NBA Player comes out

Obviously our country will be more "accepting" of his decision now than it used to be.  That being said, there are some players that may not be.  I hope that's not the case for him.

My first reaction is, it's about time! The more people come out and live openly, displaying generally the same needs and goals and aspirations as everybody else, the better.  We all need to understand each other better, whether divided by sexual orientation, race, gender, culture, religion...bottom line, people really are not all that different at their core.

 

i have to say, the first thing I did when I read the article was to click on the link to Jason Collins' brother Jarron’s reaction, because like him, I went through the experience of having a brother tell me he was gay (I use past tense because unfortunately, I lost my brother to AIDS nearly 20 years ago...I miss him dearly and think of him in some large or small way every day). I remember some of the same feelings Jarron expresses - having no idea (though as time passed and I thought about it, many things began to make more sense and there were clues that I missed), feeling foremost that I loved my brother and would continue to love and support him no matter what, as he pursued the same simple things in life that we all want and take for granted, but which aren't all that simple for gay people.  Most of all, I remember the feeling Jarron expresses, of willingness to "protect" his brother if need be.  I think that came from an understanding that life was just going to be tougher for my brother than it was for me.  I was sad about that, and concerned that he might mistake that sadness for disapproval - when in reality, for me it was never about approval or disapproval it just was what it was, and was not something I even felt there was a choice about "approving" or not.

 

That was only my reality for the eight more years he would live, but in many ways they were the eight richest years of our relationship.  I'm very glad he came out, for both his own happiness and for the fuller understanding and richer relationship it allowed us to develop.

 

i used to be hesitant to discuss this with people whom I didn't know well.  I guess I was afraid that people would prejudge me, just as they sometimes judged my brother.  How foolish that was!  Now, I have the strength of character to fully stand up for my family and myself.  In fact, it is a great time saver - I have no time for the people who would do what I feared they might, anyway!

 

Anyway, sorry for the personal digression, but I am proud of both Collins brothers today....

Hear, Hear! for Jason Collins and you EdgarFan.

 

That is a great post.

Couldn't agree more. 

I had a few reactions:

 

• What a well written piece. He obviously attended class while at Stanford, too.
• I hope Twitter goes crazy with support from other current players.
• It's about time.
• I hope this brings us one step closer to the day when this is no longer a national headline.

 

 

2013 Parent- seems to be a good response thus far. https://twitter.com/kobebryant...s/328901917507989504

Nice post Edgar...really nice for you to share such personal thoughts.  Powerful!

Thank you all for the kind words.  I really don't mean to upstage this important moment in the sports world with my personal story.  I just couldn't help but think about all that when I read Jason Collins' story.  I'm glad that anyone would be moved or want to hear my personal story, but don't want to diminish Jason Collins' moment in any way....

You didn't diminish it, you enhanced it.  Good stuff! 

Many more, too. http://espn.go.com/sportsnatio...collins-announcement

 

I agree with JB....your post enhanced this thread, thanks for sharing EdgarFan.

 

It's amazing that Jason Collins coming out has moved Tim Tebow's release from the Jets this morning to the back page, but that's where we're currently at in our society. With that said, I wouldn't be surprised if we see a trickle down affect in major sports, and a few more athletes come out in the near future...especially if the reactions remain positive.

 

I'll offer another personal story, though this one might be a little more directly addressing the point NYdad2017 is making,

 

For the last couple of years, my son has played summer ball with a good player who is widely known in our area.  Since he was 13, there have been rumors and whispers that that player was gay, or perhaps bisexual.  Even though early-to-mid-teens might be the worst period for boys to express disapproval and lack of acceptance, as they struggle to find their own identities, this has proven to be not much of an issue on my son's team. That kid has a bit of a distant relationship with many of the other players, but mostly because that is part of his personality, and also because he can be a bit odd at times and seems to enjoy provoking his teammates with odd or provocative comments.  There is certainly acceptance of and appreciation for him and his contributions as a teammate though.  

 

Things have definitely changed over the past 5-10-20 years, and these young guys are right at the forefront of it.  I truly think most of them simply don't care - they just want a good teammate.

 

It's older folks, people of my generation and older, who have been slower to come around - but they're coming around, too.

 

One thing my experience taught me is it isn't really about "acceptance" or "approval" so much as it is about tolerance, at least at first.  Tolerance isn't the same thing as approval or acceptance.  The only thing I strongly feel everyone should "accept" is the right of everyone to the pursuit of a happy life.  Along the way, though, many people will move past simple tolerance, towards understanding, and eventually full acceptance.  On a societal level, we've witnessed this in the general public attitude towards gays in just this past decade or so.  Kids my son'n age don't really know anything any different, and the "kids" in the NBA aren't really that much older.

 

i have a feeling that Jason Collins' announcement could prove to be a watershed moment, where we all take a full step forward....

Do you have to celebrate his announcement?  I think you can accept without celebrating.  I find it interesting Alphonso Smith is getting attacked for “I have the RIGHT to not give that behavior any applause; I love everyone-don't hate anyone; not praising it!”

He comes out as a free agent that most likely won't get picked up by any team anyways; allows him to play the Martyr card.  I'm sorry but why is tolerance not enough?  I don't and won't accept his lifestyle choice as anything positive.  I will tolerate it but I don't have to celebrate, endorse nor accept. I don't celebrate nor encourage sinful behavior that goes against our Lord. This is NOT limited to the gay lifestyle.  You can include, drunkards, pre-marital sex, adultur, theft, lying, etc.

The courage will be those players who will stand up for their believes knowing that the thought police will call them bigots and homophobic and hate mongers for not celebrating it. We see the hatred spewed at Tim Tebow for confessing his faith; I can't imagine the hatred one will get for standing against the group think crowd.

I don't think people are celebrating the announcement or the behavior as much as the courage it takes to come out.  Like I said, I don't think anybody is insisting on acceptance, just asking for tolerance (which, I believe, is just as Christian a response as any offered; remember "Love thy neighbor" and "live and let live").

I'm too old to even care that much. It is simply one of those things I will never be able to understand.

 

What does impress me very much is "EdgarFan". I've definitely become a EdgarFan FAN!

Thank you, PG. 

 

It's funny, when you say "it is simply one of those things I will never be able to understand" I think I know what you mean, and maybe it goes a bit toward what TX-Husker and OA5II are expressing, too.  Of course, on some level, none of us who are straight can "understand" - we're not built to! I remember telling my brother that I still loved and supported him as much as I ever did, but I didn't really understand or want to think about what he did in the bedroom (and come to think of it, I don't really want to think much about what ANYBODY else does in the bedroom).  He told me he didn't really want to think about what I did in the bedroom, either.  I remember pausing to think, "well, that's fair."  

In the end, I think all gay people want from us is what they give to us: without necessarily "understanding" what we do in the bedroom, most treat us with dignity, tolerance and respect, and most of us feel entitled to that treatment.  "Do unto others...."

The irony of demanding privacy in the bedroom and then issuing public statements about it in every profession is lost on some.

Yup, me too! 

To be perfectly honest I could care less if he is gay or not.  I could care less if any athlete, celebrity, student, friend or whoever is gay - I just don't care.  I have so much more in my life to worry about than what someone does in their own private life.  Personally, I'm not in favor of homosexuality nor do I wish to be around it but I'm also not a big fan of straight couples going at it in public.  What you want to do in the privacy of your own home is up to you.  It's none of my business.

 

As for the religious angle of it - I still don't care and I am a Christian.  I know what the bible says about how it's wrong but I also know there is only one person who can pass judgment and I'm not Him.  If that's who they are then they are the ones who have to be judged one day just like I do.

 

If a gay, straight, white, black, Asian, Hispanic, fat, skinny, ugly or pretty person is good to others, tries to live a good life, is a productive member of society and is just a good person then I can get along with you.  I teach with a guy who's homosexual and he is one of our best teachers and popular teachers.  I've had great conversations with him about many topics.  That dude is cool in my eyes.  Anybody like that is cool in my eyes.

I was a pretty bit occupied with another topic, just getting to this.

 

Thanks for posting the story TD.

 

Thank you Edgarfan. FWIW I have two close first cousins that are openly gay, one with two grown children in their 30's. Where I  live (in a diverse society)  we embraced diversitymany years ago,  as well as my children who have gay friends. I worked for a company that was one of the first in giving significant others health benefits.

 

Coach2709, it doesn't bother me and I myself do not care about how others live their lives.

 

Unfortunetly others do, they can't stand people who are "different" from their beliefs.

 

I taught my kids not to see it as a sexual preference but rather as a choice of  lifestyle, it works so much better for some to understand.

 

I think the problem most people have with people who make this statement is that those people, in theory, are also supposed to hold themselves to the standard of John 8:7, and yet they don't shy away from publicly making such judgments about other people's behavior.

 

Meanwhile, those of us who don't especially concern ourselves with the private behavior of others nor are particularly concerned with living a biblical life seem rather accidentally to do a much better job with that particular biblical lesson.

Tpm,

Unfortunately no one on his future team or in the media spotlight wil be allowed to have an opposing view as we have already seen. Look at the Chris Brousard and Tim Brando being under attack for not celebrating his public display of sexual orientation. Both are fine tolerating but neither endorse nor support and the "tolerance" group are calling for their jobs because they don't think properly.

I always when people love to misapply John 8:7. Jesus didnt say all behavior is allowed and we should never judge anyone nor their behavior and actions. We are not to condemn and since He is the only one that condemn it is an easy law to obey.
It is a cop out for people to do as they please and feel there should be consequences for their actions. Amazing how those that don't believe the Bible are the first to misquote.

Feel free to explain how I misquoted it, or where Jesus condemns anyone.  They're not my rules, so don't explain to me why I have to live by them, try explaining why so many Christians don't think they have to.

John 8 7But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.”8Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground.9When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court.10Straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?”11She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.”]

Matthew 7   1“Do not judge so that you will not be judged.2“For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.3“Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?4“Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye?5“You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.

OA my point was thatt it didn't matter to me one way or the other but tosome it will.
JH I AM SORRY. Thanks for posting the article. I gave credit to the wrong person

I'm sorry where did he sat to continue living in sin?  You preach don't judge but you yourself are judging others. Can't have it both ways.

Where did Jesus define what sin was?  Where did he suggest that those he has just admonished not to pass judgement should define sin so that they can then pass judgement?  Since I don't proclaim to follow his teachings, what bearing does whether or not I'm judging anyone have on anything?

 

Why do Christians feel it's appropriate to ignore the teachings of Jesus when they feel like it, and then get huffy with the people who then point out their hypocrisy?

So your theory is Christians should have no opinion on anything? Can't sit on a jury. Wow.  Nice manipulation of your reading.

Feel free to explain the meaning of the Bible to me.  It seems to be relatively straightforward in suggesting that Christians should not judge the sin of others, or condemn them for their sins.  I suppose in the strictest sense, sitting in judgement on a jury would seem to run counter to that, though the average Christian does seem to play fairly fast and loose with which rules in the Bible apply to what.

 

Note that I'm not suggesting Christians should't be allowed to sit on juries, which would appear to pretty clearly violate the US Constitution   It appears from a cursory Google search that citing moral or religious objections to serving on a jury, while generally not a valid legal reason for being excused from jury duty, will often result in one being excused from a jury by one or more of the parties involved.

Jeez ... If I wanted to read about the clash-of-absolutes fight over gay-straight, Christian or other, I'd go elsewhere -- and I do. Notwithstanding the elegant post by Edgar, I'm just not diggin' all this. PGStaff said "I'm too old to really care that much." Well I'm too focused on baseball and how to help our sons be successful to care at all.

 

This is High School Baseball Web. I vote this thread NOT make Golden Threads.

 

 

 

 

I will throw my old Stem, NC country boy wisdom into this one and then quietly go away from this topic.

 

I have my beliefs. They are rooted in how I was raised. In the Bible I read. In the way I was brought up. There are many things people do that I do not believe in. I am sure there are many things I do others don't believe in. I respect the right that others have to live their life the way they believe is best. I also respect their right to have whatever opinion they have on any topic they want to bring up. I also believe I have those same rights. It doesn't mean I agree with their choices. It just means I will leave the judgement of those decisions and choices up to the one and only one that can and will do that. That certainly is not me.

 

I do find it very ironic that the people that seem to the scream the loudest about tolerance of others choices and views show the least amount of tolerance to those that oppose their views. Let me make this clear. I do not have to accept that being Gay is normal, fine, Ok, etc etc. I can believe that is is wrong. I can believe that it is a sin. I can believe that its a life style that is wrong. And still not be a bad person. I can still treat everyone and that means everyone with respect and kindness. And still not believe in the way they live their life.

 

Now some seem to believe that if you don't fall in line with the new way of thinking that your a racist, bigot, red neck, backwoods hillbilly, Bible thumping, idiot. That's the type of intolerance that puzzles me in all of this. Unless we all celebrate this as as some type of historical achievement we are the one's with a problem.

 

I have people in my extended family who are gay. Its fine. I still love them. I treat them the same as any member of my family because they are. If your going to scream tolerance and kindness them extend it even to those that oppose your views. Anything less is being a total hypocrite. Why do people think they have the right to demand that others accept something they don't believe is right? We can still treat everyone with respect and kindness even if we don't agree with their life style. But it seems thats not enough for some people. No, were supposed to embrace it. Sorry I don't have to and I am not going to.

 

But hey he got a call from the President and is now some sort of hero for letting the world know he is gay. For standing up and blazing the trail for all the other oppressed gay professional athletes. Really? Crazy world we live in.

It's good to see that irony is alive and well.

You are a versatile contributer here Coach May!

 

 

 

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-J...apologizes-Broussard

I posted the link to gather some feelings here, and I see that it has worked. 

 

I was raised by a South African father that is naturalized in the United States and an American mother that was raised in Brazil. My mother's father was Jewish, her mother and stepfather Catholic. She was raised Catholic. My father is Jewish, both paternally and maternally.

 

I was raised Jewish in the NYC metro area, one of the most diverse areas in the country. The city in which I grew up was extremely diverse...with many different racial, religious and sexual backgrounds. I was raised in a house that was extremely open for personal discussion and interpretation of all of the above. I've attended religious ceremonies for many different religions and while I do resonate with many of the moral teachings of religions, I do not consider myself an overly religious man.

 

I don't pass judgment on others based on their religious affiliation, their race or their sexual orientation. This could be a product of the environment I grew up in, or a product of my generation. No one is required to be accepting or tolerant. At the same time, I don't believe anyone has the right to be judgmental.

 

I don't agree with some of the sentiments that OA5II spoke about. That does not make me right or wrong, just as it does not make him right or wrong. The beauty of the country that we live in is that we are capable of forming our own opinions based on our own interpretations. OA5II is entitled to the same amount of opinions as I am, as Kobe Bryant is, as Coach May is, as TPM is, as Chris Broussard is. I respect his feelings on this topic and trust that he respects mine. Its a wonderful thing.

 

I personally feel as though it is a good thing that Jason Collins publicly came out. I also feel as though the public response- positive or negative- is overwhelmingly exaggerated. As noted here by many others, it is no one's place to judge. If you disagree with his lifestyle choices, that's fine. You live your life and he lives his. No harm done.

 

I do hope for a few things to result from this. I hope that people aren't tentative and scared to express their true emotions. I also hope that people recognize that a personal lifestyle choice is just that- personal. Your personal lifestyle choice shouldn't effect your ability to do your job on an everyday basis.

 

I hope that if Jason Collins finds a place to play next season, it is not some publicity stunt. 

 

I wouldn't care if a teammate of mine had purple skin with green hair, 3 teeth, 4 arms and one foot and was in a relationship with a fellow purple-skinned individual...male or female. If they can play, they're more than welcome on my team.

Coach May, well stated.

 Two points and I'll bop out of this lightning rod of a topic: (1). The Golden Rule has no exceptions as far as I know. (2) I was always of the understanding that the lady at the well's sin was sex outside of marriage-male, female, same sex, different sex, whatever...I always thought the sin was ANY relations outside of marriage.

 

      Through grace, I understand there are things I will never understand. And that's okay. And the Golden Rule still has no exceptions.

 

  

While I don't approve of Collins' homosexuality on a personal nature, I would never treat him or a similar person differently.  Like it or not homosexuality, like heterosexuality, has existed for thousands of years.  

 

I don't applaud his announcement as something that we should all rejoice over.  It's something that all of us know exists.  I do applaud his courage for saying it while he is still an active player.

 

Being in the NY Metro area like JH, I remember the endless comments and questions that Mike Piazza received about his lifestyle back in the day.  I never really cared.  He played for my favorite team and all that was important to me was what he did on the field.  Collins won't have to be subjected to the same comments or worry about being outed, as he said, by TMZ.  Growing up in this area does grant you a different take on life.  I've lived, for brief periods of time, in North Carolina, Colorado and California.  Every area is different and the people will react as they've been taught.

 

But, in a matter such as this, I don't feel that it is my place to judge him.  Had he committed a crime, which some people believe homosexuality is, I would.

 

I do not believe that telling the media that he is gay will solve his problem of being miserable (his word, not mine).  Based on the headline sentence that I keep seeing tagged to this story something like this.....I am black, 34, in the NBA, and gay...... I hope at my funeral they do not use my race, age, job, and sexual preference to describe me.  I hope I am remembered as being a caring and loving husband, son, friend, and father. And hopefully one day a doting grand-father.  There are some things that matter in this world and some that do not......as for me, this is one that does not.

There are many well written points in this string on both sides of the discussion.  Like others, I too am tired of the debate.  But my exhaustion comes not from the endless points.  Instead it comes from how the landscape has so sadly changed from being a nation of people agreeing about what makes us all so similar (even with our differences) to now having to constantly talk about, and of course, “celebrate” our differences.  Regardless of the labels so many rush to attach themselves with today, we all are much more alike than different.  We all “belong” to something so much bigger and better than the narrow labels people are using today.  I’m just tired of the constant need people have grown to expect; “look at me, I’m different” and “if you don’t tell me I’m okay, you’re a bigot, racist, homo-phobic, socialist, etc.”  If someone wants to be “defined” as gay, fine.  If someone doesn’t want to be “defined” as gay, that’s equally fine.  But what really needs to change is the need to be labeled as different and expect everyone to celebrate it or be quiet.  This view has become the norm and is the real intolerance.  But even worse is the divisiveness the endless craving for acceptance based on our differences.  It would be so much better and binding if we focus on what makes us similar…like baseball.