NCAA, Coaches, and Players - Get ready for the Slaughter

ABSORBER posted:

adbono posted:

ABSORBER, the point that me and pedaldad are trying to make is that all incoming freshmen that are on athletic scholarship WILL NOT be on the roster in the spring. Some will be redshirted and some will be encouraged to leave the program at semester break. At some programs I will be surprised if half the incoming freshmen are on the spring roster. 

I get that but my point is this: if you give up now what makes you think you will make it later? And I'm not saying don't transfer to another D1 school now but what's the reality? Mid-major's are all in the same boat. What are the chances? And you would have to get a release from your current commitment. If the coach calls you in the next few months and "offers" the release then by all means, take it--IF you have already found a D1 home at good school.  Of course you can't talk to those schools without getting the release first so how's that going to work? And I already pointed out the very low numbers of Juco players that make it to the D1 level. Not saying it can't be done but why give up your first chance for a lesser second chance? Defeatist?

So sure you may not be on the roster in the Spring but you sure are taking up valuable scholarship money. The coach has already made his scholarship cuts (taking money away) from returning players to make room for you.  So if he cuts you in the fall then sure, try to make the jump then if you still want to play baseball and give up your scholarship. If you are THAT good I'm sure a Juco will take you. And if you are telling me there is no room in Juco by then then you should know it's time to hang up your cleats and attend school for the education. Because every Juco will take another student and if you are that good you will make the roster. If not then you have been fooling yourself (and others) the entire time.

And again, just to be clear, if you aren't on athletic scholarship, then sure, reevaluate what's important to you.

In the top JuCo programs MOST players advance to D1 schools if they want to. In Texas take a look at the roster history at San Jac, McLennan, and Grayson just as examples. If you play 2 years at a really good JuCo you will be more prepared for D1 baseball than if you go D1 out of HS and sit for 2 years (which is what happens to most kids). I’m not advocating widespread bailout but I am saying it would be prudent to develop options now as opposed to later. Hopefully you don’t need to exercise any options but odds are many will. 

ABSORBER posted:

adbono posted:

ABSORBER, the point that me and pedaldad are trying to make is that all incoming freshmen that are on athletic scholarship WILL NOT be on the roster in the spring. Some will be redshirted and some will be encouraged to leave the program at semester break. At some programs I will be surprised if half the incoming freshmen are on the spring roster. 

I get that but my point is this: if you give up now what makes you think you will make it later? And I'm not saying don't transfer to another D1 school now but what's the reality? Mid-major's are all in the same boat. What are the chances? And you would have to get a release from your current commitment. If the coach calls you in the next few months and "offers" the release then by all means, take it--IF you have already found a D1 home at good school.  Of course you can't talk to those schools without getting the release first so how's that going to work? And I already pointed out the very low numbers of Juco players that make it to the D1 level. Not saying it can't be done but why give up your first chance for a lesser second chance? Defeatist?

So sure you may not be on the roster in the Spring but you sure are taking up valuable scholarship money. The coach has already made his scholarship cuts (taking money away) from returning players to make room for you.  So if he cuts you in the fall then sure, try to make the jump then if you still want to play baseball and give up your scholarship. If you are THAT good I'm sure a Juco will take you. And if you are telling me there is no room in Juco by then then you should know it's time to hang up your cleats and attend school for the education. Because every Juco will take another student and if you are that good you will make the roster. If not then you have been fooling yourself (and others) the entire time.

And again, just to be clear, if you aren't on athletic scholarship, then sure, reevaluate what's important to you.

Absorber, with all due respect, and mind you I am saying with all due respect.  Your circular logic is dizzying, or at least you are not explaining your thoughts in a logical manner.

First, I am SO RIGHT about the Ivy's.  I wrote several dozen and you listed 33 players, that's nearly 3 dozen already( an average of more than for per team). I said they had an opportunity to change their rules, just like the NCAA and they (the Ivy's) CHOSE NOT to change their rules.  The NCAA didn't allow players to reset their eligibility clock before, but they changed their rules.

Second, as stated several times, a coach cannot cut a scholarship player except for poor academic performance or violation of team/school rules.  All scholarship players will be on spring rosters if they chose to be.   

You pointed out that very few JUCO players make it to D1.  I guess that depends on your definition of "few".   Check out the 300 D1 rosters and see if you think it is only a "few".  Heck,  many teams  are predominantly JUCO transfers, and nearly every P5 team starts at least 1 or 2 every year.

I applaud you for trying to see the glass as being half full.  The problem in this case is that the glass is too damn small and it runneth over will young baseball talent. 

Pedaldad posted:

Absorber, with all due respect, and mind you I am saying with all due respect.  Your circular logic is dizzying, or at least you are not explaining your thoughts in a logical manner.

First, I am SO RIGHT about the Ivy's.  I wrote several dozen and you listed 33 players, that's nearly 3 dozen already( an average of more than for per team). I said they had an opportunity to change their rules, just like the NCAA and they (the Ivy's) CHOSE NOT to change their rules.  The NCAA didn't allow players to reset their eligibility clock before, but they changed their rules.

Second, as stated several times, a coach cannot cut a scholarship player except for poor academic performance or violation of team/school rules.  All scholarship players will be on spring rosters if they chose to be.   

You pointed out that very few JUCO players make it to D1.  I guess that depends on your definition of "few".   Check out the 300 D1 rosters and see if you think it is only a "few".  Heck,  many teams  are predominantly JUCO transfers, and nearly every P5 team starts at least 1 or 2 every year.

I applaud you for trying to see the glass as being half full.  The problem in this case is that the glass is too damn small and it runneth over will young baseball talent. 

Who changed any rules? The NCAA rules are exactly the same (NCAA 12.8.1.7 Five-Year Rule Waiver). They simply are allowing schools to self-apply waivers to student-athletes whose spring seasons were cut short by COVID-19 (NCAA 12.1.8.7.1 Waiver Criteria and NCAA 12.1.8.7.1.1 Circumstances Beyond Control). So why would Ivy schools consider changing their rules? If they allowed graduate students to participate in athletics they would have to open it up to every graduate student. I wasn't contesting your count of Ivy players in the portal; I was simply pointing out they were all graduate students. I pointed this out simply because you made the following statement in your OP: " Ivy's saw the problem and didn't want any part of it." This statement is not true. What "problem" did they see? They don't allow graduate students to play sports. So what part of my logic do you have a problem understanding?

Your statement that "a coach cannot cut a scholarship player" is not true either. Sure the player counts against the 11.7/27/35 rule for baseball but the coach doesn't have to keep that player on his roster. It just counts against it. So if he cuts that player he would have to set his roster at no more than 34. 

Lastly, I challenge you to find the "many teams" that are "predominantly JUCO transfers." And when I say "few" I mean few as in the number of JUCO players who end up playing D1 compared to the total number of JUCO players overall. Trust me, they are "few".

And now that I've gone back and re-read your OP I realize I did misunderstand your definition of who should be getting ready for the slaughter: returning players.

ABSORBER wrote, “And now that I’ve gone back and re-read your OP I realize I did misunderstand your definition of who should be getting ready for the slaughter: returning players.”

In the 4 years I have been on this board this has to rank right up at the top of the list of most ridiculous things ever said. 

adbono posted:

ABSORBER wrote, “And now that I’ve gone back and re-read your OP I realize I did misunderstand your definition of who should be getting ready for the slaughter: returning players.”

In the 4 years I have been on this board this has to rank right up at the top of the list of most ridiculous things ever said. 

Huh? The fact that I misunderstood? Or that the OP was stating that returning players need to get ready for the slaughter?

ABSORBER posted:

adbono posted:

ABSORBER wrote, “And now that I’ve gone back and re-read your OP I realize I did misunderstand your definition of who should be getting ready for the slaughter: returning players.”

In the 4 years I have been on this board this has to rank right up at the top of the list of most ridiculous things ever said. 

Huh? The fact that I misunderstood? Or that the OP was stating that returning players need to get ready for the slaughter?

And perhaps "misunderstood" was a poor choice. I didn't actually misunderstand the OP but rather all of my posts were arguing for 2020's who signed NLI's to not panic and that they are better off staying the course. And that was in response to adbono's reply that disagreed with the OP's statement. Sometimes when I respond to posts I forget the theme of the OP and instead address the collective comments of all who have posted in response. 

ABSORBER posted:

adbono posted:

ABSORBER wrote, “And now that I’ve gone back and re-read your OP I realize I did misunderstand your definition of who should be getting ready for the slaughter: returning players.”

In the 4 years I have been on this board this has to rank right up at the top of the list of most ridiculous things ever said. 

Huh? The fact that I misunderstood? Or that the OP was stating that returning players need to get ready for the slaughter?

Easy to see you misunderstanding. You also don’t seem to understand that if competitive programs bring corona seniors back they are going to be on the field. At any school where that occurs it will be at the expense of incoming freshmen - who are unproven.  This will be less of an issue at schools in less competitive conferences. But in the top conferences (like SEC, ACC, Big12, etc.) it’s going to be a huge issue. The more 2020 seniors that come back next year the less opportunity for the incoming recruiting class - and that’s the case across the board. Plain and simple. 

I just read an article yesterday where UCONN's baseball coach said he already had to tell an incoming HS player to think about a "gap year" because the player that he was to replace (an all-star Junior 2nd baseman) has elected to come back.  He had that "hard conversation" with another player who was due to get the all-stars scholarship money and told him - sorry, can't give it to you because the all-star is coming back. 

Not a senior, a junior.  Why, because the player knows that he can come back next year and not give up scholarship, playing time, and eligibility.  Furthermore, the all-star 2nd baseman will still have leverage next year in the draft, because the NCAA gave him an additional year and the UCONN coach has no intention of not making room for him.

I bet this incoming freshman told to take "a gap year" and the guy that now doesn't get a scholarship feel like they got slaughtered a little by the NCAA and their coaches.

Pedaldad posted:

I just read an article yesterday where UCONN's baseball coach said he already had to tell an incoming HS player to think about a "gap year" because the player that he was to replace (an all-star Junior 2nd baseman) has elected to come back.  He had that "hard conversation" with another player who was due to get the all-stars scholarship money and told him - sorry, can't give it to you because the all-star is coming back. 

Not a senior, a junior.  Why, because the player knows that he can come back next year and not give up scholarship, playing time, and eligibility.  Furthermore, the all-star 2nd baseman will still have leverage next year in the draft, because the NCAA gave him an additional year and the UCONN coach has no intention of not making room for him.

I bet this incoming freshman told to take "a gap year" and the guy that now doesn't get a scholarship feel like they got slaughtered a little by the NCAA and their coaches.

There will be countless stories just like this one in the coming months. But some people just won’t believe it until it happens to their kid. 

Just an example of a coach looking to find money so current players can keep their scholarship. I'd tell the kid to stay the course until after July 1st. Put the coach on the spot. 

My son is an incoming freshman committed to a strong P5 team with a lot returning. His coach called last week and told him there were 3 kids he was calling to tell them that this wasn’t going to affect them and he was one.  Truth? No idea, but he is getting better everyday.  He is preparing for the next opportunity to play, which is all I can expect.  His velo has increased since we shut down and he is working out. I’m not going to send any doom and gloom messages. He has understood the competition for years.  If he transfers in the future, he does, but I’ve seen him rise to the occasion more than once.  This is his.  I tend to bet on him.

baseballhs posted:

My son is an incoming freshman committed to a strong P5 team with 6 returning. His coach called last week and told him there were 3 kids he was calling to tell them that this wasn’t going to affect them and he was one.  Truth? No idea, but he is getting better everyday.  He is preparing for the next opportunity to play, which is all I can expect.  His velo has increased since we shut down and he is working out. I’m not going to send any doom and gloom messages. He has understood the competition for years.  If he transfers in the future, he does, but I’ve seen him rise to the occasion more than once.  This is his.  I tend to bet on him.

I think that is great that he got that call.  You and your son should feel good and pretty secure about that, especially if he signed an NLI.  And, it sounds like he will rise to the occasion.   Tell him not to let up at all.

But the coach was only calling 3?  Your son is heading to a strong P5, that means they probably have at least 10 or more commits in your son's class.  So how many aren't getting called and told not to worry by the coach?  That is the point.  

Pedaldad posted:

I bet this incoming freshman told to take "a gap year" and the guy that now doesn't get a scholarship feel like they got slaughtered a little by the NCAA and their coaches.

I don't like the NCAA as much as the next guy but this one is not on them. They didn't shorten the draft. Even if they ruled against the athletes and didn't grant another year of eligibility, the draft still went from 40 to 5. Sure seniors are gone, but juniors are back. Instead of 5 juniors leaving maybe 1 gets drafted now. Schools still have at least 10 guys coming in.

While UConn has a very strong program, they aren't going to get hit the hardest. Sure they get 3-5 guys drafted a year, which is very good, but schools like Vanderbilt, UF, Miami, LSU, etc have around 14 between HS signees and rostered players get drafted each year. Now maybe 5 will go, maybe. 

Nobody is safe. Walk-on? We have too many scholarship guys coming back. Contributor on 60% scholarship? Sorry you're good but I can get 2.5 guys for one of you. 25% ride? We're over the 11.7 and you're never going to play. Juco transfer to a D1? We'd prefer to give the money to a younger guy who will be here for all 4. Nobody is free from the slaughter, there are going to be legitimate 5 star prospects who will be told to move on.

Recruiting at P5/strong mid majors  is largely influenced by MLB. They don't need/want more prospects? It shakes up the rosters at the schools with pro talent

PABaseball posted:

Pedaldad posted:

I bet this incoming freshman told to take "a gap year" and the guy that now doesn't get a scholarship feel like they got slaughtered a little by the NCAA and their coaches.

I don't like the NCAA as much as the next guy but this one is not on them. They didn't shorten the draft. Even if they ruled against the athletes and didn't grant another year of eligibility, the draft still went from 40 to 5. Sure seniors are gone, but juniors are back. Instead of 5 juniors leaving maybe 1 gets drafted now. Schools still have at least 10 guys coming in.

While UConn has a very strong program, they aren't going to get hit the hardest. Sure they get 3-5 guys drafted a year, which is very good, but schools like Vanderbilt, UF, Miami, LSU, etc have around 14 between HS signees and rostered players get drafted each year. Now maybe 5 will go, maybe. 

Nobody is safe. Walk-on? We have too many scholarship guys coming back. Contributor on 60% scholarship? Sorry you're good but I can get 2.5 guys for one of you. 25% ride? We're over the 11.7 and you're never going to play. Juco transfer to a D1? We'd prefer to give the money to a younger guy who will be here for all 4. Nobody is free from the slaughter, there are going to be legitimate 5 star prospects who will be told to move on.

Recruiting at P5/strong mid majors  is largely influenced by MLB. They don't need/want more prospects? It shakes up the rosters at the schools with pro talent

 

How much of a role does the draft play for the average d1 team?

Maybe vandy or oregon gets 5 guys drafted in a normal draft but how many get drafted in average or weak d1 programs? 1 or 2  maybe?

Dominik85 posted:

PABaseball posted:

Pedaldad posted:

I bet this incoming freshman told to take "a gap year" and the guy that now doesn't get a scholarship feel like they got slaughtered a little by the NCAA and their coaches.

I don't like the NCAA as much as the next guy but this one is not on them. They didn't shorten the draft. Even if they ruled against the athletes and didn't grant another year of eligibility, the draft still went from 40 to 5. Sure seniors are gone, but juniors are back. Instead of 5 juniors leaving maybe 1 gets drafted now. Schools still have at least 10 guys coming in.

While UConn has a very strong program, they aren't going to get hit the hardest. Sure they get 3-5 guys drafted a year, which is very good, but schools like Vanderbilt, UF, Miami, LSU, etc have around 14 between HS signees and rostered players get drafted each year. Now maybe 5 will go, maybe. 

Nobody is safe. Walk-on? We have too many scholarship guys coming back. Contributor on 60% scholarship? Sorry you're good but I can get 2.5 guys for one of you. 25% ride? We're over the 11.7 and you're never going to play. Juco transfer to a D1? We'd prefer to give the money to a younger guy who will be here for all 4. Nobody is free from the slaughter, there are going to be legitimate 5 star prospects who will be told to move on.

Recruiting at P5/strong mid majors  is largely influenced by MLB. They don't need/want more prospects? It shakes up the rosters at the schools with pro talent

 

How much of a role does the draft play for the average d1 team?

Maybe vandy or oregon gets 5 guys drafted in a normal draft but how many get drafted in average or weak d1 programs? 1 or 2  maybe?

The draft hardly ever affects weak D1 teams and doesn’t affect average D1 teams very much. But those are also the schools that have a lot of upperclassmen because they aren’t leaving school early. 

ABSORBER posted:

Just an example of a coach looking to find money so current players can keep their scholarship. I'd tell the kid to stay the course until after July 1st. Put the coach on the spot. 

I'm all for 2020's staying the course.  Until the coach calls.  Then thank him for the opportunity and tear up your LOI.  Because once you get the call, it's over.  

ABSORBER posted:

Pedaldad posted:

Absorber, with all due respect, and mind you I am saying with all due respect.  Your circular logic is dizzying, or at least you are not explaining your thoughts in a logical manner.

First, I am SO RIGHT about the Ivy's.  I wrote several dozen and you listed 33 players, that's nearly 3 dozen already( an average of more than for per team). I said they had an opportunity to change their rules, just like the NCAA and they (the Ivy's) CHOSE NOT to change their rules.  The NCAA didn't allow players to reset their eligibility clock before, but they changed their rules.

Second, as stated several times, a coach cannot cut a scholarship player except for poor academic performance or violation of team/school rules.  All scholarship players will be on spring rosters if they chose to be.   

You pointed out that very few JUCO players make it to D1.  I guess that depends on your definition of "few".   Check out the 300 D1 rosters and see if you think it is only a "few".  Heck,  many teams  are predominantly JUCO transfers, and nearly every P5 team starts at least 1 or 2 every year.

I applaud you for trying to see the glass as being half full.  The problem in this case is that the glass is too damn small and it runneth over will young baseball talent. 

Who changed any rules? The NCAA rules are exactly the same (NCAA 12.8.1.7 Five-Year Rule Waiver). They simply are allowing schools to self-apply waivers to student-athletes whose spring seasons were cut short by COVID-19 (NCAA 12.1.8.7.1 Waiver Criteria and NCAA 12.1.8.7.1.1 Circumstances Beyond Control). So why would Ivy schools consider changing their rules? If they allowed graduate students to participate in athletics they would have to open it up to every graduate student. I wasn't contesting your count of Ivy players in the portal; I was simply pointing out they were all graduate students. I pointed this out simply because you made the following statement in your OP: " Ivy's saw the problem and didn't want any part of it." This statement is not true. What "problem" did they see? They don't allow graduate students to play sports. So what part of my logic do you have a problem understanding?

Your statement that "a coach cannot cut a scholarship player" is not true either. Sure the player counts against the 11.7/27/35 rule for baseball but the coach doesn't have to keep that player on his roster. It just counts against it. So if he cuts that player he would have to set his roster at no more than 34. 

Lastly, I challenge you to find the "many teams" that are "predominantly JUCO transfers." And when I say "few" I mean few as in the number of JUCO players who end up playing D1 compared to the total number of JUCO players overall. Trust me, they are "few".

And now that I've gone back and re-read your OP I realize I did misunderstand your definition of who should be getting ready for the slaughter: returning players.

The images might be hard to read with max zoom.

Transfers (Overall/JUCO),   -  Line 7

Overall equals  Total number of Transfers

JUCO  equals  Total number of JUCO Transfer.

Note, CBI is still reconciling the information

If stats for gnats was still actively posting I think my head would explode between you 2 guys

Dominik85 posted:

How much of a role does the draft play for the average d1 team?

Maybe vandy or oregon gets 5 guys drafted in a normal draft but how many get drafted in average or weak d1 programs? 1 or 2  maybe?

Not much of a role. Which is why there really isn't an issue for programs 150 down. 

Seniors coming back create a one year problem. There is just some roster congestion. They aren't taking money away from anybody else, they're just taking a spot in the lineup. So 10 guys for another year creates a bit of a backlog and maybe some younger guys redshirt a year now. 42 guys can be managed for a year. 

At a school like Louisville, Miami, etc. They were offering scholarships based on the notion that their juniors would be drafted. They will no longer be losing 5-10 guys. Roster size can be worked around, scholarships can't. They still need to get below 11.7 when they've committed 17.2. It's a scholarship issue not a roster issue. 

old_school posted:

If stats for gnats was still actively posting I think my head would explode between you 2 guys

He is doing his best to satisfy your nostalgic wantings by giving us stats the size of gnats 

old_school posted:

If stats for gnats was still actively posting I think my head would explode between you 2 guys

Just a image.  Website is readily available to see the numbers.

The back and forth on these threads are very interesting, with a lot of wasted time. 

Similar to other social media platforms.

But in the world of social distancing I understand.

adbono posted:

old_school posted:

If stats for gnats was still actively posting I think my head would explode between you 2 guys

He is doing his best to satisfy your nostalgic wantings by giving us stats the size of gnats 

This website has some limitation.  If you want to see the actual data with respects to number of JUCO transfers to 4yr schools, it is readily available.

Note, the numbers are more than people expect and it will probably increase over the next couple of years, it will be some simple economics for many parents and also colleges in some cases mimicking a one (two) and done approach.

Simple non gnats numbers:

~No. of  Juco transfers

ACC (53)

- Florida  State (8)

- Virginia Tech (8)

- Pittsburgh (11)

SEC (89)

- Alabama (10)

-South Carolina (10)

-Texas A&M (8)

Big12 (68)

- TCU (13)

- OSU (10)

- K state (10)

- Texas (6)

AAC (86)

- Houston (14)

- Tulane (13)

- UCF (13)

-Memphis (12)

BigWest (79)

-Cal State Northridge (15)

- Long Beach state (11)

-UC Irvine(10)

Ohio Valley Conference (122)

My guess is that the impact will be felt worse by 2020 HS kids, followed by JUCO Sophomores, followed by kids on roster who were scheduled to take over a spot but the starter is now returning to school.  It will also depend on skill level and the skill level at the college.  Top 100 HS players are going to be fine.  Top 500 players at mid majors will probably be fine.  There will be a lot of other HS kids squeezed out.  JUCO Sophomores are in a similar boat.  I know one who has already been told to look elsewhere.   The problem is, where do you go?  Everyone is having the same numbers crunch.   D2 is a real possibility.  I know of a few SEC kids on roster that will probably be squeezed out.  Top ranked HS kids coming in behind them and the returning starters that were expected to leave are now staying.  In that scenario, it won't be the HS kids that are told to go elsewhere.  My kid is going JUCO.  He isn't immune.  There will be top talent transferring into JUCO in the Spring (maybe Fall too), like we have never seen before.    

What do you do if you are a HS kid?  It would be ideal if you could redshirt at a 4 year and let some of the bottleneck ease.  A year of postgrad is an option.  Otherwise, stay the course and compete.  If you are told there isn't a spot, deal with it at that point.  No one knows what will happen.  There could be some additional roster relief that makes everything easier or this could end up a total mess.      

~Number of Juco players.

Sun Belt (178)

UL Monroe - (28)

South Alabama (20)

Little Rock (19)

UT-Arlington (18)

UL-Lafayette (18)

Summit (62)

Nebraska-Omaha (19)

Oral Roberts (15)

Western Athletic Conference (107)

Thanks for the information. Look forward to the upcoming update to a font size adults can read. 

CollegebaseballInsights posted:

~Number of Juco players.

 

Sun Belt (178) ... 

 

Thank you for researching and posting. 

These are the numbers, arguing wether this is in a "few" or "many" is not as important as understanding the impact of the raw numbers.  I hope the NCAA does and think that they will.  I hope they deal with baseball a little differently and expand the roster size a bit.  What would be wrong with changing the roster size to 42 and allowing 12.5 scholy's to be split among all players at a minimum of .25 per player, some could get a little more.  

Then a redshirt baseball player would be on par with a redshirt football player.  He would be a  guy the coaches just feels needs a little more time to develop...like Russel Wilson.  Right now, a redshirt baseball player means a guy that didn't make the team in the Spring, isn't allowed to practice with his teammates, and has to struggle to make the team again next year.   

This thread title!? Players, it's baseball (. . . and life). Have fun and compete. Don't put too much stock in a rank beyond the first 100 or so - you know what you can do and your numbers and goal numbers. Keep working, keep swinging. It may turn into the wild west, but for now, take a deep breath, make a plan, and control what you can control. You've got this. Stay healthy all!   

CollegebaseballInsights posted:

Simple non gnats numbers:

~No. of  Juco transfers

ACC (53)

- Florida  State (8)

- Virginia Tech (8)

- Pittsburgh (11)

SEC (89)

- Alabama (10)

-South Carolina (10)

-Texas A&M (8)

Big12 (68)

- TCU (13)

- OSU (10)

- K state (10)

- Texas (6)

AAC (86)

- Houston (14)

- Tulane (13)

- UCF (13)

-Memphis (12)

BigWest (79)

-Cal State Northridge (15)

- Long Beach state (11)

-UC Irvine(10)

Ohio Valley Conference (122)

Thank you!  That’s a significant number of kids, as I knew it would be. Never ceases to amaze me how many people look down their noses at Junior College in general and JuCo baseball specifically. Now would be the time for many to broaden their perspective. JuCo will be a more realistic option for even the really good HS seniors over the next few years. Kind of a throwback to how it was decades ago. 

CollegebaseballInsights posted:

~Number of Juco players.

 

Sun Belt (178)

 

UL Monroe - (28)

South Alabama (20)

Little Rock (19)

UT-Arlington (18)

UL-Lafayette (18)

 

Summit (62)

Nebraska-Omaha (19)

Oral Roberts (15)

 

Western Athletic Conference (107)

 

 

  Cant see. Conference USA has a lot of JUCO players.

TPM posted:

CollegebaseballInsights posted:

~Number of Juco players.

 

Sun Belt (178)

 

UL Monroe - (28)

South Alabama (20)

Little Rock (19)

UT-Arlington (18)

UL-Lafayette (18)

 

Summit (62)

Nebraska-Omaha (19)

Oral Roberts (15)

 

Western Athletic Conference (107)

 

 

  Cant see. Conference USA has a lot of JUCO players.

Southland does too 

Pedaldad posted:

CollegebaseballInsights posted:

~Number of Juco players.

 

Sun Belt (178) ... 

 

Thank you for researching and posting. 

These are the numbers, arguing wether this is in a "few" or "many" is not as important as understanding the impact of the raw numbers.  I hope the NCAA does and think that they will.  I hope they deal with baseball a little differently and expand the roster size a bit.  What would be wrong with changing the roster size to 42 and allowing 12.5 scholy's to be split among all players at a minimum of .25 per player, some could get a little more.  

Then a redshirt baseball player would be on par with a redshirt football player.  He would be a  guy the coaches just feels needs a little more time to develop...like Russel Wilson.  Right now, a redshirt baseball player means a guy that didn't make the team in the Spring, isn't allowed to practice with his teammates, and has to struggle to make the team again next year.   

I think that is why many programs, especially mid D1, prefer JUCO transfer over a true freshman.   A few reasons, one that you gave,  they don't want to give out an extra year unless there is an injury, and they really need experienced guys out of the gate.

HomeField2020 posted:

This thread title!? Players, it's baseball (. . . and life). Have fun and compete. Don't put too much stock in a rank beyond the first 100 or so - you know what you can do and your numbers and goal numbers. Keep working, keep swinging. It may turn into the wild west, but for now, take a deep breath, make a plan, and control what you can control. You've got this. Stay healthy all!   

Reminds me of a few weeks back.  When people said, "This corona virus!?  It's the flu.. go about your normal life, business as usual."

That was when people were running around saying 2 million were gonna die right?

Pedaldad posted:

I hope they deal with baseball a little differently and expand the roster size a bit.  What would be wrong with changing the roster size to 42 and allowing 12.5 scholy's to be split among all players at a minimum of .25 per player, some could get a little more.  

Then a redshirt baseball player would be on par with a redshirt football player.  He would be a  guy the coaches just feels needs a little more time to develop...like Russel Wilson.  Right now, a redshirt baseball player means a guy that didn't make the team in the Spring, isn't allowed to practice with his teammates, and has to struggle to make the team again next year.   

Expanding rosters doesn't accomplish anything. 35 is more than enough for a sport that puts 9 on the field at any given time. The way it is currently structured 8 guys don't even travel with their team to away games. 

As for scholarships, most schools don't even supply 11.7. Adding more is only good for the P5 and gifted mid majors who can add on. 

Your information about redshirts is not accurate. 

Pedaldad posted:

HomeField2020 posted:

This thread title!? Players, it's baseball (. . . and life). Have fun and compete. Don't put too much stock in a rank beyond the first 100 or so - you know what you can do and your numbers and goal numbers. Keep working, keep swinging. It may turn into the wild west, but for now, take a deep breath, make a plan, and control what you can control. You've got this. Stay healthy all!   

 

Reminds me of a few weeks back.  When people said, "This corona virus!?  It's the flu.. go about your normal life, business as usual."

Seriously? My son is a 2020 with a plan A.  Of course, just like before, we'll be there to support a plan B, if necessary. What would you suggest?  That my son, one of the "Players" mentioned in the title, panic and prepare for a slaughter? We'll just encourage him to prepare. 

PABaseball posted:

Pedaldad posted:

I hope they deal with baseball a little differently and expand the roster size a bit.  What would be wrong with changing the roster size to 42 and allowing 12.5 scholy's to be split among all players at a minimum of .25 per player, some could get a little more.  

Then a redshirt baseball player would be on par with a redshirt football player.  He would be a  guy the coaches just feels needs a little more time to develop...like Russel Wilson.  Right now, a redshirt baseball player means a guy that didn't make the team in the Spring, isn't allowed to practice with his teammates, and has to struggle to make the team again next year.   

Expanding rosters doesn't accomplish anything. 35 is more than enough for a sport that puts 9 on the field at any given time. The way it is currently structured 8 guys don't even travel with their team to away games. 

As for scholarships, most schools don't even supply 11.7. Adding more is only good for the P5 and gifted mid majors who can add on. 

Your information about redshirts is not accurate. 

It helps alleviate the roster crunch and allows younger players who will be otherwise cut, to remain with the team, practice with the team, improve for future seasons.

If you are going to say my information is inaccurate, please enlighten me about the inaccuracies in redshirting.  35 are allowed on the roster.  And yes, a player (one of the 35) that never touches the field during a game can be redshirted.  But, most teams list 37-40 on their rosters.  That means on most teams 2-5 listed are being "redshirted".  "Redshirted" by this fashion in baseball equals not on the team, not able to practice with the team, not even able to sit with them during the game.

I frequently have people that don't like what I write tell me that I am wrong.  Like it or not, I don't discuss "my feelings".  I know the rules.

HomeField2020 posted:

Pedaldad posted:

HomeField2020 posted:

This thread title!? Players, it's baseball (. . . and life). Have fun and compete. Don't put too much stock in a rank beyond the first 100 or so - you know what you can do and your numbers and goal numbers. Keep working, keep swinging. It may turn into the wild west, but for now, take a deep breath, make a plan, and control what you can control. You've got this. Stay healthy all!   

 

Reminds me of a few weeks back.  When people said, "This corona virus!?  It's the flu.. go about your normal life, business as usual."

Seriously? My son is a 2020 with a plan A.  Of course, just like before, we'll be there to support a plan B, if necessary. What would you suggest?  That my son, one of the "Players" mentioned in the title, panic and prepare for a slaughter? We'll just encourage him to prepare. 

 

In wish your son and all others the absolute best.

Panic, no I wouldn't and didn't suggest it to anyone.  Prepare - absolutely.

HomeField2020 posted:

Pedaldad posted:

HomeField2020 posted:

This thread title!? Players, it's baseball (. . . and life). Have fun and compete. Don't put too much stock in a rank beyond the first 100 or so - you know what you can do and your numbers and goal numbers. Keep working, keep swinging. It may turn into the wild west, but for now, take a deep breath, make a plan, and control what you can control. You've got this. Stay healthy all!   

 

Reminds me of a few weeks back.  When people said, "This corona virus!?  It's the flu.. go about your normal life, business as usual."

Seriously? My son is a 2020 with a plan A.  Of course, just like before, we'll be there to support a plan B, if necessary. What would you suggest?  That my son, one of the "Players" mentioned in the title, panic and prepare for a slaughter? We'll just encourage him to prepare. 

Just understand that you are disagreeing with people on this board who have played college baseball, coached college baseball, been involved in college recruiting, have sons that are currently playing college baseball, and regularly talk to college coaches. I get that you don’t like what we are saying. I don’t like it either. But you might want to offer a little more information to your 2020 than “ you got this.” 

adbono posted:

HomeField2020 posted:

Pedaldad posted:

HomeField2020 posted:

This thread title!? Players, it's baseball (. . . and life). Have fun and compete. Don't put too much stock in a rank beyond the first 100 or so - you know what you can do and your numbers and goal numbers. Keep working, keep swinging. It may turn into the wild west, but for now, take a deep breath, make a plan, and control what you can control. You've got this. Stay healthy all!   

 

Reminds me of a few weeks back.  When people said, "This corona virus!?  It's the flu.. go about your normal life, business as usual."

Seriously? My son is a 2020 with a plan A.  Of course, just like before, we'll be there to support a plan B, if necessary. What would you suggest?  That my son, one of the "Players" mentioned in the title, panic and prepare for a slaughter? We'll just encourage him to prepare. 

Just understand that you are disagreeing with people on this board who have played college baseball, coached college baseball, been involved in college recruiting, have sons that are currently playing college baseball, and regularly talk to college coaches. I get that you don’t like what we are saying. I don’t like it either. But you might want to offer a little more information to your 2020 than “ you got this.” 

Not disagreeing.  I have much respect for you and all on this board.  I may not have your baseball background, but I've said many times, watching my son play has been the best surprise of my life. That said, there are worse things  than having to come up with a plan B for baseball. So, we'll cross that bridge if and when we come to it.  That's it for me on this one. I'll let the experts hash it out.