Is Travel Ball a necessity?

Most HS and younger baseball parents you talk to overestimate D1 baseball players and underestimate the other levels of college baseball.  All of the kids I know who play/are going to play D3 are all very good baseball players. These are really above average HS players, some with very high HS baseball accolades. People definitely underestimate the talent and extra work these guys have had to put in to get that opportunity to play D3 baseball or any level of college baseball. If you are an average HS player you may get an invite to try out for a D3 school but you better make big gains or you won't be on the team playing in the spring.

There are probably D3 programs that are really bad and can't attract talent.  There are are also really bad D1 teams. Watch the lower RPI D1 teams and conferences play. They may be local or they even pop up on tv every now and then. Just as all D3 isnt created equal all D1 isnt created equal and there are many kids playing in the ever exhaulted D1 level that are not the top 2% of the HS baseball playing population.

There are D3 pitchers who cruise low 80s, but HS pitchers who only throw low 80s get raked on a regular basis.  College pitchers at any level have to have something extra to survive. Some have another gear they can go to when a big strike out is needed, some just have perfect control, and what most people don't realize is the difference in the quality and control of secondary pitches between HS and college level pitchers.  If there is a chance go watch a college summer league where the levels will be mixed up "lower" level guys will get out D1 guys all of the time with what looks like underwhelming stuff, but they know how to get outs.

Back to the OP you don't have to play big time travel to play college baseball. If you are shooting for one of the 40-50 D1 schools that are trying to win in Omaha every year then you should be on a team that goes to every big time PG event to maximize your chance of being seen by those coaches. If you are not at that talent level then you can throw all of the other schools regardless of division in a big pot and mix it up.  You will have to find a local travel or legion team that lets you keep improving every year and also take that extra money and get bigger, stronger, and faster. You will have to do a lot of research on different college programs and find the best fit baseball and academic wise.  Formulate a good plan and execute it. There are many good threads on this site that can be searched to help with that.

My son played for a very competitive, but very affordable travel team. It was made up of generally blue collar families, and every player on that team played in college. He was lucky because they played in SoCal and had high level competition in the Arizona/SoCal region and did not have to travel very far. He told me the other day that this really prepared him for both HS and college ball as he had faced high level competition growing up which gave him confidence against any player. He also played in a couple of "pick up" PG teams when his travel team did not go to a PG event. So there are ways to get it done cost effectively, but you have to work at it.

I realize this is more difficult outside of hotbed baseball areas, but with research and work it can be done. Unless you are a blue chip player just thinking that you just need to be on a team is a huge mistake. You have to do your homework, and know what level your son can compete at, and be in contact with those schools and let them know you will be a "X" event, the team and your schedule.  Don't waste your time (or the coaches) trying to get on a top 50 RPI college team if you are not that level of player. 

Regarding the D3 discussion, PG is correct, in the D3 world there is a huge variation in levels of baseball. My son's national championship D3 team had 6 pitchers throwing in the 90's. (BTW they had a lefty who was very effective at 82) When they played a top 50 RPI D1 team their pitchers were generally sitting 95, and we were generally sitting 91.  Within his D3 league there were a couple of teams that could not consistently beat a good HS team IMO. 

If I had to do it again, I would focus more on training, skills, strength and conditioning, and a little less travel, but travel ball is a must IMO if you are going to play in college at a high level. 

SanDiegoRealist posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

If a kid truly wants to play, is willing to go anywhere, his parents can afford it, and has even a high school level talent there is a school that he can play at.

 I've heard of multiple pitchers throwing 75 at a D3.  Some D3's can beat low level D1's every day of the week, but some D3's would get beat by a 16u travel team every day of the week.  Not all D3's are created equal. 

So you are guaranteeing this? You know this definitively? You act as though all you have to do is have the desire and the wallet and you will be able to play college baseball. That is not the case, and if you do get into a D3 program that has 50 guys on the roster (which seems to be the scenario you are painting), heaven help that player. Your contention that there are 16U teams who can beat some D3s is just ridiculous.

I didn't mean to offend ANYONE who had a kid playing or planning to play D3, I'm talking about the middle of nowhere, maybe won 3 games last year D3. As PG said there is a HUGE difference in talent levels across all of the D3 schools. 

So, yes, I'm sure, if a kid is that determined, his parents will support this, and he's willing to go anywhere, then yes there is a school he can play at. As for my 16u statement...well several more knowledgeable people have corroborated this. We can take this to a PM if you would like?

Nice.  This thread is becoming another valuable read for those entering the process.

Here's an aspect that I think is often overlooked when choosing the travel ball path...

Everyone talks about finding the travel teams that will go to the big events in Arizona, Georgia, etc.  Some players will end up playing at a college somewhere across the country or otherwise far from home.  But the reality is that the large majority of players will end up in-state or at a neighboring state (in-state/neighboring state tuition, closer to family and friends, more friends at those schools, colleges more likely to recruit in-state, social and geographical comfort level, etc. ).  A bit of roster browsing will drive this point home.  So, if the player likely falls into this bucket, logic would dictate to find a decent travel program that focuses on getting in front of schools in the immediate region.

It seems that most regions have such programs and this route can be far more cost-effective and realistically focused.  I think, in some other regions, there are probably opportunities for more travel teams to take this approach.  

I realize that those big national events attract RC's/HC's from schools from all parts of the country.  But those same RC's/HC's attend the better local and regional events as well.   And there are plenty of schools that don't have  the budgets to travel to the national events.

Edit to add:  If you take this immediate regional approach and then get personal invites to some of the larger national events, you then know it is much more likely to be worth while.  So, this approach could cover most everyone...  The outliers - the early D1 stud will know that national events will likely have value to them unless they, too, want to stay close to home.  High academics may include a regional Stanford Camp/Headfirst/PG Academic event.

CaCO3Girl posted:

SanDiegoRealist posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

If a kid truly wants to play, is willing to go anywhere, his parents can afford it, and has even a high school level talent there is a school that he can play at.

 I've heard of multiple pitchers throwing 75 at a D3.  Some D3's can beat low level D1's every day of the week, but some D3's would get beat by a 16u travel team every day of the week.  Not all D3's are created equal. 

So you are guaranteeing this? You know this definitively? You act as though all you have to do is have the desire and the wallet and you will be able to play college baseball. That is not the case, and if you do get into a D3 program that has 50 guys on the roster (which seems to be the scenario you are painting), heaven help that player. Your contention that there are 16U teams who can beat some D3s is just ridiculous.

I didn't mean to offend ANYONE who had a kid playing or planning to play D3, I'm talking about the middle of nowhere, maybe won 3 games last year D3. As PG said there is a HUGE difference in talent levels across all of the D3 schools. 

So, yes, I'm sure, if a kid is that determined, his parents will support this, and he's willing to go anywhere, then yes there is a school he can play at. As for my 16u statement...well several more knowledgeable people have corroborated this. We can take this to a PM if you would like?

We live two blocks from a D3 that is like CaCO3Girl describes. They just changed coaches, have lost most of their games the last two years and while I'm not positive about the 16u statement, I KNOW our high school varsity team would beat them, and the JV team would probably have as well.

Here's what I think CaCO3Girl is talking about.

One of our teammates was a solid first baseman in his HS career, good pitcher who didn't throw hard, but threw strikes. He got some interest from small D3s, including the one in our town, and could have played baseball for them.

He's also a REALLY smart honors kid who made the decision to take the academic free ride at a top end college where he has no shot at baseball.

So yes, I think everybody COULD find a place to play if that's what they REALLY want and they are willing to make the many compromises to do it. Most people aren't, and most people are right not to.

Kind of have to agree.....maybe not in a baseball hotbed like California or Florida, but in the Midwest almost any kid with any baseball talent can find a spot on a college team, whether it's D3, NAIA or Juco if he's just interested in playing baseball and doesn't  necessarily care how good or bad the team (or school) is.   There are several D3's within 50 miles of me that have a lot of kids playing who were in my son's HS league during the time he played and I've never even heard some of their names.  They weren't in any way "stars" on their HS teams....heck, I'm not even sure some of them were HS starters. 

Buckeye 2015 posted:

Kind of have to agree.....maybe not in a baseball hotbed like California or Florida, but in the Midwest almost any kid with any baseball talent can find a spot on a college team, whether it's D3, NAIA or Juco if he's just interested in playing baseball and doesn't  necessarily care how good or bad the team (or school) is.   There are several D3's within 50 miles of me that have a lot of kids playing who were in my son's HS league during the time he played and I've never even heard some of their names.  They weren't in any way "stars" on their HS teams....heck, I'm not even sure some of them were HS starters. 

California ... indeed the entire West Coast  ... is completely different from this.  There is only one 9 team D3 league in California.  And another one in Washington St and Oregon.   Excepting Cal Tech ... which is a very weak program, but actually getting better and more serious, competition for roster spots is VERY intense.  Believe me.   Look at it this way, in the 9 D3 schools in California, there are something like 270 total varsity roster spots.  (Some of the schools carry less than 30 usually, some carry a little more.  None carry even 40, let alone  50 on their varsity rosters as I have seem some midwest programs do.  A few do have JV programs that bring the total of number of guys in the program a little higher.)    You can bet  that there are a LOT more than 270 guys who would love to have one of those spots.  The competition is pretty fierce.  

I did the research on this once,  I think I remember the numbers.  The combined population of California,  Oregon, and Washington state is like 50 million or so.  There are a total of 18 D3 baseball programs in this three states.   In Ohio alone, which has a population of only 11 million,  there are 21 D3 programs -- spread I think over 3 wholly  in state conference, with at least one school playing in the UAA  which has teams from several different states. 

 So yeah, it's a lot harder to find a place to play in California,  and the West Coast generally, than in the Midwest.  That's the disadvantage of  being the last part of the country to be settled, I guess. 

Believe me, you won't find any high school scrubs on any D3 roster in this state.  Cal Tech is a special case.   They are just such a super competitive school that offers only very demanding STEM majors,  It must be hard for them to find players who can both produce on the field and in their world class classrooms.  But I know they are trying.  Usually their roster is really tiny by comparison to even the smallish, by D3 standards, of rosters in the rest of the league. 

Many California kids who want to continuing playing .... at whatever level ... are forced to play out of state or hang up their cleats if they are truly determined to stay in California.  And its not like they are competing only with kids from California for the scarce in state roster spots.  My son's school usually has kids from up and down the West Coast and Hawaii in its rosters, with a few guys from elsewhere in the US or even abroad thrown in now and then.  And it's not just a new crop of Frosh they bring in every year.  They bring in many JC transfers -- mostly from in state -- and small but steady stream of D1 and D2 drop downs. 

My own son, applied to colleges  in 7 different states precisely because he was willing to go anywhere to keep on playing.  He was fortunate to land a spot in California.  But when he got there he was quite frankly astounded by how intensely competitive it was from day 1.  Not just that but his coaches were really, really serious about winning.  

I couldn't agree with Cabbagedad more.  I have forwarded a link to this thread to two friends.  Lots of wisdom being shared.  

Thank you. 

Sluggerdad had an interesting way to look at the D3 numbers which I had not really thought about. There are approx 350 D3 schools (I believe not sure about baseball, but lets assume)

Take the top 25 D3 schools in the country with rosters of approx 40. This gives you 1,000 slots that will be pretty competitive, mostly D1 caliber to some degree. 

Total players: 1,000 

Take the next 50 schools which will also be competitive, but not hyper competitive. Some D1 talent mixed in with high performing D3.

Total players: 2,000

Take the next 150 schools which will be slightly better than most top HS programs.

Total players: 6,0000

Bottom 125 schools where most HS players could play.

Total players: 5,000

Gives you an idea of the population and skill level. 

Whoa 

The number of HS baseball players is almost 489,000.  

FROM THE NCAA (from 2015-2016 numbers)

So while those going on to play in college (at D1, D2 or D3 level) are not necessarily the TOP 7.1% capability wise as there are other factors at play, it is still a fact that 93% or so of HS players DO NOT play collegiately.  

I therefore believe it is a big jump to say that most HS players could play.  Most do not because most can't.  There are exceptions of poor programs, coaches who take any warm body with a checkbook, etc. But these numbers are facts and speak for themselves.  

FYI the percentages are even lower for womens softball.

Twoboys posted:

Whoa 

The number of HS baseball players is almost 489,000.  

FROM THE NCAA (from 2015-2016 numbers)

	High School Participants	NCAA Participants	Overall % HS to NCAA	% HS to NCAA Division I	% HS to NCAA Division II	% HS to NCAA Division III
Baseball	488,815	34,554	7.1%	2.1%	2.2%	2.8%

 

So while those going on to play in college (at D1, D2 or D3 level) are not necessarily the TOP 7.1% capability wise as there are other factors at play, it is still a fact that 93% or so of HS players DO NOT play collegiately.  

I therefore believe it is a big jump to say that most HS players could play.  Most do not because most can't.  There are exceptions of poor programs, coaches who take any warm body with a checkbook, etc. But these numbers are facts and speak for themselves.  

FYI the percentages are even lower for womens softball.

I agree with your statement that most don't because most cannot.

But the above numbers are a bit misleading (I'm generally skeptical of anything put out by the NCAA). 

First, if a kid does not play baseball throughout high school, is it fair to count him in the analysis? Around here, most schools have Frosh, JV, and Varsity. A significant percentage of the frosh baseball players -- perhaps half -- never go on to play varsity, never mind college. I would venture to guess that the number of seniors in that "high school participants" is roughly 100,000, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were lower.

Then, how many kids are there who do in fact go on to play college baseball but quit, get cut, etc.? Those kids are not counted in current "NCAA participants," but they did go on to play baseball collegiately, at least for awhile. In addition, kids who go on to play at NAIA schools (there are about 180 of those schools with baseball teams) also aren't counted in those numbers. And kids who go to jucos aren't counted either -- there are hundreds of jucos with baseball teams.

My guestimate is that, out of kids who play all the way through high school, the percentage who go on to play (however briefly) at some level of college (D1, D2, D3, NAIA, Juco) is probably in the 12-15% range.

Yes good to be skeptical and think this through.  Also, now a growing number of non Americans playing collegiately.  Not counted either.  

Also we shouldn't assume that every high school baseball player WANTS to play baseball in college.  

 Last year the varsity team at my sons school had 11 seniors. 8 are playing in college but three of those 8 are playing football not baseball. The three that are choosing not to play baseball; one is a high academic kid that I swear will rule the world one day, one isn't going to college, and the other is going to trade school to join the family electrician business.

Twoboys posted:

Whoa 

The number of HS baseball players is almost 489,000.  

FROM THE NCAA (from 2015-2016 numbers)

	High School Participants	NCAA Participants	Overall % HS to NCAA	% HS to NCAA Division I	% HS to NCAA Division II	% HS to NCAA Division III
Baseball	488,815	34,554	7.1%	2.1%	2.2%	2.8%

 

So while those going on to play in college (at D1, D2 or D3 level) are not necessarily the TOP 7.1% capability wise as there are other factors at play, it is still a fact that 93% or so of HS players DO NOT play collegiately.  

I therefore believe it is a big jump to say that most HS players could play.  Most do not because most can't.  There are exceptions of poor programs, coaches who take any warm body with a checkbook, etc. But these numbers are facts and speak for themselves.  

FYI the percentages are even lower for womens softball.

Also need to consider that some players will not be academically eligible as well.