Did anyone see that SoCal play last night. Those were some awesome hitters. Three opposite field homers and the commentators said they have a pitcher throwing 82. WOW! BTW Toms River is back!
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I didn't see SoCal, but I did watch two other Regionals over the weekend on ESPN. I was SHOCKED at the 100+ pitch counts and the number of curve balls. What are they trying to do to these kids!! I guess that winning is the only thing that matters....
SoCal has couple of mashers and look real tough having demolished everyone in the West regionals...Toms River plays Penn tonite (ESPN2) to get to Williamsport.
All the pitchers in the West Region championship were throwing a lot of curves. RBV was pretty clearly a travel team playing in LL. The kid they said could hit 82 had the beginnings of a beard. Just wait until next year when the kids playing in the LLWS are another 3 months more mature. Maybe they'll have someone hit 85 mph from 46'. One of these days they'll have one of these 13yo hit a twig of an 11yo kid with an 80 mph fastball and snap an arm on TV.
CADad
That will be entertaining...quote:Maybe they'll have someone hit 85 mph from 46'. One of these days they'll have one of these 13yo hit a twig of an 11yo kid with an 80 mph fastball and snap an arm on TV.
I think Little League is woefully behind the times.
Sure, I like watching the LLWS, but the field dimensions are way too small, and the playing rules are too contrived.
Little League Baseball is not really baseball, it is 9 oversized kids on an undersized diamond.
200 foot fences? Kids these days are routinely hitting pop flies over them.
Then, the whole game is geared toward having some man-child fireballer throwing 80 mph from 46 feet.
Fun to watch, maybe, for a week in August. But IMO Little League needs to change its rules or else it will dwindle as kids play other leagues that allow leading off and have reasonable field dimensions.
The entire 12U Little League experience is geared for an exciting ESPN broadcast. The downside is hundreds of thousands of 12 year olds playing a game that only pretends to be baseball.
Sure, I like watching the LLWS, but the field dimensions are way too small, and the playing rules are too contrived.
Little League Baseball is not really baseball, it is 9 oversized kids on an undersized diamond.
200 foot fences? Kids these days are routinely hitting pop flies over them.
Then, the whole game is geared toward having some man-child fireballer throwing 80 mph from 46 feet.
Fun to watch, maybe, for a week in August. But IMO Little League needs to change its rules or else it will dwindle as kids play other leagues that allow leading off and have reasonable field dimensions.
The entire 12U Little League experience is geared for an exciting ESPN broadcast. The downside is hundreds of thousands of 12 year olds playing a game that only pretends to be baseball.
The kids playing LL are still working on their skills and getting better. Some of what I am reading here seems a bit exaggerated. I watched some of the weekend's action on tv, and only saw one pitcher throwing in the mid 70s.....the majority were in the 60s......one game I saw had a 3-1 score......the field dimensions didn't seem to matter.
I was impressed with the California kids and their approach at the plate.
I don't know why 'baseball' people have to knock LL baseball. My son is 20 and played in LL......it did not detract from his knowledge of the game nor his baseball development.
I'm sure the same can be said for millions of kids.
I think we should applaud these kids for what they are doing and accomplishing. Sometimes I just sense that some people have to knock somebody else in order to make their own organizations/programs/kids look better.
Relax, it is 11-12 year old kids playing baseball. Would you rather have them do something else?
I was impressed with the California kids and their approach at the plate.
I don't know why 'baseball' people have to knock LL baseball. My son is 20 and played in LL......it did not detract from his knowledge of the game nor his baseball development.
I'm sure the same can be said for millions of kids.
I think we should applaud these kids for what they are doing and accomplishing. Sometimes I just sense that some people have to knock somebody else in order to make their own organizations/programs/kids look better.
Relax, it is 11-12 year old kids playing baseball. Would you rather have them do something else?
grateful,
Who's knocking the kids? It isn't their fault that the smokethrowing pitchers are almost always bigger and more mature than most of the rest of the kids. How big was that kid throwing mid 70s? BTW, mid 70s at 12yo is pretty amazing and the fact that some of the kids were able to get around on him was even more amazing. How big, and more importantly how mature is the kid who is supposed to be able to throw 80 but didn't pitch in the West Region championship game? He's the one with the beginnings of a beard.
The reality is that the kids playing all-stars with the current bats have gotten too large for the field dimensions.
On the other hand, I've watched several of the games and enjoyed them so there's certainly some entertainment value there. I'm just worried that with the age rule change that was pushed by LL the potential for having kids that are even more separated from the rest due to early physical maturity will determine who wins and loses more so than skill.
Even in our district where we had known who the best team was for a few years we didn't really know they were a Williamsport team until we saw that several of their players matured early. It is hard to beat 8" of growth between 11 and 12 along with a mustache. The kid who is 5'10", 160 lbs and whose voice has changed is a lot more likely to be throwing low 70s than the kid who is 5'3" and 115 lbs whose voice will change in a couple years (I will say it takes a talented kid to throw low 70s at 12yo regardless). Some of their kids grew about an inch between 12 and 13 while ours have grown 3 or 4 inches. It'll be interesting to see how they match up in HS, although I think that overall their kids will be stronger even after our kids have had a chance to catch up as far as physical maturity.
Who's knocking the kids? It isn't their fault that the smokethrowing pitchers are almost always bigger and more mature than most of the rest of the kids. How big was that kid throwing mid 70s? BTW, mid 70s at 12yo is pretty amazing and the fact that some of the kids were able to get around on him was even more amazing. How big, and more importantly how mature is the kid who is supposed to be able to throw 80 but didn't pitch in the West Region championship game? He's the one with the beginnings of a beard.
The reality is that the kids playing all-stars with the current bats have gotten too large for the field dimensions.
On the other hand, I've watched several of the games and enjoyed them so there's certainly some entertainment value there. I'm just worried that with the age rule change that was pushed by LL the potential for having kids that are even more separated from the rest due to early physical maturity will determine who wins and loses more so than skill.
Even in our district where we had known who the best team was for a few years we didn't really know they were a Williamsport team until we saw that several of their players matured early. It is hard to beat 8" of growth between 11 and 12 along with a mustache. The kid who is 5'10", 160 lbs and whose voice has changed is a lot more likely to be throwing low 70s than the kid who is 5'3" and 115 lbs whose voice will change in a couple years (I will say it takes a talented kid to throw low 70s at 12yo regardless). Some of their kids grew about an inch between 12 and 13 while ours have grown 3 or 4 inches. It'll be interesting to see how they match up in HS, although I think that overall their kids will be stronger even after our kids have had a chance to catch up as far as physical maturity.
CADad.....you're right, nobody was knocking the kids.......just the game that they are playing.
I think it's pretty good to watch.
I think it's pretty good to watch.
So far I've found the games very competitive and entertaining. The fielding and hitting have been impressive but the pitching has been a little disturbing. Don't get me wrong, the pitchers are doing a great job, but what's with the coaches? Too many curve balls and some of the kids are being left out there too long! One kid started the bottom of the sixth leading 11-4 and got the final out with the score 11-10 and the winning run at the plate!Another kid pitching in the LA vs. ARK game almost decapitated the batter. I believe it was a 70 mph pitch off the bill of his helmet that sent it flying. An inch lower and look out!
It's amazing at some of the size differences in some of these kids. I could of swore one pitcher had a mustache going on when another kid is 4'8" and 80 lbs!
It's amazing at some of the size differences in some of these kids. I could of swore one pitcher had a mustache going on when another kid is 4'8" and 80 lbs!
I remember when Almonte threw. Does he still play anymore? Some of those kids have some skills, the Iowa team hit b2b opposite field homers off of a huge kid.
That is precisely my point - the entire LL organization seems to be run for one reason - to provide an entertaining LLWS on ESPN.
I'm sure they get a lot of their money from the television contract. Yes the games are entertaining.
But the downside is the hundreds of thousands of kids who are playing in a system that doesn't even come close to being as positive experience as it could be.
And that is why we are seeing more and more communities droppng their affiliation with LL and going with another youth baseball organization.
I'm sure they get a lot of their money from the television contract. Yes the games are entertaining.
But the downside is the hundreds of thousands of kids who are playing in a system that doesn't even come close to being as positive experience as it could be.
And that is why we are seeing more and more communities droppng their affiliation with LL and going with another youth baseball organization.
I don't find it entertaining to watch a poor kid throw 100+ pitches in the NW Regional. The manager was his dad for crying out loud. The only effective pitch he could throw to those 5'10" bearded behemoths was a curve ball! Very nice. You call this entertainment? I call it abuse... Over one hundred pitches and 50% curve balls. Would any of you allow that for your sons?? Come on guys, this isn't baseball, it's TV.
Good point Calloway,
Since when do 12 yo grow beards? Maybe one in a select select few but having 5 of them on a team, that's not right.
Since when do 12 yo grow beards? Maybe one in a select select few but having 5 of them on a team, that's not right.
Yeah I watched it too. Poor kid. Fastball wasn't even close to getting by those Hawaii kids. That one kid even hit a low away curve out of the park.
200 feet isn;t even close to being big enough. Why does LL do that?
My kid just played in the western regional LL for 14U, called "Junior League." They ended up two games from going to the world series in Michigan.
We looked at the park in Michigan where the world series is played - the fences are 275 feet.
That is too small for 14 years old. There are seven or eight kids who ROUTINELY hit the ball that far on not very well hit fly balls. My son hits the ball about 340 when he really grabs one, and while he is a very good hitter, there are plenty of kids who can hit it as far.
Why does LL want to make a joke out of the world series?
200 feet isn;t even close to being big enough. Why does LL do that?
My kid just played in the western regional LL for 14U, called "Junior League." They ended up two games from going to the world series in Michigan.
We looked at the park in Michigan where the world series is played - the fences are 275 feet.
That is too small for 14 years old. There are seven or eight kids who ROUTINELY hit the ball that far on not very well hit fly balls. My son hits the ball about 340 when he really grabs one, and while he is a very good hitter, there are plenty of kids who can hit it as far.
Why does LL want to make a joke out of the world series?
there was some kid i think from minnesota could be wrong, but he was 5'11 195 lbs. he could kick my butt along with my dads. He also almost had a BEARD. NO WAY is he 12. If you believe that you are in DENIAL(hope i spelt that right)
I saw the Hawaii game last night, too. Coach should be ashamed for leaving his son in to pitch when his pitch count was well over 100, he was not very effective, and I am sure there were some other kids on the team who would have liked to pitch on TV!
Also, I don't see it mentioned here, so maybe I'm the only one, but doesn't the strike zone seem HUGE? They have been consistent through all the games, so it wasn't an unfair advantage, but it seemed to get ridiculous. No wonder these pitchers are recording so many strikeouts...70 mph with strikes being routinely called 10 inches outside the plate at the ankles!
Also, I don't see it mentioned here, so maybe I'm the only one, but doesn't the strike zone seem HUGE? They have been consistent through all the games, so it wasn't an unfair advantage, but it seemed to get ridiculous. No wonder these pitchers are recording so many strikeouts...70 mph with strikes being routinely called 10 inches outside the plate at the ankles!
AK,
Yes Almonte does still play and he is very good too. He will be MLBer someday.
CADad,
Did you ever see the SoCal team in person?
Yes Almonte does still play and he is very good too. He will be MLBer someday.
CADad,
Did you ever see the SoCal team in person?
IrishDad,
The strike zone is typical for LL. I don't agree with it, but I remember that was the way it was when I played.
The strike zone is typical for LL. I don't agree with it, but I remember that was the way it was when I played.
mtownfan,
No I haven't seen this years SoCal team in person. They had a bit more of a struggle in the division tournament than in region which is typical for SoCal teams. I think that the region was stronger than usual last year. We've seen, played against and played with the kids from Conejo who represented SoCal last year. My guess is that this year's team may even be a bit stronger than Conejo.
JMO, but Almonte isn't close to being MLB caliber. He'll probably get a shot at the minors for publicity purposes.
No I haven't seen this years SoCal team in person. They had a bit more of a struggle in the division tournament than in region which is typical for SoCal teams. I think that the region was stronger than usual last year. We've seen, played against and played with the kids from Conejo who represented SoCal last year. My guess is that this year's team may even be a bit stronger than Conejo.
JMO, but Almonte isn't close to being MLB caliber. He'll probably get a shot at the minors for publicity purposes.
The strike zone is pretty big. If the cathcer sets up a foot outside and the pitcher hits the glove it's a strike. The framing technique of the LL catchers leaves alot to be desired also.
CADad:
Totally agree on Almonte. I doubt he will ever be a professional pitcher. As for the SoCal team, they are good every year. The key will be not them, but how the competition stacks up against them.
As for the LL strike zone, it is amazing anyone can hit with that zone. But the problem is not the zone, but the volunteer umpires who by and large simply are not very good compared to well-trained and paid umpires, along with the amazingly **** rules that LL has imposed over the years not for better baseball but for lower insurance rates to cover up for incredibly poor coaching.
Totally agree on Almonte. I doubt he will ever be a professional pitcher. As for the SoCal team, they are good every year. The key will be not them, but how the competition stacks up against them.
As for the LL strike zone, it is amazing anyone can hit with that zone. But the problem is not the zone, but the volunteer umpires who by and large simply are not very good compared to well-trained and paid umpires, along with the amazingly **** rules that LL has imposed over the years not for better baseball but for lower insurance rates to cover up for incredibly poor coaching.
Guys ....Been through Little League coaching for 18 years
The Team with the most players who have gone through Puberty will win
The Jolly Roger
quote:Originally posted by mtownfan:
AK,
Yes Almonte does still play and he is very good too. He will be MLBer someday.
Throwing 82-85 does not guarantee an MLB career.
RBV knocked out our team this year. They are extremely powerful. They will win every game that Pimental pitches...he is just too good. As long as they manage his innings correctly, they should cruise through everyone with the possible exception of Hawaii
As for sizes...we played 12U Cooperstown this year and there were a couple of "12U" kids who were 6'+ and plenty of facial hair. I think they dropped their kids off prioor to entering the field.
if i was a kid or parent on the idaho team and my son was a pitcher i would be P*SSED OFF. The manager turned a baseball game into a promo for his kid. You tell me there wasnt one kid who could have pitched besides his son. I would have taken him out in the first. Typical daddy ball.
little league is the way to go but it seems ridiculous to see some of these man-childs play that dominate on this small field. that one kids from So Cal hit 36 home runs in probly 30 games and he also can throw the ball in the 80s. we might have another danny almonte issue because this kid is by far the most powerful player ever in the LLWS.
half these kids will be nothing once everyone catches up to the physically. Half those kids are bigger than I am. If i was playing on a field that size i would drop bombs too. Who checks their birth certificates?
What seperates the RBV team from many teams is yes, 9 of their players play travel ball and are a very well coached and disciplined team. Their ace is pretty much untouchable and is a flame thrower. I watched them win sections here in San Diego and I knew then and there that they would go all the way. Very good team and they really do not swing at a bad pitch.
quote:Originally posted by mnblizzard30:
little league is the way to go ...
What does this mean?
If you are saying LL is a good option for above average players, I disagree.
Before I get bashed to bad, I understand the history of LL. I agree there are many very good athlete's playing LL and this is nothing against them. That said, IMHO it's entertaining to watch, but as my son said, it's not baseball as we know it. He cringes when kids can't lead off, pitchers don't have to throw from the stretch and catchers don't have to catch 3rd strikes.
Danny Almonte throws mid 80s with a good curve and change. In his freshman and sophomore seasons on VARSITY he was 22-2 with an ERA under 2.00. As a sophomore he pitched a shutout in the City Championship. He also had two no hitters. Those numbers sound good to me just because he doesn't have ML speed he is getting batters out. BTW he also batted .500 as a sophomore.
quote:Originally posted by mtownfan:
Danny Almonte throws mid 80s with a good curve and change. In his freshman and sophomore seasons on VARSITY he was 22-2 with an ERA under 2.00. As a sophomore he pitched a shutout in the City Championship. He also had two no hitters. Those numbers sound good to me just because he doesn't have ML speed he is getting batters out. BTW he also batted .500 as a sophomore.
Mid 80's = 85, like I said.
I can show you HS stats that blow those away that didn't make it to MLB. There are plenty out there.
Almonte MAY make it but to say he will definitely make it is a bit of a stretch.
redbird,
I know what you are saying. High school stats don't mean much and his velocity is not that good., but my point is he can get hitters out at any level Little League up to the majors I think. In the LLWS he was playing against younger kids, but he was still amazing because of his movement and control. He is one of those guys who can flat out pitch.
I know what you are saying. High school stats don't mean much and his velocity is not that good., but my point is he can get hitters out at any level Little League up to the majors I think. In the LLWS he was playing against younger kids, but he was still amazing because of his movement and control. He is one of those guys who can flat out pitch.
mtownfan,
You seem to forget that as a freshman and sophmore he was as old as the juniors and seniors he was playing against. His results are what one would expect against average HS competition throwing up to 85 with decent control and an off speed pitch.
We had pitchers in our league who were quite effective overall with similar stuff. They were able to beat the league's weak teams and got hit pretty hard at times by the best teams. They didn't get drafted.
You seem to forget that as a freshman and sophmore he was as old as the juniors and seniors he was playing against. His results are what one would expect against average HS competition throwing up to 85 with decent control and an off speed pitch.
We had pitchers in our league who were quite effective overall with similar stuff. They were able to beat the league's weak teams and got hit pretty hard at times by the best teams. They didn't get drafted.
Next year is his senior season we will see what happens after that.
quote:Originally posted by mtownfan:
...but my point is he can get hitters out at any level Little League up to the majors I think.
A HS kid throwing an 85 mph and a breaking ball cannot get MLB hitters out consistently. There is quite a bit more to pitching at the MLB level than that.
Now...he may develop into a MLB pitcher but to insinuate he can get MLB hitters out now because he got LL and HS hitters out is ludicrous.
All 4 of my sons have played at RBV LL.Just a little bit of info about the RBV LL All-Star Team. Since we moved to our current fields (Mgr.Marty Miller was instrumental in having the Optimist Club build them)the total league average has been 20 home runs a season. Marty's TEAM this Spring hit 86! Pimentel hit 28 during the regular season to break Mitch Einertson's record of 23. Mitch went on to tie the Appalachian League record last Summer in Rookie League. Most of the boys on the All-star team have been playing at RBV since about T-ball, including Pimental. It's just been one of those magical seasons when all the stars in the sky line up at just the right time.
hey - I really look forward to the LL coverage - to me it is downright entertaining (the "chicks dig the long ball" theory)
that said, tho we did not play LL, a nearby town (Tallmadge) has a great and sucessfull organization - they have a WS title & have been to Williamsport regularly & recently - - - and have a TON of their boys and girls play in the program - that's very good
the downside is - LL rules & structure put their players way BEHIND -
by the time their -
pitchers actually pitch (per rules)
pitchers learn pick off/hold throws
infielders hold runners
runners lead & read pitchers
runners steal
OTHER NON LL PLAYERS THEIR AGE (14U) HAVE BEEN DOING THOSE THINGS FOR 5+ YRS
they used to call us for practice games to prepare for local tournaments & we had to match up -2 yrs age younger & tie one hand back to even it up
a few of their very best, hardest working LL players can sometimes catch up, but most others face a dead end before HS or beyond & that's kinda sad and a heck-of-a price to pay for playing in an organization who's just behind the times . . . but entertaining
JMIO
that said, tho we did not play LL, a nearby town (Tallmadge) has a great and sucessfull organization - they have a WS title & have been to Williamsport regularly & recently - - - and have a TON of their boys and girls play in the program - that's very good
the downside is - LL rules & structure put their players way BEHIND -
by the time their -
pitchers actually pitch (per rules)
pitchers learn pick off/hold throws
infielders hold runners
runners lead & read pitchers
runners steal
OTHER NON LL PLAYERS THEIR AGE (14U) HAVE BEEN DOING THOSE THINGS FOR 5+ YRS
they used to call us for practice games to prepare for local tournaments & we had to match up -2 yrs age younger & tie one hand back to even it up
a few of their very best, hardest working LL players can sometimes catch up, but most others face a dead end before HS or beyond & that's kinda sad and a heck-of-a price to pay for playing in an organization who's just behind the times . . . but entertaining
JMIO