Low to mid D1 vs D2 Choice

This thread is 7 years old. Has anything changed from what was shared back then?

@Francis7 posted:

This thread is 7 years old. Has anything changed from what was shared back then?

Yes.  We’re now in a Pandemic.  Not trying to be a smart ass, but the ramifications of the Pandemic have changed many many things.

@Francis7 posted:

This thread is 7 years old. Has anything changed from what was shared back then?

Everything has changed. I would hate to be in a position today where my son isn’t a top ten round pro prospect or sure he’s a D3. Everything in between is up for grabs, conjecture and a lot more competition than usual. There aren’t as many slots as usual. If my son had gone through this I would have advised him to respond to the HA D3 interest he was blowing off.

I would advise when the offers come don’t take the D1 if it’s an outlier. It’s going to be very difficult for a marginal player to make a roster.

@RJM posted:

Everything has changed. I would hate to be in a position today where my son isn’t a top ten round pro prospect or sure he’s a D3. Everything in between is up for grabs, conjecture and a lot more competition than usual. There aren’t as many slots as usual. If my son had gone through this I would have advised him to respond to the HA D3 interest he was blowing off.

I would advise when the offers come don’t take the D1 if it’s an outlier. It’s going to be very difficult for a marginal player to make a roster.

This is extremely good advice.  And is exactly what my 2021 is planning on doing.  The only question now is whether he goes HA D3 or regular D3.

it is REALLY easy to fall into that trap that RJM illustrates above, especially as travel ball has evolved.  We see a ton of kids falling into that trap.  In most cities of 300,000 or more plus the surrounding area, there are a couple of big dogs, MLB Draft picks, SEC ballplayers etc... and inevitably, your son and mine grew up competing with and against those kids ... 

Just because my kid has hit singles off of D1 commits doesn’t make him D1.  Just because he threw out a MLB draft pick by 3 steps in some random game does not make him an MLB Draft pick

Its really really easy to see your son competing on the same field as the big dogs, put those Dad Goggles on and say “my son is almost as good as that kid”.  Reality Check:  he’s not.  Mine isn’t.  Yours isn’t either.

And even if he was “almost as good”... you know how many players fit that exact skillset as “almost as good”?  Thousands and thousands.

Power Fives aren’t looking for almost as good.

so anyways, rant over (for now)... go D3, get a great education, have fun actually PLAYING Baseball in college, (as opposed to sitting on the bench or being the bullpen catcher)

Last thing: if a kid really is as good as as one might think they could develop into and hits .400+ in college with HR’s left and right?  Trust me when I tell you the MLB SCOUTS will very easily find him, in D3 or a JUCO in Wyoming or anywhere

@3and2Fastball posted:

This is extremely good advice.  And is exactly what my 2021 is planning on doing.  The only question now is whether he goes HA D3 or regular D3.

it is REALLY easy to fall into that trap that RJM illustrates above, especially as travel ball has evolved.  We see a ton of kids falling into that trap.  In most cities of 300,000 or more plus the surrounding area, there are a couple of big dogs, MLB Draft picks, SEC ballplayers etc... and inevitably, your son and mine grew up competing with and against those kids ... 

Just because my kid has hit singles off of D1 commits doesn’t make him D1.  Just because he threw out a MLB draft pick by 3 steps in some random game does not make him an MLB Draft pick

Its really really easy to see your son competing on the same field as the big dogs, put those Dad Goggles on and say “my son is almost as good as that kid”.  Reality Check:  he’s not.  Mine isn’t.  Yours isn’t either.

And even if he was “almost as good”... you know how many players fit that exact skillset as “almost as good”?  Thousands and thousands.

Power Fives aren’t looking for almost as good.

so anyways, rant over (for now)... go D3, get a great education, have fun actually PLAYING Baseball in college, (as opposed to sitting on the bench or being the bullpen catcher)

Last thing: if a kid really is as good as as one might think they could develop into and hits .400+ in college with HR’s left and right?  Trust me when I tell you the MLB SCOUTS will very easily find him, in D3 or a JUCO in Wyoming or anywhere

Great post. In fact, consistency is probably the key thing that most people don't recognize in terms of a predictors of how far a player can go. With pitchers, it's the difference between sits and touches. With position players, it's the same thing. Just because you hit .700 in a PG tournament once doesn't offset the other 3 PG tournaments where you went hitless and didn't get the ball out of the infield. Look at the kids who everyone talks about...he's getting at least 2 hits in 98% of the PG tournament games that he plays...and they are loud hits. 

 

My vote would be to go where you have a realistic opportunity to play. One comment said, go where you get the most love. If a coach really wants you and offers a decent % scholarship that school is going to give you an opportunity to play. You’ll still have to perform to earn playing time but you will definitely get the opportunity to show what you can do. Going to a top D1 is fantastic but you have to realistically evaluate your ability against others in that program.
It’s also very important to consider academics to insure that this school offers the sort of major you are interested in. You should also consider location. Attending a school close to home can be a big plus. The ability to have friends and family watch you play can enhance the entire college experience.

I competed in football and Track at a D2. My team went to a Bowl Game and I made the National Finals in my event in Track &Field. I had a wonderful college experience and in the end, that all that counts.

Have watch the teams play? What do your eyes see?
You know your ability then apply your knowledge

Bob

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 4, 2021, at 4:17 PM, HS Baseball Web <alerts@crowdstack.com> wrote:
>
> 

My Grandson will be going to one of the Top D2 Baseball schools in the West. The primary reason is, it's close to home, the Coach will be offering him a scholarship, and my Grandson likes the Coach and his staff. This is a Win-Win, with the added bonus of the family being able to attend most all home games and several away games as well. Hopefully he'll have a great college experience and, if he's good enough, he'll be able to realize his dream of playing pro ball.

Congrat! I am glad it all worked out. I am sure his school will be very pleased with his big bat

@Peach49 Congratulations!

Would like to add follow up to this....Started following this while my son was in High School and now he is in grad school.

So my son was contacted by several mid to Low D1's and D2's.  He had a lot to choose from, some close to home, some far away, some that had his intended major and others that did not.  He wound up making an informed decision based on some of the following:

School has intended or related major (Pre Med / Medical Technology not Biology - some baseball programs tried to steer him that way)

Total out of pocket school costs  (Costs minus Scholarships)  Note at some schools he received 50% scholarships that still left more costs than other schools total costs without a scholarship.  NOTE add baseball and academic to compare.

Program background:  history of rankings, performance, number of coaches, comments on message boards about that program.   I wish I would have seen more of these from parents / athletes prior to him committing.   First visit during fall ball saw 10 kids in slings.....Several had Labrum repairs, 2 TJ surgery and my son was a pitcher.  Initially did not seem good, however coaching changed the following year reduced that 10 to 1 or 2 and some of those were recruited in (previous D1 players coming off repairs)

Town school is located in - location from home, support from family (are they able to watch games), costs, etc

NOTE:  he did not evaluate playtime since coach may tell you one thing and reality is another.  I heard of 2 way players being told will play every day, with good scholarships and then redshirted right off bat.  Son's school had a 'highly touted' kid come in with full ride (baseball combined with academic) and didn't even throw Bullpens 1st year - was told go to weight room.

He choose a high D2 school.  This school had won a couple National Championships and he actually got to pitch in D2 World Series Junior year.

Why am I posting this?  There are a lot of factors that go into decisions.  Please do not allow "D1" to overshadow a critical decision.  The number of players that make the majors is not directly relatable.   I will add in 2020 Tampa Bay had a stud pitcher from a D3.   Think bout that.   He choose that school since it was the ONLY school that would accept him.

Think about the future of what happens if he plays all 4 years and is done.   What is his major, how much did it cost, what is his future?   The number of D1 players on every team vs those who get drafted is small, even smaller for those drafted to ever make it to the big leagues.  Yes - you will always hear of the one or two that made it, however you don't hear of the thousands that did not.

Have them enjoy their sport in College while earning a degree.  Dream Big, Shoot for the stars while being realistic in pursuing a college education that you can use when you're done.  Goal should be to get a degree while playing the sport you love during.....

Well said 2013LeftyDad, as I mentioned, the most important thing is for your child to have a positive college experience and come out better prepared for life in the real world. There are so many factors to consider, but #1 should be getting a good education. Choose a school that fits your child’s best interest, both athletically and academically.

2013LeftyDad - Thanks for coming back to this thread and sharing your sons experiences.  Lots of wisdom in your post.

A loving dad (who is a non-expert & big cynic) - I have a dilemma as to how to best guide my son..

My son is a (soon to be 17yo) 1B Junior.  6-4" 225lbs, broad shouldered muscular build, still growing, only runs 7.4 60yd but has EV of >105 and workable infield velocity of 85 with great overall defensive skills & baseball IQ..  PG & PBR both have him in top 10 (in STATE) for his position (top 100 in STATE overall) but STILL I have NO idea where he fits in - especially with the fun that's happened over the last year & the resulting recruiting quagmire..  

HE really wants to "play D1" which I think is largely an ego thing.  To make it worse, all his teammates tell him he's a D1 player ("cynical me" thinks maybe because they too think they are also D1, or, if he's not D1, then what are they?)  To boot, his travel coaches (who are all super awesome) tell us & him he's a D1 player too - which again, "cynical me" thinks maybe at least a part of this might be to be able to say their program produces D1 players (whether that means he's in the lineup at said D1 or not)  Don't get me wrong, he definitely looks the D1 part. He has been given the gift of a very athletic physique & he does work very hard & definitely can mash.  

But still.. he's not fast.   I'm telling him he should really consider a ±top-25 D2 & that he would probably more likely to have at least a shot to play from the get-go & still play good baseball & can definitely still keep his dream alive of playing pro ball of some type by getting on a great Summer team..  

I don't want to hold him back, or crush his dreams..  And in that he's somewhat of a late bloomer, maybe he has some tiny shot of doing something even bigger..  But - D1's are not exactly beating down his door.. & my gut tells me he's a low-mid D1 or a competitive D2 realistically and that he would have much more fun being a big hitter at the D2 than potential bench-master for at least a year (or more) at a D1..

I guess my biggest question is (besides am I wrong?) is, HOW DO I HELP MY SON SEE THIS?  There are some (top-25 D2 team) coaches that have shown strong interest & that he & I are soon visiting with..  Will/can they help him "see the light" and help "sell" him on the virtues of this path ?  

Sincere thanks!  😀

As a junior this coming summer is do or die time. Chances are the metrics he’s putting up now are what they will be this summer with the possibility of slightly better. Here’s the catch. A lot of college coaches don’t recruit first basemen unless they can absolutely mash. It’s a position they see they can place a hitter who didn’t win another position.

As a player you want to go where you’re loved. You don’t want to go where they’re interested and you’re really third string insurance. You’ve said he’s had strong interest from D2’s and not D1’s. The object is to get on the field, not just on the roster.

When it’s all said and done a player should be looking for the best possible academic and baseball experience regardless of level. Regardless of division level playing college baseball is an elite club. Ultimately, it’s about what doors does the academic experience open for the first step in a career.

Everything I’ve stated is without taking Covid and larger rosters in mind. Good luck.

RJM nailed it

@YachtRocker posted:

..............................................

I guess my biggest question is (besides am I wrong?) is, HOW DO I HELP MY SON SEE THIS?  There are some (top-25 D2 team) coaches that have shown strong interest & that he & I are soon visiting with..  Will/can they help him "see the light" and help "sell" him on the virtues of this path ?  

YachtRocker,

Print off 2013LeftyDad's post (above) and hand it to your son.   Watch him read it, and then discuss it with him.

99% of kids that want to play college baseball start off with D1.  If I had a $1 for every Dad that comes on HSBBWeb and tells the board that their son is "D1 or bust", I could retire and play golf for the rest of my life.   D1 is all these kids know, so they gravitate toward it as the NCAA does a great job of branding the D1 CWS.   As a parent, you have more life experiences even if you aren't an expert in college baseball.   Share those experiences.  I was a college athlete (tennis) and I shared my experiences with my son when he was being recruited for college baseball.   Two entirely different sports, but the principles are the same.  I thought he wasn't listening to me, but he heard every word.

If you hang out here enough, you know there are a few governing principles to follow.  The first principle is to go where your son is wanted and your son has a chance to get some college playing time.   This is a lot easier said than done...trust me.  35 players on a roster....9 position players and 9 or so primary pitchers, relievers etc.  So, 35-18=17.   17 people are going to see zero to very little actual game playing time in a season.  No only that, but the coach is not incented to keep those 17 bench players under scholarship or roster positions  the next year if they have any scholarships to give.  Those scholarship dollars are incredibly valuable to a Coach and he wants to put them to work.   

If your son genuinely thinks he is D1 material then possibly he should consider a JUCO where it won't cost him as much in eligibility.   As a late bloomer,  he could prove his value there then move to where he best fits.   Just a thought.    There are many threads about the JUCO path within HSBBWeb.

Good luck.

As RJM said, this summer is "the time" for him to get noticed.  When you say his travel coaches say he is D1 material....what are they doing to promote him to those schools?  My son moved to a well known organization the summer after his junior year in HS and it was unbelievable how quickly things started with regard to recruiting.  A lot of coaches at their games....and his travel coaches were calling him every couple days telling him they had gotten a call from a coach and wondered if my son would be interested in their school.   What has your son done to promote himself?  He should be emailing any and all schools that he has interest in.  Include a video if he has one....and definitely include a link to his PBR profile.     As for your worry about the 7.4.  That's not a problem.  My son was recruited as a PO...but played 1B and DH his senior year due to an arm injury and I'm fairly sure he wasn't much better than that.  Hit it hard enough and the speed isn't a huge issue....especially for a 1B.   Good luck to your son!

As a Dad of a 2021 kid (who is going D3, with friends he played with over the years who are going to every level from local JUCO to SEC), I’ve learned a lot of things

1) Travel Coaches say a lot of things.  For a lot of reasons.  A kid isn’t usually D1 material until D1 recruiting coordinators are practically blowing his phone up asking him to commit, come for a visit

2). The slam dunk D1 guys who have a good chance to play a lot are getting contacted by MLB scouts

3). There are a LOT of D1 kids who spend 4 years as the bullpen catcher, or never play, or get cut after one semester (including kids who played in the Perfect Game All American Game)

4). If you are a borderline D1/D2 guy, you are a D2 guy.  If you are a borderline D2/D3 guy, you are a D3 guy.  My son got polite replies from D1/D2 coaches, but D3 coaches came out of the woodworks to recruit him, ask him to come for visits, and admissions counselors of those schools offered generous academic scholarships, help through admissions with early decision etc.   It becomes super clear what level you are, based on the way the college coaches treat you.

Perhaps attending a couple of games of good D2 and D3 teams will show your son that the young men at these levels can really play.

@K9 posted:

Perhaps attending a couple of games of good D2 and D3 teams will show your son that the young men at these levels can really play.

Agreed!  Lots of great, great Baseball at those levels.

Many D2 teams have a large number of JUCO and D1 transfers on them, and if you look at the team stats carefully, those are the players who get most of the playing time.  If he is getting D2 interest, look carefully at the roster and at the yearly stats, to see what happens to recruited freshmen over 3-4 years.

I met a dad of one of our players a few weekends ago.  His son is a freshman pitcher who is beginning to get playing time.   He more than likely could have gone to a state P5 but he wanted to to play asap and not sit on the bench. So I am assuming that's why he is there.

The dad has a younger son who was getting lots of D1 attention. COVID came, and the NCAA handed out extra years and the phone stopped ringing.

Under advisement, his son accepted an opportunity to one on the better JUCOs in our state. 

My point is that with the situation the way it is, no one really knows what's going to happen next year or the year after, so if an opportunity comes along JUCO, D2, D3, etc TAKE IT!!!   You can play anywhere and earn your degree. Sit on the D1 bench or play. This isn't always true for mid D 1 programs.  But it seems like everyone wants to play on the P5 program. It's not as easy as you think to get playing time. Ask any parent of a P5 player.

My son was a coach at a D2, they had large numbers but also a JV team. They played great baseball and many get drafted out of this program.

I searched top P5 programs the other day and the numbers on the roster are incredible, 45, 48, 52! Are you kidding me?

You only need 9!  Do those teams put in substitutes regularly?  Seriously. Or do they burn eligibility? Search carefully.

Some of those teams had players who had no stats. Oh, ok, so they will get another redshirt year, but is this what your son wants?  Do you want to pay for 5 years of college? 

I am going to strongly assume that if a one time D1 transfer is allowed, many coaches will go after the transfers before ever considering a freshman.

JMO.

I like the idea of going to a good JUCO.  options galore....  IF you are a P5 stud and you know you are going to play....that's one thing... but if your a low D1/D2 guy.... maybe you are a later bloomer, a year or two at the JUCO, you might be a true Mid Major guy.  You get to play in the spring and fall.... no NCAA to deal with

@bacdorslider posted:

I like the idea of going to a good JUCO.  options galore....  IF you are a P5 stud and you know you are going to play....that's one thing... but if your a low D1/D2 guy.... maybe you are a later bloomer, a year or two at the JUCO, you might be a true Mid Major guy.  You get to play in the spring and fall.... no NCAA to deal with

Agree 100% and have been saying the same for years - on this board and to kids that I coach and advise. To me, the litmus test is level of interest from MLB scouts. If scouts are visiting you at home senior year of HS, telling you that you are on your draft board, then you are ready for a top 50 D1 program. If scouts aren’t on you, you aren’t ready. I think the power of social media, and how it seems to rule the lives of so many HS kids, plays heavily into the bad decisions that kids (and parents) make. There is nothing glamorous about JuCo and the kids all want the big splash on Twitter to announce the commitment to a big name school, thank everyone and #blessed. But for 90% of kids that’s the wrong decision as it relates to baseball. Like so many other things in life the solid way to go is not the glamorous way at all.

@bacdorslider posted:

I like the idea of going to a good JUCO.  options galore....  IF you are a P5 stud and you know you are going to play....that's one thing... but if your a low D1/D2 guy.... maybe you are a later bloomer, a year or two at the JUCO, you might be a true Mid Major guy.  You get to play in the spring and fall.... no NCAA to deal with

I'm getting the sense "knowing you're a P5 stud" is WAY different now than it was 2 years ago..  A lot of kids who fit the P5 archetype pre-pandemic are finding themselves with little interest now.. And maybe all these people telling my son he should be D1 just don't yet understand the ramifications of all the extra "inventory" of great players with this little covid extra eligibility thing?

And what do you mean "you get to play Spring & Fall".  We have the sense many programs do some Fall stuff with their team.

Lastly, would my Junior start now to identify & go after JUCOs in Spring of his junior year?   Thanks!

Hey All....wanted to add anther perspective that was previously mentioned and put some actual numbers to consider....

At my sons school (I can say this since he graduated long ago).

Pre-covid….High D2 School would list 50 to 54 players on the Roster.   That meant 12 players each year Redshirted.  I thought this was bad when he was playing.

COVID...Same school now has 60 players listed on the roster...  Everyone who was there in 2020 added extra year.  Now I don't know if that's only Seniors or EVERYONE is granted another year.  If Freshmen add the extra year as well, it will be 4 years until the pool gets back to normal.

Once season starts team can only have 40 on roster.  D2's can only travel a portion of that.

Put that into your decision on which school to choose....that WILL figure into PLAY TIME.

@YachtRocker posted:

I'm getting the sense "knowing you're a P5 stud" is WAY different now than it was 2 years ago..  A lot of kids who fit the P5 archetype pre-pandemic are finding themselves with little interest now.. And maybe all these people telling my son he should be D1 just don't yet understand the ramifications of all the extra "inventory" of great players with this little covid extra eligibility thing?

And what do you mean "you get to play Spring & Fall".  We have the sense many programs do some Fall stuff with their team.

Lastly, would my Junior start now to identify & go after JUCOs in Spring of his junior year?   Thanks!

In order of your paragraphs :

1: you are correct

2: JuCos play a fall schedule of 20 or so games and there are no limits on practice time. A player gets more work in.

3: Yes

@YachtRocker posted:

Lastly, would my Junior start now to identify & go after JUCOs in Spring of his junior year?   Thanks!

I see you're in the northeast. Harford CC in MD loves mashers. They're a pretty consistently good D1 program for this part of the country (yes, juco has divisions, too). If you don't have any good programs to check out in your area, take a trip down to get a sense of juco baseball. The campus is about 10 minutes off of I95 north of Baltimore. They have a beautiful small ballpark with a turf field. Suburban setting. They send guys to all levels of 4 year colleges. Where ever you visit, make sure your son tries to contact the coach in advance. I'm sure they would be happy to meet him and say hello, and possibly get a tour.

https://harfordathletics.com/s.../GEN_0222120709.aspx

How do JUCO's work with (present & future) academics?   Don't need super high but can after JUCO my son typically still transfer to a decent academic school that their high school GPA/SAT would have otherwise qualified him for - presuming he did great at the JUCO?  thx

My 2014 grad was getting interest from D2 and D3 out of HS.  He really wanted to exp. D1 baseball and a university.  TPM suggested that we look into a JUCO which we did.  The JUCO was thrilled to have him and we felt he would play as a freshman which he did.  Then after two years of JUCO and having good numbers and good grades the Mid-Major team started calling.  Mid Major team teams love JUCO guys.  They are proven and have that chip on their shoulder.  Mine went to Columbia State then to Tennessee Tech ( when Tech went to the Florida State regional and the Texas regional the next year. They were one game short of the the College World Series. 

He ended up graduating , getting married, building a house and is still in touch with his teammates.   Juco is a great way to go. It's cheap, it's fun, and can lead to bigger things.  After JUCO you can go D1, D2, D3, Draft etc....

Flip side, 2018 was getting offers from top 10 schools after his soph year in HS. Listed as a t op 200 in 2018 draft , currently pitching for Vanderbilt.   With Covid and the roster being inflated it is more important than ever to go to a school where you know you will play.  Ask the coaches, be blunt,  forget the hype, it means nothing.