Ivy Tuition for Upper Middle Class

2020Hopeful posted:

 

In terms of what my son's career goals are, that is as clear as mud at this point.  He is very strong in the sciences and math and loves biology, so I would not be surprised if he did something down that path (of course, I know from following this board that STEM degrees are tough for athletes). 

 

This very point indicates to me why he should continue to pursue an Ivy school. Schools stress baseball/academic balance and travel not as much as other conferences. Most Ivy baseball "off-day" is Monday which allows the athletes to take their labs then. Good luck!

Wow, this is some depressing stuff  

In terms of FA at least.  We are middle class, 1 income family in a high tax area, average house is nearly paid off, no new cars, no debt other then mortgage, never have taken a fancy vacations nor has the family (of 5) have ever flown anywhere at it is going to come back and haunt me?  I have 4.5 years before my oldest heads to college.  Maybe I need the wife to start looking at jobs at the local college.......

Dadof3 I think you have time to make adjustments. From what I recall my accountant explained to me that the colleges use 3 years of data for coming up with the baseline. If that is accurate you can move assets, set up a trust or whatever to shield yourself but I believe you will need to move fairly quickly.

The academic system is ridiculously outdated, ineffective and amazingly biased but your options are very limited. There may be a time where the cost of college isn't worth the investment but IMO we aren't there yet. As with most huge institutional type systems it will take a long long time to change and it may never happen until you see schools literally just closing up. I know many of the smaller liberal arts schools are struggling but that for the most part is from mismanagement. I do believe it would be good for the whole system to see roughly 5% or 10% failure rate among Universities over the next few years. There to many schools doing a crap job and also to many students who really shouldn't necessarily be there paying the tuition.

Bottom line is you are going to pay the money somewhere and both sides know it!

I'm going to be devil's advocate for just a second.  Financial aid is there to help those who truly cannot afford to attend college, not for those who move assets and create trusts in order to shield their income from a financial aid application.  There is not an infinite budget for FA at any school, including the well endowed Ivies.  This means that when they give GRANTS to those who might be able to pay a bit more, they have less to give to someone who truly may need it.  

It stinks to be "upper middle class" or just middle class tbh for financial id applications.  You get caught not quite having enough but maybe not really needing it the way others may, and all because you made smart financial decisions and had good jobs along the way.  Believe me, I have felt trapped.  

But, please, let's remember, that financial aid is not a given right.  It is meant for financial NEED.  Paying for college is hard for many of us - tightening the proverbial belt, taking out loans, using the house for cash flow, spending less, changing cars/vacations etc.  

And also those who donate to colleges do not want their money ultimately to subsidize those who can truly afford college -- they do so to help those who truly cannot.  

Twoboys posted:

I'm going to be devil's advocate for just a second.  Financial aid is there to help those who truly cannot afford to attend college, not for those who move assets and create trusts in order to shield their income from a financial aid application.  There is not an infinite budget for FA at any school, including the well endowed Ivies.  This means that when they give GRANTS to those who might be able to pay a bit more, they have less to give to someone who truly may need it.  

It stinks to be "upper middle class" or just middle class tbh.  You get caught not quite having enough but maybe not really needing it the way others may, and all because you made smart financial decisions and had good jobs along the way.  Believe me, I have felt trapped.  

But, please, let's remember, that financial aid is not a given right.  It is meant for financial NEED.  Paying for college is hard for many of us - tightening the proverbial belt, taking out loans, using the house for cash flow, spending less, changing cars/vacations etc.  

And also those who donate to colleges do not want their money ultimately to subsidize those who can truly afford college -- they do so to help those who truly cannot.  

The reason for these financial machinations is that colleges don't distinguish between those in true NEED and those who simply have not been thrifty and squandered their income along the way, and than they raise the full retail price to such absurd levels that it's crazy not to try to game the system.  I think most would agree that truly needy people could use a break.

No it doesn't "stink" to be upper middle class. You might not be able to pay for harvard but 99%  of the lower class people don't get a scholarship for Harvard either.

It isn't everything easy for upper middle class but generally upper middle class people can afford a house in a good neighborhood, one to two cars, healthcare,  a decent college education, good food, a retirement plan,smartphones,  music lessons for kids...

Now it is better to be a millionaire but it sucks much more to be in the lower class living from paycheck to paycheck.

When I said it stinks to be middle class, I meant with regards to paying for college as most people end up with little or no financial aid given they own homes and have good jobs and some savings.  Not that it stinks in life to be middle class.  

I honestly like how it is in Germany. I can understand why some would not like it but depending on your salary you only get like 55% of your net salary (assuming you make 70K+, you get more if you make less) but you have high school, college, healthcare and even retirement plan covered (albeit it is adviced to get a little extra)

Dominik85 posted:

I honestly like how it is in Germany. I can understand why some would not like it but depending on your salary you only get like 55% of your net salary (assuming you make 70K+, you get more if you make less) but you have high school, college, healthcare and even retirement plan covered (albeit it is adviced to get a little extra)

55% is about what people take home in the US, after federal/state/FICA taxes.  We pay to defend the world so we don't get the freebies they do in other countries.

Dominik85 posted:

I honestly like how it is in Germany. I can understand why some would not like it but depending on your salary you only get like 55% of your net salary (assuming you make 70K+, you get more if you make less) but you have high school, college, healthcare and even retirement plan covered (albeit it is adviced to get a little extra)

Yuck!!  I prefer my money and my choice where to spend it.  But let's not turn this into a political thread and the merits of socialism

Smitty28 posted:

The reason for these financial machinations is that colleges don't distinguish between those in true NEED and those who simply have not been thrifty and squandered their income along the way, and than they raise the full retail price to such absurd levels that it's crazy not to try to game the system.  I think most would agree that truly needy people could use a break.

Couldn't agree more.  While we are "considered" to be middle class, it sure as heck doesn't feel like it.  We make sacrifices like many people do.  The thought of paying full price for college because we have a middle class income is frightening.   i don't believe anyone should have to risk losing their home to pay for college either.

I’m a firm believer attend the best college a student can get accepted and the family can afford. Everyone in my family attended Ivies or other top twenty-five high academics. But anyone can get a college degree. They can attend the local JuCo for two years. They can join the military reserves and receive benefits for the next two years.

The path may be JuCo and mid level state university instead of Ivy or other high academic. But do your best, get the piece of paper and kick down a few doors. After a few years of professional success advancement is mostly about professional ability.