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Sad news indeed. Good scoop Frank Martin.
What if they are found NOT guilty? Will Ray welcome them back and admit he made a mistake. I think it would be more appropiate to suspend them until the outcome of the trial and dismiss them if they are found guilty.
Fungo - maybe the boys have already admitted their culpability to the coach and hence the dismissals 
I agree however that dismissing just on the charges alone may be a hard thing to take back if the boys are indeed innocent.
I have sympathy for the parents in these situations. I am guessing they did not train their kids to steal when they were growing up. Many times kids make bad decisions regardless of how hard the parents try to raise them correctly.
Sometimes elite athletes think they are above the law. Maurice Clarrett is in prison right now trying to figure all that stuff out. These boys may also wind up in prison if these charges stick
I agree however that dismissing just on the charges alone may be a hard thing to take back if the boys are indeed innocent.
I have sympathy for the parents in these situations. I am guessing they did not train their kids to steal when they were growing up. Many times kids make bad decisions regardless of how hard the parents try to raise them correctly.
Sometimes elite athletes think they are above the law. Maurice Clarrett is in prison right now trying to figure all that stuff out. These boys may also wind up in prison if these charges stick
yes very sad
also the incident(s) were last week's news
anyone even casually following the Duke guys should have noticed that video security is everwhere now, esp on campus
players arrested
"AND $3,100 in cash from the USC baseball coaches offices, according to arrest warrants."
ouch, talk about biting the hand feedng ya
read carefully they note Tanner's reference is to athletic department policy violations ..quote:by cd: agree however that dismissing just on the charges alone may be a hard thing to take back
also the incident(s) were last week's news
anyone even casually following the Duke guys should have noticed that video security is everwhere now, esp on campus
players arrested
"AND $3,100 in cash from the USC baseball coaches offices, according to arrest warrants."
ouch, talk about biting the hand feedng ya
That stealing money from the baseball office puts a crimp in the playing time every time.
I'm not making light of a bad situation...but stealing..okay allegedly stealing...from the baseball office??? Good grief.
I do feel for the parents and hope these guys learn a lesson and make a "character U turn".
I'm not making light of a bad situation...but stealing..okay allegedly stealing...from the baseball office??? Good grief.
I do feel for the parents and hope these guys learn a lesson and make a "character U turn".
“I got enough details that certainly I feel comfortable in making a permanent dismissal,” Tanner told the South Carolina News Network SportsTalk in a regularly scheduled interview. “I know that it’s a legal situation at this point. ... But regardless of the outcome, they’ll no longer be a part of the program.”
http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/16937160.htm
What a couple of idiots! A third round draft pick and a future first rounder.
http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/16937160.htm
What a couple of idiots! A third round draft pick and a future first rounder.
I'd like to know what went wrong.
What caused these athletes to fall down this path?
What was it?
What caused these athletes to fall down this path?
What was it?
shortstopmom:
What was it? Easy money...in their eyes.
I would not be at all surprised, unfortunately, to learn that these two guys have a history of stealing stuff...they probably just didn't get caught previously.
If it indeed is the first time that either of the two has stolen other people's property then they suffer from their thieving eyes being bigger than their larcenous stomach.
It is real, real sad.
I also hope they make a character U turn...I just suspect that if they do, they had best choose a wide spot in the road with shallow ditches on both sides because it's going to take every bit of pavement available to get the job done.
quote:Originally posted by shortstopmom:
I'd like to know what went wrong.
What caused these athletes to fall down this path?
What was it?
What was it? Easy money...in their eyes.
I would not be at all surprised, unfortunately, to learn that these two guys have a history of stealing stuff...they probably just didn't get caught previously.
If it indeed is the first time that either of the two has stolen other people's property then they suffer from their thieving eyes being bigger than their larcenous stomach.
It is real, real sad.
I also hope they make a character U turn...I just suspect that if they do, they had best choose a wide spot in the road with shallow ditches on both sides because it's going to take every bit of pavement available to get the job done.
there really doesn't have to be an itquote:by ssmom: What caused these athletes to fall down this path? What was it?
among others, my son lived closely for 4 yrs with several top draft talents .. in their idle time they fished, played pool/ping pong & video games, they also worked on their cars, dated, and last but not least studied ... the same things they had ALWAYS done
NOT referring to the USC guys whom I don't know, but speaking about the pattern of others I know who got into similar trouble ... they (mis)behaved like they always had .. BUT back home their talent stood out and that trouble was able to be over-looked or covered up.
always hoping some take it as a wake up call/turnaround, but most often it doesn't happen ..
wake up calls are waay more effective at 5 yrs old
jmho
quote:I would not be at all surprised, unfortunately, to learn that these two guys have a history of stealing stuff...they probably just didn't get caught previously.
While I don't necessarily disagree, my question is how does a college coach find stuff like that out? If they were stealing stuff as high school students, then even if they didn't get "caught" by the authorities, I have trouble believing that someone didn't know they were doing it. How far does a coach go in checking out the character of his recruits as well as their athletic ability?
I hope that these young men do get their acts together, this event should not be an end, but a beginning.
I agree with Bee> They (possibly Fuller more than Chisenhall) may have had similar incidents in the past that were "handled" for them. Then again, they may have simply gotten away with things up till now.
Since this is a message board, here is my pure speculation on the incident since ssmom asked the question. It appears Fuller had a serious problem with stealing. Perhaps Chisenhall was his roomate and got caught up in the moment with Fuller on Spring Break. Why?
Some kids, and sometimes "coddled" athletes do not value other people like most decent people do because they have been placed on a pedastal above all us "lower level" types.
My gut feeling on this one is that there was possibly a stronger motivation that caused one or both of them to forget that they were looking at a much bigger payoff in a few years. Possibly drugs are an issue and the money was necessary to feed the habit. I can't think of any other reason to throw it all away Doing something like this for kicks makes no sense to me unless we are dealing with sociopathic individuals.
Since this is a message board, here is my pure speculation on the incident since ssmom asked the question. It appears Fuller had a serious problem with stealing. Perhaps Chisenhall was his roomate and got caught up in the moment with Fuller on Spring Break. Why?
Some kids, and sometimes "coddled" athletes do not value other people like most decent people do because they have been placed on a pedastal above all us "lower level" types.
My gut feeling on this one is that there was possibly a stronger motivation that caused one or both of them to forget that they were looking at a much bigger payoff in a few years. Possibly drugs are an issue and the money was necessary to feed the habit. I can't think of any other reason to throw it all away
quote:Chisenhall, a Newport, N.C., native, was selected in the 11th round of last year's Major League Baseball amateur draft by the Pittsburgh Pirates. In his senior year at West Carteret High School, he batted .574 with nine homers and 37 RBIs.
Fuller, a Marietta, Ga., native, was also chosen in last year's draft -- in the third round by the Tampa Bay Devil Rays. He earned 2006 high school All-American honors and played in the AFLAC All-American Classic.
Talk about throwing it all away with both hands....
I knew a couple of guys in college that were on full rides for basketball. Great guys/students, great parents, etc. They were caught stealing from the college store. Both lost the scholly. I asked one of them why.
Turns out they just looked at it as easy money and thought they were being smarter then everyone else.
Sometimes kids (sorry they are still kids) just do some really dumb stuff. Problem is they have no idea that this will affect the rest of their lives.
These guys weren’t arrogant or anything, they just did something dumb because they thought they were smart – sad to say the least!
Turns out they just looked at it as easy money and thought they were being smarter then everyone else.
Sometimes kids (sorry they are still kids) just do some really dumb stuff. Problem is they have no idea that this will affect the rest of their lives.
These guys weren’t arrogant or anything, they just did something dumb because they thought they were smart – sad to say the least!
it's really tough .. read not the "press" accounts, but Tanner's statement - they violated team rules and are no longer with the team (my paraphase)quote:by jl7: how does a college coach find stuff like that out?
ya basicly get that same line from hs coaches on down re guys in trouble -
each time the coach is hoping the player makes their turnaround with his next team and NOT wanting to destroy their career .. are they helping or hurting the player?
I'm sure I mis-understood your commentquote:by c-09: These guys weren’t arrogant or anything, they just did something dumb
from my dictionary (un-official and abridged)
arrogant : stealing $3100 cash from your coach
dumb: forgetting to pay for a dvd at Walmart
When my sons were recruited, our high school coach said he received calls from college coaches asking questions about character, background, home life, etc. Maybe a little "due diligence" should be in order, in addition to radar gun readings...
I think ClevelandDad is on the right track. So many times when a top level athlete gets in trouble, we find out it wasn't the first time and parents and/or school officials help get them out of trouble. If they don't go to jail, someone will pick them up and they will play again. And we will again reinforce the thinking that if you can play, nothing else matters.
JohnLex7:
If it was apparent that either of these two had a history of stealing then I'm guessing Coach Tanner would most likely have taken a pass on them.
It's been my observation through the years, being around youth baseball, that stealing, particularly from teammates or the baseball program, is not tolerated at all...and that is as it should be.
Other offenses that young men may be guilty of seem to be more tolerated. The young offenders usually get slapped on their wrist and hopefully they learn from their mistake. Not so, it seems, with stealing.
If, as Bee> suggests, that these two may have been given preferential treatment concerning possible past transgressions then it is abundantly evident the folly of letting them off the hook.
For certain, all of what I have said is merely speculation at this point regarding the past history of these two players. If it is true that either of these two have a past that involves this type of behavior and the adults around them gave them an all clearing wink-wink. Look where it ultimately got them...absolutely in the very place that no one ever wanted them to be!
Youngsters should know better and when their memory fades or gets clouded the adults in their lives should step in, be responsible, and get them back on the right path...even if it invoves some punishment and shame.
And speaking of shame...do you remember how powerful it used to be? It was effective and didn't cost a dime to implement.
It is my opinion that we have collectively, as a society, lost the powerful influence of shame. We didn't take a vote on it...it just happened.
What a shame...do you remember what I mean?
If it was apparent that either of these two had a history of stealing then I'm guessing Coach Tanner would most likely have taken a pass on them.
It's been my observation through the years, being around youth baseball, that stealing, particularly from teammates or the baseball program, is not tolerated at all...and that is as it should be.
Other offenses that young men may be guilty of seem to be more tolerated. The young offenders usually get slapped on their wrist and hopefully they learn from their mistake. Not so, it seems, with stealing.
If, as Bee> suggests, that these two may have been given preferential treatment concerning possible past transgressions then it is abundantly evident the folly of letting them off the hook.
For certain, all of what I have said is merely speculation at this point regarding the past history of these two players. If it is true that either of these two have a past that involves this type of behavior and the adults around them gave them an all clearing wink-wink. Look where it ultimately got them...absolutely in the very place that no one ever wanted them to be!
Youngsters should know better and when their memory fades or gets clouded the adults in their lives should step in, be responsible, and get them back on the right path...even if it invoves some punishment and shame.
And speaking of shame...do you remember how powerful it used to be? It was effective and didn't cost a dime to implement.
It is my opinion that we have collectively, as a society, lost the powerful influence of shame. We didn't take a vote on it...it just happened.
What a shame...do you remember what I mean?
Bee>:
Is there another copy of your unofficial dictionary floating around? I've got to get a copy of that one!
Is there another copy of your unofficial dictionary floating around? I've got to get a copy of that one!
quote:And speaking of shame...do you remember how powerful it used to be? It was effective and didn't cost a dime to implement.
It is my opinion that we have collectively, as a society, lost the powerful influence of shame. We didn't take a vote on it...it just happened.
What a shame...do you remember what I mean?
I remember Woody - classic post. Today it is all about Dr. Phil and Operah and not hurting anyone's feelings. It seems obvious to me that sweeping things under the rug can only make things worse - again, assuming things were swept under the rug. These kids may have simply gotten away with things up till now.
quote:by GW4S: Is there another copy of your unofficial dictionary floating around?
odd you should put it that way answer: yes & no - it's a memory now
me & a pal put alot into that book, infact it was his life dream ..
but Mrs Bee did NOT like being second fiddle to a book she so threw it off Tallahatchie bridge one night (she un-abridged it)
My buddy Billy Joe McAllisteer was pretty bummed & went in after it - maybe you heard about it
Mrs Bee is still around, but neither he nor the book has been seen since
that's my story & I'm stickin' to it
What are you speculating about? They were charged with crimes and dismissed from South Carolina. That's all you have to work with right now and all that you need. It's very sad for all involved and they will have to pay the price for their actions.
My first reaction pertained to Fuller. He turned down more than a half-million dollar bonus last June as a third round pick then allegedly steals money at USC. Confounding....
My first reaction pertained to Fuller. He turned down more than a half-million dollar bonus last June as a third round pick then allegedly steals money at USC. Confounding....
I agree that all we have is speculation on their pasts. I'd like to think this was an isolated "arrogant" decision on their parts and one they are going to have to live with for a long time. Hopefully it won't be swept under the rug. It's already cost them their college careers.
That said, what do you bet they still end up getting big bucks from a MLB team? Albeit after they've paid their dues.
That said, what do you bet they still end up getting big bucks from a MLB team? Albeit after they've paid their dues.
Frank, I don't know abou the big bucks, but they probably will get an opportunity down the road. They aren't the first individuals in baseball to do something horrendously stupid, personally costly and extremely humiliating.
As an optimist, I'm hopeful that they pay for their actions, learn from the consequences and get on track again.
As an optimist, I'm hopeful that they pay for their actions, learn from the consequences and get on track again.
ps- Bee did NO speculating 
and .. when I DO speculate I do it in a cup or out the windowquote:by Bee: NOT referring to the USC guys whom I don't know, but speaking about the pattern of others I know
Baseballdad1228:
FrankF is correct...the speculation is only about these two players' past...not the present charges.
FrankF is correct...the speculation is only about these two players' past...not the present charges.
quote:Youngsters should know better and when their memory fades or gets clouded the adults in their lives should step in, be responsible, and get them back on the right path...even if it invoves some punishment and shame.
And speaking of shame...do you remember how powerful it used to be? It was effective and didn't cost a dime to implement.
Wow,...couldn't agree more with ya Mr. Woodsman!!!
GREAT POINTS!!!
Worth a third posting, IMHO!!
*** *** ***
Lack of judgement and lack of character could be the it I was looking for earlier.
Such a shame ( there's that powerful word again!)....some people never realize what
they had, until its gone.
Hard way to learn,...very hard.
I too am with the group who hopes these boys have lived and will now learn.
Better now, than never if they want any type of productive future.
It all catches up with ya in the end. ( no punn intended )
Still,..such a shame.
Bee>:
C'mon Bee>...odd...gotwood?
Yeah...I'm familiar with the process...
So familiar, that in some cases I can not even bear to look!
Workers will use blowtorches to take down steel girders that survived the Woodrow Wilson Bridge demolition, and salvageable remains will be sold.
quote:Originally posted by Bee>:
...odd you should put it that way.
C'mon Bee>...odd...gotwood?
quote:Originally posted by Bee>:
(she un-abridged it)
Yeah...I'm familiar with the process...
So familiar, that in some cases I can not even bear to look!
Workers will use blowtorches to take down steel girders that survived the Woodrow Wilson Bridge demolition, and salvageable remains will be sold.
quote:quote:
Chisenhall, a Newport, N.C., native, was selected in the 11th round of last year's Major League Baseball amateur draft by the Pittsburgh Pirates. In his senior year at West Carteret High School, he batted .574 with nine homers and 37 RBIs.
Fuller, a Marietta, Ga., native, was also chosen in last year's draft -- in the third round by the Tampa Bay Devil Rays. He earned 2006 high school All-American honors and played in the AFLAC All-American Classic.
Just in the interest of accuracy...
Nick Fuller did NOT play in the Aflac All American Classic. He was/is very talented and the strangest part of all this is that he turned down quite a lot of money to play at South Carolina.
It will be interesting to see what happens to these two talented kids. It won't be easy for them!
Sad story for sure.
I'm also wondering why the baseball office has $3100 in cash in it? They do have banks in South Carolina don't they? When i was in college the baseball office usually just had old fungos in it.
I'm also wondering why the baseball office has $3100 in cash in it? They do have banks in South Carolina don't they? When i was in college the baseball office usually just had old fungos in it.
We can all say this or that about the situation but the bottom line is they were dumb. Do they not understand that they have video cameras all over a college campus including the dorms, office buildings, classrooms, outside light polls, etc... All the university had to do was go back and look at the video to see who the thiefs were. Let's hope that this will be a tough life lesson that these young men have to deal with and it will never happen again.
Who knows why they had $3100.00 in cash in the office but it was not their money and they should not have taken it.
Who knows why they had $3100.00 in cash in the office but it was not their money and they should not have taken it.
This is sad.
The crimes are even worse when you look at stealing from your team. Next would be stealing fron your employer.
Years ago there was a pitcher who came up through the minor league team in our city. He was paid over 1 million as a bonus. He was called up to the Jays and within a short period he was sent into oblivian. Stod money right out of the teams dressing room. I have never heard of him since and you never will.
How dunb is that ?
The crimes are even worse when you look at stealing from your team. Next would be stealing fron your employer.
Years ago there was a pitcher who came up through the minor league team in our city. He was paid over 1 million as a bonus. He was called up to the Jays and within a short period he was sent into oblivian. Stod money right out of the teams dressing room. I have never heard of him since and you never will.
How dunb is that ?
old fungos? per diem cash for a weekend road trip could be MUCH larger than $3100quote:by T-S: wondering why the baseball office has $3100 in cash in it?
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
...the strangest part of all this is that he turned down quite a lot of money to play at South Carolina.
It will be interesting to see what happens to these two talented kids. It won't be easy for them!
Reminds me of Smoak and Havens. Lots and lots of money deferred to play for Coach Tanner and his Gamecocks.
I agree that it won't be easy for these two talented kids...their baseball talent, unfortunately at this point, is of little value to them in extricating themselves from the serious mess they find themselves in.
And Skip...those old fungos...if they are in prime condition, vintage, and hold a fascinating story...they may be worth some serious dough! Just a guess on my part.
Remember Ruben Rivera? Maybe he was headed out anyway, but stealing from Jeter's locker sealed the deal.
Bee: The per-diem makes sense.
Perfect example why D1 programs should give scholarship players a $50.00 per week stipend so the kids can have spending money in their pockets.
I know that baseball doesn't generate as much money as D1 football or D1 basketball programs do, but since football and basketball provide the bulk of income to the athletic programs at most schools, it wouldn't be unusual for them to give kids a few bucks per week as spending money. All money coming from a common pot.
Poor choices, to be sure.
Who among us (have done things in college), don't regret that activity now that we have time to think about it in "our old age"?
I know that baseball doesn't generate as much money as D1 football or D1 basketball programs do, but since football and basketball provide the bulk of income to the athletic programs at most schools, it wouldn't be unusual for them to give kids a few bucks per week as spending money. All money coming from a common pot.
Poor choices, to be sure.
Who among us (have done things in college), don't regret that activity now that we have time to think about it in "our old age"?
quote:by BT-iL: Who among us (have done things in college), (we) don't regret
wow, that's a pretty wild statementsoo, you and many of your associates are fellons?? (rhetorical)
most of mine will come much later
Heck, who among us can even remember when we were young?