Jaeger Long-Toss to 97 MPH!

Good video. While I'm not that familiar with the "Jaeger method" the video seems to show what most players are doing anyway. Haven't most coaches been teaching their pitchers to do arm circles, stretches, bands and long toss for years?

"Haven't most coaches been teaching their pitchers to do arm circles, stretches, bands and long toss for years?"

Yes but the technique that they are using isn't normally what you see..the loose all the way out and looking for peak effort on the way in is the hallmark of the method. The coaches I've seen use it don't make it such a systematic drill..just sorta go on out there and chunk the hide.

I have had my kids on Jaeger long toss going on 4 years. My eldest has been to 3 Jaeger camps.

Our guys have been doing all of that and more for years. Non hit 97mph. That is a standard part of our workup every game and practice. Also use medicine ball and front arm circles, wrist circles.
LT starts on 1 knee and isolates wrist then develops into LT as far as you can throw then pull down at dcreasing distances.

Wooooo Hoooooo I'm starting tomorrow and should be hitting 97MPH by when....

Actually I used to LT with my son until last year and it was great for building up my arm for BP. I did get up to a blazing 68MPH. Those kids stood no chance against this arm......from 30ft.

Actually Jaeger stuff is great, their J bands are nice getting on and off and take the stress out of the wrist.

Okay.....how does a crow hop and a 30 deg launch angle benefit a pitcher?

Actually, a 34-36 degree launch angle optimizes distance.

As explained in the video, the method promotes freedom in the arm by removing false limitations of the throwing motion. Everything is stretched out allowing greater range of motion. I believe this results in a quicker arm.

It is hard to throw a ball for distance if you do not have proper mechanics and a quick arm. Long toss thus promotes repeatable mechanics and trains the arm to throw quicker for maximum distance. The benefit really comes in the pull-down phase when this stretched out, quick arm is being trained to throw on a line for accuracy.

All I can safely say is it has worked wonders for my own son.

KBAT where are the coaches? Can't believe they would stand by and not correct the LT. Go to any game and the other teams are doing LT and I would assume some know how to do it.

I see how it would work, but why wouldn't infielder's do it?

Also, how many minutes is long toss done for?

i still believe thats a bunch of garbage, why throw the ball high into the air? greg maddux doesnt do longtoss at more than 70 feet because it changes your release point and totally alters muscle memory and arm motion... he could throw 95 when he was younger

The whole team does LT.

LT is done at varying lengths so that the realease points are not affected. The LT is done to strengthen the arm and is done in an arc. Our teams do it from a young age and never stop.
I always go to a pro game early to watch and they also LT as well as use the surgical bands before the game.
My bet is that Maddox does LT.

Unfortunately a lack of good coaching is the norm and not the exception. This is why parents should learn everything they can about the game and conditioning. It can be done by reading some great books that are out there to start. Also attend high level games and watch what the guys are doimg. Pitcher have a definite routine and start their LT by wrist throws and drills that isolate different parts of the arm.
Every game should start with stretches, running and LT. It is important to vary the length of the LT and even the angle because you are trying to develop the whole shoulder capsul.

quote:

Originally posted by bakstop007:
i still believe thats a bunch of garbage, why throw the ball high into the air? greg maddux doesnt do longtoss

Wrong. Greg Maddux most definitely long-tosses, and here is the link to prove it.

Greg Maddux

quote:

Originally posted by bakstop007:
i still believe thats a bunch of garbage, why throw the ball high into the air? greg maddux doesnt do longtoss at more than 70 feet because it changes your release point and totally alters muscle memory and arm motion... he could throw 95 when he was younger

bakstop: What experience do you have in this area to belive it is a bunch of garbage?

I'm new to posting here but am very interested in this topic. How many people how read/seen information about Dick Mills (www.pitching.com)and his pitching ideas. He believes in gaining stength and speed by pitching game speed bullpens as opposed to long toss and other "traditional" methods. I like his thinking and his science based studies.

flyer, Welcome to HSBBW. Please do not subscribe to the "bullpen only" philosphy. We have had many discussions on M**** on this site, and you should do a search to read some of the comments. IMHO if you follow his methods you are doing the worst thing possible for your development. Nearly all MLB pitchers long-toss. How many follow the M**** methodology? Bullpens only, weighted balls, these are not what make you throw hard. Throwing makes you throw hard!

Not sure if my players will throw 97 but I have been using this program for 3 weeks and have seen amazing results from it. I used the same program for 9 years and this is the first time in my coaching career that I have switched and I am sold. I have freshman that could barely throw the ball 90 feet on lob and they are now after 3 weeks throwing 120 feet on a line.

my experience is i just started pitching and i throw in the low 90's and ive never ever longtossed a day in my life.
im not completely closed to the idea of longtoss, im thinking of giving it a shot in the next couple days cause what do i have to lose. i guess i was a little harsh with my first comments

Alan Jaeger and Jim Vatcher are the best in the industry. We have been using their long-toss methods for over a decade and have had amazing results with our guys. It is the cornerstone of our training.

The key to the program is doing a great job finishing the long toss exercise. You want to emphasize pulling down on the release point as you move in gradually to 60'. The idea is to compress that 300' long toss into a 60' throw. When our kids learned to "finish" like that, their velocity immediately increased.

how often should you long-toss?

quote:

Originally posted by catcher_21:
how often should you long-toss?

Depends on the shape of your arm.

Start 2x per week, move up to 3x per week, then go to every day or at least every practice day. In season day after pitching my son would do an easy long toss (no pull down) just to keep his arm loose. All other days he LT's including pitching days, but he would also do less pull down on start days.

Jaeger folks will tell you to adapt it to your arm and body based on experience.

For bakstop: Zumaya credits Jaeger for putting 3-5MPH on his FB so even though you may be a hard thrower because of genetics you can always improve on what you have.

what do you all think of this article then?

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=33636

I think there will always be nay sayers with anything. I am in sales and marketing. The bulk of my off season time is preparing counter arguments for my competitors statements so my sales staff are prepared to handle these questions. It is a point - counter point argument that goes on constantly in daily life.

What I do know is that I have seen a marked improvement in my sons arm strength, velocity and accuracy since beginning programs that incorporate Jaegers and Wolforths type of philosphy. Long Toss and a tremendous amount of core work is the key to the programs.

My son has the same problem as many young athletes, while he was in pretty good shape he was soft in the core and did not throw enough on non game or practice days. His core is strengthening daily and he throws almost daily when he it is not pouring rain here in Missouri.

I guess time will tell, but when my son and I were at a Royals-White Sox Game a while back, we observed
both teams starting pitchers and catchers long tossing about 1 hour before game time. Both were long tossing distance, then drawing down as they moved closer. Both pitchers threw 90+ during the game. That was all it took for my son to buy into the program hook line and sinker.

Regardless of whether long toss itself increases velocity or not (and we believe it has for my son),
My son has a huge confidence boost. As he warms up before games, he loves to show off the gun with the new firepower. He hopes and prays that baserunners will attempt to run on him. While my son is somewhat of a freak that still pitches as well as catches, he was pretty pumped yesterday when the JUCO coach yelled to his runner on first base to be careful because the catcher had a gun and wasn't afraid to use it. I looked at my son squatting behind the plate and all I could see was teeth through the mask from the huge smile he had on his face.

Son has always had a nice arm, and good mechanics........but not like now. Everyone has their opinions, but my son has a tremendous amount of respect for Jaeger and Wolforth and their methods. Son used to be sore after pitching or having to throw a lot during weekend games......NO MORE.......he hasn't had arm pain since beginning the conditioning programs.

I have heard it said that baseball is 90 percent mental - if you think something is working for you - IT IS. My son has made a believer out of me and about everyone that has watched him grow up playing ball.

To Dick Mill's defense, when younggun was 11yrs old and wanted to learn how to pitch effectively I researched many pitching training technique's and finally felt comfortable with Dick Mills. Younggun's Coaches didn't know how to teach him nor could I.

Granted this was Dick Mills program back in 2001 and I know he has evolved in many areas and trains of thought. The few things my son learned from Dick's training was basic mechanics, workouts, mental conditioning, and consistency. I am not a big advocate on weighted balls from what I've read and heard so he never attempted that drill.

Today he is a freshman in college on scholarship to pitch so I will be the first to give Dick Mills credit.

I believe LT is crucial for pitchers in the offseason especially to improve velocity.

quote:

Originally posted by johnny appleseed:
what do you all think of this article then?

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=33636

Dick Mills attack Garbage.

He is however correct about mechanics which Wolforth, Jaeger and others concur.

If you followed his advice all you would do as a pitcher is throw off the mound...rather silly I think.

I know I have seen this on the site before, but I can't locate it now. What I am looking for is the estimate of what velocity must be to throw a ball 300 feet, and speeds greater than and less than 300 ft. Thanks for any help.

i continuously hear in general 90mph = 300 feet

Not quite. According to a graduate study done at Florida State University, at sea-level and utilizing an optimum angle of 36 degrees, one would have to throw the ball 315 feet.

Velocity and Distance

Click the link above to open a Java applet that allows you to change variables and equate velocity to throwing distance. Although the study was done with bat exit speed in mind, the same physics apply to a thrown ball as well.

Bum - Thanks, this is what I was looking for.

Speaking of long toss, is it normal for a boy to feel stretching (bicep and forearm) and a tingle in their arm during the pull down?

No....check the placement of his fingers and thumb on the ball and make sure his shoulder is not dropping.

Hmmm.Socal coach

Promoting long toss with AMAZING results. Not cool, long toss is part off a pitching routine and not a cure-all .Yes we long toss, but long toss programs? NO WAY! Someone came up with a structured throwing routine thats it !It's as if someone came up with a structured bullpen session. Keep your money in your pocket. There are a couple of MLB pitching coaches that are more interested in selling books then winning pennants. This as I read before is for the guppies of the world. I better stop here.

MLB vet....I am not promoting anything I simply am saying that I have used this program, as opposed to the program I have used for the past nine years, and have got amazing results from it. I have no affiliation and could care less who is selling what, including you. I am not sure why saying I got amazing results from it is not cool but that is your thought just like what I said is my thought. In fact, if I am correct about who you are, when I was coaching at your high school alma mater I wish that I had had this program because I feel it would have greatly helped those players that I coached.

PS I spent no money to get this program.

MLBVet: Don't get your panties all tied up in a knot. Guys like you (and Jaeger, Wolforth, Jon Doyle, et al) make money off guys like me (and bunches of others on this site) by packaging up your knowlege so we can use it to help improve our kids/players. Some of the stuff is good (Jaeger, Doyle, others) and some of the stuff is BS (Mills, Marshall, others) This site helps us figure this out.

Yes you are right it is just one piece of the puzzle and I don't think anyone has said here it is the holy grail of pitching. Frankly the Jbands ($35, and thrive on throwing video $35) are the best $70 I have spent on pitching related training materials, lessons, camps, etc.

Oh yea a bunch the teams in the MLB still limit their pitchers to 120' so even those who supposedly know about this stuff don't know....

socalhscoach you are right. We both expressed our opinions.I have read other threads constantly promoting videos ,web sites and books and they come from the same people .So when I hear someone say AMAZING I think of an endorsment. You said thats not the case and so be it. However, Im not selling anything nor have I on this sight. BFF or BOF. Panties ? Ill tell you what. You run upstairs to your room and put your uniform on and pop in your baseball video while I untie my panties. There are reasons MLB teams structure their throwing routines.They have spent money consulting with trainers and doctors and have designed their own program. They have spent millions of dollars on these arms and want to protect their investments ,so believe me they know.

MLBVet:

I don't doubt that some know quite well what they are doing. But I also know that some do not...or certainly their judgment is suspect. Recent examples such as giving $126M to a number 5 pitcher (if that), $36M to a guy who was proven not to be able to hit, $50M to a great back up outfielder, $55M to a guy who is in rehab for 3 years, etc, etc.

As you well know there is a certain "good old boy network" approach to a lot of things in professional baseball. Sometimes things are done because "that is they way they have always been done". So just because a team does something does not make it right. Bill James, Billy Beane, Alan Jaeger and others have proven this to be false, time and time again.

So I don’t blindly think that because so and so team trains a certain way makes it right, and just because just because you pitched in the MLB does not mean you know how to effectively teach pitching, or for that matter know anything about taking care of an arm. Maybe you do and maybe you don't. We will read and develop an opinion of your capabilities over time. I will say this; you will be doing quite well for yourself if you can do for others what Alan Jaeger has done for both professional and amateur baseball players. He has challenged the 120’ limit placed on pitchers by many in the MLB and there seems to be a trend towards utilizing his approach by many teams.

Anecdotally my son has worked with some MLB vets that really know what they are doing as well as others who make me wonder. Frankly some of the best coaches I have found never pitched beyond College. (which may make for another interesting thread)

I have officially come down the stairs now….have nice week-end!

MLBV I agree. The long toss andall the other stuff is part of the puzzle. I have no problem with people packaging it up and selling to thye guppes of this world.
You stold my guppies reference ! I asume you mean the fish that skim the top of a fish bowl waiting with their mouths going for tid bits of canned food.

Sorry Bobblehead I had to.Bof you are correct when you say that some players with exstensive MLB careers do not make the best coaches. I have had hall of famers as coaches and they had great ideas but could not relate them to their players. I feel a good coach is someone who can relay knowledge and have their players understand the concept.Great coaches do this as well as come up with new ways to improve skills.As to the good old boy network you speak of there is little room for that not to say that it does not take place in some org. but ownership wants to make money and winnig solves everything so that leaves no room for the buddy system. A coach who never went past college may be able to relate to his pitchers but the gap between he and the Major leagues is vast. Look up MLB pitching coaches and see their credentials.Wally joyner resigned because the Padres have their own hitting philosophy and Joyner had another .He was a vital part of their early 90s success but as you see no good old boy here.

And my panties are knot free ....you have a nice one as well

My son's Chyropractor was a Rangers coach. He wrote the Pitchers Edge Series with House and Ryan. He has always told us not to emulate Pro pitchers. He said that there were several top ML pitchers that had very poor mechanics.
He is a high elbows guy. Unfortunately he no longer is involved with BB. He moved on to NASCAR. Claims he still loves BB but the money is not as good.
He used to get the top guys who would fly here just to get him to work on them.
I agree with the comment about top players not being always the best teachers of the game. I have always like the old timers who understand all aspects of the game.
My big complain about coaching is that very few recognize bad mechanics. Even fewer instruct players as bad mechanics take hold. Bad mechanics soon show up in stats.
I some times wonder how pitcher evr pitched without these well packaged programs.