Does anyone have any info on the forfeit of the South Florida Bandits/ABD Bulldogs game? SF has alot of New Jersey kids on the roster so it is getting alot of play on a local forum. Thanks.
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It was reported on the pgcrosschecker blog that South Florida had a kid in the game that had played on another team during the tournament. This was pointed out by ABD and caused an immediate forfeit.
There was a kid that played on another PG team during pool play... playing on the field for So. Fl.
They gave him a false name and added him to their roster. Some one recongnized the player and told ABD coach.... of the attempted addition. At which time he protested the game and the umps after conferring with all PG officials, immediately declared the game forfieted...
They gave him a false name and added him to their roster. Some one recongnized the player and told ABD coach.... of the attempted addition. At which time he protested the game and the umps after conferring with all PG officials, immediately declared the game forfieted...
I can't even fathom how the coach could think of such a thing, unbelievable. How many other people associated with team were aware? other players, parents?
I hope PG bans the idiot coach, the coaches staff and sponsers for an appropriate period of time and makes it permanent unless they prove that the kids/parents get all their money back including the tourney fee. And then permanently bans them anyway.
I agree with you jd. I would go even further and ban the player as well. At this age, they know better. The player should not get a free pass either. Until we start holding people accountable for their actions, lessons will not be learned.
Did they at least try to disquise the player? Shave his head? Funny glasses? Fake scars? Funny teeth? It is Halloween, they could have found something to try to pull it off. Maybe wear a wig? 
quote:Originally posted by Doughnutman:
Did they at least try to disquise the player? Shave his head? Funny glasses? Fake scars? Funny teeth?
I am sorry but I don't know which is sadder, they team/player trying to cheat the event by switching the teams or the team ratting out the other team for cheating.
The event is about playing at your best, there are teams who bring in players who have played together all year, there are teams who bring players in to supplement what they have to survive a big tournament, and there are teams who put together teams to go to an event.
This event does not require birth certificates, does not examine rosters for eligible players, does not check names of players, etc, it is based on come play with the best and see how you do on a honesty system.
For a team to try to cheat system and switch players that is bad, but did the tournament check the identity of the both rosters because I can assure you that both teams have done that in the past and will do it in the future.
It is not like some events where when you check in, you are required to present picture proof of ID, birth certificates, and have a locked in roster for the event.
We played in an event JO’s 16U (almost 10 day tournament) and we were 15U where they did check rosters very closely and we were going through several rounds of pool play over several days, we get through pool play and we are seated in the top 10 of something like 70+ teams. They take the top 32 teams and go into elimination and all of the sudden we are playing a very low seed and the team happen to be a local team from AZ and they bring in a guy on the mound who no one knew, even families on the other team, they say he had not played in any of the previous several rounds of pool play, throwing low 90’s at 16U. We had no clue who he was, what his age was, and even if he was rostered and if so was he the actual person. Needless to say we lost but we did not go running to the tournament director asking for his ID, oh by the way they lost badly the next game.
Bottom line, it is too bad that some think that winning is the most important aspect of these tournaments and have to cheat to get a piece of plastic and wood (all be it very nice and BIG and I am sure a PG ring will be going with it for all those on the winning team).
The event is about playing at your best, there are teams who bring in players who have played together all year, there are teams who bring players in to supplement what they have to survive a big tournament, and there are teams who put together teams to go to an event.
This event does not require birth certificates, does not examine rosters for eligible players, does not check names of players, etc, it is based on come play with the best and see how you do on a honesty system.
For a team to try to cheat system and switch players that is bad, but did the tournament check the identity of the both rosters because I can assure you that both teams have done that in the past and will do it in the future.
It is not like some events where when you check in, you are required to present picture proof of ID, birth certificates, and have a locked in roster for the event.
We played in an event JO’s 16U (almost 10 day tournament) and we were 15U where they did check rosters very closely and we were going through several rounds of pool play over several days, we get through pool play and we are seated in the top 10 of something like 70+ teams. They take the top 32 teams and go into elimination and all of the sudden we are playing a very low seed and the team happen to be a local team from AZ and they bring in a guy on the mound who no one knew, even families on the other team, they say he had not played in any of the previous several rounds of pool play, throwing low 90’s at 16U. We had no clue who he was, what his age was, and even if he was rostered and if so was he the actual person. Needless to say we lost but we did not go running to the tournament director asking for his ID, oh by the way they lost badly the next game.
Bottom line, it is too bad that some think that winning is the most important aspect of these tournaments and have to cheat to get a piece of plastic and wood (all be it very nice and BIG and I am sure a PG ring will be going with it for all those on the winning team).
The other team should rat out the cheating team. What should they do, let it go and feel noble?
Doesn't surprise me that they don't check rosters. The event is a sgowcase under a tournament format. What benefit would the kid get other than playing an extra game or two. The whole point is to generate interest in individual players. What would he do if a scout or college was interested in him. Pretty hard to come clean.
I agree with HR04 teams add guys to their roster in Connie Mack and most tournaments. I have always hated that practice.
I remember my son playing in a 17U tournament. We played against 19U teams because there were very few 17U teams. The GM of our club spotted a LHP going to the mound and he recognized him. He was a 19yo pitcher who played for Connor State. We didn't complain we whipped their buts 2-0.
I agree with HR04 teams add guys to their roster in Connie Mack and most tournaments. I have always hated that practice.
I remember my son playing in a 17U tournament. We played against 19U teams because there were very few 17U teams. The GM of our club spotted a LHP going to the mound and he recognized him. He was a 19yo pitcher who played for Connor State. We didn't complain we whipped their buts 2-0.
quote:Originally posted by Homerun04:
I am sorry but I don't know which is sadder, they team/player trying to cheat the event by switching the teams or the team ratting out the other team for cheating.
Ratting? I don't think it's sad at all. It seems like the Florida team was intentionally cheating to win a youth baseball game. Garbage! Bad lesson to teach your players, bad way to walk through life.
The ABD coach did the right thing. Why should he allow cheating that could end the experience for his players. He owes it to his kids who worked hard to get there to make sure they aren't cheated.
The Florida guys were good enough to get to that point. Why take away playing time from a kid who was there the whole time and give it to a kid with a false identity? If they had gotten away with it, what lesson would those players have learned had they won the tournament? Not one I would want my kid to learn.
I know if I dropped big money to have my kid looked at by the quality of scouts present..I'd be real ticked to have some schmuck messing with the voracity of the tourney. PG also has a rep to uphold..This tourney is premier (I'd say the most prestigious this time of year in the world)..Like Danny Almonte..and Little League, it (PG) should take this to the hilt..more than just one game is effected. The scouts will see the talent no matter..but how will PG keep it's house..this is a real, big money, hopes and dreams tourney..it demands immediate certain response.
I can see your point about players taking regular team members spots at a tourney but it goes on at every tornament. I know 2 teams that go to Jupiter and only recognize half the players. Many don't want to go so they pick up guys that do. Connie Mack and other venues allow 2 or 3 pick ups. To me that ruins the team's accomplishments at their tourney's.
We as usual do not know the facts. It does appear to be an unusually dumb thing to do especially if the fake name is true. I am not sure why anyone would do that.
We as usual do not know the facts. It does appear to be an unusually dumb thing to do especially if the fake name is true. I am not sure why anyone would do that.
Thank God the Florida team is not running the elections. 
I know the coach in question. He is a piece of work and it doesn't surprise me at all. I would never let my kid play for the guy. He has no scruples. At one time he came on this site anonymously just to trash players he didn't like. With all due respect. He should be banned from coaching. jmo
The rules are you can't add anyone after the first game. It is too bad that they feel that they need to cheat to win a game and I also agree that it is cheating the/those players who he took their playing time from and their chance to be be seen by a school or scout.
Ya wonder how he got in that position in the first place...
Bobble I understand the pick up deal..heck my kid was a pick-up by the Knoxville Yard last year, but to weasel and lie, when folks are layin down the major cash investment to actually participate in the tourney is just unforgivable. I mean winning it is a big deal but just to participate and get the looks is as important to the individual kid..those who immediately forfitted got hosed..imagine if your kid had come down from Canuck land only to be in the bullpen when the plug was pulled
This would be the riot act and you'd be reading it to the weasel coach 
but actually after having read your posts for some time I would suspect it would look a bit more like this...
Bobble I understand the pick up deal..heck my kid was a pick-up by the Knoxville Yard last year, but to weasel and lie, when folks are layin down the major cash investment to actually participate in the tourney is just unforgivable. I mean winning it is a big deal but just to participate and get the looks is as important to the individual kid..those who immediately forfitted got hosed..imagine if your kid had come down from Canuck land only to be in the bullpen when the plug was pulled
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
I can see your point about players taking regular team members spots at a tourney but it goes on at every tornament. I know 2 teams that go to Jupiter and only recognize half the players. Many don't want to go so they pick up guys that do. Connie Mack and other venues allow 2 or 3 pick ups. To me that ruins the team's accomplishments at their tourney's.
We as usual do not know the facts. It does appear to be an unusually dumb thing to do especially if the fake name is true. I am not sure why anyone would do that.
Bobble, IMO there is nothing wrong from picking up players for a tournament, even putting a team together just for the tournament (I think all the "PG" teams are assembled just for the event). I have a problem when a coach has a "win-at-all-costs" attitude and doen't care who gets hurt by it.
Why not let the kids play who got him there? They were good enough to get to the semi's. They weren't out of players; they have 28 kids on the roster. One of them may have wanted to play.
Another example of how we prech to our kids to be honest and have integrity and then the adults around them have none. Parents spend so much time worrying about what showcases to send their kids to and then this team (whos parents sent a lot of money) has to forfeit becasue the coach cheated. One thing I did notice in the last year or two at a lot of local tourneys is they ask for all the birth cert. but then director necver checks, I know this is not the case for Jupiter.
Just a shame for all the people who work hard to have a nice event like this for the kids, its a freaking showcase and to some adult its all about winning at the cost of cheating. There should be threads devoted to this question.If the kids see the parents lie and cheat then how can we tell them its wrong? they are seeing their role models exhibiting the behaviors. Just sad on a moral level. as well as hard working parents losing out becasue the coach does this and the rest of kids pay for it.
Just a shame for all the people who work hard to have a nice event like this for the kids, its a freaking showcase and to some adult its all about winning at the cost of cheating. There should be threads devoted to this question.If the kids see the parents lie and cheat then how can we tell them its wrong? they are seeing their role models exhibiting the behaviors. Just sad on a moral level. as well as hard working parents losing out becasue the coach does this and the rest of kids pay for it.
quote:I am sorry but I don't know which is sadder, they team/player trying to cheat the event by switching the teams or the team ratting out the other team for cheating.
quote:For a team to try to cheat system and switch players that is bad, but did the tournament check the identity of the both rosters because I can assure you that both teams have done that in the past and will do it in the future.
With due respect Homerun04, are these two statements contradicting each other? I may have your intent wrong, but it appears that you're "ratting out" the ABD coach here. At any rate, the answer to me is obvious.
We've had a few discussions on this board about the ethics of ratting. As Mark B. notes correctly, there is nothing to be gained in this case from looking the other way.
Welcome to the HSBBW Mark!
I think the term ratting is somewhat misused here. Not knowing all of the details, it sounds pretty obvious as if the ABD coach challenged the eligibility of a player. Very similar to what the Americans did to the Chinese women gymnasts in the Olympics, but in the later case they did it after the fact, which makes it sound like bad sportsmanship. ABD challenged at the appropriate time.
By doing nothing and protecting the other team's dirty little secret you have just tacitly condoned that kind of behavior and implicitly taught your own players that it's OK to cheat.
PG has very few rules about the rosters. Players can actually be on several rosters, but they have to play with which ever team they play for first in the event. I really wouldn't want to wina game like that but wrong is wrong. You have to look out for the best interest in your players. That new player may have kept someone from getting in front of that one coach/scout that gets your player to the next level. Shame on the coach from the Bombers.
It was mentioned the team was the South Florida Bandits, now it's posted the Bombers.
Let's get it straight so there won't be any confusion.
I didn't read or know who it is, can someone make corrections as to which team it was to protect the other.
Thanks
Let's get it straight so there won't be any confusion.
I didn't read or know who it is, can someone make corrections as to which team it was to protect the other.
Thanks
Is this coach the rather heavy fellow with large "bags packed" under his eyes?
If so, I have coached on the opposite side of the field from him, and "piece of work" is an understatement.
If so, I have coached on the opposite side of the field from him, and "piece of work" is an understatement.
quote:Originally posted by spizzlepop:quote:I am sorry but I don't know which is sadder, they team/player trying to cheat the event by switching the teams or the team ratting out the other team for cheating.
quote:For a team to try to cheat system and switch players that is bad, but did the tournament check the identity of the both rosters because I can assure you that both teams have done that in the past and will do it in the future.
With due respect Homerun04, are these two statements contradicting each other? I may have your intent wrong, but it appears that you're "ratting out" the ABD coach here. At any rate, the answer to me is obvious.
Am I, this is not the Olympics where you have checked everything including what is in your blood. He put the tournament in a precarious position of having to challenge the opposing team with information that may have been brought to him from “some source” or did he just know all their players, please, shame on the cheating coach, but just beat him on the field.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
It was mentioned the team was the South Florida Bandits, now it's posted the Bombers.
Let's get it straight so there won't be any confusion.
I didn't read or know who it is, can someone make corrections as to which team it was to protect the other.
Thanks
South Florida Bandits:
WWBA Schedules Scores
I agree with evryone but in the end who got punished ?
Ok I know who it is.
I have had some parents email me over the years, asking if it was worth paying him a fee to help get their son a scholarship.
I noticed that PG had a combine for a consolation game, so do the rules allow for players to play on other teams (but not in playoffs?) Regardless, the coach using a false name is disturbing.
I have had some parents email me over the years, asking if it was worth paying him a fee to help get their son a scholarship.
I noticed that PG had a combine for a consolation game, so do the rules allow for players to play on other teams (but not in playoffs?) Regardless, the coach using a false name is disturbing.
PG rules are very clear. First game played in is rostered game. What does beat them on the field have to do with ratting?
Cheating is cheating when using ineligible players.
There is not a grey area here. Their coach should be kicked out of coaching period. The player should be banned from PG( he is not innocent either). It would be one thing if honest mistake, but giving a jersey and using fake name. Wrong is wrong!
Cheating is cheating when using ineligible players.
There is not a grey area here. Their coach should be kicked out of coaching period. The player should be banned from PG( he is not innocent either). It would be one thing if honest mistake, but giving a jersey and using fake name. Wrong is wrong!
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
I agree with evryone but in the end who got punished ?
Both teams were playing for a championship berth. Seems to me it was more for winning than exposure.
Ok so what was actually done? The player was added or just assumed another players name. If that is the case, everyone knew what was going on, players, parents, unless they didn't know what teh coach tried to pull off.
Who gets hurt, everyone does in the end, bad choice coach.
quote:I agree with evryone but in the end who got punished ?
You're right..no winners..kids punished for a moron..buncha crud..sorry weasel guy. No life when you got no integrity.
TPM and others
Playoffs are different from the consolation games---the consolation games are to give kids another game to be seen and the game is for just that purpose
The playoffs are for "going for the gold" so to speak
And rules are rules !1!
Playoffs are different from the consolation games---the consolation games are to give kids another game to be seen and the game is for just that purpose
The playoffs are for "going for the gold" so to speak
And rules are rules !1!
The problem with forcing the forfeit, is that the players on both teams lose their chance to play in front of scouts.
The fairest for the kids would be to wait until the last inning, and then question it. The problem is if you were losing, then it looks like you are looking for an excuse.
The fairest for the kids would be to wait until the last inning, and then question it. The problem is if you were losing, then it looks like you are looking for an excuse.
Blprk that is my point. Depending on the state of the game, I would most likely remove the coach and the player but let the game continue.
I would ban the coach and possibly the player. Some kids are easily pushed into things they don't understand or at least are esily coersed into.
I would ban the coach and possibly the player. Some kids are easily pushed into things they don't understand or at least are esily coersed into.
I was not involved with past thread about ratting. but come on if you get to a winning section in a tourney and your guys worked hard and you know the other team is cheating you wouldnt say something?I would be prety upset about it if I were a coach . the rules are clear.
The Bandits coaches and team should be banded from PG events, it does not matter that he has been bringing teams to their events since 2003.
The fact that almost half of his team is from out of state and the players who have traveled great distance to play in a premier event get bounced due to some coach cheating makes it even worst.
The fact that almost half of his team is from out of state and the players who have traveled great distance to play in a premier event get bounced due to some coach cheating makes it even worst.
The game score was 5-0 ABD, I am assuming the game was in play when noticed.
This occured on Monday for playoffs, most of the kids got their exposure days beforehand.
I find it interesting a South Florida team had many out of state, maybe because no one around here will play for this coach.
This occured on Monday for playoffs, most of the kids got their exposure days beforehand.
I find it interesting a South Florida team had many out of state, maybe because no one around here will play for this coach.
I wondered if the 5-0 was a forfeit score.
What is "ratting" anyway? Please define it for me.
If someone or some team is "Cheating" and you bring it to the attention of an official, then you are a RAT?
So, the people that sit back and ignore this behavior, what are they called?
If someone or some team is "Cheating" and you bring it to the attention of an official, then you are a RAT?
So, the people that sit back and ignore this behavior, what are they called?
The 5-0 score is the forfeit score---