Makeup - Acquired or Inherited trait?

I believe make up is developed over time...a long period of time. I don't know that there is any way to really change your make up once you are much further along than little league.

But this has the making of a good thread, good job playwitheffort!

I cant WAIT to see what woody does with this one. lol

It's both. Some are natural leaders / winners and some learn how over a period of time.

I think makeup is inherent. You either have it or you don't. However, "it" (intensity, desire, instincts) may not be directed at baseball from the start. Some kids start as very competive s****r players, skateboarders, monopoly players...whatever, but the intensity is there from the start. Or, it's not. INHO.

Like most dads, I watched my son's age cohort over 12 years or so, and it seemed to me that the boys didn't change all that much over that time.

The mentally tough kids in third grade were still the tough ones in high school. The kids who hustled, the ones who were laz, etc. - there didn't seem to be a lot of change.

I'm not saying a kid can't change his makeup, but it does seem like there is a pretty significant hard wired component.

quote:

Some say leaders are born and not made. Some say the opposite.

to me makeup and leadership are different. you may have a great leader with not so great makeup. makeup to me is more intensity, desire, instincts, a gamer.

20dad...I agree with your assessment, and it's a huge bonus when you get a Leader with Intensity, Desire, Instincts, and is a Gamer!

Its going to be very hard to lead if you don't have that. I don't know many players who are going to follow someone who doesn't have those characteristics. You can have great make up and not be a leader. I do not believe you can be a leader without great make up. No one is going to follow someone that demands from them what they are not willing to give back and more important shows it in their day to day life.

Make up in baseball means getting after it regardless of the score. Nothing changes. Nothing. It means never being on time. It means being early all the time. It means your the first one to the park and the last one that wants to leave. You play all out because its the only way you know to play the game. You run everything out not because someone told you to or your expected to. No you run everything out because thats the only way you know how to play the game. Your a great team mate because your a great team mate. Not because you heard it was the thing to do or someone told you to be a great team mate. You pick those up around you even when your having a tough game. You are a gamer. You bring it everyday because there is no where else in the world you would rather be than right there on the baseball field either working to get better or playing the game.

There is no way your going to lead a gamer unless you are a gamer. He is not going to buy it. He will continue to be a gamer because that's who he is and that's what he is about. But you will not lead him. In order to be a leader you must be about what your talking about. In order to be a leader you must lead by example and be willing to sacrifice for those that will follow.

The same "make up" on the baseball field that will allow you to be successful is the same "make up" off the field that will allow you to be successful in life. Attack your job with the same make up you attacked the game of baseball. If your tell someone your going to be somewhere then your there on the field and off the field. If you are going to do something then do it to the best of your ability or don't do it at all.

Can make up be taught? Well I can tell you this I have had many a player come into my hs program who did not understand what make up was. But they learned that:

If your early your on time. If your on time your late. If your late dont bother coming.
If your going to step on that field you better be running and you better be giving everything you have or you better get off of it.
If your going to be a part of this team and this program than you will play hard and you will represent what we represent or you wont be representing.
If you want to be average go home and be average. If you want to be average then use all the examples you have everyday around you to follow their lead. If you want to be special then be special. If not go home.

In other words we will show you what make up is. And you will have a decision to make. And you will either learn to understand what we are talking about or you will not be a part of what we do. I have seen young men become special and understand exactly what make up is. And I have been fortunate to get them that had it day one who learned it from Mom, Dad, Uncle, Brother, or were simply born with it. I really dont know for sure how everyone gets it or doesn't get it. But I sure as hel can demand it. And they can either learn to understand it or they can find another place to play. And sometimes they simply walk away because they are not willing or unable to invest into something that will require them to have make up.

What do I hope to accomplish here? I want a young man to understand that this is not just about winning a baseball game and helping them become the best player they can be. If thats what it was all about it would not be worth the investment. No its way more important than that. Its about understanding that in order to be special you must be willing to invest in being special. And I am going to demand that you have make up. And its something that can not be faked. And if your not willing to invest into something that requires you to have make up then this simply is not for you.

There is absolutely a genetic factor involved in make-up. For example, scouts follow sons of major leaguers not only for their inherited athleticism but for their personality profile. It's kind of like going to Alaska to find gold. The way they prepare for and play the game is locked in their genetic chain. They don't need a lot of mentoring to develop this approach. Like it or not, when you look in the mirror you will see the foundation of your biological parents. Your environment can change that to a degree and for a time but remove the constant stimulus and you will revert to your genetic make-up. Some will struggle a lifetime seeking to surround themselves with mentors and born leaders but they will never be THE born leader. If you have "make-up" the trait that distinguishes you from all the others is consistency. You can be taught many of these attributes by influential and strong willed parents but to be the genuine article, is an act of God. If you were to walk a beach of seven trillion grains of sand, your eye would be drawn to those grains with true make-up. That's how rare I really think it is. I'm not just talking about a good person here.....I'm talking about a life changer.

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Against my better judgment, here goes YoungGunDad...

Acquired?

What was I thinking!?

I've been rolled more than the Mighty Mississippi!
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Inherited?

Can't be any other explanation. Right guys?

Nice legs though, don't you think? They get quite the work out every day!






By the way, for the sake of both my short term and long term health I am only kidding. Really. Seriously. Kidding only dear.

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And once again, Coach May has another excellent post.

Nice topic.

I have two boys and a girl. Two of them (one boy, one girl) have it and one (boy) does not. Based on my limited sample, I would say it is inherited. Of course, my girl has both kinds of makeup

Parents can nurture it imho but there has to be something there in the first place.

If make up is being mentally and physically tough, not being intimidated, wanting to be in tough or pressure situations, making no excuses for mistakes or failing, being a good teammate, then I don't think it can be taught or acquired. I believe these things your born with.

These traits would be apparent regardless what sport an individual played IMO.

I agree with many of you in that individual make-up is inherited. But I firmly believe that this inherited trait will manifest itself early in a "young spirit" whom must be shown how to best channel their passion (or make-up) to good and beneficial activities. I also believe that the answer to Coach May's question “Can make up be taught?” lies on whether the person has it in them or not (inherited or not?) As an engineer I always look for the exception to the rule. In this case I am reminded of something I have always believed; that love concurs all. For baseball, if you have a love for the game you may be able to overcome something you may not have inherited.

Makeup (as it relates to baseball and scouting) can vary greatly even within the same family. Much of it is developed over a long period of time and influenced greatly by surroundings.

Good makeup doesn't have a clear definition. It involves many things. It is possible for someone to have excellent work ethic, great character; even outstanding talent and full of desire... yet come far short of having championship caliber makeup. Then again these things could add to the overall baseball makeup of that player.

Some of the most important things that those with great makeup have is mental toughness, persistence, lack of fear, the ability to adapt, and confidence. There are many other things as well. The guys with the championship caliber makeup are not always the nicest people. Yet it can and does happen that way at times.

Makeup can include most everything that is not physical. Many of those with great baseball makeup could be considered thrill seekers. Sometimes a player can give clues to his makeup based on how he answers certain questions. i.e. Are you satisfied with your ability? What are your goals? Are you a risk taker?

If there is such a thing as great makeup in banking or accounting... It might be much different than great makeup in baseball.

I should add...

Scouts often disagree when evaluating a players makeup. It's even possible that one scout might think a player has terrible makeup while another scout might think the same player has championship makeup. People don't always agree when it comes to makeup.

I would say that makeup is the hardest thing to determine and it's the one area that is easiest to be wrong.

Makeup causes more failure than talent.

Make up causes more failure than talent.

PG, do you mean lack of make up?

Yes I should have said poor makeup. No one actually lacks makeup. Everyone has it!

quote:

Originally posted by fillsfan:
Make up causes more failure than talent.

PG, do you mean lack of make up?

I don't think any one person lacks makeup, just that some of us define it differently.

Good example might be the quarterback that had to miss a few games this season due to do off the field issues. While he showed lack of makeup for the decisions he made, he has the make up to be a championship quarterback.

I think that is what PG is referring to, I may be wrong but I agree with what he has posted.

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"No one actually lacks makeup. Everyone has it!"

Indeed!





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Woody,

I really could have went the rest of my life without having looked at HER again.

Geez. Thanks.

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If she ever makes another appearance keep these handy...



I think they're rated to allow viewing an atomic explosion from 15 miles.

Good luck!




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Back in the youth league days I'd take the kids with the less desireable makeup who were more talented and then I'd usually find that the kids had great makeup. Makeup is in the eye of the beholder.

Before I got on the coaches seven step program, I coached a little league season with Steve Smith who won a Stanley Cup with Wayne Gretzky. I asked him if you could teach instincts in an athlete. His response was no that you either have it you don't. If someone doesn't have the innate instincts he said you have to turn them into a zombie which is taught what to do in each circumstance.

I agree with those thoughts. Make up is one thing however, leadership is another. The former could be defined as an individual trait while the latter focuses on the team.

I agree that the OP really asked about two completely different characteristics; make-up and Leadership. You can have on without the other.

This is they age old nurture/nature question. Based on my experiences, I go with Nature here. Scientific research in brain development during the past 20+ years has revealed how much of our behavioral traits are set by chromosome tracers, in the uterus before birth.

Makeup? Baseball?

quote:

This is they age old nurture/nature question. Based on my experiences, I go with Nature here. Scientific research in brain development during the past 20+ years has revealed how much of our behavioral traits are set by chromosome tracers, in the uterus before birth.

Prime9,

That's very interesting. My question would be, is it possible to reverse or change those behavioral traits? If not, maybe no one should ever be released from prison.

Also I agree... Leadership, character, etc. can be a part of someones makeup, but so does everything else that is non physical. Unless we are talking about physical makeup. But it is almost always the mental makeup that is responsible for success or failure. Many very gifted athletes have never come close to reaching their potential because they don't have what it takes mentally. Many lesser physically talented athletes have far surpassed any scouts estimation and have come close to reaching their full potential because they are so strong mentally.

Some positive makeup ingredients to one person might be considered negative traits by another person. Did Pete Rose have championship makeup?

To me, this is a very interesting topic. Personally I believe makeup is just as important, maybe even more so in some cases, than physical talent. Yet, it is the hardest to define and the toughest to evaluate correctly. Maybe it's inherited, I'm sure it is to some extent, but I think everyone should try hard to acquire it!

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Did Pete Rose have championship makeup?

Yes he did indeed. Bud Harrelson or Ray Fosse might not have agreed with that, but if Rose didn't have it, then nobody did imho.

CD,

Kind of gives a different perspective about what makeup is, doesn't it?

Every kid has makeup. It's a matter of if and when they discover their makeup.

One of my kids had makeup from the moment he walked on a s0ccer field as a four year old. He was in control of the game. This one instinctively knew what to do in every sport he played.

One of my kids was such a physical late bloomer the makeup didn't show until she knew she could play at a more competitive level. She studied the sports so she knew what to do to overcome her skill level until she improved. Imagine the makeup change when a 4'8" twelve year old becomes a 5'10" fourteen years old.

Yet by junior year the kid with the early makeup leads by example. The late bloomer led with her voice.

In general, makeup is inherited. But what one does with that makeup is acquired.
If the kid doesn't have the "drive" to want, then it doesn't matter what the inherited makeup is.
So would "drive" be the acquired trait.

"You have to believe in yourself, before anyone else will believe in you." (An acquired trait)or are you born with it and have to dig deep to find it.

The quickest measure of makeup is to determine how that player reacts to adversity.

quote:

The quickest measure of makeup is to determine how that player reacts to adversity.

I agree with this.

"Thanks for the mammaries." -- The Dolly Parton Show

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
My question would be, is it possible to reverse or change those behavioral traits?

Scientifically, yes. Morally....? You'd have to ask the Germans about that.

The player with the greatest natural ability that I have ever seen play in the MLB is Dave Winfield. He had speed, power and a strong throwing arm.

He left baseball with the knickname 'Mr. May' because he never performed strongly for an entire season.

With better coaching, Winfield may have developed better stamina. He may have developed a beter power stroke instead of hitting like a midle infielder.

Better coaching would have taught him not to swing for the middle in double play situations.

Overall, with the natural gifts that Winfield came to the game with, he had very little effect on the game and the success of the teams he played for.

Good coaching can mold and educate a player into becoming a better player and a valued asset to their team.

After readint this whole thread and especially the ones who say it's inherited got me thinking. If make up is inherited then how do you explain the kids who turn into winners, that make it when they come from parents that for, decorum's sake, don't have it? How do you inherit something that wasn't there?

Reading Coach May's post about how he expects a certain level of having "it" and teaching his kids how to have "it" combined with the first line of RJM's last post " Every kid has makeup. It's a matter of if and when they discover their makeup." has me thinking. What if every person is born with the potential to have this make up we all value but not every person ever reaches due to various circumstances?

We talk about some kids naturally have it at an early age and that could be due to seeing it at home being modeled by and demanded by the parents. Some may take longer due to they come across a coach or teacher later on in high school. Our environment determines whether or not we reach full potential for make up.

Quincy,

Dave Winfield is a first ballot Hall of Famer.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Dave Winfield is a first ballot Hall of Famer.

Yes, but his son is 'only' on the JV basketball team. Walt Hazzard Jr is on Varsity, so... ???? Who knows?

over the years I have been involved in this greatgame I have found " makeup" to be different things in different kids

some kids, regardless of age just step on the field and they are in total control of every situation---others need to be prodded and cajoled
it is something a player is either born with or not but in some it must be nurtured.