Jay Bergman-UCF- Suspended

It will all be cool - as long as you dont wrap your hands around my throat.

If you do - we got a "dust up" on tap - win or lose - doesnt make a difference.

You shouldnt be putting your hands on anyone.
Ever.

If you do - dont whine about the consequences - whatever they may be.

Bee

For the record, my late father was in the Pacific at age 17, too. He still was his father's kid. I was my father's kid, even after five of my own. My kids will always be my kids, whether they are 6 of 66. I'm sorry you take offense to the word. Since I meant none, the loss is yours.

Look, the bottom line is that, as a parent, I wouldn't want to rush to judgment. My oldest has been through a lot the last two years in college. It is his job to take care of business. But it is my job to help in any reasonable way I can.

Sometimes that means I do nothing. Sometimes that means I get very involved.

For example, and the moderators might use this as a means of starting another thread, look at the Duke lacrosse case. Your kid called you shortly after and told you about it, but he wasn't involved (and you believe him). Yet, he is being villified on campus, at home and nationally.

I realize this is two very different situations. But in some ways, not so different.

So, parents, do you get involved or not?

quote:

The loss of integrity, back bone and an understanding of right and wrong have brought us to this point.

Coachric

Hit the nail on the head. Kids will do what you let them get away with.

quote:

This young man is 18, and I'm sure equally strong as a 67 yr old man. He should have made the decision to defend himself, but how could he.
All his life he's been taught to settle his disputes without confrontation, until one day he can't take it anymore and he shoots someone (generally speaking).
Young kids today don't know how to go behind the barn and settle their differences, and its a great loss to our society.

Give me a break. The kid didn't get in a scuffle with a fellow teammate or a classmate...he was assaulted by a 67 year old employee of the University of Central Florida, in the dugout, during a game. An employee that's been there for 24 or so years, and has the field he assaulted the kid at named after him. An employee that can help make or break the rest of the kid's amateur career.

What in the %#@* did you expect the kid to do, put the Head Coach, who's old enough to be his grandfather, in a headlock?

Coach Bergman may be a heck of a nice guy, he may be a good coach, he may have done a lot in his career....blah, blah, blah...you're missing the point.

He's a University employee...he assaulted a student...cut and dry.

There's a few reasons he still has his job...1)he's a College baseball coach at UCF...most of the US doesn't care about college baseball except during Omaha..that's why poker, spelling bees, and Stephan Smith get air time on ESPN, and baseball rarely does. 2)He's at UCF...probably 90% of the population doesn't have a clue what town UCF is located in, much less who Jay Bergman is. The Lacrosse coach at Duke was fired because of the bad publicity, even though it appears the team is innocent...this guy gets a 1 game suspension, basically because they're out of the limelight.

Has anyone answered the question

What caused the outburst from the coach?

Did the player say something?

Did the player thorw something inn the coaches direction?

For a coach of Bergmans reputation and stature someting had to trigger his actions!!!


2 seamer -- the Duke coach resigned--he was not fired--talk about me not doing research ___LMAO

Been watching this thread, didn't want to comment due to the fact that this coach is highly respected and many players in our state want to go play for him.

However, in reading the responses I ask this.
If your HS son came home and told you that his coach put his hands around his neck, for whatever reason, what would you have done?

You better believe each and everyone of you would be on the telephone that minute to the principal or to the board of education, without a second thought.
This incident is sad for both player and coach, however, he is the adult, the one employed by an academic institution, and no matter what was said by the player, what was done, should have been dealt with by way of bench time, suspension or walking papers.
I don't see value in continuing the discussion.

TPM

again the question is not answered--what precipitated this explosion?

TPM ...

Agree with you 100% that it doesn't matter what was done or said to precipitate the outburst ... it is an unacceptable response by any person in a position of authority.

When our son visited UCR the first time, the head coach gave him a packet of information about his program, much of which concerned acceptable standards of behavior, work ethic etc. One of the pages that I remember the most was the one on field and dug-out decorum. The coach's expectation ... for the coaching staff as well as the players ... was that no participant should do anything at the field that would (1) embarass himself; (2) embarass his teammates/coaches/program; (3) embarass his opponents or the umpires; (4) show disrespect for the game of baseball. He expected nothing more of his players than he did of himself. Not that he didn't demonstrate anger at times towards his players durng practice or in the baseball office ... but he would not bring embarassment to himself or his team by showing it at the field.

As far as I am concerned (and it seems like many others agree here), the coach should not have touched the player in anger no matter what the player may have done. From what everybody says, this seems to be an isolated incident but nonetheless it was unacceptable. I don't understand why anyone would think that the player's behavior would justify such an outburst ... after all, it is possible that the coach misheard or misinterpreted something said/done by the player. We have all experienced that in our own lives, and that is reason enough to keep our anger in check during the heat of the moment ... short of protecting ourselves from assault.

JMHO

I'm Quoteing Myself:

(Coach is old School, Nothing Wrong with That.
Player is New School, Nothing Wrong with That.

It's all about respect.
Give respect.
Receive Respect.

I Imagine that this Coach and this Player, May become very good friend's in the Future.
Time will Tell. the EH)

I've been provoked into acting Illrantionally before and it did
not take much to light the fuse.

Was I Wrong? At the time I didn't think so.

But I WAS!!

People/Coaches, Should be able to Apoligize, and move forward.

It Happen's.
It's REAL Life. the EH

quote:

2 seamer -- the Duke coach resigned--he was not fired--talk about me not doing research ___LMAO

TRhit

The University President was asked point blank if the coach was fired or resigned. His answer confirmed that the coach was going to be fired and he was allowed to resign. You can call it what you want, the season was cancelled and the coach was sent packing. When you're going to be fired and you resign first...you're still fired. The word "resigned" just sounds better on a resume'. Do your research.

quote:

Has anyone answered the question

What caused the outburst from the coach?

Did the player say something?

Did the player thorw something inn the coaches direction?

For a coach of Bergmans reputation and stature someting had to trigger his actions!!!

quote:

again the question is not answered--what precipitated this explosion?

It doesn't matter what the boy did. The coach's "stature and reputation" doesn't factor in. None of it matters. What matters is that a University employee assaulted a student of that University. It's no different than if a Chemistry Professor choked a student...assault is assault.

By the way, TR, I've asked you a couple times, so I'll try again...what would your stance be if a parent had choked the coach?

TR,
To answer your question I do not know, and no one knows and probably will never know. I do not take defense of player or coach as I do not know the circumstances.
I think FBM said it best, regardless of what transpired, who antagonized who, the coach, being the educator and adult is totally responsible for the outcome. And again, if it had happened in HS school, that teacher/coach would have been suspended asap until investigation. You can't have a different set of rules as you go up the ladder, placing ones hands on another person is WRONG, grade school, hs, college, etc.
All I know if it were my son and he showed disrespect or harm in any way to the coach, I would expect that his behavior be dealt with off the field, through the AD, with a phone call, suspended, asked to leave, but NEVER would accept anyoen placing his hands on him.

We send our boys off to play a boy's game and expect them to act like responsible adults and the adult leading them to be the one to set good examples.

2seamer

I answered you previously !!!--- the parent has no right to be on the field--- thus your question has no bearing in this discussion---what happened in the dugout between coach and player stays there and I will bet you dollars to doughnuts the p[layer did something to ignite the explosion

By the 2seamer--know where you are coming from when you attempt to call me out--I wouldnt want you to make a fool of yourself

I have to agree with one thing TR says, at most places, what goes on in the dugout should usually stay there. It's sort of an unwritten rule, but unfortunetly someone saw it and didn't like it.
No matter what player did, not an excuse for anyone employed by an instituion of higher learning to react.
We will never know,a shame, this hurts the team, takes away player/coach trust and is not good for recruiting or team moral.

JMO.

quote:

2seamer

I answered you previously !!!--- the parent has no right to be on the field--- thus your question has no bearing in this discussion---what happened in the dugout between coach and player stays there and I will bet you dollars to doughnuts the p[layer did something to ignite the explosion

By the 2seamer--know where you are coming from when you attempt to call me out--I wouldnt want you to make a fool of yourself

TRhit

Ok, lets try this again...for the fourth time. I never mentioned anything about a parent being on the field..I asked you what your reaction would be if the boy's father assaulted the coach...so quit beating around the bush and answer the question....

The boy may very well have said or did something to ignite the coach's temper...that's no excuse for assaulting a kid that's paying tuition, fees, and books to attend the University that employs you.

And that's provided the kid even did anything to provoke it...worst case scenario, he didn't do a thing, he was mad at himself for a shaky pitching performance, and the coach just lost it. Since we don't know what provoked it, it's a moot point..but any way you look at it, the coach was wrong.

quote:

By the 2seamer--know where you are coming from when you attempt to call me out--I wouldnt want you to make a fool of yourself

TRhit

Last time I looked, you're the one mocking the boy's family, mocking the kid, and defending a University employee that assaulted a University student...along with some of your other peculiar stances on things, I don't think I'm the one that has to worry about making a fool of themselves...

TR, you are way off base. First, your response about the press calling MOMMY, the tone is very sexist.

The reporter was doing his job. He was looking for a quote, and didn't get one.

The coach should be suspended or fired. YOU DO NOT LAY HANDS ON A PLAYER. Period. PERIOD.

Even if the kid spit in the coaches face, it does not matter, YOU DO NOT LAY YOUR HANDS ON A STUDENT.

You can continue to support this coaches stupid decisions, but it just makes you look like a neanderthal.

Yeah, times have changed. You aren't allowed to throw the N word around. Blacks actually get to play in the major leagues or be the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff or the Secretary of State. Women can be the Secretary of State, or the Prime Minister of England or India. You are not allowed to beat your child without recourse. You can't beat up your wife and just tell the cop that she got out of line. You can't drive drunk.

AND YOU CAN'T LAY YOUR HANDS ON A STUDENT.

All of which I think are good things. All of you that think what the coach did was OK need to get over your good ole days syndrome

Kellerdad/2seamer.

The Coach was Suspended, He did Apologize.
And the Matter is Closed.

The Coach learned a Lesson.

Also what ever that Player did to Provoke a response like that from a Coach.
Also learned a lesson.

This is REAL LIFE, Right, Wrong are Indifferent.

Coach is in Charge. Period.

Keep your mouth shut, Take What the Coach say's and live with IT.

I'm not condoning what the Coach did.
I'm also not Condoning what the Player did to Provoke it either.

Just He who is among US, Who is Perfect Cast the first Stone.

That's Right, Nobody is.

People make Mistake's.
You move Forward and Forgive. the EH

The coach is in charge of his baseball team. That does not include putting his hands on a student.

If I did what he did to one of my employees, I'd be sued from here to eternity. Even if the employee spit in my face. Even if he called me names or was insubordinate. Even if the employee put his hands on me first. This is 2006, not 1925.

And as far as the matter being closed, it may be to you, but it isn't to me. As long as there are people that defend this type of behavior, this matter will never be closed.

Trust me Kellerdad, I'm not defending the Coach.
I just don't believe in Throwing someone's Career away
for a moment of failure to communicate.

It's Real Life.
Thing's don't alway's go right.
People, All People make Mistake's.

I believe that to many good people/employee's, are put out on the street for a moment of Stupidity.
Yes that's the price they pay in today's society.
And I believe that's just as cruel as the problem's they had in 1925. JMHO the EH

I dont really know much about this but I find everyones comments - well - interesting. Ill make three comments myself:

1 - Thirty some-odd years ago it was perfectly acceptable for my baseball coach to kick some tail - get physical. We respected a coach who did that - then.

2 - Not in MY Italian-American Indian household - and my ancestors are known for somewhat volatile tempers....Matter of fact, the mother figure was a little loose with the belt - or shovel, or whatever was close. I didnt particularly appreciate that.

3 - If a coach put his hands around the neck of my player they would both be suspended. I would imagine one would be in the hospital and the other in jail. Not saying I approve of this method, but it is a real possibility. While I never had to take a belt to my kids a**, and he has never put himself in a position to be choked by a coach, I would expect him to defend himself.

quote:

I just don't believe in Throwing someone's Career away
for a moment of failure to communicate.

I agree that all people make mistakes...and I agree that it's harsh to lose a job over a mistake...however, a University employee assaulting a University student can in no way be construed as, "a moment of failure to communicate".

If the student had choked the coach, he would have been expelled immediately. If the student's father had assaulted the coach, some would be up in arms over how nutty parents are today. Instead, a reporter called the family home, the mother did the right thing, refused comment, and wound up ridiculed by some on this board. The coach gets support by a few here, because of his "reputation and stature".

Nonsense. I agree, things have changed in this country, but it's a sad day when a person can assault someone and have it defended as a "moment of failure to communicate".

Here's a novel idea...go to work today, and choke the first person you fail to communicate with...then use the "Bergman Defense" to explain it...see how far that gets you.

The player may have insulted the coach's mother...he may have suggested the coach do something that's anatomically impossible..or worse yet, the player may not have done anything at all...coach may have just snapped...we don't know. The point is...it doesn't matter...assault is not the answer.

quote:

Here's a novel idea...go to work today, and choke the first person you fail to communicate with...then use the "Bergman Defense" to explain it...see how far that gets you.

quote:

At least to the door......

Glad to see all the "experts" KNOW I am off base, at least in their minds !!!!

Again I ask this--does anyone truly know what precitpated the event in the dugout ?

quote:

Glad to see all the "experts" KNOW I am off base, at least in their minds !!!!

Again I ask this--does anyone truly know what precitpated the event in the dugout ?

TRhit

The answer, again...no, and it doesn't matter.

2 SEAMER

WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT DOESNT MATTER ???

What if the player threw something at the coach say like a baseball or a glove?--

The coach agrees with the players version of the events. All anyone knows is the coach touched the player. If the player shared blame, wouldn't the player share the punishment with the coach? There is no indication he has been punished.

Trashing the victim in this case a 19 year old freshman, with ignorant speculation, is disgusting, and nearly subhuman.

UCF has had several player suspensions this year; the idea that they would now overlook an infraction on the part of this player is reaching, to say the very least.

It would appear the situation has been handled to the satisfaction of the parties involved.

So far in this thread, TR, you are willing to promote corporal punishment, vilify "Mommies" involvement in baseball, and demand that the details of the incident (to use a neutral word) come out of the dugout and be made known in order to determine, apparently, if assault was somehow the appropriate response.

Give it up. You are, as is said, way off base.

2seamer Quote:
[The player may have insulted the coach's mother...he may have suggested the coach do something that's anatomically impossible..or worse yet, the player may not have done anything at all...coach may have just snapped...WE DON'T KNOW. The point is...it doesn't matter...assault is not the answer.]

Key Word's: "WE DON'T KNOW"

Nobody's Perfect,
and this is not a Perfect World.
Thing's Happen in the Heat of the Moment.
And the Coach Apologized.
The Player and his Family Accepted that Apology.

2Seamer, You throw the Assault word around like the Coach had him in a Choke Hold and wouldn't let him go.

It probably was closer to a Grab and Hold type, Don't you ever Talk to me like that move.
Quik and over with.

It wasn't RIGHT.
But REAL Life.

I'm sure the Coach will think twice before he does it again.

And I bet that Player Won't run his mouth, and will think twice before he does also. the EH

assault 1) v. the threat or attempt to strike another, whether successful or not, provided the target is aware of the danger. The assaulter must be reasonably capable of carrying through the attack. In some states if the assault is with a deadly weapon (such as sniping with a rifle), the intended victim does not need to know of the peril. Other state laws distinguish between different degrees (first or second) of assault depending on whether there is actual hitting, injury or just a threat. "Aggravated assault" is an attack connected with the commission of another crime, such as beating a clerk during a robbery. 2) n. the act of committing an assault, as in "there was an assault down on Third Avenue." Assault is both a criminal wrong, for which one may be charged and tried, and civil wrong for which the target may sue for damages due to the assault, including for mental distress.

quote:

Posted April 24, 2006 10:27 AM
2 SEAMER

WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT DOESNT MATTER ???

What if the player threw something at the coach say like a baseball or a glove?--

TRhit

There's no evidence that the player even did anything. No evidence he threw a ball or glove at the coach...but for arguments sake, lets say he did. The right way to handle it? The coach should have told him to turn in his equipment...clean out his locker...he was off of the team...no release would be given...no recommendation would be given for other schools...and anyone on the team that wanted to join him was more than welcome. Bye-Bye..

That's how you handle it. And that's providing the kid provoked it...it's still possible he didn't do anything but have a bad outing, and the coach snapped. Even if he said something to hurt the coach's "widdle feelings", you don't handle it by choking them.

Have you considered anger management classes?

ORLANDO

you had better either change your glasses or the meds--- I have done neother condone corporal punishment nor villify MOMMIES---

01-- there has to be a reason Coach Bergman "snapped"--is it not possible he was defending himself ?-- nobody knows what preciptiated the incident

02-- as for MOMMMIES all I wanted to know is why the press called her?

2 SEAMER

Anger Management ?--- WHY???? Because you make a judgement ???? You must be kidding

Ask anyone who knows me about whether or not I need it---perhaps you might be the one in need of assistance

D A M N !!! you dont even know me and you suggest that I need anger management !!!

You make me laugh sir---


Incidently who said the kid was choked--I was under the impression that he had the kid ny the neck and that can mean many things not necessarily choking-- are you sure of your facts ???

Orlando

quote:

assault 1) v. the threat or attempt to strike another, whether successful or not, provided the target is aware of the danger.

Obviously, The Player was NOT aware of the Danger.
If in Fact he did Provoke the Coach.

If Coach Grabbed Player Because said Player Threw a Bad Game, and Player did Nothing to Provoke Attack.
Then Coach should Be Fired. Period. the EH

quote:

Assault
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For other uses, see Assault (disambiguation).
Assault is a crime of violence against another person. In some jurisdictions, assault is used to refer to the actual violence, while in other jurisdictions (e.g. some in the United States, England and Wales), assault refers only to the threat of violence, while the actual violence is battery. Simple assaults do not involve deadly weapons; aggravated assaults often do.

Assault is often defined to include not only violence, but any physical contact with another person without their consent. When assault is defined like this, exceptions are provided to cover such things as normal social behavior (for example, patting someone on the back).

quote:

2Seamer, You throw the Assault word around like the Coach had him in a Choke Hold and wouldn't let him go.

It probably was closer to a Grab and Hold type, Don't you ever Talk to me like that move.
Quik and over with.

There's no requirement that you have to choke someone unconscious to qualify as an assault. It still shouldn't have happened.

EH


period my ***---if the kid threw something at the coach that is assault which means the assaulted has the right to defend himself

I am still waiting for the facts here=== again all the lynch mob people are out in force--perhaps this is why we convict so many innocent people in our courts

quote:

Incidently who said the kid was choked--I was under the impression that he had the kid ny the neck and that can mean many things not necessarily choking-- are you sure of your facts ???

Put both hands around your throat and squeeze for a while...then report back.

2Seamer,
Just like the Coach, The Player Should Not be Thrown Away Because of a Moment of Stupidity.

Suspend Him, Make him Run till the Cow's come Home.
Just don't end a other wise good player's or Coaches Career,
For a Moment of UnManaged Anger management. the EH

TR:

this is what I said about being fired.

If Coach Grabbed Player Because said Player Threw a Bad Game, and Player did Nothing to Provoke Attack.
Then Coach should Be Fired. Period. the EH

2Seamer;

quote:

Assault is often defined to include not only violence, but any physical contact with another person without their consent.

If and When the Said Player Opened his Big Mouth,
He CONSENTED to being ASSUALTED.

THAT'S REAL LIFE..

still no answer to the question regarding what happened to set it off

quote:

still no answer to the question regarding what happened to set it off

Here is the contact info. Let us know what he says.

Baseball (fax 407-823-4296)
Head Coach Jay Bergman (407)823-0140 jbergman@mail.ucf.edu