Most Difficult Positions

Pitcher. You have to mentally be in every pitch and the pressure of the whole game is on you.

catcher is the most challenging - physically and mentally - no pitches off and you play every day

A good catcher makes a pitcher better - not certain the reverse is true

There is really no argument here, it is a catcher period, end of story. Remove catcher from the equation and you can have a discussion.

Pitcher, of course.

They don't give wins and losses to any other position.




And, of course, it's the most dangerous position.

(catcher) removed. now can we have a discussion?
I stipulate it's the toughest by far. What I mean is what position is presented with the toughest plays to pull off on a regular basis. Where speed, athletics, arm, glove all have to be top notch.

They dont call 3b the "hot corner" for no reason! Longest infield throw across body. Not likely to "win" this discussion - but very tough to play well.

I would say pitcher. SS makes 1 bad throw and he might get away with it. Pitcher makes 1 bad pitch, ala Tim Lincecum in yesterday's game and the team and the pitcher gets a loss.

No love for LF? Seriously, you face a good team with Left handed hitter who can take it Opposite field, it's a nightmare. The tailing is ALWAYS crazy regardless.

Hands down SS first, CF second and then catcher. My opinion is based on the OP criteria. Speed, athletics, arm and glove. SS needs speed to cover range, strong arm for throws from the hole, good glove and the athletic ability to throw from akward positions and on the run. CF, speed to cover range, good glove, strong arm for throws home and of course the circus catches. I give the SS an edge over the CF because it requires more skills over all to play than CF (ground balls pop ups, turning double plays etc...). Catcher is next, good glove to receive and block pitches, strong arm to throw guys out. Okay all you catcher bring it on.

OP offered several different criteria...

"most difficult position" - catcher.

"most difficult play to pull off" - hard shot straight over LF head, not a "leap at the fence" but the fence is involved. It gets there quicker than it does to other OF spots, sometimes it hooks, sometimes not. How many times do you see good MLB OF's wave at this one and look silly.

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Originally posted by cball:
what position is presented with the toughest plays to pull off on a regular basis. Where speed, athletics, arm, glove all have to be top notch.

OK, this one - SS

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No love for LF?

Nope....wins for easiest position

It's all relative....left fielders are usually known for their bat...Bonds, Ramirez, etc..

I'm not sure that 'most difficult' is the right way to describe it either. Should the discussion be 'Which position requires the most tools'?

most difficult play to pull off (REVISED) - before my previous post, I was going to say something about any play where the ball is in the air and a player has to dive and a fence or wall is involved.
I just checked out ESPN highlights and Orlando Hudson got taken off on a cart after he dove into the wall head first chasing down a pop fly.

Look at the positions where to be a pro you don't have to hit well, just being good defensively is enough to get you a job in the MLB: catcher, pitcher, SS.

I rank catcher first because you have to field, receive, block, throw, lead, call games, and be a psychologist, and you have to do it every day. If you don't have your A game that day, they aren't going to pull you in the 5th and have someone else pick up the slack - you gotta gut it out. And you get hit in places no man likes to talk about.

My son is a catcher, but I am completely objective.

Finally! Someone speaks sensibly. How many players are willing to squat in the dirt for a 9 inning game in the 100+ heat facing a pitcher throwing 95mph all while another fellow is merely inches in front of said catcher trying to hit a ball with a little wooden stick?

When they are young, all the kids want to pitch and none want to catch. There's a reason for that! Many are called, few are chosen.

You guessed it - - my son's a catcher! At 19, his knees hurt almost constantly, he has suffered a concussion from a home plate collision, he has been hit by wild pitches in unmentionable places and much more. He wouldn't change positions for anything and his dad and I are so proud of the mental toughness he has developed!

There seems to be this misconception by some that catchers are just some fat slow kid you stick behind the plate because its a place you can hide him. In order to play this position and play it at a high level you have to be a very good athlete. You have to have tremendous hands. You have to dedicate your entire baseball career to learning this position. You have to be willing to get beat up and still perform to the level that is required of you. You walk off the field after every game spent. You have to play every pitch. You can never take a pitch off. You will have to make a play on every pitch. If you play a great game most people will never even notice. If you make one bad play everyone will. You are expected to do many things outside of simply playing the game. And it is expected of you. You will have to hit and then run the bags after 2 or 3 hours of playing this position when sometimes your legs feel like jelly. Your forearm is screaming from the fastball in the dirt you blocked in the 2nd inning. Your thigh got nicked by a bunt attempt that was fouled off in the 5th. And the list goes on and on.

You take a look at every team huddle after a game. Every single game. Find the guy covered in sweat no matter what the temp is that day. Find the guy covered in dirt no matter how many base runners you had that day. Find the guy spent, exhausted - its the catcher.

The same guy that will be expected to catch the next day and do it at the same level he did the day before. And if its an off day he will be in the bull pen working with the pitchers doing it all over again. He will face numerous pressure situations in every game. Runners on third and the breaking pitches intentionally thrown in the dirt. Fastballs called inside that are thrown outside in the dirt. Making bunt calls, defensive calls, cut calls, calling pitches, and getting drilled by the coach if he makes 100 plays in a row but fails to make the 101st up to standard. And thats in one game.

When these discussions come up there are two positions that need to be left off the list , period. Catcher and Pitcher.

You can play SS an entire game and get one or two balls hit at you. On a busy night 7 or 8. There is no more skill required to play SS than Catcher. Its a different skill set but still a unique skill. When you have watched a catcher that does it right pitch after pitch , game after game and you know what it takes to play this position at a high level then the discussion is over.

If you have ever coached a legit level of baseball or ever actually seen what it takes to play this position at a high level I think you would agree with me. No one invests more than a catcher to get back there and do it at a high level. No one invests more on game day each and every pitch of the game. And the skill it requires to play this position at a high level is very unique.

Ill throw a curve in here and make a separate category for the position that has the highest difference between how difficult people believe it to be, and how hard it actually is to play it. For that odd category, I think first base and third base fit the best. Maybe its because you can see the greatest variation there from just ok players to truly great ones, imo.

I'm not going to argue about catcher being difficult to play. Very physically demanding with upper level skills required. The psychological makeup at catcher and pitcher are more demanding than any other position since they are in on every play. Shortstop ranks third in psychological demands, since you are going to make the most errors of anyone on the team.

Seems to me the hardest position is the one your son plays....

My son is a pitcher and I will say catcher is the hardest. I wont repeat what has been said, but I can see a big difference in the way my son pitches based on who is catching him. Granted, I tell him all the time he has to mentally pitch his game no matter who is back there, but I can see a huge difference both in high school and summer ball based on who is the catcher. A great catcher can make his pitcher a lot better.

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I can see a big difference in the way my son pitches based on who is catching him.

You got that right. A great catcher absolutely makes his pitcher better...he makes his whole team better.

Just an opinion but would say c, then ss, 2b cf

Catcher, everyone else can make a mistake, but, if they get by the catcher, it puts a run on the board.

Aside from P & C, all positions are about the same. With that out of the way, I've often heard from outfielders that RF was the hardest to play because of the angle the ball comes at you and the RF has the longest throws to make. Many all-star kids who wind up on HS teams rarely play RF until they get on a team full of all-stars all capable of playing SS but somebody has to play the other 7 positions.

My son liked RF because he had the arm and knew a lot of players who were outfielders that RF was their least favorite position. I think that's why my son liked RF. He played it often because of his arm and fielded the position well and was one of the few I've heard say they were very comfortable in RF. I've seen HS rightfielders struggle from lack of experience so what my son once told me probably has some merit.

He also played CF and he told me it was the easiest OF position to play because he saw the ball off the bat real well and could get to many balls in center. He had enough speed in CF but always played on teams with someone who was always a little faster so with his arm, RF was a natural for him.

The positions he played the least were 1B, 2B 3B and LF although he has played them all 9 positions at one time or another thru HS, I think the most difficult he would say for him would've been catcher because of the wear & tear. He felt he could play any position or was willing to play whatever position gave him the best shot at making the HS team and getting in the starting lineup.

each position is difficult

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Originally posted by TRhit:
each position is difficult

I totally agree. It comes down to the player on where he is most comfortable and profiles the best.

quote:

"Dad, which girl is prettiest?"

Just think of this thread as the pageant.

I guess catcher would win Most Congenial

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Originally posted by cball:
(catcher) removed. now can we have a discussion?
I stipulate it's the toughest by far. What I mean is what position is presented with the toughest plays to pull off on a regular basis. Where speed, athletics, arm, glove all have to be top notch.

No disrespect to any of the posters, but based on the OP post, I still stick with my answer SS. I agree catcher is probably the most physically demanding and most important besides the pitcher, but based on the Tools the OP is asking its the SS. BTW, my son plays both SS and catcher.

The argument was pretty much settle a hundred + years ago. Pitcher 1. Catcher 2. !b 3. 2b 4. 3b 5. ss 6. lf 7. cf 8. rf 9. Seems about right

"As a pitcher you can't win the game, you can only lose it"

Position no. 2, no doubt. A catcher is not only a tough position to play, but he must also manager the pitcher and infield. It takes a special type of kid to handle this.

Second part of your questions, "Also what do you think is the most difficult play to pull off?"

An infielder or outfielder running straight back away from home plate to make an over the shoulder catch of a fly ball.

Back in the old days I practiced this catch from SS and made a ton of plays to rob Texas League hits. Today I see these balls drop or missed at all levels. Just last weekend I saw a 1B and a 2B totally whiff in MLB games.

I'd recommend asking one of the SABERweenie posters from this site to go see if they can pull a trend out of Total Chances and Errors by position.

Maybe it could provide some insights...

You asked which was the most difficult position, not the most important.
I have to go with leaving the catcher out of the discussion. So ss, 3b (based on what wraggarm has suggested).

JMO.

quote:

Originally posted by LionPop:
Second part of your questions, "Also what do you think is the most difficult play to pull off?"

An infielder or outfielder running straight back away from home plate to make an over the shoulder catch of a fly ball.

Back in the old days I practiced this catch from SS and made a ton of plays to rob Texas League hits. Today I see these balls drop or missed at all levels. Just last weekend I saw a 1B and a 2B totally whiff in MLB games.

The running over the head catch by CF running up Tal's hill at minute made would be hard to top in difficulty.

quote:

Originally posted by cball:
The running over the head catch by CF running up Tal's hill at minute made would be hard to top in difficulty.

But easy to beat in frequency of occurrence.

Agree with both of you!

Everyone agrees that the most physically challenging position is behind the dish, hands down. And from a mental standpoint, no doubt the most difficult position is on the bump. But...IMHO, the shortstop is the winner here!

Catcher's aren't expected to hit! If they do, it's a Major bonus. Most catchers get a break, and rest 1-2 games per week, and in many cases share the load. Let's face it, there aren't many Johnny Bench's, Mike Piazza's, and Ivan Rodriguez's out on the diamond. Buster Posey may be moved to another position when he returns from injury? Heck, even Mauer has been working out at 1B.

I'd give the nod to starting pitchers, but they're only on the field every 4-5 days...a closer on a team that is in the race would make my top three because of the added pressure, but again, the closer is not on the field every day.

Now, if we look back 15-20 plus years ago, shortstop was a "Defense First" position. Like today's catcher's, if you could hit, it was a bonus! The modern day shortstop is now expected to play great defense and swing the bat. If they hit, but struggle on defense, they're moved to another position. If they play "Gold Glove" D, but struggle at the plate...they become a utility player and/or a back up late inning defensive replacement. Shortstop is the Most Difficult Position...and BTW, my son is a RHP/OF.

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Where speed, athletics, arm, glove all have to be top notch.

I say catcher for the reasons stated but I'm going to use standards mentioned above.

Speed - most are going to say that catchers will require the least amount of speed but I think most people don't realize how much speed catchers need. A catcher better get up the line on back ups to first when you got that ball in the hole the IF is probably going to make a bad throw on. Catcher not there then that guy gets another base. Or on a bunt defense with a runner on first and the third baseman fields it. The catcher has to get down the line to cover first.

Glove - this is a no brainer. This guy is catching a guy throwing 90 some MPH. He's catching a guy who can make the ball drop off the table. A guy who can make the ball go sideways, change speed. He has to catch that ball without letting his glove move whereas all the other players can give a little. You have no idea how hard that low outside pitch is to stick. Now factor in plays at the plate. You got this throw coming in with a guy who has the intention to knock the living heck out of you and it's legal. You have to focus on the ball, catch it and brace for impact or react for a tag while wearing a mitt not exactly the greatest for this. You call for a low outside fastball and the pitcher unleases a 90 some MPH fastball up and in. The catche has to catch this. He has to field bunts and scoop balls out of the dirt.

Arm - a catcher has to throw the ball about 4 feet off the ground to a bag 127 feet away with no momentum. Coming from a squat to throw the ball that far and that accurately without any momentum is very tough. OF can use the crowhop and IF can take a few shuffle steps to generate momentum but a catcher has to catch and throw. On bunts it's slightly easier but you still have to move with shin guards on and those toe flaps flopping everywhere. The amount of footwork used for throwing a pickoff to first base is the toughest on the field for any position.

Athletics - While everything I said takes a ton of athleticism what sets catchers apart is that 90 some MPH pitch that's an inbetweener. It's coming in there and you're not sure if it's going to bounce or not. Do you block or glove it? Once you decide to go with block it takes a ton of athleticism to go from a squat, locate the spot where the ball is going to hit and then get over there in proper blocking postion. If you don't think blocking requires athleticism then get your son and go out in the backyard and practice some. You will be amazed.

I would also vote that the most physically demanding position is catching (pitching is in a league of its own and I dont think you can compare a regular position to pitching).

However the most difficult position from an athletic perspective is ss, no doubt. SS don't get second chances on anything hit to them, either make the play clean or the runner is safe. Also they field and throw in milliseconds from every possible angle from just about everywhere on the infield.

Is it me or are seeing more unbelievably athletic plays at ss this year than ever before?

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Originally posted by coach2709:

quote:

Where speed, athletics, arm, glove all have to be top notch.

I say catcher for the reasons stated but I'm going to use standards mentioned above.

Speed - most are going to say that catchers will require the least amount of speed but I think most people don't realize how much speed catchers need. A catcher better get up the line on back ups to first when you got that ball in the hole the IF is probably going to make a bad throw on. Catcher not there then that guy gets another base. Or on a bunt defense with a runner on first and the third baseman fields it. The catcher has to get down the line to cover first.

Glove - this is a no brainer. This guy is catching a guy throwing 90 some MPH. He's catching a guy who can make the ball drop off the table. A guy who can make the ball go sideways, change speed. He has to catch that ball without letting his glove move whereas all the other players can give a little. You have no idea how hard that low outside pitch is to stick. Now factor in plays at the plate. You got this throw coming in with a guy who has the intention to knock the living heck out of you and it's legal. You have to focus on the ball, catch it and brace for impact or react for a tag while wearing a mitt not exactly the greatest for this. You call for a low outside fastball and the pitcher unleases a 90 some MPH fastball up and in. The catche has to catch this. He has to field bunts and scoop balls out of the dirt.

Arm - a catcher has to throw the ball about 4 feet off the ground to a bag 127 feet away with no momentum. Coming from a squat to throw the ball that far and that accurately without any momentum is very tough. OF can use the crowhop and IF can take a few shuffle steps to generate momentum but a catcher has to catch and throw. On bunts it's slightly easier but you still have to move with shin guards on and those toe flaps flopping everywhere. The amount of footwork used for throwing a pickoff to first base is the toughest on the field for any position.

Athletics - While everything I said takes a ton of athleticism what sets catchers apart is that 90 some MPH pitch that's an inbetweener. It's coming in there and you're not sure if it's going to bounce or not. Do you block or glove it? Once you decide to go with block it takes a ton of athleticism to go from a squat, locate the spot where the ball is going to hit and then get over there in proper blocking postion. If you don't think blocking requires athleticism then get your son and go out in the backyard and practice some. You will be amazed.

Have too respectfully disagree, speed is not a requirement for the catcher to cover down the line, he does need to hustle and get down there, and being a little faster will not make a difference the majority of the time. Blocking does not take that much athleticism, its a reactionary response with good technique and most players can do it given the right instructions and practice. Making plays at short requires a certain amount of athleticism that cannot be taught. Like I said catchers need to be the toughest player out there, but the SS overall is your best athlete and has all the tools covered.

Respectfully disagree with above.

It takes a tremendous amount of athletism to move your body and block correctly with a ball coming in at 90mph and runners on base. No ones mentioned quickness yet, both of mind and body. A catcher has to go from a squat to getting a ball 127 feet accurately and as fast as possible while still catching the ball and taking everything happening in front of him on the field at the same time. A catchers reaction time has to be the quickest on the field. A ball to SS or 2nd base still gives the fielder time to see what's going on around him, if a runners going to third or home etc. A catcher has to catch the ball and make a decision what to do in a fraction of that time. Ask a fielder to wear a hood, then find a pop up behind him, not so easy. Pick off a runner at first on your knees?, Make a throw to second before the dust settles after a collision at home. Maybe not the same type of athletism as short but athletism non the less. The question was the most difficult position, I don't think any position needs as many tools as a catcher.