Quincy,
Who have you taught and where are they at?
You continue to speak of the folly floater...it was a great idea and Hamilton got a few guys out with it. But I know for certain that you have never batted against the folly floater and it is completely irrelevant to this conversation that I am trying to continue here to help Jon with his son and the approach to breaking balls.
I am not in possession of any Holy Grail, just information that has been passed down to me and that I have learned from actually playing the game and studying it. I learn something new every day, so if you want to call that possessing the Holy Grail, go ahead. I simply call it experience and education.
Have you ever played baseball Quincy? And if so, what is your experience level?
Throughout this thread I have tried to stay on the issue raised by Jon. While you were successful in highjacking the thread to attempt to denigrate others and boost your own ego, I tried to stay on topic.
You can share your experience and education without the 'extras' and be appreciated far more and taken more serious.
Quincy,
Are you saying that he should completely stop his swing and start over while the pitch is in the air? That is insane
.
You can share your experience and education without the 'extras' and be appreciated far more and taken more serious.
Quincy,
Are you saying that he should completely stop his swing and start over while the pitch is in the air? That is insane
.
Q,
If I have offended you I am sorry, I get passionate about talking hitting. I am all for staying on topic and being taken serious.
For you, I was just wondering what you experience level was?
I am no longer interested in getting into post battles with you. I'm glad that we both agree that we want to stay on topic, but IMO, some of your opinions need to be questioned because the bottom line in this post is that Jon's son needs assistance in his approach to breaking balls, and I feel that your opinions are a detriment to him.
I think its great that you want to help, as I do, but there has to be accountablility behind your theories, and from what I've read, I dont see any. That's why I ask you experinece level.
If I have offended you I am sorry, I get passionate about talking hitting. I am all for staying on topic and being taken serious.
For you, I was just wondering what you experience level was?
I am no longer interested in getting into post battles with you. I'm glad that we both agree that we want to stay on topic, but IMO, some of your opinions need to be questioned because the bottom line in this post is that Jon's son needs assistance in his approach to breaking balls, and I feel that your opinions are a detriment to him.
I think its great that you want to help, as I do, but there has to be accountablility behind your theories, and from what I've read, I dont see any. That's why I ask you experinece level.
Let it suffice to say that I was offerred some money at a time when money wasn't that great.
I felt that if I wanted to be traveling the country and being away from home for little money, I might as well join the circus.
.
I felt that if I wanted to be traveling the country and being away from home for little money, I might as well join the circus.
.
quote:Originally posted by beemax:
I'd like some feedback from the players or instructors here on how you approach the off-speed pitch (mechanically). How, physically, do you adjust if you're looking fastball? If you stop any forward (linear) movement to wait on the pitch, is it possible to restart some forward movement into rotation, or must you just rotate from a static position? Or should you forget rotation and just keep the hands back and try to make an arm swing the other way? Should you even try to go the other way with the pitch in this instance, or is simply hitting it hard somewhere the only realistic goal?
Seeing typical offspeed pitches, no matter what age is throwing them, allows no time to "reset." If you try to teach your kid this technique it will only hinder his development.
When I hit, whether its batting practice or a game, I am always looking at the pitcher, no where else. I focus on his shoes, his belt, the logo on his glove, whatever spot i can focus on that is, for me, 60 feet, 6 inches away. If i try to look at the shortstop, for example, now my eyes have focused on something that is not the pitcher and will have to re-adjust which takes time. When you have less than a second to react, time is everything.
As the pitcher gets his sign, I am focusing on the things I said before, I always finish at the logo on his hat. Why? Because that is 99% of the time, the closest point you can focus on with relation to where his release point is.
Now that I have my eyes completely focused on the pitcher, I wait until he is ready to realease to look at his release point. Since my eyes are focused in that area, I have the best chance to pick up spin on the ball. Curves usually have a 12 to 6 type of spin (or at least thats the idea behind them) and sliders have more of a side spin. Fastballs have a true backspin and changeups look to work off of the fastball, disguising themselves as one to get you out front in your swing.
The sooner I pick up spin, the sooner I can make a decision to swing or not. The sooner I pick up spin, the better hitter I will be because I will not chase as many bad pitches.
FOCUSING YOUR EYES ON THE PITCHER IS KEY! As Ted Williams states in his book, the first rule of hitting is "Get a good pitch to hit." Hitting is hard enough as it is, so the better he can be a pitch selection, the better hitter he will become.
As for the mechanics of hitting the breaking ball, its no different mechanically than hitting a fastball. The only thing that changes is timing. However, like I said before, if you can teach your son to hit the fastball and lay off the breaking ball, you will be going in the right direction in terms of development. And as Willie Mays said, "How do I hit the breaking ball? I hit the fastball first."
Some good advice in this post. I learned a few years ago listening to Tony Gwynn, that he always focused on the bill of the pitcher's cap and moved over to release point at the point it started to drop. I have found this to be very good advice. It allows you to have your eyes near the release point, but not really frozen on anything specific.
As far as what Jon should do with his son and offspeed pitches is this. Try to minimize your son's head movement and step to release of the ball on his toe and track the ball to contact point. Dropping his heel in time to get to a good solid contact position. For an 11 or 12 year old to get any off speed pitch to the plate it will leave the pitcher's hand going up first. The only recognition he needs to learn is the release points and then just track the ball. He can learn and practice the pitcher's release points while in the dugout or while on deck.
The advice from Ted Williams "get a good pitch to hit" is the best advice you will ever get. The second best is this, "don't get stressed out about strike one or two, you're not out until you miss strike three."
Perhaps it would be a good drill to have him stand in the box without a bat and try to see how quickly he can call out each pitch that I throw to him??
Jon
I think this would be a good drill Jon and sorry for not getting back sooner. I would have him holding the bat in his stance to make it as realistic as possible. I think any drills you come up with the idea of pitch recognition in mind is probably going to be good. Remember he's only 11, but if you can find a way to have fun with it go on ahead.
As you go along you can make each pitch into a situation (0 and 2, runner on second base, no outs for example). This way he can start to develop a thought process as to why the pitcher will throw the pitch and what counts to expect it in. For me, many 0-2 pitches are out of the zone as the pitcher is looking to strike me out (we can do another thread on two strike approach later) and they are usually offspeed. Just the opposite, 2-0 he should be looking for a fastball to hit hard. I'll stop before I go off on too much of a rant, but if you have more questions I'll be more than glad to help
Jon
I think this would be a good drill Jon and sorry for not getting back sooner. I would have him holding the bat in his stance to make it as realistic as possible. I think any drills you come up with the idea of pitch recognition in mind is probably going to be good. Remember he's only 11, but if you can find a way to have fun with it go on ahead.
As you go along you can make each pitch into a situation (0 and 2, runner on second base, no outs for example). This way he can start to develop a thought process as to why the pitcher will throw the pitch and what counts to expect it in. For me, many 0-2 pitches are out of the zone as the pitcher is looking to strike me out (we can do another thread on two strike approach later) and they are usually offspeed. Just the opposite, 2-0 he should be looking for a fastball to hit hard. I'll stop before I go off on too much of a rant, but if you have more questions I'll be more than glad to help
beemax,
Your involvement here will be greatly appreciated by many. Hope you find the time during the off season to post frequently.
You've brought up a few things already that IMO need to be discussed here. Hope these topics get discussed/debated/argued.
1 - 2 strike approach for one thing.
2 - Vision/tracking
3 - Mental side to hitting
Quincy,
Most players in professional baseball would have much too large of an ego to post here trying to help others for absolutely no gain. Perhaps we can all learn a thing or two.
beemax and deemax... Man, you sure can see the "Like father... Like son"! And in my opinion that is a very good thing around here.
Thanks again Doug!
Your involvement here will be greatly appreciated by many. Hope you find the time during the off season to post frequently.
You've brought up a few things already that IMO need to be discussed here. Hope these topics get discussed/debated/argued.
1 - 2 strike approach for one thing.
2 - Vision/tracking
3 - Mental side to hitting
Quincy,
Most players in professional baseball would have much too large of an ego to post here trying to help others for absolutely no gain. Perhaps we can all learn a thing or two.
beemax and deemax... Man, you sure can see the "Like father... Like son"! And in my opinion that is a very good thing around here.
Thanks again Doug!
PG
I am with you 100%---I am not sure that Quincy had the pleasure of knowing Doug---But I agree "Thankks Doug"
Quincy--- just so you are aware withnthese two young men I do not think ego's are involved !!!
I am with you 100%---I am not sure that Quincy had the pleasure of knowing Doug---But I agree "Thankks Doug"
Quincy--- just so you are aware withnthese two young men I do not think ego's are involved !!!
Now we are really talking hitting. To heck with this other nonsense.
As hitters progress the approach will progress or at least should progress. When my son was younger I taught him the look fastball adjust to off speed approach. As he has gotten older and much smarter at the plate he now makes the adjustment from pitch to pitch, place in the order he hits, on count, pitchers approach during others abs etc etc. He has had alot of success sitting on cbs and change ups in HS because that it what he normally gets in the strike zone. Most of the time when he gets a fastball its for a ball out of the zone and then the pitcher will try to get him on an off speed in the zone. Plus alot of HS kids do not have the kind of heater that keeps a good hitter honest. You can sit on off speed and still rake the fb. When the pitchers are better look for a fastball count and dont worry about being wrong just be ready to be right. If your sitting on an 2-0 count what have you lost if you sit on a fb and get deuced for a strike? You are still in the drivers seat at 2-1. Start the process all over again. One thing I have found that helps alot is to learn to hit the ball deep in the zone. This will allow you to see the ball longer and helps with pitch recognition as well as late movement etc. Too many hitters try to hit too early. Let the ball get deep. Of course this takes experience and it takes bat speed. It is the reason velocity is and always will be important for pitchers. It shortens the reaction time for the hitter. It forces the hitter to make his decision earlier. I guess Im rambling now but its nice to have people here that talk real hitting and reality. A hitter must trust his ability to get the bat in the zone after seeing the baseball - "Trust your hands" remember that one? Your son could be hitting the ball out of the pitchers hand so to speak. He has a predetermined swing thought process working. Bounce baseball at him. Skip them in. This will force him to watch the ball all the way in in order to make contact. Use the ladder drill. Drop the baseballs like soft toss from a ladder and tell him he can not hit it untill it goes below his waist. These are excellent drills. Good Luck
As hitters progress the approach will progress or at least should progress. When my son was younger I taught him the look fastball adjust to off speed approach. As he has gotten older and much smarter at the plate he now makes the adjustment from pitch to pitch, place in the order he hits, on count, pitchers approach during others abs etc etc. He has had alot of success sitting on cbs and change ups in HS because that it what he normally gets in the strike zone. Most of the time when he gets a fastball its for a ball out of the zone and then the pitcher will try to get him on an off speed in the zone. Plus alot of HS kids do not have the kind of heater that keeps a good hitter honest. You can sit on off speed and still rake the fb. When the pitchers are better look for a fastball count and dont worry about being wrong just be ready to be right. If your sitting on an 2-0 count what have you lost if you sit on a fb and get deuced for a strike? You are still in the drivers seat at 2-1. Start the process all over again. One thing I have found that helps alot is to learn to hit the ball deep in the zone. This will allow you to see the ball longer and helps with pitch recognition as well as late movement etc. Too many hitters try to hit too early. Let the ball get deep. Of course this takes experience and it takes bat speed. It is the reason velocity is and always will be important for pitchers. It shortens the reaction time for the hitter. It forces the hitter to make his decision earlier. I guess Im rambling now but its nice to have people here that talk real hitting and reality. A hitter must trust his ability to get the bat in the zone after seeing the baseball - "Trust your hands" remember that one? Your son could be hitting the ball out of the pitchers hand so to speak. He has a predetermined swing thought process working. Bounce baseball at him. Skip them in. This will force him to watch the ball all the way in in order to make contact. Use the ladder drill. Drop the baseballs like soft toss from a ladder and tell him he can not hit it untill it goes below his waist. These are excellent drills. Good Luck
Gamer did you make it to UNCC this weekend? I could not make it up I was going to try and find you if I did. Im hearing alot of good things about your son.
Thats right we played you guys at Wingate on Saturday but the field was wet so I think they did some kind of simulated scrimmage. We were at UNCC on Sunday. NO , I did not make it up this weekend. We are at Louisburg College Saturday to play those guys and then NC State the next weekend. I know what you mean. It can get crazy. I hope to see you soon.
