Little League Screws Things Up Even More

In my county, 8th graders compete to play for their future high school's JV team.

 

In Williamsport, they could play on a field designed for pre-pubescent 6th graders.

 

According to Williamsport, this was all done in respnse to alleged requests from local leagues and districts "to provide a better transition for younger players," as well as to match the international standards.  I don't know how anyone thinks this is better.  I seriously doubt anyone asking for something "better" meant for this to happen.

Agree. Little league has gone too far in age discrepancy. 12-14 year olds should not be playing in fields meant for 9/10 year olds.

The cut off is december 31st not January 1st. If a kid turns 13 on December 30 he won't be allowed to play. No one 13 years old will be allowed to play. Williamsport will have more 11 year olds now.

Totally agree, it's pretty lame. I did enjoy watching some of the LLWS but after seeing higher levels of travel ball playing with "real baseball" rules ie; leading off, holding runners, pitching from the stretch , steals etc....LL to me has lost it's luster and this will keep me from ever watching it again.

 

I wonder how many on this board who's sons played travel with the real rules of the game ever talked to the TV (Like I did) and said, "(insert son's name here)'s team would mutilate this squad if we were in Williamsport!"

Are you referring to the LL Major division? I think the new age chart dictates that the oldest you could possible be at Williamsport (in August) will be to have turned 12 years old on January 1st of that year. So the oldest kids will be about 12 1/2.

Midlo ... You have it backwards. The deadline date is moving the other way. Essentially eligibility is "What is your age this year (spring/summer)? There won't be any more thirteen year olds on the LL field once those grandfathered pass through.

Watching the LLWS all these years I always felt that the teams that had a chance to win had top flight pitching compared to 12U travel and the top group of the teams each year were competitive with all but the gorilla teams.  I do believe the good travel teams are deeper than the lesser LLWS teams from the US. 

 

I do hope that the goal is to make it so that you can be no more than 12 at the LLWS.  They should put another 25' on those fences and spread the bases to 70 and then they'll have a real show.  Bring 1st to 3rd and runners scoring from 2nd into the game.  Make the catching position the premium it should be.

Under the old rules, a kid that turned 13 on January 2nd (for example) was considered a baseball age 13 year old.  Now, under the new rule, that same kid will be considered a baseball age 12 year old.

 

There needs to be a push to adopt the Ripken size infield for the majors in LL.  50' distance from the mound to the plate and 70' bases and allow leads for the baserunners. 

 

My sons and I did watch some LLWS games and think exactly that. They played both LL and travel ball growing up. But, you have to remember the LL teams, although all star teams, are made up of players all from the same league.  In essence, they all live within a few miles of each other.  Comparing a LL all star team to a travel team that may draw from a wider radius is a little bit of an apple and orange scenario.

From littleleague.org website:

 

Little League would like to share some background, which will help those in the Little League family gain a better understanding of why we are implementing this change. A decade ago, Little League adjusted the age determination date to a players age as of May 1. In recent years, through extensive market research aimed at addressing growth in youth baseball, Little League heard from young parents that the perception is our program had become a teenage program (Little League Major Division) due to the dominance of chronological aged 13-year-olds playing during the regular season and all-star tournaments. These parents felt that Little League should return to purely a 12 and under program. Our organization explored various adjustments to the age determination date in an effort to become younger. The new age determination date accomplishes this and lets players, parents, and leagues use the various age levels of the Little League Baseball divisions to ensure all Little Leaguers are playing in the division that best suits their skill level.

 

As a result of this recent adjustment to the implementation strategy, effective immediately, any player born on or after January 1, 2006 who will turn the ages of 4-9 during the 2015 calendar year will be eligible to participate in a local Little League program and will use the new age determination date of December 31 for the reminder of their Little League career. Players will still be assigned to a division based on local league divisional structure.

Consequently, players born prior to January 1, 2006 will continue to utilize the current age determination date of April 30 for the 2015, 2016, and 2017 seasons. In 2018 all players born prior to January 1, 2006 will begin utilizing December 31 as their age determination date. The majority of concerns will surround the fact that a 2015 league age nine (9) year old will be 10 in 2016, 11 in 2017, but in 2018 will effectively be league age 13 and will advance out of the major league division.

Well, I wish I could take it all back.  I read only the Baseball America article, which was based on the release found here:  http://www.littleleague.org/me...termination_Date.htm

 

But that page links to a longer explanation that is not all that easy to understand, but after carefully parsing it, I see that RJM is correct.  See: 

http://www.littleleague.org/me...termination_Date.htm

---

Rosana Rosanadana: "Nevermind."

 

Seems to be a lot of confusion about this change, but it's really not that complicated. One of the (few?) good things about the Jan 1 date is that you don't have to calculate the age. Whatever your actual age is at any given time is also your "baseball age". This should make Williamsport a little more tolerable by cutting the max age of these kids by about 7 months.

 

They probably confused people even more by using a chart.

 

http://www.littleleague.org/le...v14/newplayerage.htm

 

 

What that says is, they are moving the aging date to the calendar year.  But at the same time, they're shifting the applicable birth years up a year so that instead of having even older players on the field, they're actually capping the divisions at younger levels.

 

When they moved from July 1 to April 30, the result was that players as much as 3 months older stayed eligible for the younger level.  With this move, those players born in between those dates will shift back to what would've been their age level under the prior rule.  PLUS, players born Aug.1 to Dec. 31 are now moving DOWN an age level from where they have always been.

 

I'll apologize for my error above.  And I'm happy they're going to younger players, not older players.

 

But I have to admit, I still think July 31 worked better and would work better.  I liked it when your average 4th grader played against his 4th grade classmates, without having half in one group and half in another.

 

I suppose now we wait to see how other organizations respond; do they follow suit?  I would think yes, based on history, and based on the wholesale confusion that'll ensue if they don't.

Last year's Little League SW regional winner that advanced to (quarters/semi's of U.S. grouping) also put their all-star team in USSSA open bases tournaments.  They were routinely drummed in the AAA division.

I gotta second this. As 12's my team swamped a team in Omaha 14-2 that ended up in the LLWS that same year.

Agree with notex. It's not easy finding kids from the same zip code who can play baseball and be competitive. I think its the same zip code, not really sure but for me I don't see completive baseball.  The girl from Chicago and I forget her name now although very good I seriously doubt she would have done as good as she did playing AAA/Majors level travel ball.  Although I must say some of the games were fun to watch and ll has done a fabulous job promoting the game of baseball.  So for that reason I wish them well.

meant to add that we were, at best, a mediocre USSSA major team. But, then again, we also had no geographical restrictions.

The 12U Cal Ripken World Series is much more competitive than LL I think.  But to watch them I had to pay for the cable service. As a side note my son won the CR 10U national championship in Colorado in 2009.  The 10s only go as high as nationals.  

That was in Lamar, my new home town (moved there a little over a year ago. I was also at that tourney, but with the team from Bryant, AR.

Wow talk about a small world. Yes Lamar, nice little cow town. One of my best baseball memories with my son. We were playing with West Raleigh NC, we beat Connecticut for the championship. Outstanding baseball.  Good luck to you in your new home.

       
       
The SE champions last year were made made up of some of the top players from three or four of the top travel teams in the area. Every kid on that team but one played USSSA majors or AAA. It can't be a coincidence that the only team which I'm familiar with the kids is the only team with players like this. I doubt the players would have trouble with the uber advanced baseball with open bases and everything. I know two of the kids on that team that never played a lick of LL until that season to try and take a shot a Williamsport. They had always played travel. On of those kids that plays at the same academy as my son has a USSSA ring for every finger and said nothing compares to Williamsport. I'm pretty sure the top teams at Williamsport wouldn't have much trouble at any USSSA tournament.

I'll agree with Scotty.  Once the world series starts I do see kids who can play real baseball and can be competitive in their age group in any league.  I just can't get past when I see a 12 soon to be 13 year old playing on a field meant for 9-10 year olds.  Anyway God bless LL, they've done a great job for kids all over the world.

I have no dog in this dilemma since my son is too old but I remember when the age was changed to April 30 and had to argue at our local baseball board that we should allow boys to play up if they want to so they could play with their grade. I won that argument and my son along with others got to play where they belong.

There has got to be a way that that they could have kept the 04/30 DOB and then also use grade level to keep 13 yr olds from playing. Maybe even move the date back to July or Aug. Maybe not, but it is not fair, IMO, to break up a grade of boys playing together. January 1 is just an artificial date and doesn't follow school years in any form or fashion.

Isn't it more accurate to say whatever age you turn on your birthday this year is your "baseball age"?...like USA Baseball does it.

If you are used to real baseball LLWS is hard to watch. They do a good job of marketing the whole event so you know someone is making money. But when a 13 year old 200lb. 6 foot pitcher doesn't hold the runner on because they don't even lead off its not good baseball to me.

        Their losses were by 5 runs, 3 runs, 2 runs (twice), and 1 run. Where exactly are all the "drummings"?

In the 9-15 age groups the May babies have the advantage they turn their age 6 months before everyone else. That advantage drops off during high school and beyond when the rest of the kids catch up in their size and maturity.  My son just turned 16, those may babies who were huge 3-4 years ago no longer have the advantage they once had. 

 

Agree with redfish, moving the dob further to aug/sept may make it better. By not giving the may babies the advantage of being 6 months older.  

The funny thing about this is that when little league was founded in Williamsport 75 years ago, the Jul. 31/Aug. 1 cutoff was chosen specifically because that was the school cutoff in that area at that time -- i.e., the little league cutoff was designed specifically to keep kids in the same grade playing each other. Now that doesn't even seem to be a consideration for LL.

 

My younger son is one of those 2006 kids who are being pushed up. I couldn't care less (he'd be playing up anyway), he doesn't know or care, and generally I think it is a good idea to have LL fields restricted to 11 year olds and kids just turning 12.

Not 12 year olds. 

 

 

I watch the LLWS, but, yeah, I yell at the tv especially when watching a 6' 2" / 195 lb kid throwing 70mph from 46'. Of course he's dominating. I assume they will eventually transition. The distances made sense forty years ago when LL age was typically a kid's first experience with organized ball and they were still learning all of the intricacies of the game. However, today, by the time a kid is 12, he's most likely in his sixth or seventh year of organized baseball. Time to move on to big biy baseball.

I'm fine with the new LL age. My son played LL until he was a 12u, unfortunately they were never able to get out of their district. He wanted to experience that, even at the expense of missing some travel games. He loved it and I'm glad that he had the opportunity.

Now if we could only fix the whole grad year thing, so that my 2017 15 year old would play with kids his age instead of so many 16, 17 and 18 year old 2017's. There are so many kids that will start college at 19 and 20 that it is laughable.  It's bothered me at times, but my son could care less. All it's done for him is force him to constantly face older players. Personally, I believe it's part of the reason that he was able to make and start on the HS varsity team as a freshman. First one in almost 20 years of the HC's career. It drove him to beat out sophomores, juniors and seniors last year and it will do the same should he be fortunate to play in college.

One thing to remember that even though most LL players are from the US it is an international organization.  School years are different all over the world - not everybody is off of school during June, July and August.  Many other organizing bodies follow what is now LL age rules like USA Hockey.

 

2015 will be my 10th season as LL board member in my town - my one child (son) has been playing full-time Club baseball since 2012..  I was President for 3 years (2 of which I had no child in the league) and am very proud of what we have accomplished in our town with LL.  It builds baseball and community.  I love nothing more than going down to our main fields on a Friday night in June seeing hundreds of people enjoying the two games being played.

 

 

 

Yes, that's much more accurate.  Thanks 

Every year a thread here morphs into "my travel team could beat your LLWS team" 

 

So what - as someone said it is apples and oranges. I like that they are moving the age down a 1/2 year this is a good change IMO. 

 

LL does more than any organization to promote and develop youth baseball. At it's core it is a community based organization and not only develops youth baseball but also helps develop stronger communities, as does other local community based sports such as local basketball and soccer leagues, etc. Frankly my fondest memories of my son playing baseball go back to his LL years playing with all of his local friends and their families. I still have friends that we developed in those years that are irreplaceable. Two of my fondest stories about my son playing ball are from LL T-ball. Thank God for LL baseball. 

Every year a thread here morphs into "my travel team could beat your LLWS team"

 

Every year it's a new crop of chest-puffing dads who too ignorant to realize that it's ridiculous to compare teams with geographical restrictions to teams without them.

 

 

Don't know about other areas, but most of my son's teammates on his travel team got their start in "Little League".

 

BOF - spot on!

I wish my 2016 could have played LL.Weather you agree or not its like playing for your local HS.I played at belmont LL in Il. At that time it was at the top or right there at the top of LL programs in my state.During all stars it was your 1st real chance to go up against some of the same kids you would play against all thru H.S.It was not only great for the kids the parents took real pride in "thier boys".Nothing like those early tourney games when Belmont plays either Rivals LL team.The place was pack.Standing room only.Which only reinforced the us vs them sort of thing.Same rivals is gone.Too much travel.While I don't want to hijack thread I doo believe a good aurgument could be made about the quality of baseball players that came up thru LL vs. other ways.While pro players now are for sure in better physical condition.With other factors as 30 teams vs. what 24@ 1980(just a guess)I think the baseball players were just a cut above now on the average going back to say above date.When you get away from the bigger cities LL was a kids first taste of our town Vs. your town which is another level above my turn thru LL.I know things never stay the same and progress rules.I just feel there are alot of other factors that really hurt LL other than weather its 50ft or 54 or weather the base pathes are 60 or 70.Just me thinking

I like the idea of no 13 year olds.  From age 12 to age 13, or one grade/class to the next, there can be a tremendous amount of growth both physically and athletically.

 

I love Little League Baseball.  I also love travel baseball at that age.  It is all great IMO.  Not sure how anyone can love baseball and dislike Little League.  Perfection doesn't exist at any level of baseball.  Those that promote the game should be applauded and Little League might promote the game as well as anyone.

 

I once saw a 6'2 12 year old pitching and he topped out at 84 mph.  This was in travel baseball, but even at that, I was genuinely worried about the little kids he was facing.  They were unable to react to his pitches.  One of the first things I thought of was, what would this look like on television if he were in the LLWS.  What would 84 mph translate to comparing it to normal distance?  Anyway, he was pretty much impossible to hit and extremely dangerous IMO.  I did hear that he also was on the 15U team, but they put him on this team for a tournament.

I believe it was Sidd Finch's kid.

I was told that Dylan Bundy also threw in that range at 12-13 years old. As an 8th grader he was upper 80s.

It's not LL that is screwing things up. It's parents who think the future for their child is in him making to the pros. Therefore we have the explosion of travel baseball which kills the joy of playing the game a lot earlier. I've watched travel ball player, after travel ball player quit playing because they are burnt out. I can tell you from our LL the 12 boys who left at 11 year olds to play travel full time only three are still playing.

 

Personally, I liked the fact that my son didn't advance to the regular size diamond and game until he was 13. At 11 and 12 years old boys are just learning how to throw not pitch. They don't need all the distraction of a runner on base. They need to learn how to pitch and this is the perfect time to do it. Then at 13 open the game up to more.

 

I think LL has done things right. Protecting the players and giving them a chance to develop. Travel is killing baseball in younger kids because if you don't have the funds your kid will not be playing.

 

For what its worth, travel baseball below age 13 is ludicrous and a huge waste of money. The only people making out are the ones holding the tournament organizers.

 

 

 

I greatly enjoyed LL baseball with my two sons and, more importantly, they did as well.  Also enjoyed, and still do enjoy, travel ball with my youngest.  Things I liked about LL.  1. Closed bases for youth pitchers.  Let the 9 year old pitcher focus on trying to pitch without worrying about the batter on first stealing. (Not sure what the ideal age is for open bases.)  2. Team and community spirit and friendships. (Not to say that does not happen with travel ball as well.)  Meeting the same kids and parents at the same fields during the week and on weekends is something the whole family enjoyed and it was convenient to do so.  3.  LL allows for the full range of players, in terms of talent, experience, and level of committment to find a place to play and hopefully learn to love the game.

The overall popularity of any sport, at any level, can have its up and downs for any number of reasons. A strong case can be made that it is the casual fan of a sport or the fan that has an interest only because they currently know someone in the sport (at any level) that helps drive the popularity of the sport. Which is the same as saying the creation of the "causal fan" can indeed be at least part of the life blood of a sport or one of the driving forces to help the sport reach as high as it possibly can. Naturally this casual fan my be around for the short-term or long-term but the important aspect is the continuous creation of these casual fans. Of course there will always be the true fanatic (God luv'em), and the blowhards, and the "I can buy my child some talent", and the "mines bigger than yours" for the rest of us to laugh with or at. But in the end, Little League may have created (and continues to create) more of baseball's casual fans than any other org or activity. This includes both those that play and those that watch LL games. And if for nothing else, LL deserves a tip of the hat from anyone that cares or loves the sport of baseball.

Why throw travel ball under the bus?  of the 12 kids on my sons 11u team most are playing college or pro ball.  i have literally never seen a kid "burn" out who was a gifted player on an elite team.  I have seen kids whose talent didn't develop and their parents use the burnout word as a buzz word.  

Why do parents like to throw out the B word so often? If a kid has a change in interest is it truly the end of the world? If Bruce Lee quit playing ping pong to focus on karate, someone would say that competitive ping pong burned him out!

LL is not a year-round assoc. Great idea is to use player's current age when the season starts.  Other organizations that play year-round like usssa would seem to make more sense to use the Jan. 1st age cut-off. 

 

My young son plays in two assoc., and he has an April BD. One assoc. has an age date of 4/1 and the other 5/1. So in one league he is the oldest in the other the youngest. So, it does not matter what the age cutoff is those just under it will complain, and those just over it will be happy. This is a game....get over it.

 

 

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/st...estions-chicago-team

 

LL looking a little deeper.

Isn't this the same reason chinese taipa was stripped of some wins too?

I think that was a team from the Phillipines you're thinking about. Not only outside of their boundaries, but also had quite a few kids that were too old.

Late 70's early 80's time frame?

Zamboanaga City, Philippines won the 1992 title and was disqualified for ineligible players.

In 1993 a Taiwanese team and the Dominican team were both disqualified before the LLWS started for the same reasons.

just another in a long list of LL BS. The Tainey Dragons were the subject of much controversy in PA as well...the "charter" used apparently had been dorment and included the entire city of Philadelphia...then a travel program called something or other (worst part is I know the team and can't think of the name) picked it up and hey look we are now LL...lets go to Williamsport!! Tainey was not LL team - it was all BS as much of LL is.

"It's not LL that is screwing things up. It's parents...."

 

Parents can absolutely cause problems.

 

But Williamsport is, IMHO, populated by the masters of officious intermeddling.  Like Catbert in the Dilbert strips, they seem to take pleasure in making rules just to prove that they can -- rules that enhance no interest, just present obstacles.  I have taken issue in particular with certain rules that presented safety risks.  No debate allowed, no complaints heard, this is how it'll be, the end.

 

The other thing they've done is sold the entire program down the river, sacrificed on the altar of TV dollars generated by the August World Series.  Everything revolves around an event that a fraction of a percent of the players ever have hope of participating in.  In our area, the regular season is over when school lets out, and playoffs end soon after -- all so that the few all stars can play. 

 

You can say that travel ball is killing Little League, and there may be some truth in that.  But to me, Little League's failure to serve its target clientele is driving people out of Little League and into travel ball.  Because travel ball is flexible.  No matter what your goals are, you can find a program that matches up.  In response to which, Little League gripes about how everyone abandons them.  You may as well be the horse-and-buggy makers complaining about that Henry Ford guy.

 

Sometimes I think people go to Wiliamsport in hopes that, if they make big enough nuisances of themselves, maybe they'll get the call to the big leagues -- and land a job with the NCAA.

Land a job with NCAA....now, that's funny!!!!!!!!

Man did Midlo nail it. I had the distinct pleasure of being part of a Little League "development committee" for 50/70 in 2012. We were part of numerous conference calls, meetings, meetings about the conference calls, Facebook presentations, etc etc etc. Reality is no one in Williamsport wanted to hear a thing, they were doing it their way - period. I was representing Orange County CA, where travel ball is certainly king yet dozens of kids my sons age wanted to stay in LL for the social aspects of the game & then move into travel ball come summer. It was a nightmare I'd prefer to not re-live, and our league alone lost 27 families (including us) that would have been paying customers for 50/70 because of the archaic way the district & Williamsport wanted to do things. At the beginning we suggested that the 50/70 fields & rules may actually be better suited to the Majors division for the 11's & 12's - that was shot down practically before I finished saying it. Why? "Because then we'd have to modify the fields in Williamsport and thats not happening." So as Midlo points out, what may be best for the survival of the league as a whole is shot down due to a tournament that 1/10 of 1% of the kids get to participate in?

 

Going back to the OP - Williamsport will spend months & months discussing 50/70 rules about a players ability to have a sticker on his helmet, but it wasn't until NOW that someone decided to get serious about the Chicago boundary issue? There was no way to do that between sign ups in Dec / Jan and the World Series in the summer? Seriously? Last time I was on a LL board we checked & verified residency on 350+ kids in 2012 in about three weeks, how hard can it be to do ONE team???

 

 

Monarchs

Going off topic but just saw on the local news here in Chicago that Williamsport is investigating the Jackie Robinson national championship team for residency violations.

It'll be sad if the Chicago team is stripped of their national championship because adults played fast and loose with the residency rules.  I know many in our local LL grumble about the verification process, but I'm glad our local LL board takes the time to verify correctly.  Nothing against LL or the kids, but it seems adults/parents are the problem - not the players.

I'm surprised that Williamsport is not being labeled as racist. 

Any new, news from this story? Why would LL be labeled racist?

This has been going on for years, with the full knowledge, and oftentimes tacit approval, of the Little League hierarchy.  I have seen it up close and personal.

 

 

I don't believe Williamsport is racist but since the team that is being investigated is all black I'm surprised that the naacp hasn't responded.

.My last year coaching in town (we played pony ball at the 12u here) I sat in meeting with adults who had actually come up with a plan so that the all star team could have 1 more real good 12u player.Couldn't believe it.Thankfully plan wasn't allowed to move foward.Tho one of the culprites is now an assistant at the H.S.

 

There's a link in the other thread that covers many of your questions.

 

It seems that JRW LL redrew their league lines to include players who otherwise would have to play All-Stars in bordering leagues.  JRW LL failed to get the bordering leagues to agree to the changes and submitted the "revised" district boundary as "official" when the redrawing had not been agreed upon.  It appears that quite a few players were just out of the original boundary lines - some were in a development that was not within the league's boundary, but bordered the league.

 

It also pointed out some questionable addresses were uses as "residence" where the parents owned multiple properties with only one within the league boundary - whether they actually resided there was questionable.  Or addresses of relatives were used as the parent's address.  

 

They did not address whether the players had actually played the minimum number of games during the regular season prior to All-Stars.

 

Link here:

 

http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago...burban-league-claims

They stripped the Chicago team of the title today. To bad the kids are made to suffer the consequences for adult behavior.

Not baseball but I thought.....2016 football team played into state semi-final (chi. area) we played against a "Charter school.There are no boundrys with charter schools.Why/how are they not playing using the multiplier as the chatholic/private schools use.Anyone ran across this?

proud - what class?  8A? I think we may have lost to the same team the week before you guys saw them.

 

<edit> Though now that I think about it if it were 8A there would be no room for them to go up.

Just another example of why a "World Championship" for 13 year-olds is a bad idea.

No 4A.Look I'm not saying anyone cheated to win.I just think this could be a big problem no one sees coming with charter schools.Also I do think charter schools are viable options in horrible situations.But theres no boundries.If you can show up on time everyday you're in.Where most charter schools are at they can draw from close if not over a population of a million.Thats a very large school distict.

I get this arguement a little....but I feel worse for all the teams that the Chicago team beat on their way to Williamsport who lost a chance to play in the LLWS because they played a team that shouldn't have been there.  The Chicago kids got to play and experience the LLWS....whether they keep a trophy or not really doesn't matter all that much.

I hear you, sorry, didn't meant to say you thought they were cheating.  I've often wondered about the magnet/charter schools myself.  How does Simeon become a basketball powerhouse year after year when they are a magnet school.  You can't tell me they are not out there looking for players.  

I had a funny conversation with the parent of a catholic school kid a few weeks back at one of our practices.  Its a school that is know for recruiting in football.   We were discussing the IHSA playoffs and he kept insisting to me that the public schools are out there recruiting too and that they private schools are being punished for doing the same thing.  

Nevada coach (now US LL champions) is a class act.

 

http://espn.go.com/chicago/sto...nship-suspends-coach

Jess "the race pimp" Jackson is in the middle of it.

Had Taney won the LLWS they might be the story today. There were a lot of accusations about them the district and the region refused to investigate.

 

This story is deeper than one league cheating. Nevada didn't get to celebrate their victory on the field and the following days. Indiana didn't get to celebrate winning the region. Neither did the Illinois state, section and district runner ups. Also kids from JRWLL who were legal were cheated out of an all star experience.

http://www.click2houston.com/n...ting-ruling/31221056

 

Buckeye and RJM called it!

As someone interested in creating interest in baseball among the inner cities and African American youth, this hurts.

 

I actually knew the team from Chicago was a combination of talented young kids, some from travel ball, I never thought there was a problem.  Then what they did was great for promoting the game.  Now it might have the opposite effect and I for one think that is a bummer.  Seems like all of this should have been avoided much earlier in the process. 

 

I don't know all the particulars involving these players. Apparently they were the right age, so it's not as bad (in my mind) as the Almonte case.  I am fairly close to some people that were indirectly involved and know that several of these kids live in poverty. 

 

It's just to bad that this had to happen.  I feel bad for everyone involved including the teams that lost because of it.  If LL has rules they need to enforce those rules long before a half of a year after their nationally televised event is over.  Why did it take so long to find out where someone lives?  And in this case it wouldn't surprise me if some of these kids lived in more than one location. Just for safety if nothing else.

PG They extended their boundaries to include other area LLs kids.  This is a big no no in LL land. I live in IL somewhat close to where this league is. I tried for years to have our boundaries changed but was shot down multiple times.  

 

They had the district president involved so there was collusion in a cover up. In addition there are also suggestions that some of the other kids registered at their relatives addresses and not the actual address. A few of the kids don't goto school in the city. Though this could be related to the poverty condition as IL allows you to pick your school if you are homeless.

 

im not sure why it took so long for LL to come down with a decision. I have been hearing about this and an ongoing investigation in local baseball circles since right after the tourney ended. I'm theorizing that LL did not want to do anything as this was a great story. I think their hand was finally forced by the publicity. 

 

Its  a shame as there are a lot of people hurt in this on all side due to the actions of some adults who dont want to follow the rules. 

while what you say may well be true it is no excuse. they cheated...they cheated the system, they cheated every other team in the section, state, region, it seems very obvious that at least some if not many of the parents (not coaches) knew what was going on, the kids aren't stupid they know darn well what the boundaries are (at least many of them) and if a kid lives anywhere near them...there is no shame in feeling bad for the whole situation but that group of coaches, parents, local and state reps knew waht was going on. I don't doubt there were inocent people caugth in the mix but it would have been damn near impossible to keep it from everyone.