The LA Times did an article about Tanner Rahier who is going into his senior year. He has not played high school baseball the past couple of years.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/...201,0,7455049.column
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This just confirms what we all know. The high school season is just a warm up for Summer ball.
Nothing beats the real game, with something on the line.
quote:Originally posted by Aleebaba:
This just confirms what we all know. The high school season is just a warm up for Summer ball.
This comment is not universally true. For our younger son, the HS team and season(s) were vitally important. College coaches were regularly at his games and his HS coach was a very important factor in who recruited him and in choosing where to play.
And yes, he also played on an elite summer team.
I find this kinda sad.HS baseball was a wonderful experience for our family.It was so much fun!!!
I worry if this trend continues what happens to the players who are good HS players but wont go on??Or for kids who cant afford all this travel ball.
I worry if this trend continues what happens to the players who are good HS players but wont go on??Or for kids who cant afford all this travel ball.
I think it would be a good trend and a welcomed one. In saying that, I know it depends on the HS experience and more specifically the HS coach and his program. For the HS player who has benefited from a great HS coach and program I guess the idea of not playing HS ball is speaking in a language that they just can't understand. However there are many players that feel imprisoned by a bad coach and program. The coaches in those cases know there are no other options for a player. I think the level of HS baseball and coaching might even improve if those coaches realize that their players don't HAVE to play with them.
There is another thread going in the recruiting section called "NAIA Private Workout" where a player has the opportunity to try out for a NAIA school. However the player might forgo the opportunity because the HS coach would be upset if he missed a practice. That is just absurd! Just one example of why the idea of not having to play HS baseball in order to play in college is almost a relief to many readers of the article.
Having a warm fuzzy feeling of playing for your HS only exists if you are in a good situation. Trust me there are as many bad situations as there are good in HS. I understand a young person needing to deal with situations in life that are not favorable. However there are many situations in HS baseball that are beyond that and the player should not feel as if there are no other options.
For players who do not want to play on into college they will have more opportunity to play HS baseball. For those who cannot afford to play travel, HS baseball would be a good option. For the player who is looking to play into college, they should have the option to play on a good team, with good coaching , with great exposure and not have the feeling that they have to endure a terrible HS situation just to play in college.
There is another thread going in the recruiting section called "NAIA Private Workout" where a player has the opportunity to try out for a NAIA school. However the player might forgo the opportunity because the HS coach would be upset if he missed a practice. That is just absurd! Just one example of why the idea of not having to play HS baseball in order to play in college is almost a relief to many readers of the article.
Having a warm fuzzy feeling of playing for your HS only exists if you are in a good situation. Trust me there are as many bad situations as there are good in HS. I understand a young person needing to deal with situations in life that are not favorable. However there are many situations in HS baseball that are beyond that and the player should not feel as if there are no other options.
For players who do not want to play on into college they will have more opportunity to play HS baseball. For those who cannot afford to play travel, HS baseball would be a good option. For the player who is looking to play into college, they should have the option to play on a good team, with good coaching , with great exposure and not have the feeling that they have to endure a terrible HS situation just to play in college.
It's been a trend for some time more so
for HS golf, swimming, tennis.
I am beginning to observe HS baseball players forego Sr year of HS and enroll in local community college for classes and spring ball and seeking a higher draft position for June MLB amateur draft.
Also seeing HS pitchers in Sr year, shut down or on limited mound time, awaiting for fall college ball to begin.
for HS golf, swimming, tennis.
I am beginning to observe HS baseball players forego Sr year of HS and enroll in local community college for classes and spring ball and seeking a higher draft position for June MLB amateur draft.
Also seeing HS pitchers in Sr year, shut down or on limited mound time, awaiting for fall college ball to begin.
shortnquick...Well said and I totally agree!
I wish we could all be so lucky to have great
high school programs and coaches.
My son's summer coach is awesome. He is well respected, knows the game inside and out and my son learns something new everytime he plays with him!
I wish we could all be so lucky to have great
high school programs and coaches.
My son's summer coach is awesome. He is well respected, knows the game inside and out and my son learns something new everytime he plays with him!
OK, I think it is great that it is not necessary to play HS ball in order to go on to play college ball.
But does this warrant the criticism of HS ball on this thread?
Remember, 90+ % of HS baseball players don’t go on to play college ball. For them, HS ball is as good as it gets. For them, HS ball is the high point of competition. So, then, there are those who play summer ball with the intention of getting the necessary exposure for college scholarship opportunities. The way many of these summer teams are set up, “playing to win” and “traditional rivalries” tend to take a back seat to “what colleges are here watching” and “who can we shuffle in the 2 inning pitching rotation so that scout “A” can see player “B” before scout has to head to the field across town. While this exposure game has its place, it lacks in many aspects that are evident in a true HS rivalry game.
USC baseball coach Frank Cruz sums it up best in the very article linked by the OP - regarding summer ball for HS age kids... “It changes the whole landscape of the sport, where it's often individualized. You don't care if you win or lose. You're trying to throw 90 mph and run fast. People tend to dismiss the team game, and I don't think that's good for the game."
A varsity HS game, on the other hand, is pure sport.
But does this warrant the criticism of HS ball on this thread?
Remember, 90+ % of HS baseball players don’t go on to play college ball. For them, HS ball is as good as it gets. For them, HS ball is the high point of competition. So, then, there are those who play summer ball with the intention of getting the necessary exposure for college scholarship opportunities. The way many of these summer teams are set up, “playing to win” and “traditional rivalries” tend to take a back seat to “what colleges are here watching” and “who can we shuffle in the 2 inning pitching rotation so that scout “A” can see player “B” before scout has to head to the field across town. While this exposure game has its place, it lacks in many aspects that are evident in a true HS rivalry game.
USC baseball coach Frank Cruz sums it up best in the very article linked by the OP - regarding summer ball for HS age kids... “It changes the whole landscape of the sport, where it's often individualized. You don't care if you win or lose. You're trying to throw 90 mph and run fast. People tend to dismiss the team game, and I don't think that's good for the game."
A varsity HS game, on the other hand, is pure sport.
quote:A varsity HS game, on the other hand, is pure sport.
AMEN.
We all know that some high school coaches and situations aren't ideal and that HS baseball is not as important as it was 10 years ago to some players. But the experience of playing for a state championship with your lifelong friends is not something that can be duplicated on a travel team.
My son played for the same travel team for 5 years. On some good teams that played deep into the playoffs at Marietta a few years. He loved playing on this team and had a blast. But if you ask him what the most fun he had playing baseball during his high school years it was his junior season of school ball when the team made it to within a game of the state championship. Hands down.
Also, there are just as many bad situations in travel ball as in high school. I've heard many a parent complaining about summer ball and this team, that coach, playing time, batting order and any other thing you can think of.
IMO much of the complaining about HS or summer ball is sour grapes. If a player doesn't achieve what the parents thinks he should they complain and blame the coach/team. I'm a firm believer that if a player plays to the best of his abilities he will attain the level of play his talent deserves regardless of the coach. If you don't make varsity as a freshman or sophomore just keep on doing your thing. If your as good as you think you are the coaches will have to play you sooner or later.
Same thing with a travel team. If you don't make the team you think you should make keep on playing and eventually someone will notice.
If you never make the team you think you should, well then maybe your not as good as you think.
A little off track I know, but IMO, bashing high school baseball usually more about the player than the coach or team.
My son played for the same travel team for 5 years. On some good teams that played deep into the playoffs at Marietta a few years. He loved playing on this team and had a blast. But if you ask him what the most fun he had playing baseball during his high school years it was his junior season of school ball when the team made it to within a game of the state championship. Hands down.
Also, there are just as many bad situations in travel ball as in high school. I've heard many a parent complaining about summer ball and this team, that coach, playing time, batting order and any other thing you can think of.
IMO much of the complaining about HS or summer ball is sour grapes. If a player doesn't achieve what the parents thinks he should they complain and blame the coach/team. I'm a firm believer that if a player plays to the best of his abilities he will attain the level of play his talent deserves regardless of the coach. If you don't make varsity as a freshman or sophomore just keep on doing your thing. If your as good as you think you are the coaches will have to play you sooner or later.
Same thing with a travel team. If you don't make the team you think you should make keep on playing and eventually someone will notice.
If you never make the team you think you should, well then maybe your not as good as you think.
A little off track I know, but IMO, bashing high school baseball usually more about the player than the coach or team.
There is no doubt in my mind this trend will continue.
My concern is financial access to baseball. Some folks find it difficult to afford travel baseball or elite travel baseball because of the price of admission and recurring travel costs. The payoff for travel baseball is college exposure for those that can afford it & have the talent.
For others, the only other alternative is public high school baseball and American Legion for lower cost entry and exposure to a subset of baseball colleges & universities (typically more local). As much as high school baseball has its share of problems, it needs to continue to be relevent for the other part of the population that can't afford travel baseball but have the talent.
My concern is financial access to baseball. Some folks find it difficult to afford travel baseball or elite travel baseball because of the price of admission and recurring travel costs. The payoff for travel baseball is college exposure for those that can afford it & have the talent.
For others, the only other alternative is public high school baseball and American Legion for lower cost entry and exposure to a subset of baseball colleges & universities (typically more local). As much as high school baseball has its share of problems, it needs to continue to be relevent for the other part of the population that can't afford travel baseball but have the talent.
First, I am sorry for kids who have bad high school ball experiences and feel bad kids are put in those situations. My son's coach can be a rough guy, but he has loved his high school career and is very much looking forward to his junior year. And so are his parents.
My problem with summer ball is that there really is no "team" aspect of it, or so it seems. All that matters is if the scout gets to see your kid. In high school ball, I dont think a centerfielder cares if the pitcher strikes out the side in an inning. But in travel ball, he would be upset since he didnt get a chance to show the scouts anything. I think summer ball can breed just looking out for yourself. For example, in high school, if Jimmy gets in trouble on the mound and loads the bases, if the coach brings in my son to get out of the inning, Jimmy and his parents are rooting for my son. If the same thing happens in summer ball, with 15 scouts in attendance, I dont think Jimmy and his parents are truly rooting for my son to get out of the jam.
People on this site will chastize me for that opinion, but I have seen it before, even had a parent make a comment about the above situation.
There is a place for both high school and summer ball. At the very least, not much can take the place of throwing five days a week from the end of February to the middle of May.
My problem with summer ball is that there really is no "team" aspect of it, or so it seems. All that matters is if the scout gets to see your kid. In high school ball, I dont think a centerfielder cares if the pitcher strikes out the side in an inning. But in travel ball, he would be upset since he didnt get a chance to show the scouts anything. I think summer ball can breed just looking out for yourself. For example, in high school, if Jimmy gets in trouble on the mound and loads the bases, if the coach brings in my son to get out of the inning, Jimmy and his parents are rooting for my son. If the same thing happens in summer ball, with 15 scouts in attendance, I dont think Jimmy and his parents are truly rooting for my son to get out of the jam.
People on this site will chastize me for that opinion, but I have seen it before, even had a parent make a comment about the above situation.
There is a place for both high school and summer ball. At the very least, not much can take the place of throwing five days a week from the end of February to the middle of May.
I guess this is the gray area. There are some very competitive, well coached HS teams around here, and there are generally college coaches and scouts at games within our district, especially around Spring Break. Our team is average at best, but son loves his teammates. He has known them all of his life and he wouldn't trade it for the world. We have a new coach this year who is terrific. Our son is a junior, and the contrast in coaching styles between his freshman/sophomre seasons and now is night and day. Practices are meaningful. The coach teaches. He is extremely organized, and you can tell he has spent hours of time in his preparation. Son plays on a good travel team and would be ok w/out HS ball, but for others this is it. All the kids know how lucky they are to have the opportunity to play HS ball and how lucky we are to have this new coach. We can't wait until the season starts. Also, a few of these kids are pretty good. They have had some talent, but possibly not the $$ or baseball knowledge to develop it. I really think this high school season could be huge for two of our players with some raw but undeveloped talent. I understand that there will always be exceptions and reasons not to play HS ball, but the majority of the time the opportunity to represent your high school is something special.
I think there are two paths a kid can follow.
1 - Play high school ball because you love the game, like playing with your friends and playing for the school.
2 - Play summer ball because you love the game and are interested in getting noticed for the possiblity of playing at the next level.
Some kids just want to play high school, enjoy it and move on. For many, their skills will put them on that path. Some want to play later even if it is a small D3 or JUCO.
I talked to a friend of a big D1 baseball program. He said if he gets a video of a kid and it only has high school clips it is tossed. It must have select summer ball. He basically didn't pay any attention to high school.
My son is trying to decide which path he wants. I'm honest and his skills do not warrant a D1 program but he could play at a small JUCO. But his interest in college is going to a big D1 school. So he has a decision to make.
It is sad that high schools sports are loosing a little lustre and good players. I know players in sports such as s****r, tennis, baseball, volleyball and softball that only play club and not high school. And they will be playing at the next level.
1 - Play high school ball because you love the game, like playing with your friends and playing for the school.
2 - Play summer ball because you love the game and are interested in getting noticed for the possiblity of playing at the next level.
Some kids just want to play high school, enjoy it and move on. For many, their skills will put them on that path. Some want to play later even if it is a small D3 or JUCO.
I talked to a friend of a big D1 baseball program. He said if he gets a video of a kid and it only has high school clips it is tossed. It must have select summer ball. He basically didn't pay any attention to high school.
My son is trying to decide which path he wants. I'm honest and his skills do not warrant a D1 program but he could play at a small JUCO. But his interest in college is going to a big D1 school. So he has a decision to make.
It is sad that high schools sports are loosing a little lustre and good players. I know players in sports such as s****r, tennis, baseball, volleyball and softball that only play club and not high school. And they will be playing at the next level.
quote:I think it would be a good trend and a welcomed one.
I could not disagree more with this comment...and much of the rest of the post. And I've talked to a number of D1 college coaches who would vehemently disagree with it as well.
Read the comment by Frank Cruz in cabbagedad's post and you'll see how many/most college coaches feel about this. They are getting burned in recruiting over and over by the kid who can blow 90 but doesn't give a **** about or know much about winning and losing.
Yes, there are bad HS situations...we had one with our older son. But still, winning a league title for your home town with your friends and neighbors and the local newspaper there...competing with the friends you grew up with...and yes, learning to deal with sub-optimal coaches is all a part of an overall experience that makes you proud to go home on Christmas break or after college.
PGStaff has posted some of the best commentary on this in the past which included the importance of HS baseball. Hopefully he'll see this and return to repeat it.
This is a good thing... There are so many High Schools that are missed on the "radar" because either they are to small, they don't produce enough talent, a coach who doesn't have alot of connections, bad coach in general, etc... This should not be a determining factor in college scholarships AND for those serious about playing at the next level it is not and has not but for a few it may be the factor that ends their journey with the sport. Most players who are truly "next level" material find every opportunity they can to be seen, to play competitively and to become the elite who move on. I don't think this will ever rule out High School Baseball nor is it intended to but I do think that more players who may be in a bad situation or not a large school will find their opportunities rather than quiting the sport completely.
I do think summer/fall travel play can do more for a kid's exposure to colleges than his HS season can.
But I also think a kid not playing for his HS team is a red flag that would give college coaches pause and at a minimum, require further inquiry into his reasons for that decision and whether they were true. As a college coach, I would be very concerned at the player's potential lack of commitment to the team concept, and whether that would lead to bad chemistry in my clubhouse in the coming years.
Given enough good reasons and enough talent, I think you could still get recruited, but I think players like this young man will be the exception and not the rule. I would certainly never tell a kid to quit his HS team if he really wanted to move on to college ball. For 99.99999% of the aspiring players out there, that would be a major case of shooting yourself in the foot.
But I also think a kid not playing for his HS team is a red flag that would give college coaches pause and at a minimum, require further inquiry into his reasons for that decision and whether they were true. As a college coach, I would be very concerned at the player's potential lack of commitment to the team concept, and whether that would lead to bad chemistry in my clubhouse in the coming years.
Given enough good reasons and enough talent, I think you could still get recruited, but I think players like this young man will be the exception and not the rule. I would certainly never tell a kid to quit his HS team if he really wanted to move on to college ball. For 99.99999% of the aspiring players out there, that would be a major case of shooting yourself in the foot.
My son is only a HS freshman but has played travel elite and showcase ball. We have heard of upperclassmen that have chosen not to play HS ball and it’s never a positive. They’re always regarded as prima-donnas(sp?) who have differences with the coaching staff. My guess is that talented young people today have a sense of entitlement which unless corrected could limit their future. Learning to subordinate themselves to the coach and the team is a most valuable life lesson. To be able to remain a positive leader while lesser players start ahead of you demonstrates the kind of Character that will serve you in every aspect of life. Play HS Ball!!!!
I think a point is being missed. There are a lot of opinions along the lines of playing HS baseball is special because you represent your school, learn life lessons, compete with friends in your school…... and they are all true, I am with you and agree. But it is only special if the player thinks it’s special or feels that. It is up to the coach, his program and the school to promote those ideas and the positives. Some do not, and I think you cannot discount those situations. However, the point, as I look at the article, is not an article about “Is HS baseball special or not”. It’s about a possible change of baseball culture in recruiting and that one does not have to play HS baseball to get to the next level. Please do not construe this as me bashing all HS baseball. I am not. Is it a commentary on a bad HS baseball program or coach that is bad enough for a player to forgo all of the positives of HS baseball? YES. My son started just about every varsity game in his HS career so I am not necessarily speaking from just my experience. However I think it is an oversight to disregard or discount those players who do not have a good HS situation to play in. They might not have to be married to the idea that they have to play for their HS in order to play in college.
Justbaseball, I don’t doubt you have talked to D1 coaches who disagree that it would be a good trend. I could understand that. However, at certain points of recruiting calendar I am on the phone with D1, D2,D3 NAIA, JUCO coaches on a daily basis. I have spoken to many that agree that it would be a welcomed trend especially for pitchers who can be overworked during a HS season. So even amongst college coaches you will get varying opinions on the state of HS baseball.
I like HS baseball. I like what it is supposed to represent. I always will. But I don’t think it should have to be the means to an end as far as playing in college if the situation warrants it.
Justbaseball, I don’t doubt you have talked to D1 coaches who disagree that it would be a good trend. I could understand that. However, at certain points of recruiting calendar I am on the phone with D1, D2,D3 NAIA, JUCO coaches on a daily basis. I have spoken to many that agree that it would be a welcomed trend especially for pitchers who can be overworked during a HS season. So even amongst college coaches you will get varying opinions on the state of HS baseball.
I like HS baseball. I like what it is supposed to represent. I always will. But I don’t think it should have to be the means to an end as far as playing in college if the situation warrants it.
My sons loved high school ball. I think the premise is that you don't HAVE to play high school ball to get to college. Not doing away with high school ball.
The realization I have come to is that eventually high school ball will be like little league. There are places where it is great and everyone wants to play. They have good fields, good coaches, and the players get better. Other places, little league is terrible, and the better players jump to travel ball early and get good fields, good coaches, and good learning.
I believe the day will come when many players skip high school ball to play travel ball from March on just like the younger ages are doing with little league. The problem is those parents and players will be blasted for downing high school like some are for downing little league. High school is great some places but others it is terrible and a waste of the players time.
The realization I have come to is that eventually high school ball will be like little league. There are places where it is great and everyone wants to play. They have good fields, good coaches, and the players get better. Other places, little league is terrible, and the better players jump to travel ball early and get good fields, good coaches, and good learning.
I believe the day will come when many players skip high school ball to play travel ball from March on just like the younger ages are doing with little league. The problem is those parents and players will be blasted for downing high school like some are for downing little league. High school is great some places but others it is terrible and a waste of the players time.
I must be really naive.
I would have to think that a situation would have to be pretty abusive for my son to do something baseball related and have it be a waste of his time. Certainly in most cases there has to be something they can get out of it.
I would have to think that a situation would have to be pretty abusive for my son to do something baseball related and have it be a waste of his time. Certainly in most cases there has to be something they can get out of it.
I know that my son enjoyed the commradarie of growing and playing baseball with his childhood buddies. Enjoying the highs of winning, and the lows of losing. And in each situation learning how to incorporate each into becoming a better team while also learning valuable life lessons of remaining humble and encouraging each other to not give up.
Honestly, on the high school field is where I got to enjoy watching my son blossom into a young man, a team leader, and a great friend when some of his teammates were removed from the team because of foolishness.
JMHO
YGD
Honestly, on the high school field is where I got to enjoy watching my son blossom into a young man, a team leader, and a great friend when some of his teammates were removed from the team because of foolishness.
JMHO
YGD
a few thoughts here---high school baseball is not the same in every part of the country---hs baseball to me is part of growing up--- representing your town and your hs is part ofbeing a teenager
I'm just worried about this trend precluding those that don't have the financial means or parental support to play travel ball. It is possible to play HS ball for free in many cases, but travel ball becomes a very expensive venture. I don't want baseball to become strictly a middle/upper class sport.
My son will enter the "elite" scene this coming summer for some exposure. But, he would never consider NOT playing HS ball. He has a lot of fun playing with his friends and repping his school. The HS program is by far not a top program and does not have the best coaching staff...but it is still fun and competitive.
HS baseball is important to the HS team, you are playing for your team and your school not for your self or to be recruited.
You go to a showcase for that
You go to a showcase for that
The kick ball sport tat shall remain nameless on this site s o c c e r has been doing this for awhile. In our area just this year the elite club teams prohibited their players from playing for their high schools. Most of the college recruiting seems to come from their club teams and I fear this will be the eventual outcome of high school baseball. If a player is a stud the travel teams do have scholarships for the kids.
And yet my son loved his HS team and coaches and wouldn't have missed those years. He also loved his travel team so he really had the best of both worlds.
And yet my son loved his HS team and coaches and wouldn't have missed those years. He also loved his travel team so he really had the best of both worlds.
I really think the issue can be one of priorities, values and goals.
The title of the article is playing HS is no longer "vital" for college scholarship seekers.
Certainly, if the college scholarship is the main reason/focus for playing baseball for a teenage young man, the point of the article, as we all know, is true.
However, it should also be pointed out there isn't any real information on whether the pathway of not playing in HS can/will prove to be successful when the player is in college. What remains to be seen is how this young man and others like him do under in the college programs which very often focus on team first.
With that said, two recent local developments present, for me at least, the importance of HS baseball during that critical period of development for teenagers, on and off the field.
One was a Q&A done by Troy Tulowitzki. When asked the favorite and most important aspect of baseball in his life, he responded, to the effect MVP's are great, HR's are great, the WS and all that stuff is memorable. For him, the most important aspect of baseball...his teammates, being with them and competing together as team. He then illustrated by describing a situation of a 33 year old who was being sent to AAA, sitting on bench in the Rockies clubhouse crying his eyes out thinking/worrying this could be the end. Tulowitzki sat down with him, discussed everything and described to and for the audience how nothing in baseball could be more important than his teammate and relationships, which began way back in HS.
The second aspect to add to the discussion relates to some postings on a local board about the death of a long time HS coach. For me, this post sort of says it all in appreciating the distinctions of why HS baseball can be so important and the college scholarship, while nice, is often only a small aspect of the entire picture:
"I'd like to share something with everyone about Chuck Camuso. I played for Coach Camuso at Sunnyvale High 1975 through 1978. It was my junior year and my high school sweetheart that I was head over heels in love with had just told me that it was time to move on. It hit me VERY hard and I was privately having a good cry behind one of the far buildings on campus. Somehow Mr. Camuso got wind of this and right in the middle of his P.E. class he ran to the faculty room and found someone to watch his class while he ran to the totally opposite side of the school and hunted me down. He came up and sat down on the ground next to me and talked to me about life and love and heart ache and surviving the daily grind.... and of course about the love of the game. He sat there and talked with me for at least an hour. When we got done, life didn't seem all that bad again. He even walked with me to my next class and talked the teacher into marking my tardy as excused. The things he said to me that day changed my life forever. He could have just said "oh he'll get over it" and gone about his business. Just the fact that he cared enough to come find me made an impression upon my soul."
The title of the article is playing HS is no longer "vital" for college scholarship seekers.
Certainly, if the college scholarship is the main reason/focus for playing baseball for a teenage young man, the point of the article, as we all know, is true.
However, it should also be pointed out there isn't any real information on whether the pathway of not playing in HS can/will prove to be successful when the player is in college. What remains to be seen is how this young man and others like him do under in the college programs which very often focus on team first.
With that said, two recent local developments present, for me at least, the importance of HS baseball during that critical period of development for teenagers, on and off the field.
One was a Q&A done by Troy Tulowitzki. When asked the favorite and most important aspect of baseball in his life, he responded, to the effect MVP's are great, HR's are great, the WS and all that stuff is memorable. For him, the most important aspect of baseball...his teammates, being with them and competing together as team. He then illustrated by describing a situation of a 33 year old who was being sent to AAA, sitting on bench in the Rockies clubhouse crying his eyes out thinking/worrying this could be the end. Tulowitzki sat down with him, discussed everything and described to and for the audience how nothing in baseball could be more important than his teammate and relationships, which began way back in HS.
The second aspect to add to the discussion relates to some postings on a local board about the death of a long time HS coach. For me, this post sort of says it all in appreciating the distinctions of why HS baseball can be so important and the college scholarship, while nice, is often only a small aspect of the entire picture:
"I'd like to share something with everyone about Chuck Camuso. I played for Coach Camuso at Sunnyvale High 1975 through 1978. It was my junior year and my high school sweetheart that I was head over heels in love with had just told me that it was time to move on. It hit me VERY hard and I was privately having a good cry behind one of the far buildings on campus. Somehow Mr. Camuso got wind of this and right in the middle of his P.E. class he ran to the faculty room and found someone to watch his class while he ran to the totally opposite side of the school and hunted me down. He came up and sat down on the ground next to me and talked to me about life and love and heart ache and surviving the daily grind.... and of course about the love of the game. He sat there and talked with me for at least an hour. When we got done, life didn't seem all that bad again. He even walked with me to my next class and talked the teacher into marking my tardy as excused. The things he said to me that day changed my life forever. He could have just said "oh he'll get over it" and gone about his business. Just the fact that he cared enough to come find me made an impression upon my soul."
quote:I like HS baseball. I like what it is supposed to represent. I always will. But I don’t think it should have to be the means to an end as far as playing in college if the situation warrants it.
I agree with that shortnquick. I don't think it needs to be the means to an end either...but I fear a progression where HS baseball is reduced to irrelevant by parents trying to take total control of junior's baseball career. I believe HS sports are very important for development of a player (athletically, academically and emotionally). I also believe HS sports are very important to communities. People wanna say, "Kevin Youkilis played at the same HS as me," or "I remember when Troy Tulowitzki played at the HS just across the road."
Sense of community pride. A place to go back too. I was at a banquet a couple of weeks ago where Tulo spoke...from the heart. His HS program was "ok," better when he played there, not too good overall. First, he thanked every coach in the room (nearly all area HS coaches) for how much they had helped him. Then he spoke about how important his hometown, his community was to him...how they made him what he has become and how he retreats to them for strength and grounding. His wife and parents were there...imagine that! He was receiving a very small award at that banquet compared to the biggies that he has received elsewhere...just a little plaque with a clock on it saying 'County MLB Player of the Year.' He pledged to return every single year they'd be willing to give it to him again. It was his third trip to that banquet for that little clock and plaque "award."
We don't wanna lose that. Trends in the direction of the article threaten that. Its not for me. I hope it remains an exception and I hope those college coaches who told you they welcomed it were only saying something they thought you'd wanna hear rather than something they truly felt. I'll be truthful with you and tell you that through 2 sons' recruitment by a wide range of colleges who played in HS programs at opposite ends of the spectrum (great and bad) as well as elite summer teams, I've never heard any college coach wish for a trend towards less importance on HS baseball.
Seeing that Tanner Rahier’s name is mentioned in the article as someone who doesn’t need high school to get a scholarship begs for some questions. What did Tanner Rahier need? Is it to play in some other league during the High School season?
First of all, Tanner is a player we like very much. I like everything about him and he has outstanding talent. Before this season even starts, he is a definite early round draft candidate. He would be a draft prospect no matter where he plays this spring. Was it because of high school ball? Was it because he plays in something designed to replace High School ball? I think the answer to both questions is a resounding NO. Did he become a top prospect because of what happened over the last few summers? Yes it is very obvious.
We have seen Tanner at 18 events since he was 14 years old (2008), all during the summer and fall. We selected him to play in the PG All American Game (formerly Aflac game) last summer. There is not a scout in America that doesn’t know Tanner Rahier and most MLB Scouting Directors have seen him play. Every major college coach in the country knows who he is and how talented he is. He signed early with San Diego. People should ask the recruiters at San Diego where they found Tanner. Was it in high school? Was it in some other alternate spring league? I think the story itself says San Diego first got serious on Tanner at the WWBA in Jupiter Florida.
Tanner played summer ball on a top high profile summer team that played against the best competition in the country from coast to coast.
Last year he was invited to attend the PG National Showcase held in Ft Myers, Florida. He has played on National Television. He has been ranked among the top players in the country. He was invited to the Area Codes. He is a power hitting shortstop that can throw 93 on the mound and 93 across the infield. He ran a 6.62, 60 yard. He has great makeup. He has been on the prospect map for a long time now.
Here is his profile… Tanner Rahier
I don’t know why he isn’t playing high school this spring. He is the only one that can answer that question. No one should cut him down for his decision, but he is a top prospect no matter where he plays this spring. Truth is, he is more important to the alternate league than the league is to him. He automatically brings talent and very serious scouting attention to the league. Obviously this makes the league more attractive to more players in the future.
All that said, we can’t blame the kids for doing what they think might be best. These top kids get pulled in many directions. Sometimes we are even involved in the pulling. However, never, not once, have we ever tried to pull a kid away from his high school.
I love high school baseball. To me, it is the purest form of baseball for players that age. We all know that there are big differences between high school programs. Some are lucky and have great coaches and mentors. Some get much more attention than others. But they all have a common thread of representing their school and community. The ability to play with childhood friends is hard to replace.
Every so often a bunch of us old codgers get together and swap lies over a few beers. Some played pro ball. several played college ball, some didn't play beyond high school. We’re all in our mid 60s and the thing we talk about the most is the old high school days. The memories from high school are ever lasting. We still talk about games, even plays, that happened nearly 50 years ago.
Bottom line… I know we (PG) do many things and we believe those things are very important and serve a purpose. But nothing we do can replace high school baseball. Nearly every USA born player who ever played in the Big Leagues has one thing in common… They played high school baseball. Same thing goes for nearly every college player. Nothing is perfect, but it seems high school baseball has worked just fine for most of the very best players. The summer and fall leave an opportunity for those who want more.
For the record, I am in favor of more baseball. The more the better! I like the idea of forming leagues for those cut from their high school team or those who just want to play a little. That is adding opportunities, adding more baseball. I’m against forming leagues to compete against or even trying to replace high school baseball. In the end, HS programs will start to drop baseball and save money once they see their top players leaving. That will be a very sad day for baseball, IMO.
Please don’t take anything I’ve said to be negative towards Tanner Rahier because I love that kid. He is an outstanding player, extremely talented, plays the game the right way, great makeup, great kid!
First of all, Tanner is a player we like very much. I like everything about him and he has outstanding talent. Before this season even starts, he is a definite early round draft candidate. He would be a draft prospect no matter where he plays this spring. Was it because of high school ball? Was it because he plays in something designed to replace High School ball? I think the answer to both questions is a resounding NO. Did he become a top prospect because of what happened over the last few summers? Yes it is very obvious.
We have seen Tanner at 18 events since he was 14 years old (2008), all during the summer and fall. We selected him to play in the PG All American Game (formerly Aflac game) last summer. There is not a scout in America that doesn’t know Tanner Rahier and most MLB Scouting Directors have seen him play. Every major college coach in the country knows who he is and how talented he is. He signed early with San Diego. People should ask the recruiters at San Diego where they found Tanner. Was it in high school? Was it in some other alternate spring league? I think the story itself says San Diego first got serious on Tanner at the WWBA in Jupiter Florida.
Tanner played summer ball on a top high profile summer team that played against the best competition in the country from coast to coast.
Last year he was invited to attend the PG National Showcase held in Ft Myers, Florida. He has played on National Television. He has been ranked among the top players in the country. He was invited to the Area Codes. He is a power hitting shortstop that can throw 93 on the mound and 93 across the infield. He ran a 6.62, 60 yard. He has great makeup. He has been on the prospect map for a long time now.
Here is his profile… Tanner Rahier
I don’t know why he isn’t playing high school this spring. He is the only one that can answer that question. No one should cut him down for his decision, but he is a top prospect no matter where he plays this spring. Truth is, he is more important to the alternate league than the league is to him. He automatically brings talent and very serious scouting attention to the league. Obviously this makes the league more attractive to more players in the future.
All that said, we can’t blame the kids for doing what they think might be best. These top kids get pulled in many directions. Sometimes we are even involved in the pulling. However, never, not once, have we ever tried to pull a kid away from his high school.
I love high school baseball. To me, it is the purest form of baseball for players that age. We all know that there are big differences between high school programs. Some are lucky and have great coaches and mentors. Some get much more attention than others. But they all have a common thread of representing their school and community. The ability to play with childhood friends is hard to replace.
Every so often a bunch of us old codgers get together and swap lies over a few beers. Some played pro ball. several played college ball, some didn't play beyond high school. We’re all in our mid 60s and the thing we talk about the most is the old high school days. The memories from high school are ever lasting. We still talk about games, even plays, that happened nearly 50 years ago.
Bottom line… I know we (PG) do many things and we believe those things are very important and serve a purpose. But nothing we do can replace high school baseball. Nearly every USA born player who ever played in the Big Leagues has one thing in common… They played high school baseball. Same thing goes for nearly every college player. Nothing is perfect, but it seems high school baseball has worked just fine for most of the very best players. The summer and fall leave an opportunity for those who want more.
For the record, I am in favor of more baseball. The more the better! I like the idea of forming leagues for those cut from their high school team or those who just want to play a little. That is adding opportunities, adding more baseball. I’m against forming leagues to compete against or even trying to replace high school baseball. In the end, HS programs will start to drop baseball and save money once they see their top players leaving. That will be a very sad day for baseball, IMO.
Please don’t take anything I’ve said to be negative towards Tanner Rahier because I love that kid. He is an outstanding player, extremely talented, plays the game the right way, great makeup, great kid!
Good Post PG, it was a great read!
You've got to respect his work ethic...chop chop
quote:Originally posted by CaBB:
The kick ball sport tat shall remain nameless on this site s o c c e r has been doing this for awhile. In our area just this year the elite club teams prohibited their players from playing for their high schools. Most of the college recruiting seems to come from their club teams and I fear this will be the eventual outcome of high school baseball. If a player is a stud the travel teams do have scholarships for the kids.
And yet my son loved his HS team and coaches and wouldn't have missed those years. He also loved his travel team so he really had the best of both worlds.
And he did have it great in HS- 2 coaches with world series rings that were great coaches and was one of 5 D1 signees that year. So yes he loved it as much or more than his travel team.
http://www.wreg.com/news/wreg-...y#tugs_story_display
Here is a link to a news story about a Coach who does not allow his players to play on the elite travel teams. Things like this are pushing kids away from High School baseball.
Here is a link to a news story about a Coach who does not allow his players to play on the elite travel teams. Things like this are pushing kids away from High School baseball.
quote:Originally posted by CaBB:
The kick ball sport tat shall remain nameless on this site s o c c e r has been doing this for awhile. In our area just this year the elite club teams prohibited their players from playing for their high schools. Most of the college recruiting seems to come from their club teams and I fear this will be the eventual outcome of high school baseball. If a player is a stud the travel teams do have scholarships for the kids.
In Texas it's the exact opposite. The University Interscholastic League (UIL) that oversees high school athletics in the State has banned kids who play club s****r from playing high school s****r. I hope they don't get the bright idea to do a similar thing for baseball...what a joke.
Actually I think the UIL rule only bans kids from playing club sports at the same time as they are playing high school sports. Meaning the seasons can not run concurrently.
And after talking to my friend I am not sure that is even true. His son plays the kickball and he said the major clubs in TX ban their kids from participating in HS kickball
And after talking to my friend I am not sure that is even true. His son plays the kickball and he said the major clubs in TX ban their kids from participating in HS kickball
The LA article centers on "alternative" club leagues during the H.S. baseball season, specific to California. What begins there generally spreads east, unfortunately. In our area though, to date, travel and club leagues have not been formed that compete directly against H.S. baseball because it (H.S. Baseball) is so strong here. In other areas of the country I am sure it could be different.
However, it is true that you can be seen without ever playing a H.S. game. My son's first recruitment was following a Winter Showcase prior to his Junior year. He had not yet played a H.S. varsity game! He was "seen" and recruited from Summer Travel play that following summer. So certainly, you don't have to play H.S. ball and his experience occurred some five years ago.
That being said, his best memories by far, center on his H.S. State Championship win and those Varsity years playing for his school team with his childhood friends!
The summer teams, whether they were before, during or after H.S. (now it's College Summer ball), were always more about personal exposure and or experience (reps). High School was for the team and for the schools reputation and for youthful GLORY..
However, it is true that you can be seen without ever playing a H.S. game. My son's first recruitment was following a Winter Showcase prior to his Junior year. He had not yet played a H.S. varsity game! He was "seen" and recruited from Summer Travel play that following summer. So certainly, you don't have to play H.S. ball and his experience occurred some five years ago.
That being said, his best memories by far, center on his H.S. State Championship win and those Varsity years playing for his school team with his childhood friends!
The summer teams, whether they were before, during or after H.S. (now it's College Summer ball), were always more about personal exposure and or experience (reps). High School was for the team and for the schools reputation and for youthful GLORY..
Just in case no one noticed, the originator of this thread appears to run the league that Tanner plays in.
quote:Originally posted by justbaseball:
Just in case no one noticed, the originator of this thread appears to run the league that Tanner plays in.
And........So What...
He is probably proud of the product he is putting out, as he should be.