MONIES

I bet the next CBA is going to fix that.

The NFL has to do the same thing

I strongly beleive that there should be a cap on draft bonus.

There are a lot of things that need changing in the system, that being one of them.

quote:

I have a problem with guy who has been around 10 years watching a kid, still wet behind the ears, making more than he does and doing it in the first contract.

Why?

#1. As a spectator why does a player's salary even interest you? You're not running the business. It is a private business that chooses to disclose employee salaries, but none the less, professional sporting teams are private business.

#2. Where does your interest in salary normalization end? Does it extend into other industries and professions? Should salary caps be implemented on CEOs and directors of financial firms? (Oops - BHO has already done this). Should participation fees be capped that limit the amount of money that coaches and managers of select baseball teams are allowed to collect from their clients?

Do you want the liberty of making your own financial and personal decisions or the tyranny of having government or pseudo-gov't imposing financial decisions and lifestyle policies upon you?

Why should there be a cap on any bonus?

If a team thinks that a player is worth x $ then what is wrong with him getting the money? This is the basis to the free market system. An exceptional talent will always get exceptional money.

I'm a free market guy. Let the teams pay what they can afford or think the player is worth.

Those 10-year veterans benefitted from the same system when they entered and there were 10-year guys before them.

quote:

Originally posted by justbaseball:
Those 10-year veterans benefitted from the same system when they entered and there were 10-year guys before them.

That I do agree with, the 10 year player had his opportunity to make plenty of $$ he didn't get as a bonus after FA.

Collective bargaining provisions such as caps on bonuses or rookie salaries always rub me the wrong way. They benefit the players who have already "arrived," at the expense of the players who are trying to "arrive."

What is really broken in my mind is not the large bonuses for the high draft picks but rather the less than minimum wage being paid the lower level minor leaguers.

I'm not a fan of controlling bonuses - but I would like to see a significant increase in the minor league pay so that the lesser players can enjoy something resembling a decent quality of life. Frankly, it is in the team's best interest that the players have the money to eat decently and have a place to get a good night's sleep.

If their is no monetary "bonus" for the top notch high school kids what is their incentive to go pro out of high school. Why would they want to ride buses and stay in second rate hotels for 4-5 years when they can go to college be treated like MLB players?

The salaries for minor league players is next to nothing so the bonus is the only carrot. Relative to other sports 1-4 million dollars for the top picks isn't so out of control. A few have gotten a lot more but they are the exceptions.

IMO 08Dad is right on the money. In what other "Bussines" can you be in the top couple thousand people talent wise but yet spend several years rideing around in busses, eating at fast food joints, and laying your head down anywhere you can all the while pulling in a grand total of less than $1000 a month. That to me boys and girls, just ain't right. I think they need to let a little of the cream on the top filter down thru to the boys at the bottom trying to swim upstream.

quote:

Originally posted by plash3:
IMO 08Dad is right on the money. In what other "Bussines" can you be in the top couple thousand people talent wise but yet spend several years rideing around in busses, eating at fast food joints, and laying your head down anywhere you can all the while pulling in a grand total of less than $1000 a month. That to me boys and girls, just ain't right. I think they need to let a little of the cream on the top filter down thru to the boys at the bottom trying to swim upstream.

For personally selfish reasons...I think he's right on too!

Seriously, I think its fine. What other business? Pretty much any segment of the entertainment business. Music, acting, etc... One of mine is on one of the buses, bumping around the Midwest this year. I don't hear complaints other than about the weather. Hasn't asked for a dime, sounds happy...but looks pretty thin in the photos I've found online. Today he called home awfully excited about the bass he caught fishin! Not sure why he put it back in the lake though.

How's it different that backpacking around Europe for a year or so after graduation? We all call that a 'wonderful lifetime experience!' Beloit, Lansing, Fort Wayne, Clinton, etc... Thats his current wonderful lifetime experience. He'll get out if/when he wants too or someone else tells him too.

But for now, I'm just happy that he seems so happy!

I'm sorry, but I don't see how minor league baseball is any different than an internship in other fields?

I wish I could feel sorry for those ball players making $700-1000 a month plus food money plus in the league I am currently working with, they live with a host family. Meanwhile, I am an intern making all of $0 paying for my gas to get there each day and working near-full time for nothing which makes it difficult for me to work at a job actually making money.

I'm not looking for somebody to feel sorry for me. I chose to do this internship to gain experience and hopefully improve and maybe someday "make it to the bigs."

Tell me how it's any different?

Bulldog - You and I are sayin' exactly the same thing. Have fun, my friend.

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog 19:
I'm sorry, but I don't see how minor league baseball is any different than an internship in other fields?

....

Generally, in my field, accounting there's almost a 100% hire rate of the interns.....after they graduate from school.....not so with an "internship" with the minor leagues.

I believe it should be addressed the other way.
There should be a league minimum for bonuses.
The Minor leaguer should not have to rely on his parents to supplement his income??
The Parent has done enough up to this point.
The league should be taking the rains now.

EH

quote:

I believe it should be addressed the other way.
There should be a league minimum for bonuses.
The Minor leaguer should not have to rely on his parents to supplement his income??
The Parent has done enough up to this point.
The league should be taking the rains now.

And that's any different than other low-paying jobs at that experience level?

CollegeParent, I think you bring up a valid point. However I wonder how many fields are "almost 100% hire rate" like in accounting. Teaching it isn't the case. Athletic Training it isn't the case. I would guess there aren't many that have "near 100% hire rates for interns."

It would be a big help to the players if they didn't have to pay club house dues,which they pay for washing their uniforms and the spread after the game.

njbb good point,
However, cluhouse dues are tax deductible. Mine gets two meals a day when at home @ 8 dollars a day and there is no way he could eat for less than that. He now only has to cover one more meal a day, usually breakfast, the cheapest meal of the day.
Wasn't understanding why clubhouse attendants are not paid by the organization as an employee, but doubt they would ever get anyone at the rate they would want to pay. In speaking with a clubhouse attendant down in Palm Beach, he gets nice bucks, especially during spring training. While he puts in a 10+ hour perday when the team is home, he only works 8 months a year. Really interesting discussion.

BTW, a college grad, but not employed for degree earned , he LOVES his job.

quote:

However, cluhouse dues are tax deductible.

Do most MiLB guys actually make enough to itemize deductions? What are some other deductible expenses besides moving?

The itemization could be enough to recoup some back, depending on any money (not just for baseball) earned that year and how much you pay towards your fed and state taxes.
Other items are anything else that you spent that would be related to your job. Supplements, vitamins, gym fees, dry cleaning, car transportation, spring training meals and expenses, not paid by team, any travel expenses while traveling during season, not covered by team just to name a few.
If you spend one season in one place, you cannot take off rent, food, etc, IRS considers that your tax state, if you get moved up during the season, you get to take off all expenses where you spent the least time that season (as related to your job). That's what I get out of it and club dues can be very much apart of those expenses. For example, while a player cannot always take off meals, he can deduct club house dues.
Some of it comes out in the wash though, son got a raise but now has to pay MO state tax, where he didn't here in FL.

As a CPA I can tell you that an itemized deduction for club house dues, equipment etc is pretty much worthless due to phase outs and the alternative minimum tax, for the guys that make decent money from bonuses etc. Kids making the minumum will be using the standard deduction. If they have suffient expenses to actually get a deduction, they'll need use the limited tax savings to pay for a tax preparer.....

College parent,
You are correct, most of what I have posted does not apply until after one pays taxes from bonus payout.
This is son's third year so he's making the minimum and will have enough for the standard deduction. You neve know so one should keep track of their expenses.
The info I posted is directly from his account, who is provided by his agent. It's kind of involved and deductions apply in certain situations.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
College parent,
You are correct, most of what I have posted does not apply until after one pays taxes from bonus payout.
This is son's third year so he's making the minimum and will have enough for the standard deduction. You neve know so one should keep track of their expenses.
The info I posted is directly from his account, who is provided by his agent. It's kind of involved and deductions apply in certain situations.

The misc. itemized deduction is generally a waste of time collecting the info and a waste of your money having your accoutant dutifly check the figures, enter it into their software ($$ time is money$$) only to tell you your are in AMT etc....

CP,
I don't get the argument in your post, but that's ok. You must be an accountant so you would know better. However, I just recently spoke to son's accountant (provided by his agency) and was instructed as to what can be itemized and what can't, depending on one's own personal situation.

i would guess that his off season income would need to be pretty substancial. or his bonus money paid over a few years?

i haven't made a ton of money the last few yrs,( construction) it isn't worth itemizing for us. pretty close to the standard deduction.

but everyone's situation is different.

As for the young guys getting paid more than the 10 year vets issue of this thread I think it's wrong. Assuming the numbers are all the same these rookies and 2 - 5 year players shouldn't get paid more than a 10 year vet (unless the numbers being produced are greatly different - still have to factor in productivity).

How many businesses pay guys coming out of college more than a guy who's been with them for 10 years? I know in every school system I have applied for beginning teachers make less than teachers who have years of experience. So why would baseball (or any sport for that matter) be any different? Virtually all businesses have a pay scale structure in place for employees.

You can argue free market, capitalism, socialism and all that other stuff but at some point common sense needs to come into play. The salaries keep going up because you keep paying unproven talent so much money then at some point you are hurting the consumer. Eventually it will get to the point that the average fan won't be able to go to a game or buy the merchandise. TV fees / contracts will keep going up and that will increase cable rates the average person has to pay - ESPN has to come up with that money somehow to show NFL, NBA and MLB games.

quote:

How many businesses pay guys coming out of college more than a guy who's been with them for 10 years? I know in every school system I have applied for beginning teachers make less than teachers who have years of experience. So why would baseball (or any sport for that matter) be any different? Virtually all businesses have a pay scale structure in place for employees.

Depends upon what you do, and as a "vetran" you can choose to work for a different company/district willing to pay you more. Most pro baseball players can't really do that as the system is rigged to prevent players from easily changing teams for a better opportunity. The only "leverage" a player has on a pro team prior to free aganecy is his signing bonus opportunity.

If the teams could limit the signing bonsus I am 100% sure they would pocket the savings.

Life ain't fair.

I don't see the problem with a young player making more than the ten-year guy because in the real working world, the next generation of worker tends to make more more than the past generation (all things being equal). However, a rookie cap isn't a bad idea. Let them earn their big payday in the pros.

As for the minor league pay, it's not great but players know this when they choose this profession. As somebody previouisly mentioned, it's like an internship to play in the big leagues so there's no feeling sorry for anybody. Nobody's twisting their arms to get into this business. There are people who intern for nothing in their chosen field so minor league baseball players don't have it bad at all.

Spiz,
nice.

I have mixed feeling on this, even with a player in pro ball. A signing bonus is relevant to worth and talent.Most of these guys getting big bucks, are most likely gonna get bigger bucks later on. I just don't see a team paying millions and millions of dollars (50 the rumor is) for a player who has never played in the pro game.
FWIW, milb is not about being comfortable, it's about being uncomfortable. It's about having to sleep on the floor on a bus on an overnight ride to your next destination, it's about ****** food and living with 3-5 guys to meet your expenses. Much more uncomfortable than at school, that's for sure. One has a choice when they sign on the dotted line, this will be your life, and sacrifices (making more money somewhere else) are enormous.
Players have to be able to understand that the real rewards come through hard work and I really do believe the system is designed to make them work hard, those that don't, don't move forward.

My son got a decent bonus, yes he could have gotten more, do I as a parent think he was worth more? That's pretty hard to tell unless you can see them on the field with other players, to determine their worth. And most of these kids just pee away whatever money they are given to try to make their lives more comfortable. Many of them work hard just to make the next level and can live with that, many won't stop there, never happy until they get to the final destination, or reality sinks in that they most likely will not. That's when having a plan B works. I am glad he didn't get more, I want him to work for it, that's the only way he's gonna get there. BTW, what company gives you a 110K or a million bucks to sign on with them? Let me know?
In general, bonuses still remain low. The really big buck guys actually get that because they sign MLB contracts, their bonus is just small part of that and it's paid out over a long time period. In reality they are going to eventually get it one day anyway, because their talent commanded it.

quote:

Eventually it will get to the point that the average fan won't be able to go to a game or buy the merchandise.

When that happens the consumer will find other entertainment values for their money, and the market will self correct. There is no reason for outsiders (government regulators or other do-gooders) to interfere with this process. This is an issue between management & labor. Leave it to them to sort this out.

quote:

You can argue free market, capitalism, socialism and all that other stuff but at some point common sense needs to come into play.

Who is the arbiter of this 'common sense'? What seems common and sensible to you may not be to me.

Drafts already artificially hold down bonuses and contracts by limiting negotiations to only one potential employer. MLB tries to further hold down potential bonuses with their absurd slotting system. I see no need for a rookie cap or anything similar. If a team is willing to pay a player X amount of money, then he is worth it to that team.

Yeah the late 1800's to early 1900's are a perfect example of how labor and management were able to work things out.

15 hour days, 6 days a week, no benefits, poor working conditions, company stores, Pinkerton Detective agency and all kinds of other stuff aren't exactly examples of sorting things out. If it wasn't for the government workers would not have the things they have now.

Our government, economy and country works best when there is an appropriate balance between government, labor and management. When it gets too far to one side of the other is when it goes haywire. Right now - we got haywire.

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
Yeah the late 1800's to early 1900's are a perfect example of how labor and management were able to work things out.

15 hour days, 6 days a week, no benefits, poor working conditions, company stores, Pinkerton Detective agency and all kinds of other stuff aren't exactly examples of sorting things out. If it wasn't for the government workers would not have the things they have now.

Our government, economy and country works best when there is an appropriate balance between government, labor and management. When it gets too far to one side of the other is when it goes haywire. Right now - we got haywire.

The gov't intervention you reference at the turn of the last century that solved all the labor problems is a direct ancestor of the player's union and the working salaries (outrageous bonuses for new players) you complain about now. You can't have it both ways. Either you agree to direct gov't regulation in your economics (See GM, Bank of America) or you don't (See Ford, USAA).

Bottom line: why do we care what these guys make? It is none of our business. If you argue that it is imperative for the world to know & restrict what Strasburg's bonus will be this year, then it is equally imperative for you to publicize your compensation package for society's approval & accept a potential restriction of your income.

quote:

Bottom line: why do we care what these guys make? It is none of our business.

Sure it is. That money has to come from somewhere! The money we spend to go to the games, buy food, apparel, whatever all goes to help pay those kinds of things. The more they give out to players, the more they'll charge!

But you have the choice not to pay their prices; not to purchase their product. When you stop supporting their product, then prices will come down accordingly. Money spent on baseball entertainment is discretionary spending. Take your discretionary money someplace else that is more affordable.