Metro Scout League 09

Does your son want to be seen by many college coaches and pro scouts? If so, yes, it is worth the money.

Let me preface my comments by saying that I've never been to a MSL game, nor has my son participated. However, I do know several people who participated last fall. The feedback they gave me was that for pitchers, the MSL was a great experience and worth the money. As for position players, the feedback wasn't as positive and I'll leave it at that.

I noticed where they were opening MSL up to 15/16s .. any history on that? Is it by invite only as well? Noticed they had a player app?

I believe pitching remains at a premium. My position player son was recruited as a pitcher in large part because of his performance in the MSL -- by 3 Big 12 teams.

I understand the perspective communicated by dd here regarding position players. Concerning that issue, I'll express an opionion I have had since the onset of the league ------ I think at least a portion of it should be played with metal.

IMO, it's worth the money.

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I think at least a portion of it should be played with metal.

Why?

There are many kids that will make good college players -- not necessarily pros -- and swing metal for 3-4 years. Pitchers will face different adversities when facing teams with metal. I know you're a baseball purist. I imagine you would like to see wood everywhere --- I think it's a good idea too. But it's a recruiting process and the college game is still metal.

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Originally posted by Panther Dad:
There are many kids that will make good college players -- not necessarily pros -- and swing metal for 3-4 years. Pitchers will face different adversities when facing teams with metal. I know you're a baseball purist. I imagine you would like to see wood everywhere --- I think it's a good idea too. But it's a recruiting process and the college game is still metal.

Actually, makes no difference to me if they use alloy or ash.....

But if a college coach cannot make his evaluations on the fact that the wood bat is being used, than I would reconsider if the school he represents is a place your student athlete should be interested in.

This summer, most organizations at the 18U level used wood bats. Pitchers pitched and hitters hit. The same players will recieve the same opportunities regardless of what they held during their swing or what they pitched to.

Ken is right, college coaches should be able to evaluate a hitter who is using wood or metal. If anything, I think wood makes it more difficult to evaluate pitching.

Nobody in the Cape, Northwoods league, Alaska league, TCL, etc, are lobbying for metal bat. My point is, these high school players who are being forced to use wood now, are going to be that much further ahead when they get to college, and then summer collegiate ball.

Give me a break guys -- some coaches are there for one week, maybe two. Of course then can evaluate a hitter with wood if they get to watch BP, follow a kid a lot, etc. But it's not as easy when seeing a kid hit 4 times in a live game....the coaches have to make a pretty quick judgment. And yes, I understand that these aren't big money kids -- those guys are known before the league. These are kids that will get 25% (or less). A 350 HR might seal a decision more than a 280 F7. It's the same with something like the AC tryouts -- see a kid take 10 swings with wood and 4 ground balls, then pick the team. It's about who knows who before the event ---- and that's ok ---- it is what is it. But this league is advertised as a bundle of opportunities. Why not showcase the kids in the best possible light? Kirk, you know I'm a big fan of the league.

I don't understand the hesitation to split time in this league -- 10 inning games or whatever -- do they all need to be with wood? To be honest, the first two weeks of summer baseball with wood (college or otherwise) are pretty boring.....and there really aren't many scouts at the collegiate leagues during the early part of the season unless they are watching summer-follows. The summer leagues use wood for several reasons, whether it be tradition, economics, contracts, insurance risk, etc.

Don't get me wrong....I'm just expressing an opionion regarding the MSL....no hidden agenda.

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But it's not as easy when seeing a kid hit 4 times in a live game

Pretty easy for me. But I'm not a college coach.

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And yes, I understand that these aren't big money kids -- those guys are known before the league. These are kids that will get 25% (or less). A 350 HR might seal a decision more than a 280 F7. It's the same with something like the AC tryouts -- see a kid take 10 swings with wood and 4 ground balls, then pick the team. It's about who knows who before the event ---- and that's ok ---- it is what is it. But this league is advertised as a bundle of opportunities. Why not showcase the kids in the best possible light? Kirk, you know I'm a big fan of the league.

I think your preception of how it all really works is a little jaded. Whether a kid hits a 400 ft. shot with an aluminum bat or a line drive over the SS head with wood is not the question. It's whether the kid has a good swing mechanically and puts together a good AB. Emphasis on the good AB. If that happens 4 times in a row regardless outcome, he most likely will get another look which may lead to an opportunity.

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I don't understand the hesitation to split time in this league -- 10 inning games or whatever -- do they all need to be with wood?

I don't understand either, wood or aluminum makes no difference, but your arguement in aluminum creating chance of more opportunity is unjustified.

PD,

Only opinions...If we (baseball community) stay the course (summer and fall), in a few years we will be talking about what a great idea it was to go to the wood bat...IMO.

If a college coach only watches a player one game, it doesn't matter if he is 0-4 with wood or metal, college coach will evaluate, swing, approach, how player deals with failure, speed, arm, defense, etc.

Why is wood better to use in fall MSL. Don't kids use metal in HS and college?

Proven Fact: A wood bat game vs a Metal bat game means 30 less pitches for both sides. I don’t know about you but I am on the side of saving our kids arms. Especially in the fall.

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Originally posted by NHMTeam:
Why is wood better to use in fall MSL. Don't kids use metal in HS and college?

Yes, but everyone of these kids will turn pro soon so let's get them used to it ASAP.

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Proven Fact: A wood bat game vs a Metal bat game means 30 less pitches for both sides. I don’t know about you but I am on the side of saving our kids arms. Especially in the fall.

...then doesn't this comment support that wood bat leagues are a benefit to the pitchers? Earlier posts seemed to dismiss this notion?

All I know is that in two fall’s of MSL, collikar son only had 4 total hits. He needed to see quality pitching during the fall and he did; therefore, mission accomplished.

Is there any discounts on Dbat bats in the fall if we play in the MSL.

Wood is better. It means more money for DBAT as they can sell some wood bats, Select baseball is becoming more and more about the money with each passing year. We now have upwards of 6 and 8 teams playing under one team umbrella for kids as young as 8-10 years old calling themselves "select" when many couldn't play themselves out of a local rec league, metro scout league now allowing 15 and 16 year olds, Perfectgame doing pre-highschool showcases, yada, yada, yada.

As long as there are enough parents out there who think that their little Johnnie is the next D1 or MLB star it won't stop.

EDIT: Wrong.

Perhaps I'm a little biased because I would like to see a permanent move to wood. Or maybe they could regulate metal bats- nothing made within the last 30 years can be used in games.

Lovingbaseball alter ego,

We manufactured and sold 77,000 bats last year. I don’t think the 60-80 bats we sold to the metro scout league last year is the reason we started the league. Not to mention about 40% of the league used wood bats that are not DBATs. I could care less about what bat they use. If I did Kermits and Sams team would have used DBATs only. If you went to see them play you would have seen ½ the team using a different company. Good try anyway.

ummm? Who cares whose buying whose bat? Can we get back on the topic. This year there was an emphasis put on wood bat play. It seems pitching and defense dominated most games. If there are 100 players out there, what percetage goes on to college (metal bat) and from there what percent goes on to pro ball (wood)? Should the focus be on helping a larger percent going to college or the few that make it to the pros?

Aloysius,

Why do you think colleges send their players to wood bat leagues all over the country in the summers?

To get them ready for the pro's where they use wood bats.

quote:

Originally posted by Aloysius:
ummm? Who cares whose buying whose bat? Can we get back on the topic. This year there was an emphasis put on wood bat play. It seems pitching and defense dominated most games. If there are 100 players out there, what percetage goes on to college (metal bat) and from there what percent goes on to pro ball (wood)? Should the focus be on helping a larger percent going to college or the few that make it to the pros?

What 100 players are you sampling?

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Originally posted by tychco:
Aloysius,

Why do you think colleges send their players to wood bat leagues all over the country in the summers?

Please allow me.......

TO IMPROVE THE PITCHERS STATS!

I agree with PD, not only are there college kids who can hit with metal but not wood, there are also kids who can get kids out who are hitting with wood, but don't get kids out who are hitting with metal. I had my son take all his batting practices with wood, from about 12 years up, but it wasn't to make him a summer league stud or a pro, it was simply because it made hitting with metal seem easy when he switched back.

Don't let Kirky get the best of you PD.

Oh ya, original topic..... well worth the money.

If you can hit you can hit,bottom line,doesn't matter if it's wood or metal. Sure your average and power #'s may be higher with metal but if your playing in a wood bat league it's all relative. Does anyone really think that when a batter is squaring one up the ball knows if the bat is wood or metal.

I agree with Letot. If a kid can hit, a kid can hit. Just maybe for less power with the wood.

Shouldn't scouts be looking at the swing and not whether the baseball falls in for a hit? I would think evaluating a kids swing, plate perceverance (SP?) and post at-bat attitude would influence a scout far more than if a guy hits a 235 ft. base hit or a 245 ft. base hit. AM I WRONG in what I've been teaching my kid?

My son played in the MSL last year and it was one of the best things he did.

Using a wood bat made him a better hitter. He has always used wood in practice but not in many games. Difference is wood is not as forgiving as metal therefore using a wood bat exposes more flaws in the swing.

If your son is a position player, he will get AB's against some of the best pitchers in the area. Can't hurt...

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Originally posted by Letot:
If you can hit you can hit,bottom line,doesn't matter if it's wood or metal. Sure your average and power #'s may be higher with metal but if your playing in a wood bat league it's all relative. Does anyone really think that when a batter is squaring one up the ball knows if the bat is wood or metal.

You're just saying that because your boy can hit!



...not a fair statement for these parents who want their kids to use metal because they cannot hit with wood.

This all started because one guy made a comment about the worth of the league in terms of pitchers vs hitters. Does anyone disagree that the pitchers stand out? My suggestion to "split" the time -- and it doesn't have to be a 50/50 split....it can be 90wood/10metal....is to simply level the playing field for a few innings. Also, all of you are correct --- a coach should be able to evaluate talent by watching the swing. But, I suggest that evaluating talent at a MSL weekend is a bit more complicated than watching a swing. There are 120 kids to watch -- hitters, pitchers, fielders, team guys, attitudes, hustle guys, etc. Do all recruiting coordinators, assistants, etc. see the same things? Obviously not. I didn't mean to make this a controversy....but the arguments for 100% wood are unconvincing. "If they can hit with metal, then can hit with wood." True, so why not send them up there with rolled-up newspapers...."If they can hit with metal and they can hit with wood, then they can hit with....." You get the point.

Hey, my kid benefited from pitching in the MSL. The league was the probably the best "investment" we made. But would all of you agree that "if he can pitch to guys with wood bats, he can pitch to guys swinging metal" is equally true? Maybe not. Kirk Kiser can get a few outs facing guys with wood (BATS!). Oh, right....wait....the rc's are watching pitching mechanics!

I imagine the powers-that-be are asking the coaches, scouts, the Yankee scouts, etc. what they want to see.....and the baseball guys are saying that they are fine with wood.....who wants to admit to preferring aluminum??? EVIL!!!

Oh and....the college coaches send their kids to wood bat leagues because there are no collegiate metal bat leagues. I suggest that many don't care whether the material is man-made or natural.

FYI - For those of you who are playing in the Rolled Up Wet Newspaper League my experience has shown that the DMN Sunday edition works best. Some leagues will not allow it due to the size of the barrel so check with your league first.

I don't know if kids hitting with wood makes them better hitters or not...seems like if you can hit, you can hit.

Sam Carpenter had his team hit with wood all summer...not to prepare them for the pros and not to prepare them for college, but because Connie Mack went to all wood events this year and that was the goal of the team.

Probably 2/3 of his opponents swung metal while the boys swung wood. They lost some of those games. Would they have lost all those games swinging metal? Maybe, but probably not all of them.

The team then won the CM Regioanl. Did Sam's philosophy work? I guess because the boys are headed to Farmington, but in five games the team scored 2, 3, 4, 1 and 11 runs...not exactly fireworks until the end. Fortunately, the pitching carried most of those games.

But has swinging wood all summer hurt them? Not in the least. It either helped them or kept them the same, but it didn't hurt them. Personally, I think it helped.

Last year the hitters were allowed to use metal during the last game if they wanted to. I didn't see that many more hits. Maybe one or two extra home runs. But the fields at Craig Ranch are small only 295' down the lines and 350' to center. At Poteet we don't swing metal until February including the freshman and JV teams.
I thought the MSL was good for my son.

The point of this discussion isn't necessarily if they will be become better players swinging wood. I don't think they will become substantially better in either case -- that's not the goal of the league, is it? It isn't an instructional league. It's a showcase league. Sam did the right thing with a goal in mind...and it worked.

I suggest that Tyler Collins turned the most heads swinging metal in the summer of 2008. Or fiberglass at the lake with ?

But he may have been noticed with bamboo.

quote:

Originally posted by tychco:
I don't know if kids hitting with wood makes them better hitters or not...seems like if you can hit, you can hit.

Sam Carpenter had his team hit with wood all summer...not to prepare them for the pros and not to prepare them for college, but because Connie Mack went to all wood events this year and that was the goal of the team.

Probably 2/3 of his opponents swung metal while the boys swung wood. They lost some of those games. Would they have lost all those games swinging metal? Maybe, but probably not all of them.

The team then won the CM Regioanl. Did Sam's philosophy work? I guess because the boys are headed to Farmington, but in five games the team scored 2, 3, 4, 1 and 11 runs...not exactly fireworks until the end. Fortunately, the pitching carried most of those games.

But has swinging wood all summer hurt them? Not in the least. It either helped them or kept them the same, but it didn't hurt them. Personally, I think it helped.

Since I got to watch Sam's team a lot this summer, I believe it helped using wood bats in other areas.

Pitching: Although Sam's team had a good crew on the mound, I think it taught them to throw and think a little more on the mound since obviously games weren't usually going to be 11-10 but 2-1. Also, defense played a bigger role. In the games I witnessed the glove work was outstanding.

Going back to metal for college should be an easy adjustment.

Just my two cents...

quote:

Originally posted by Panther Dad:
The point of this discussion isn't necessarily if they will be become better players swinging wood. I don't think they will become substantially better in either case -- that's not the goal of the league, is it? It isn't an instructional league. It's a showcase league. Sam did the right thing with a goal in mind...and it worked.

I suggest that Tyler Collins turned the most heads swinging metal in the summer of 2008. Or fiberglass at the lake with ?

But he may have been noticed with bamboo.

PD-

He would rather swing fiberglass at a lake with than anything. He tried to talk SWAC into another fishing trip, but Farmington stepped on that one.
Bamboozle finally broke, but with the rare 90 warranty, it has been returned for a new bamboozle to break.

One thing to add with regards to MSL. One of the reasons the hitting is spotty is the once a week games. One thing I have seen this summer is the kids are swinging wood pretty well now. Averaging 6-8 games a week will help the consistency...wood or metal.

Playing one 12 or 14 inning game a week, even if the kids are working in the cage, seems to cause hitters to be less effective.