LakePoint

Actually I do.  I hat "bag fees" and all the other miscellaneous fees that are charged.  It's kind of like the difference between $19.99 and $20.00.  Give me an all inclusive price.  That's why I like Disney World -- one price, hotel, parks, buses, etc.  But that is just me and my old age. 

 

And here's a thing I'm wondering.  With debit cards and smart phone app payments, I find myself walking around with less cash these days.  I have been caught short going to some tournaments -- but they were nice and let me pay short. 

Yes, but all those fees are NOT what PG charges the player.  PG CANNOT take your own travel into account when setting their tournament fees.  Those are incidental costs that each family has to take into account when deciding whether to attend these events.  The gate fee is for everyone, other than the players.  So, PG IS charging the players in the neighborhood of $15 to $18 per player per game to play in their tournaments.  It is NOT their responsibility to figure how much the incidental costs are going to be for the family.

 

Just like if you go to Disney.  You are going to pay around $150 per day per person to go there.  Of course there are travel costs to get there.  You are going to have to get a hotel once you are there.  You are going to have to pay for your food in addition to that.  There are some attractions you may have to pay extra for.  If you want souvenirs you are going to have to pay extra for them.  It is not Disney's fault you have to come up with all the extra money for these things.  You budget it into your cost of the trip.  

 

I have not been to Disney with my kids.  Part of the reason for that is what I talked about above.  A Disney trip would not only cost me $150 per day for 4 people ($600 per day), but it would cost the travel costs to get there, a hotel for several days, expensive meals while in the park, souvenirs, etc...  Just WAY to expensive for me.  

 

If you look at a tournament at Lake Point, you have the option of doing the same financial analysis and make your decision.  Just know that you are only paying PG $15 to $18 per game for the player to play there.  Everything else is incidental and related to the family coming to see the player.

My son and I are going down to LP this week. I was just wondering if there is any seating/shade down the lines? It is my jinx to sit behind the plate. Are you allowed to bring chairs in?

The benefit is a tournament is guaranteeing x number of rooms are available. I know in a non PG tournament we played the tournament was financially responsible if a certain number of rooms weren't filled.

Twenty isn't a large roster. My son's team went with twelve position players and ten pitchers. Ten pitchers isn't a lot for seven games.

Depends on just how many position players also pitch. . . huh???

By 17u players are typically position players or pitchers. My son's team had a few position players who pitched in high school. They pitched mop up in one sided games. My son once started and shocked his teammates throwing five innings of two hit, no walk ball against one of the best teams in our area.

No need to bring chairs, the fields have stadium seating AT LP, now if you draw a game at ECB you may or may not need a chair as some fields have nice stadium seating and others not so much! 

 

Not having ECB fields open right now due to tourneys are driving the ECB coaches crazy who are trying to field teams for 2015/2016...I saw one posting where an ECB coach was having a tryout at a church baseball field....it's really fun to watch the postings, they are trying to be so creative!

After getting through this thread I've noticed the posters whose kids have been through the journey aren't complaining. They know they got their monies worth. I told people the week at East Cobb was the most expensive week of sports relating to my son. I didn't have to go. But it was worth it.

 

Parents who didn't have potential college athletes thought I was out of my mind over the money I spent on my daughter and son during recruiting time. Of course, they spent a lot of money on training when their mediocre athletes were seven to fourteen and I wasn't spending anything. I thought they were out of their minds.

RJM, this is my fourth time through the travel circuit and I have seen it change in the past 5 years . Th fact is only 10% of high school at baseball players will ever see a college field , this stuff is for the 90%



> On Jul 20, 2015, at 1:42 PM, HS Baseball Web <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:
>

Plenty of parents posting here will someday find out that their beloved child was not in the 10% of HS players that go on to play college baseball. RJM is implying that anyone complaining about the cost of East Cobb must have a mediocre baseball player as a son, perhaps trying to shame them into not complaining? Not cool in my book. But what do I know...

Maybe a place like a PG event is not the best idea for the 90%/non prospects. But some parents and players have to figure it out the hard way. The people I personally know who criticize PG had no business sending their kids. They made a bad decision and covered for it calling PG a rip off.

While I agree that only 10% of HS players go on to play college ball, I disagree about "this stuff is for the 10%".  When I have the time, I may go through the rosters to verify but I believe it is much more than 10% that come to ECB/WWBA/LakePoint commit to colleges to play baseball.  One of the teams I listed above with 28 on roster had all their players committed. 

How has it changed?  Pretty sure PG prices are close to the same they were 5 years ago.  I know the gate fee hasn't changed.  The only thing I see changed is the $5 parking fee.

 

And I don't agree that this is not for the 10%.  Granted, only around 10% of HS baseball players will see the next level.  MUCH fewer than 10% may not need this.  The ones who may not need this are the VERY low percentage of high level D1 prospects and the even lower percentage of MLB draft prospects.  Those kids will stand out no matter what, but they may only be 2% of the HS baseball population.  I would say even those kids need to be seen playing somewhere, and there is no place better than a PG event to be seen for the vast majority of even those players.  

 

What about the rest of the kids who are vying for mid/low level D1, D2, D3, JUCO and NAIA?  Competition is fierce for these spots and many, many of them need to be seen competing.  Pretty much all of the scouts/recruiters are going to PG events to see these kids play because it is much more convenient for them to see 100 prospects play during one week in one tournament than for them to drive or fly around the country seeing individual kids play.  

 

Just not buying that the 10% who will play college ball don't need this kind of exposure and that the whole tournament is put on to make money off of the 90% who won't play beyond HS.  Just not true.

Agree with this. Going with unrealistic expectations of the event with a son who is not a college-level player, and I suspect MOST parents on these boards have kids who are in or CLOSE to the top 10% (i.e., very few wildly misguided/deluded parents), is going to be an expensive waste of time. Or at least an over-priced experience.

 

300+ teams is a LOT. I mean a heck of a lot. I suspect pure "bad luck" and the daunting numbers can keep plenty of otherwise non-high D1 college-bound players off everybody's radar.

 

When my son's 2017 summer team folded at the last second that was going to WWBA (so we did not go), I was told by several knowledgable parent-coaches that a 2017 catcher (very good but not a mega-stud) was simply not going to get a lot of traction at that PG event and it was a lot of money.

fwiw, our family spent much more for the week at Cooperstown (12U)  than a week at East Cobb (15U-17U).  Each time we made it our vacation for the summer, but I understand/don't understand that people still need their week at the beach.

 

I am making a general statement, some teams do have more. My 2014 sons team team was ranked 1 in the nation and won the WWBA. 4 drafted , 5 Vandy, and all committed, but that is rare



> On Jul 20, 2015, at 2:16 PM, HS Baseball Web <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:
>

I am not saying that PG is for the 10% , just the opposite . To the top 2% this is just another venue



> On Jul 20, 2015, at 2:16 PM, HS Baseball Web <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:
>

I did not say the top 10% do not need to attend PG they certainly do , what I am saying is there are many teams that this there last tourney of the year trip. Also the exposure aspect is also misleading, to think you are going to come here and get noticed is a long shot , recruiters know who they want to see and don't have time to see the others . There is also area code, team USA , east coast pro to name a few . The better events including PG you have to be invited to



> On Jul 20, 2015, at 2:16 PM, HS Baseball Web <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:
>

Exactly



> On Jul 20, 2015, at 2:21 PM, HS Baseball Web <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:
>

Really? I find it the people who have no business being there love the place more than can be imagined? It often validates the delusion of baseball grandeur. At any cost.

 

But seriously? Why do you have the correlation between talent and a negative view of the $ required to be paid to play at PG?

 

Talented or not, rich or poor, it could be construed as a ripoff to 90% of the players in hindsight.

 

I know, I know. Don't come, don't go. Easy.

 

 

 

 

What did you mean when you said this:

 

Th fact is only 10% of high school at baseball players will ever see a college field , this stuff is for the 90% 

 

Area Code, Team USA, East Coast Pro are for the top 0.5% - 1.0%.  The rest of these kids will never be in that class, but still can play college ball somewhere.

 

No one is arguing that you can't just come to the WWBA and expect to be picked up out of the blue, although it does happen on the rare occasion.  However, most college recruiters want to see the kids play somewhere, even if they've seen them before and are on their radar.  My son didn't get recruited out of a PG event, BUT, they contacted us prior to a WWBA event and asked WHEN he would be pitching at PG so they could see him again.  Not IF he would be pitching there, WHEN he would be pitching there.  If a recruiter wants to see a kid they are interested in play again, and the kid isn't playing in the PG event they will be attending, chances are they will find someone else of equal talent rather than tracking that kid down to watch him play at a Triple Crown or USSSA tournament.  Or go see one of his Legion games.  It's just too convenient to see him at PG when he is there anyway.

 

And I'm not talking about the 1 percenter who has multiple big D1 offers and MLB interest.  Recruiters will go out of there way to see them somewhere.  I'm talking about the average mid/low D1, D2, D3, JUCO or NAIA recruit.  In these cases, the kids need to go out of their way rather than the recruiters going out of there way.  

This thread has officially jumped the shark. Tedious does not even begin describe it. This horse has been beaten to death. Let it go. Move on.

My guess is it is a MUCH, MUCH higher percentage of kids that play in PG events wind up playing in college as opposed to the percentage of kids who play HS ball.  I would say a pretty high percentage of kids who play HS ball never go to a PG event.  

 

I'd be interested to know what percentage of kids who have played in a PG event at say 15-18 wind up playing in college?  My guess is closer to 40 or 50%.

Ok , there are 400,xxx high school baseball players in the U.S. Let's say there are 100,000 sr's. In all levels of college there are around 17000 college roster spots in all levels . So let's say 30% of them are freshman or 5100 spots



> On Jul 20, 2015, at 2:50 PM, HS Baseball Web <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:
>

-10u was a trip to Panama City Beach for a 4 game guarantee that required you to stay there for a week.

-11u was a trip to Panama City Beach for a 4 game guarantee that required you to stay there a week

-12u was a trip to Cooperstown for a seven game guarantee that required you to stay there a week

 

Then there is Disney, Ripken, TC Myrtle Beach....etc....

 

Point being...it's just another end of the year destination baseball trip....why are people flipping out? Perhaps RJM has a point...maybe at 12u the "dream" is still alive, but at 15-17u people realize they have been wasting thousands of dollars a year on a sport their kid is no where near one of the best in? *shrug*

 

I agree though I said HS school players , but for the sake of argument I would say 25% if PG attendees would at some sort of college



> On Jul 20, 2015, at 2:53 PM, HS Baseball Web <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:
>

Excuse me, but didnt you tell me that you played a team that had no business being there. 

Who are you to determine who should or should not play in this tournament? Or how people spend their money for that matter. Maybe teams are going just to participate, and dont care about being noticed.

 

Son took a team up to EC in June, maybe they didnt belong there because they lost all of their games, but they havent stopped losing every since.

 

 

TPM its just an observation, an opinion , on a public forum
Not intended to be personal . I just feel that some folks are being mislead about some aspects of travel ball



> On Jul 20, 2015, at 2:59 PM, HS Baseball Web <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:
>

" I would say a pretty high percentage of kids who play HS ball never go to a PG event."

 

I am really not trying to be funny with this. But the whole high school bench is there with their summer academy teams almost weekly. Only difference is that several different high school benches are represented on each summer academy team. Either way, they are all there on some of the multiple local academy teams.

 

I think that the reason why this happens is because of all the teams coming into the area, the organizers need to make sure there are accommodations for the players. That can only be accomplished by holding rooms and guaranteeing that rooms would be booked.  Whether they make some $$ or lose some $$ is irrelevant.  

I do not see why local teams would be expected to book, but sometimes everyone in one place at one time makes for better chemistry, and fun. 

I mean isnt that what it is all about?

Good point made bballman. My sons HS travel team the last two summers in HS had a roster of 28, most of the time traveled with 20-24.

Also, the costs we incurred included bus as well as accomodations, he preferred that players not stay with the parents, and that the team be together. I found this to be pretty good for most of us, we had to work and we would have rather paid him money to show off and play our kids than to gatekeepers and concession stands.  I guess parents these days feel that they have to oversee every part of their kids lives.

I do remember our cost to WWBA in Jupiter, we live an hour away but stayed locally in a hotel. We then had to pay $75 per player, that was a long time ago. It costs back then as it did now.

JMO

 

I used to own an event company. People have no clue the costs of putting on an event.  Think about ALL the people that work at these events, and insurance and permit fees, and everything else needed to run this particular type of business.

I agree with redbird.  

 

If these costs and PG making a profit does bother you, stick to local. 

In my opinion, one of the biggest points this thread is failing to address is the fact that the most talented kids WANT to be where the most talent is. My son loves competing at WWBA, Jupiter, and East Coast Pro. His travel team had at least 7 kids that were drafted this past year and 6 have signed. Many others, including my son, opted the college route. Our entire team was mainly D1 kids and the team was composed of 12-15 position players and 15-18 PO's. Not every kid was available for every tourney, but we typically had 28-30 kids at these big tournaments because of the need for pitching. Most of these guys were committed by the summer, yet they continued to show up because they wanted to compete against the best. That, to me, is what PG provides and frankly I don't think I can put a price on that.

There are seat back chairs from on deck circle to on deck circle.  Chairs probably are not needed

Just for the record there are many players getting recruited at these tournaments.  Players that were unknown before they got here.  Not everyone that shows up gets recruited.  It is nearly impossible to play in these events and go unnoticed.  People would have to be behind the scene to know how this works.

 

BTW, also for the record, we do not sell teams to play in these tournaments.  Tjere is no sales pitch!  They come to us!  Mostly the same teams every year and many of the top organizations in the country.  There were nearly 200 teams that we turned down for the 17U championship.  We simply didn't have room for them.

 

It seems odd that the same folks bitching about the parking and turf and other things are now bitching about all those supposed bad players being taken advantage of.  Is there anything good about any of this?  What's next?  have all the negative points been covered yet.  I fully understand that we are not Perfect!  We actually make some mistakes!  But it is very obvious that for some reason there are a few people here looking for every possible thing to make into an issue.

 

BTW, maybe it is true that the top 2% don't need PG events.  However the facts show that nearly all of them have.  It's all documented for anyone interested in the truth.  Most recently, the MLB All Star game included 75% who played in PG events.  Check the top college rosters and search to see how many played PG events.  Check the draft every year, starting with the 1st round and see how many attended these events.  There's a reason all those recruiters and scouts show up.  It's because of a history of results.

I take parenting very seriously, and I work very hard at it everyday.  But I still make mistakes.  

 

Congratulations to the one(s) on this thread who have done everything perfectly along the way and share their perfection with the others of us who are just trying to do the right things for our kids. 

You know, I think it is great.  Anything that gives opportunities to the kids is alright in my book.  Bottom line, even if a kid isn't college talent, it is an experience worth going thru.  I think back to my younger years and we had none of this.  No indoor facilities.  No experienced guys really teaching us how to play (just well meaning dads).  No 
"travel" ball.  I was recruited for small college football -- no camps, no showcases.  I think they just checked my grades to see if I could get in.  Today, I look back and wonder, if only we had all the resources the kids have today what could I have become? 

 

So keep going.  Yes, I'm not a fan of the nickel and dime fees.  Frankly, my experience is they just add more drama than is necessary.  I'd prefer to just add them in the cost of the event.  That's just me.  But, I'd pay them to see the kid play.   

I am going to stop posting , my comments are being mis construed. I say something and it's taken and ran with and 6 posts later it's not even close to what I meant . If you read my post I have said that PG is great at what they do , and they are not perfect . If I'm back tracking then so be it . I will take the heat for it . David



> On Jul 20, 2015, at 4:34 PM, HS Baseball Web <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:
>

       
       

  Could PG survive as a business model without the revenue generated from the 90%?