not french).
Your son will only get better if he goes to college -- and hopefully will be even more valuable. Read the book "Moneyball, the art of winning an unfair game" by Michael Lewis to gain insight on how pro teams evaluate players. You will discover that the chances of making it to "The Show" are much greater for those who attend college. It gives young men a chance to mature and develop -- while having a backup plan. If pro scouts are looking at your son now, they won't stop looking.
Good Luck !!
Can we say exaggeration ???