NBA Player comes out

Why is that only the left has an agenda?

FWIW, I don't think Broussard should be fired for saying what he said.  Assuming he's a good basketball analyst (I wouldn't know), I'm sure there are plenty of idiots at ESPN who should go before he does.  That said, business owners aren't generally kind to employees that get mired in public controversies, so it wouldn't surprise me.

So that makes it all okay?

Like the hate crime legislation which actually tries to inflict a harsher punishment on criminal because his crime was motivated by bias?  

What kind of sense does that make?

If a homosexual is harmed in a violent crime, does it make the crime WORSE because of this?  The only true answer to that is NO.  

Guess what, we are humans living among humans.  People have been harming each other since the dawn of time. It will never stop.  It simply is what it is.  

 

If people kept their personal lives personal none of this would an issue.  A former co-worker is gay.  He never talked about it at work (because it's unprofessional - REGARDLESS of his lifestyle).  I ran into him months after he changed jobs, he was walking with another man, and I assumed it was more than just a friend.  We chatted for a bit, and his friend asked me if I knew that he was gay.

I answered him honestly. No, I didn't know, but why the heck would I care if he was gay?  Why would I even be asking that question of myself?  He was a co-worker.

 

The guy seemed to get a bit offended.  I told him that his personal life was exactly that - his PERSONAL life.  Why would I care?

 

The former co-worker laughed and told me that's what he figured I would say.

 

Your statement above just blows my mind.  You are trying to justify people trying to FORCE ACCEPTANCE of their PERSONAL beliefs on other people, because of the mistreatment they suffered, at the hands of OTHERS.  No thanks.  Not buying it.

 

While I read the article about Jason Collins I distinctly remember him saying something about not commenting on if he's in a relationship and he said something to the effect of "..my personal life is my personal life."

 

That's ironic.  You can't have it both ways. It stopped being his PERSONAL life the minute he made it PUBLIC.  That's his choice.  Not mine.  It's not my life.  

 

I had a co-worker ask me once "you never mentioned how you voted."  My answer was "You're right I didn't."  He kept waiting for me to say something else, which I never did.

 

Maybe that says it all.

They aren't. But they are the overwhelming voice in the mainstream media.  The far left and far right have more in common then anyone will ever admit.  They both are almost totally incapable of having a rational discussion without personal attacks.  They both view the Freedom of Speech to be a wonderful thing, until that Freedom is used to disagree with them.

 

Besides, the motivation isn't political, ethical or moral for any of them. It's financial.

 

Unless you define mainstream media as every media outlet that isn't conservative, I don't agree with that characterization of the media.  Fox Media, Limbaugh, Beck, Boortz, etc are every bit as mainstream as MSNBC, CNN, whoever.

 

I also think the "far right" has more influence on the public face of conservatism than the "far left" has on liberalism (though I recognize the possibility of my own personal bias in that), but I would agree that the most radical elements on both sides have little use for rational discussion.

You don't think that the people who, for instance, support DOMA are trying to force the acceptance of their beliefs on others?

You spuriously complained about something being forced on you. I'm showing you what it looks like when thing are actually forced on others, sometimes violently. You are in no position to claim that beliefs are being forced on you. No one is making you have feelings for someone of the same sex or trying to physically change you.

Hate crimes are worse than others, because they are meant to inculcate fear in an entire population and make every member of that population a specific target.

As for personal life, do you have pictures of your family anywhere outside your house? Do you go out in public with them? Do you talk about them? You have that ability. Many don't. That is why this is important. It's not a matter of wanting to be defined, it's a matter of being defined by others to the point of marginalization. The only way to combat that is to demarginalize those aspects of life.

I never falsely complained about anything being forced on me. Reread my post.  My post was directed at another poster's comment.  But I'll respond -

What about all the people posting to twitter, blogs and emailing ESPN in regards to the statements made by Chris Broussard?  They wanted him fired. For expressing his opinion about an item brought to the forefront of the Sports news cycle by Collins himself.  It was labeled as "hate speech" by several newspapers and worse by others.  So it's okay for people to speak of their support for an issue (even if their actual support might be simply for the media?) but not their disagreement with an issue?

The hate crime debate has been driven into the ground.  When you say that a crime against someone based on their lifestyle, religion, race etc is WORSE than a crime committed for any other reason, you'll never be able to make that make sense. 

If a man is killed because he's homosexual, and another man is killed because he was robbed, you are saying the homosexual's life is worth more. It's not. It's not worth less, it's not worth more.  Equal is equal. 

Why would people not have the ability to talk about their family? Go out in public? Fear of being judged? Fear of being harmed?  Are they legally not allowed?

The risk of being robbed I would think is much greater than the risk being attacked because of an inherent bias. 

You state "It's not a matter of wanting to be defined, it's a matter of being defined by others to the point of marginalization. The only way to combat that is to demarginalize those aspect of life."

That's where we differ.  Beyond my family and close friends, I really don't care how others "define" me. 

News flash - beyond family and friends, most people don't care whether someone is homosexual or not. 

The real story here is realizing that has a SPECIES we are driven to stereotype and classify things around us.  That's who we are.  Trying to stop that is simply impossible.  Everyone has their preconceptions, thoughts and ideas.  They evolve as we grow, as it should be. 

Making people feel afraid to express there true opinions or beliefs will never end well, for either side.

There's an old saying;

"Don't ask a question if you don't want to hear the answer."

No one is saying that. The issue is the crime is worse. Robbing someone is intended to have no impact on others. Hate crimes are intended to send a message beyond the immediate victim.

Overcoming our animal nature should be something that we aspire to, not something we give up on.

Plus, we take the motivation behind the crime into account in all sorts of ways, there are different "classes" of murder and assault, for instance. I don't know a lot about hate crimes legislation in various jurisdictions, so I'm open to the possibility that it's too broadly defined to be useful, but the idea that we can punish people more (or less) harshly because of the circumstances of the crime they committed is pretty well established.

Here's why this thread is so unfortunate: We come together here to talk about baseball. We do that in part to get away from the stresses of major public policy controversies. We agree or disagree about baseball-related matters without thinking about or caring if the other guy or gal is liberal or conservative. Now we know. Hell, I didn't want to know!

 

No one will change his or her position on gay rights or gay coming-out announcements as a result of what others say on this website, so why in the world are debating it here?

 

I wish the administrators would forklift this whole conversation over to Fox or MSNBC, and steer things back to baseball. What's next, a debate about abortion?

 

 

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the "should" of this statement, but I would point out that I have seen opinions shaped and even changed by dialogue of this type.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c....hardaway/index.html

 

On top of which, do you know how sad a place to live the world would be if what you said was actually true?

Moderator note:

 

Most members who care about this topic have had an opportunity to weigh in.  I'm going to temporarily close this thread.  If, after a couple days or so, someone wants it re-opened, please PM me, and I'll move it to the "Unusually usual" section and let folks flail away at it some more.

 

Regards,