Little League Screws Things Up Even More

In my county, 8th graders compete to play for their future high school's JV team.

 

In Williamsport, they could play on a field designed for pre-pubescent 6th graders.

 

According to Williamsport, this was all done in respnse to alleged requests from local leagues and districts "to provide a better transition for younger players," as well as to match the international standards.  I don't know how anyone thinks this is better.  I seriously doubt anyone asking for something "better" meant for this to happen.

Agree. Little league has gone too far in age discrepancy. 12-14 year olds should not be playing in fields meant for 9/10 year olds.

The cut off is december 31st not January 1st. If a kid turns 13 on December 30 he won't be allowed to play. No one 13 years old will be allowed to play. Williamsport will have more 11 year olds now.

Totally agree, it's pretty lame. I did enjoy watching some of the LLWS but after seeing higher levels of travel ball playing with "real baseball" rules ie; leading off, holding runners, pitching from the stretch , steals etc....LL to me has lost it's luster and this will keep me from ever watching it again.

 

I wonder how many on this board who's sons played travel with the real rules of the game ever talked to the TV (Like I did) and said, "(insert son's name here)'s team would mutilate this squad if we were in Williamsport!"

Are you referring to the LL Major division? I think the new age chart dictates that the oldest you could possible be at Williamsport (in August) will be to have turned 12 years old on January 1st of that year. So the oldest kids will be about 12 1/2.

Midlo ... You have it backwards. The deadline date is moving the other way. Essentially eligibility is "What is your age this year (spring/summer)? There won't be any more thirteen year olds on the LL field once those grandfathered pass through.

Watching the LLWS all these years I always felt that the teams that had a chance to win had top flight pitching compared to 12U travel and the top group of the teams each year were competitive with all but the gorilla teams.  I do believe the good travel teams are deeper than the lesser LLWS teams from the US. 

 

I do hope that the goal is to make it so that you can be no more than 12 at the LLWS.  They should put another 25' on those fences and spread the bases to 70 and then they'll have a real show.  Bring 1st to 3rd and runners scoring from 2nd into the game.  Make the catching position the premium it should be.

Under the old rules, a kid that turned 13 on January 2nd (for example) was considered a baseball age 13 year old.  Now, under the new rule, that same kid will be considered a baseball age 12 year old.

 

There needs to be a push to adopt the Ripken size infield for the majors in LL.  50' distance from the mound to the plate and 70' bases and allow leads for the baserunners. 

 

My sons and I did watch some LLWS games and think exactly that. They played both LL and travel ball growing up. But, you have to remember the LL teams, although all star teams, are made up of players all from the same league.  In essence, they all live within a few miles of each other.  Comparing a LL all star team to a travel team that may draw from a wider radius is a little bit of an apple and orange scenario.

From littleleague.org website:

 

Little League would like to share some background, which will help those in the Little League family gain a better understanding of why we are implementing this change. A decade ago, Little League adjusted the age determination date to a players age as of May 1. In recent years, through extensive market research aimed at addressing growth in youth baseball, Little League heard from young parents that the perception is our program had become a teenage program (Little League Major Division) due to the dominance of chronological aged 13-year-olds playing during the regular season and all-star tournaments. These parents felt that Little League should return to purely a 12 and under program. Our organization explored various adjustments to the age determination date in an effort to become younger. The new age determination date accomplishes this and lets players, parents, and leagues use the various age levels of the Little League Baseball divisions to ensure all Little Leaguers are playing in the division that best suits their skill level.

 

As a result of this recent adjustment to the implementation strategy, effective immediately, any player born on or after January 1, 2006 who will turn the ages of 4-9 during the 2015 calendar year will be eligible to participate in a local Little League program and will use the new age determination date of December 31 for the reminder of their Little League career. Players will still be assigned to a division based on local league divisional structure.

Consequently, players born prior to January 1, 2006 will continue to utilize the current age determination date of April 30 for the 2015, 2016, and 2017 seasons. In 2018 all players born prior to January 1, 2006 will begin utilizing December 31 as their age determination date. The majority of concerns will surround the fact that a 2015 league age nine (9) year old will be 10 in 2016, 11 in 2017, but in 2018 will effectively be league age 13 and will advance out of the major league division.

Well, I wish I could take it all back.  I read only the Baseball America article, which was based on the release found here:  http://www.littleleague.org/me...termination_Date.htm

 

But that page links to a longer explanation that is not all that easy to understand, but after carefully parsing it, I see that RJM is correct.  See: 

http://www.littleleague.org/me...termination_Date.htm

---

Rosana Rosanadana: "Nevermind."

 

Seems to be a lot of confusion about this change, but it's really not that complicated. One of the (few?) good things about the Jan 1 date is that you don't have to calculate the age. Whatever your actual age is at any given time is also your "baseball age". This should make Williamsport a little more tolerable by cutting the max age of these kids by about 7 months.

 

They probably confused people even more by using a chart.

 

http://www.littleleague.org/le...v14/newplayerage.htm

 

 

What that says is, they are moving the aging date to the calendar year.  But at the same time, they're shifting the applicable birth years up a year so that instead of having even older players on the field, they're actually capping the divisions at younger levels.

 

When they moved from July 1 to April 30, the result was that players as much as 3 months older stayed eligible for the younger level.  With this move, those players born in between those dates will shift back to what would've been their age level under the prior rule.  PLUS, players born Aug.1 to Dec. 31 are now moving DOWN an age level from where they have always been.

 

I'll apologize for my error above.  And I'm happy they're going to younger players, not older players.

 

But I have to admit, I still think July 31 worked better and would work better.  I liked it when your average 4th grader played against his 4th grade classmates, without having half in one group and half in another.

 

I suppose now we wait to see how other organizations respond; do they follow suit?  I would think yes, based on history, and based on the wholesale confusion that'll ensue if they don't.

Last year's Little League SW regional winner that advanced to (quarters/semi's of U.S. grouping) also put their all-star team in USSSA open bases tournaments.  They were routinely drummed in the AAA division.

I gotta second this. As 12's my team swamped a team in Omaha 14-2 that ended up in the LLWS that same year.

Agree with notex. It's not easy finding kids from the same zip code who can play baseball and be competitive. I think its the same zip code, not really sure but for me I don't see completive baseball.  The girl from Chicago and I forget her name now although very good I seriously doubt she would have done as good as she did playing AAA/Majors level travel ball.  Although I must say some of the games were fun to watch and ll has done a fabulous job promoting the game of baseball.  So for that reason I wish them well.

meant to add that we were, at best, a mediocre USSSA major team. But, then again, we also had no geographical restrictions.

The 12U Cal Ripken World Series is much more competitive than LL I think.  But to watch them I had to pay for the cable service. As a side note my son won the CR 10U national championship in Colorado in 2009.  The 10s only go as high as nationals.  

That was in Lamar, my new home town (moved there a little over a year ago. I was also at that tourney, but with the team from Bryant, AR.

Wow talk about a small world. Yes Lamar, nice little cow town. One of my best baseball memories with my son. We were playing with West Raleigh NC, we beat Connecticut for the championship. Outstanding baseball.  Good luck to you in your new home.

       
       
The SE champions last year were made made up of some of the top players from three or four of the top travel teams in the area. Every kid on that team but one played USSSA majors or AAA. It can't be a coincidence that the only team which I'm familiar with the kids is the only team with players like this. I doubt the players would have trouble with the uber advanced baseball with open bases and everything. I know two of the kids on that team that never played a lick of LL until that season to try and take a shot a Williamsport. They had always played travel. On of those kids that plays at the same academy as my son has a USSSA ring for every finger and said nothing compares to Williamsport. I'm pretty sure the top teams at Williamsport wouldn't have much trouble at any USSSA tournament.

I'll agree with Scotty.  Once the world series starts I do see kids who can play real baseball and can be competitive in their age group in any league.  I just can't get past when I see a 12 soon to be 13 year old playing on a field meant for 9-10 year olds.  Anyway God bless LL, they've done a great job for kids all over the world.

I have no dog in this dilemma since my son is too old but I remember when the age was changed to April 30 and had to argue at our local baseball board that we should allow boys to play up if they want to so they could play with their grade. I won that argument and my son along with others got to play where they belong.

There has got to be a way that that they could have kept the 04/30 DOB and then also use grade level to keep 13 yr olds from playing. Maybe even move the date back to July or Aug. Maybe not, but it is not fair, IMO, to break up a grade of boys playing together. January 1 is just an artificial date and doesn't follow school years in any form or fashion.

Isn't it more accurate to say whatever age you turn on your birthday this year is your "baseball age"?...like USA Baseball does it.

If you are used to real baseball LLWS is hard to watch. They do a good job of marketing the whole event so you know someone is making money. But when a 13 year old 200lb. 6 foot pitcher doesn't hold the runner on because they don't even lead off its not good baseball to me.

        Their losses were by 5 runs, 3 runs, 2 runs (twice), and 1 run. Where exactly are all the "drummings"?

In the 9-15 age groups the May babies have the advantage they turn their age 6 months before everyone else. That advantage drops off during high school and beyond when the rest of the kids catch up in their size and maturity.  My son just turned 16, those may babies who were huge 3-4 years ago no longer have the advantage they once had. 

 

Agree with redfish, moving the dob further to aug/sept may make it better. By not giving the may babies the advantage of being 6 months older.  

The funny thing about this is that when little league was founded in Williamsport 75 years ago, the Jul. 31/Aug. 1 cutoff was chosen specifically because that was the school cutoff in that area at that time -- i.e., the little league cutoff was designed specifically to keep kids in the same grade playing each other. Now that doesn't even seem to be a consideration for LL.

 

My younger son is one of those 2006 kids who are being pushed up. I couldn't care less (he'd be playing up anyway), he doesn't know or care, and generally I think it is a good idea to have LL fields restricted to 11 year olds and kids just turning 12.

Not 12 year olds. 

 

 

I watch the LLWS, but, yeah, I yell at the tv especially when watching a 6' 2" / 195 lb kid throwing 70mph from 46'. Of course he's dominating. I assume they will eventually transition. The distances made sense forty years ago when LL age was typically a kid's first experience with organized ball and they were still learning all of the intricacies of the game. However, today, by the time a kid is 12, he's most likely in his sixth or seventh year of organized baseball. Time to move on to big biy baseball.

I'm fine with the new LL age. My son played LL until he was a 12u, unfortunately they were never able to get out of their district. He wanted to experience that, even at the expense of missing some travel games. He loved it and I'm glad that he had the opportunity.

Now if we could only fix the whole grad year thing, so that my 2017 15 year old would play with kids his age instead of so many 16, 17 and 18 year old 2017's. There are so many kids that will start college at 19 and 20 that it is laughable.  It's bothered me at times, but my son could care less. All it's done for him is force him to constantly face older players. Personally, I believe it's part of the reason that he was able to make and start on the HS varsity team as a freshman. First one in almost 20 years of the HC's career. It drove him to beat out sophomores, juniors and seniors last year and it will do the same should he be fortunate to play in college.

One thing to remember that even though most LL players are from the US it is an international organization.  School years are different all over the world - not everybody is off of school during June, July and August.  Many other organizing bodies follow what is now LL age rules like USA Hockey.

 

2015 will be my 10th season as LL board member in my town - my one child (son) has been playing full-time Club baseball since 2012..  I was President for 3 years (2 of which I had no child in the league) and am very proud of what we have accomplished in our town with LL.  It builds baseball and community.  I love nothing more than going down to our main fields on a Friday night in June seeing hundreds of people enjoying the two games being played.

 

 

 

Yes, that's much more accurate.  Thanks 

Every year a thread here morphs into "my travel team could beat your LLWS team" 

 

So what - as someone said it is apples and oranges. I like that they are moving the age down a 1/2 year this is a good change IMO. 

 

LL does more than any organization to promote and develop youth baseball. At it's core it is a community based organization and not only develops youth baseball but also helps develop stronger communities, as does other local community based sports such as local basketball and soccer leagues, etc. Frankly my fondest memories of my son playing baseball go back to his LL years playing with all of his local friends and their families. I still have friends that we developed in those years that are irreplaceable. Two of my fondest stories about my son playing ball are from LL T-ball. Thank God for LL baseball. 

Every year a thread here morphs into "my travel team could beat your LLWS team"

 

Every year it's a new crop of chest-puffing dads who too ignorant to realize that it's ridiculous to compare teams with geographical restrictions to teams without them.

 

 

Don't know about other areas, but most of my son's teammates on his travel team got their start in "Little League".

 

BOF - spot on!

I wish my 2016 could have played LL.Weather you agree or not its like playing for your local HS.I played at belmont LL in Il. At that time it was at the top or right there at the top of LL programs in my state.During all stars it was your 1st real chance to go up against some of the same kids you would play against all thru H.S.It was not only great for the kids the parents took real pride in "thier boys".Nothing like those early tourney games when Belmont plays either Rivals LL team.The place was pack.Standing room only.Which only reinforced the us vs them sort of thing.Same rivals is gone.Too much travel.While I don't want to hijack thread I doo believe a good aurgument could be made about the quality of baseball players that came up thru LL vs. other ways.While pro players now are for sure in better physical condition.With other factors as 30 teams vs. what 24@ 1980(just a guess)I think the baseball players were just a cut above now on the average going back to say above date.When you get away from the bigger cities LL was a kids first taste of our town Vs. your town which is another level above my turn thru LL.I know things never stay the same and progress rules.I just feel there are alot of other factors that really hurt LL other than weather its 50ft or 54 or weather the base pathes are 60 or 70.Just me thinking