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Need assessment of recruiting video

W WestRanchDad100+ posts
Originally Posted by cabbagedad:

WRD, this might help illustrate one aspect of what I am trying to describe...

 

http://baseballthinktank.com/hip-shoulder-separation/

 

 

Thank you.  I started implementing this concept. 

 

I'm also implementing the inverted W to ensure that the forearm flicks into at least a vertical position when the shoulders are fully loaded to ensure that all of the subsequent forward rotational energy will translate directly into the winding back of that arm.  During slo-mo, I could tell that the forearm was often tilted forward (and the palm downward) when he started his forward shoulder rotation, thus wasting the potential of that rotation to bend that forearm back.

 

Hopefully the combination of all of this results in some gains in velocity.

 

PS Pitching student500+ posts
Originally Posted by WestRanchDad:

 

 

Well, I am willing to spend the money right now if I can get a really, really solid recommendation from someone.

Assuming your son goes to West Ranch HS based on your name, there is a facility that is supposed to be very good in Santa Clarita for developing pitchers. I believe they focus on developing throwing for all positions though. Check out Throw Zone Academy. It's run by Jim Wagner i believe. They're having a camp coming in October that the TBR is putting on there. 

W WestRanchDad100+ posts

OK, I hope that this is better:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X855WQRlUAs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkFKwx2zjNE

 

I think that I see a sequential initiation of the rotation from the ground up.  I also tried to get his shoulders almost fully-loaded horizontally before he initiates the forearm cocking motion so as to fully translate the shoulder rotation into the winding up of the arm inside the shoulder socket.  

 

I believe that the hand speed looks much improved.  I can hear the "whoosh" as he delivers, and I can hear a decent buzz as the ball travels through the air. 

 

SultanofSwatSultanofSwat10,000+ posts
Originally Posted by WestRanchDad:
Originally Posted by cabbagedad:

WRD, this might help illustrate one aspect of what I am trying to describe...

 

http://baseballthinktank.com/hip-shoulder-separation/

 

 

I'm sorry but, to me IMO, this video is nonsense.

 

I recommend that you not take my ideas, or those of anyone else, as gospel.

 

I would not rely on 'whooshing' sounds.

 

Take a radar gun, and try different techniques, and continue only the ones that result in increased velocity.

Last edited by SultanofSwat
C cabbagedadHSBaseballWeb member since 2011
Originally Posted by WestRanchDad:

OK, I hope that this is better:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X855WQRlUAs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkFKwx2zjNE

 

I think that I see a sequential initiation of the rotation from the ground up.  I also tried to get his shoulders almost fully-loaded horizontally before he initiates the forearm cocking motion so as to fully translate the shoulder rotation into the winding up of the arm inside the shoulder socket.  

 

I believe that the hand speed looks much improved.  I can hear the "whoosh" as he delivers, and I can hear a decent buzz as the ball travels through the air. 

 

Uhhh, WRD, you did a great job of conveying the concept.  And, son is picking it up well.  This really looks way better.  Not sure what Sultan thinks is nonsense about the video but if there are any doubts, take a look at the right side where the reviews are and who they are from.  Sometimes I wish Sultan would elaborate more as I believe his son is an accomplished player and I believe he is fully aware of the necessity of proper sequencing and separation. 

 

Back to the two new videos of your son... so the next thing I would encourage is to look at the first video, the last and next-to-last throws.  The last throw he makes, he carries his momentum forward toward the direction of the throw quite a bit more so than he does the previous rep (and most before it).  That additional forward momentum is a good thing (when the play allows) for extension, drive and directional accuracy.   

 

PS - after having posted this, I realized that this next thought may be a bit premature in that he should probably engrain the sequencing before thinking about following the throw as this may be a bit counter-intuitive with the new mechanics.

Last edited by cabbagedad
W WestRanchDad100+ posts

I understand what you are saying (with the PS), but regardless...so I assume that the momentum you refer to is achieved by driving hard off the back foot and also striding out longer?

 

Also, I'm not sure, but I think that my kid's arm slot is higher than that of other outfielders that I see.  Do you think that the arm slot matters for the outfield positions?  Do you think that coaches have a preference for a specific arm slot with the infield positions, or is it all just about the actual speed and whether your ball breaks in any direction?

 

What's your opinion on the movement in the back leg and foot during the throw?  My kid always tends to pick up the back foot and retract it towards the front; whereas I suspect that a lot of pitchers drag their back foot along the ground during the delivery.  I'm confused over whether this (my kid's habit) affords greater hip rotation, whether it destabilizes the delivery to some degree, or a little bit of both?  Does it even matter if you are not a pitcher? 

Last edited by WestRanchDad
C cabbagedadHSBaseballWeb member since 2011

I'll address the easy part first.  A throw that is more from over the top as opposed to 3/4 or sidearm will produce something closer to a 12-6 rotation and therefore will track straighter.  This is particularly important for OF's where throws typically travel further and any tail becomes more pronounced.  Also, the nature of the way most OF balls are fielded allows for the fielder to set up and throw with this motion.  IF's often are fielding ground balls low and must make quick pivots and throws so it becomes more necessary to throw from close to where you field the ball.  So, there is more variety and necessity for throws to be made from various angles.  That said, in some instances, it is still preferable for an IF to set his feet and make a good overhand throw.

 

Regarding the questions about momentum and the back leg coming around...

I went back and looked at your original video and both recent clips.  The second recent clip is sideways so I sort of glazed over on it the first time through.  When your son is fielding grounders in the first video and his throws in the second recent clip, he actually uses his momentum toward the throw quite well.  The only time he doesn't is during the first few throws of the first recent clip (he sort of stops momentum abruptly or falls off to the side).  So, I think once he gets comfortable with the sequence adjustments, he'll be fine in that regard.  The back foot coming around is usually a good thing.  The difference between before and after mechanical adjustments is this - before, his back leg would come around along with and about the same time as his shoulders and core were rotating.  Now, with better sequencing, his core rotates, he extends and throws, and then his back leg follows.  Hope that makes sense.

 

When we see IF's make inaccurate throws, it is usually because they are falling off to the side instead of getting their momentum going to the target.  This applies largely to OF's as well, really.

W WestRanchDad100+ posts
Buckeye 2015 posted:
Originally Posted by WestRanchDad:
Originally Posted by Nuke83:
Originally Posted by Ripken Fan:
Originally Posted by WestRanchDad:
 

 

https://youtu.be/XA4hP28QOWk

WRD: I would be curious as to what he ran the 60 in on the video (likely unofficial, but you could get a ballpark figure). Form is good as he did not slow down as many seem to do when they hit 50 or 55. Seeing that he is a good runner (and I certainly appreciate that tool) look at where he is standing at the starting line and and how far he is away from the "hash marks" at the finish line. Like the 55 yard dash (son used to say a bad start and he's cooked) so much cause a time to be slower than you would expect. A straight line path would lower his time. Good luck!

You can hear the timer yell 7.33 after the run.  If that's the case, not an exceptional OF time official or unofficial.  

I know that you have to be under 7.  The reason that I'm not too worried is that this was the very end of a heavy workout, the kid wasn't wearing spikes, and he wasn't told yet about striding out better.  Also, if you look at what happens, the coach is standing at one end and yells "go," the sound travels to the other end, then he starts a half-a-second later.  At the showcases, they have sensors at the starting line to start the clock.

 

Most baseball players wobble like crazy when they run.  You can tell there's a lot of fast-twitch in this clip, and his hands and legs are moving straight ahead.

Ok...please don't take offense to anything I say...but after this post going this long, I'll throw out a couple things.

1. An "elite" OF needs to be well below 7 seconds.  In the video, he almost leaves simultaneously with the "go"...no where near .5 second

 

2.  Not sure where the "most baseball players wobble like crazy" comes from...and even if they do, a coach could care less if he does cartwheels down the line if he runs a 6.6

 

3. You seem to be really high on your son (and most dads are)...I guess at this point I would ask who is recruiting him...and what have you heard?  Elite '17s are being recruited heavily now...with an awful lot already committed.

 

Again, not trying to cause issues...just kinda thinking maybe some perspective on what you are seeing and what others may be seeing may go a long way in helping you find a place for your son to play at the next level.

 

Good luck!!!

OK, we just attended a PG event that we had paid for last year but cancelled due to SAT testing review/schedule.  This was the PG Academic West event, it was laser-timed, and the kid posted a 6.90 60 and 1.55 split.

He "road the pine" in varsity all of last year, but at least there's this.  

Last edited by WestRanchDad
W WestRanchDad100+ posts
TPM posted:

Not quite sure of your situation but if he hasnt played much videos wont help.

Juco probably would be more suitable to pursue at this time.

We've only ever gone to two showcases.  I'm just wondering if it's worth it signing up for any more since we believe that the swing just took a huge jump and probably will show really well.

W WestRanchDad100+ posts
TPM posted:

It's not what I think of the swing but what coaches think.

What has he done besides make videos. Did he play this summer.

What have you all done for his exposure?

Yes, he played on the HS travel team during the summer.  His defense is always fantastic.  His offense has been off-and-on because he keeps getting rotated in and out.

We recently went to a PG event, and he recorded a 6.9 60 and 155 split.  They also wrote him up for having a consistent line drive swing; however, I think that we just made a huge breakthrough with the swing.

He sat last spring season on a varsity team that reached the CIF (CA state) semifinals; it had a lot of senior talent.  He earned the "player of the game" honors in the very first game and then got benched.  That's all she wrote for the spring season; it was pretty disheartening.

That's our current situation.

Last edited by WestRanchDad
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003

But what have you all done to get attention, 2 showcases in 4 years of HS?   Play outside of the state?  What has your son Done?  How are his grades, his test scores. Did you just sit back and wait for someone to call?  

Has any program made any contact?  

I am not sure at this point if a showcase would help. My advice would be to contact the nearest JUCO program.

W WestRanchDad100+ posts
TPM posted:

But what have you all done to get attention, 2 showcases in 4 years of HS?   Play outside of the state?  What has your son Done?  How are his grades, his test scores. Did you just sit back and wait for someone to call?  

Has any program made any contact?  

I am not sure at this point if a showcase would help. My advice would be to contact the nearest JUCO program.

His grades are probably 4.43 with a 2010 SAT (and 10 to 12 AP and college-level courses).  

Last edited by WestRanchDad
W WestRanchDad100+ posts
TPM posted:

What are you scratching and clawing for?  Regardless of baseball, his future is getting a college degree and your son should be applying to colleges at this point and time. 

Good luck.

 

Yeah, he's doing that right now.  He'll be taking the ACT next week, and he's filling out the common app and other applications.  You just can't count on GPA and test scores, however.  I've seen all kinds of kids not get accepted into good schools, and they had academic vitals better than my kid's.  I guess I'm looking for the baseball to help secure entry into a good academic school.

NYdad2017NYdad201710,000+ posts
WestRanchDad posted:

He wants schools like Brown, Penn, Michigan, USC, Stanford, Cal. Berkely, but those are probably all reach schools.

By all means send his info to those reach schools, but you need some realistic schools to target at this point. I know that the AZ Senior Fall Classic would be a good showcase for academic kids. 

My opinion... get busy with some academic D3's.

TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
WestRanchDad posted:

He wants schools like Brown, Penn, Michigan, USC, Stanford, Cal. Berkely, but those are probably all reach schools.

More than likely those schools are not going to recruit him on seeing a video. He is way behind in the process. Why is he taking tests now, shouldn't that have been done last year.

He needs to be realistic at this point, as NYdad has suggested.  And your son needs to take ownership. Are you sure this is what he really wants, or is it what you want?

GovGovMember since 2015

Coaches aren't going to come find the player unless he's a behemoth on the mound or at the plate.  Find out which coaches will be going to which showcases where through the first week of November.  AZ Fall Classic was mentioned, then HF the first week of November....

He's out of position timing wise to go to the colleges mentioned, unless, there's fall out with a previous recruit and they like your son they noticed at AZ Fall Classic or HF.

Another option, some kids are late bloomers, even smart ones, and some are simply late to the recruiting "party".  I learned with my oldest, and I'm learning more with my 2018.  If playing baseball is paramount and AZ Classic or HF don't yield any opportunities, a post grad year or JUCO could be leveraged into a transfer to a top school if the grades and ACT are there.  

Keep in mind it's about the next 40 years vs playing ball for whomever next year.  A one year sabbatical (post grad) could be perfect for your son.  AND, when you reach 40, plenty of people are 35 or 45 that work with you, what's one year.  Sitting out a year could benefit him in plenty of ways: a great positioning opportunity.

By the way, nice athletic swing... first few swings he's finishing off balance for a reason - normally not enough lower half working to put him in a strong balanced position to deliver the bat.  Hips need to fire prior to hands which will provide proper sequencing and balance.  Very minor tweaking.  BUT, get video off of live BP, not machine for video and show front side and backside of swings.

 This link provides suggestions for recruiting video: 

http://www.frawleybaseball.com...Player-Skills-Videos

Good luck to your son.

Last edited by Gov
S SluggerDad10,000+ posts

You are way behind the curve exposure wise.   There is no way your guy is going to be recruited at the schools you listed above.  If he is a stellar student he should apply to those schools but he shouldn't expect to play baseball at them.

 If he really wants to play, he should apply to a bunch of high academic D3's and start getting in touch with coaches at them NOW.   If he shows some skill, they won't turn him away.  Some might encourage him more than others.  

 

Although you you hear a lot about ED and D3 athletics that really isn't necessary.  I'll give you an example. A friend and teammate of my son's took a pretty laid back approach to being seen senior year.  Didn't really know what school kind of school he wanted to attend or even if he was determined to keep playing baseball. Didn't apply ED anywhere despite being a 4.5 student.  Applied to big state schools, elite D1's, and a few high academic D3.  Ended up being wait-listed at a High Academic.  He was headed to a UC  where he might have tried to walk on but he also was thinking club ball might be cool. But Li and behold he got admitted off the wait list to an awesome high academic d3. Immediately contacted the coach who promised him nothing but encouraged him to come. As a two way player, he won a roster spot in the fall and pitched significant innings as a frosh, though not too many AB's. Expects to player a bigger role this year.

  So it can happen; it's a riskier path, to be sure. But what fun would a life devoid of risk be?

W WestRanchDad100+ posts
Gov posted:

Coaches aren't going to come find the player unless he's a behemoth on the mound or at the plate.  Find out which coaches will be going to which showcases where through the first week of November.  AZ Fall Classic was mentioned, then HF the first week of November....

He's out of position timing wise to go to the colleges mentioned, unless, there's fall out with a previous recruit and they like your son they noticed at AZ Fall Classic or HF.

Another option, some kids are late bloomers, even smart ones, and some are simply late to the recruiting "party".  I learned with my oldest, and I'm learning more with my 2018.  If playing baseball is paramount and AZ Classic or HF don't yield any opportunities, a post grad year or JUCO could be leveraged into a transfer to a top school if the grades and ACT are there.  

Keep in mind it's about the next 40 years vs playing ball for whomever next year.  A one year sabbatical (post grad) could be perfect for your son.  AND, when you reach 40, plenty of people are 35 or 45 that work with you, what's one year.  Sitting out a year could benefit him in plenty of ways: a great positioning opportunity.

By the way, nice athletic swing... first few swings he's finishing off balance for a reason - normally not enough lower half working to put him in a strong balanced position to deliver the bat.  Hips need to fire prior to hands which will provide proper sequencing and balance.  Very minor tweaking.  BUT, get video off of live BP, not machine for video and show front side and backside of swings.

 This link provides suggestions for recruiting video: 

http://www.frawleybaseball.com...Player-Skills-Videos

Good luck to your son.

Thanks for all of the feedback.  What is HF?

W WestRanchDad100+ posts
SluggerDad posted:

You are way behind the curve exposure wise.   There is no way your guy is going to be recruited at the schools you listed above.  If he is a stellar student he should apply to those schools but he shouldn't expect to play baseball at them.

 If he really wants to play, he should apply to a bunch of high academic D3's and start getting in touch with coaches at them NOW.   If he shows some skill, they won't turn him away.  Some might encourage him more than others.  

 

Although you you hear a lot about ED and D3 athletics that really isn't necessary.  I'll give you an example. A friend and teammate of my son's took a pretty laid back approach to being seen senior year.  Didn't really know what school kind of school he wanted to attend or even if he was determined to keep playing baseball. Didn't apply ED anywhere despite being a 4.5 student.  Applied to big state schools, elite D1's, and a few high academic D3.  Ended up being wait-listed at a High Academic.  He was headed to a UC  where he might have tried to walk on but he also was thinking club ball might be cool. But Li and behold he got admitted off the wait list to an awesome high academic d3. Immediately contacted the coach who promised him nothing but encouraged him to come. As a two way player, he won a roster spot in the fall and pitched significant innings as a frosh, though not too many AB's. Expects to player a bigger role this year.

  So it can happen; it's a riskier path, to be sure. But what fun would a life devoid of risk be?

Thanks for sharing your experience and helping "a brother" out.  

W WestRanchDad100+ posts
JCG posted:
WestRanchDad posted:

He wants schools like Brown, Penn, Michigan, USC, Stanford, Cal. Berkely, but those are probably all reach schools.

They are not just reach schools. For baseball they are all likely done with recruiting 2017's. Go to AZ Fall Classic.

What if we email them for assistance with acceptance and try to walk on?  Would they help you with that?

JCGJCGStill working on a clever handle

HF is Head First Honor Roll.   They do 2 day showcases that are swarming with academic D3 and Ivy coaches.  IMO a very good player in the current recruiting class is almost guaranteed to generate interest there.  But you've pretty much missed the boat there as the last one is 11/5 in FL.  The AZ Fall Classic and Academic Game are a better option at this point.

JCGJCGStill working on a clever handle
WestRanchDad posted:
JCG posted:
WestRanchDad posted:

He wants schools like Brown, Penn, Michigan, USC, Stanford, Cal. Berkely, but those are probably all reach schools.

They are not just reach schools. For baseball they are all likely done with recruiting 2017's. Go to AZ Fall Classic.

What if we email them for assistance with acceptance and try to walk on?  Would they help you with that?

I have not heard of that strategy working for anybody.  And certainly not at any of those schools, or really at D1 at all.  If he gets in on his own, he can try to walk on, but it's a very long shot.  At a D3 school, if it did I'd guess it would have to be a player who has been seen by that coach -- live, not on video hitting in a cage.  Coaches have some pull, but at high academic schools  I believe it applies only to a very small list of recruits.  Under 10 per year.  So they will use those very sparingly.  Now, like SD says, your son sounds like he can get into many, many good schools by himself, so applying to a bunch of schools he'd really like to both attend and play for, and then contacting the coaches after he gets in to see who is most interested, might be a very good way to go.

W WestRanchDad100+ posts
JCG posted:

HF is Head First Honor Roll.   They do 2 day showcases that are swarming with academic D3 and Ivy coaches.  IMO a very good player in the current recruiting class is almost guaranteed to generate interest there.  But you've pretty much missed the boat there as the last one is 11/5 in FL.  The AZ Fall Classic and Academic Game are a better option at this point.

I think that the AZ Fall Classic for Seniors only accepts registration by teams right?

http://azfallclassic.com/az-senior-fall-classic/

JCGJCGStill working on a clever handle

It was mentioned here the other day that you can go to the Academic Game tryouts without a team, and that's a very heavily attended event.  I'd consider going just for that.  As for playing in the main tournament, get on the horn!    Lots of teams will take on a few ringers. Trosky takes multiple teams.  Google will tell you who else to contact. 

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