Need assessment of recruiting video

IMO, too long.  Way to many reps of each action, cut it down to 3-5 reps.  Lose the slow motion as well.  Again, just my .02.  Good luck

I'd consider taking out slo-mo and adding a few game clips.

WRD: Welcome to the site. Here are my comments. First off, as you sensed, video is long and son should wear baseball pants. You are creating a video (and an impression) for baseball recruiters -  look like a ball player. I probably would have him don a cap in BP too. Shorter video to closer to 2 minutes. For infield..ball right at him, ball to left, ball to backhand right, slow roller (maybe two for each at most). You can have swings at different angles..usually camera at right for righty, then straight on. Looking at the video I conclude that son is a MI first and then OF secondary. Video certainly plays more to that. If you are highlighting OF as well need throws to 3rd base from RF in addition to Home. Additionally, not all balls are hit in air to OF. Batter should hit line/drives/grounders through 1st/2B hole so that OF can demonstrate approach towards circling ball and crow hop. Athleticism showed more as MI. If he has a good 60 time you may note that. I have seen some homemade videos that starts with a slide that lists identifiers such as player name, positions, graduation year, e-mail address,high school, height, weight, positions,GPA, 60 time, and travel team. Also perhaps one of his teammates can play 1B to catch the balls he throws from SS, rather than hear the clanging of the fence. Good luck!

I would keep the length to 2 minutes or less, max 3 minutes.  No slow Mo, the coaches can see mechanics without slowing it down.  I would definitely have him in baseball pants and some type of jersey or dri-fit.  Coaches are very old school and like it when a kid "looks the part" in baseball attire.

First...as others have said...baseball pants and cleats are a must.  I would take out the video of him hitting in the cage and replace it with him hitting on the field.....with video from the side instead of in back.  Take away all the shots of him fielding in front of the backstop....those showed nothing that would help a coach judge his abilities.    I would reshoot the IF shots....with the camera being much, much closer to him.  Also, same thing with OF....zoom in...and also give him some ground balls that he can charge hard and come up throwing.   The last thing...on the IF throws he has to throw like it's a "game situation"...meaning throw hard and follow thru as you would in a game.  Good luck....my son's video got him quite a few follow ups. 

That's a lot of good advise.  Thanks, guys.

Yeah, my biggest consideration was to show the foot speed and range, so that's why I was trying to shoot with a wide angle, but I will redo it.

 

What I don't like about the videos from the established outfits is that they seem to only emphasize arm, versus I think that range, footwork, and glove are what I need to highlight with my kid. 

 

It seems like you need a whole crew of people to get maximum quality--one to shoot, one to take the throw, and one to hit. 

 

 

The arm is the most important....you can have all the range, glove and footwork that you want...but if you can't throw you'll never get a college runner out. 

That goes both ways, right?  You can have the best arm, but if you can't get to balls fast enough, then you might as well pitch. 

Not in scouts eyes....at least from what we saw.  If you don't have a cannon in HS, you're not playing INF in college 

Do you think that they look at second base in the same way?  You've got to be agile and basically get it off quickly.

A number of colleges don't recruit "second base." They will recruit numerous SS and place them at short, 2nd, 3rd, OF or pitcher.

What do you think separates this player from the hundreds of videos each college recruiter sees...?

It doesn't separate him at all...

We were told by way too many numerous coaches to list that they like to see as much in-game footage for recruitable position players as they can... 

I would get on it ASAP.

My son's team has 9 "signed" freshmen this spring.  6 SS's (all 6 were no worse than 3rd team All-State their senior year of HS) 2 OF and a Catcher.  They'll find a 2B and 3B from those guys.  Heck, at this point one of them looks like he'll be one of their top OF's

I had a couple of coaches tell me this summer they recruit pitchers, CF, SS and C.  Thats it.  The best hitting of the catchers that are not the starter can move to 1st.  The best CF will play CF and the OF spots will be filled with other CF candidates.  The same with 3rd base and 2nd base with the SS prospects.  

OK, thanks for all of the input.  I'll get on the creation of another video.

 

Having seen tons of baseball here in So. Cal., I believe that my kid's fielding skills are elite for both middle infield and outfield (although he only plays OF in HS).  He's an extremely athletic and fast kid.  He was team MVP for his freshman and sophomore seasons, and he's always in the top 3 in batting.

 

My suspicion though is that people might view his arm as average, and he's not a six footer.  That's why I mentioned second base.  The GPA is 4.35, so I'm hoping that helps too.  We are kind of hoping to get into an academic school that also has baseball, regardless of the division.

I guess I should include this clip in the video. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K03AitqSVY

We were told the exact same thing by a mid-level D1 coach. Recruit up the middle and fill in the rest of the field with those players.

Welcome to the site, WRD.  Some direct unbiased critique...

I do like his athleticism, quick feet and decent glove action as IF.  The catch in this second clip is a nice catch and does show athleticism but it also shows a bit of a slow jump and a bad route.

 

I agree with others about video - not bad but too long, too many reps.  You said he is fast.  List his 60 time.  Good speed and switch hitter will be advantageous, although it looks like he is still a bit behind with his LH swing?  And get some live shots against good competition.  It looks like he played JV the last few years which is fine.  Does he play any decent travel ball?  Is he playing in the SoCal fall scout league?  These can make for some great live clip opportunities as well as help with exposure.  Will he be attending any of the academic showcases?  Does he have a targeted school list? 

 

Lastly, I do see that the arm looks behind the rest of his development.  Looks like he uses a restricted short circle path with all his throws, not just the ones that call for short circle.  Was there an injury at one time?  Has he had anyone take a close look at his mechanics?

 

There's still time for all of this since he is a rising junior, particularly if he is open to considering some of the academic D3's and NAIA's.   

That kid has some talent.  My biggest problem with viewing the video is it doesn't show me the things I want to see.  I would want to see him run.  I want to see the carry on his throws.  I want to see him hit against a pitcher.

 

What I do see creates interest, but it is a bit too much of the same thing.  I can see fairly quickly that he has nice hands and quick feet.  Instead of seeing that over and over, I'd rather see the other stuff.

 

Also, I would get rid of the sound of his feet.  Runners always appear to be faster when you can't hear their footsteps. The quickest guys are often the quietest runners.  I think the sound somewhat detracts from what appears to be one of his strengths.  Everything looks good, but the sound of each footstep adds some choppiness to what visually looks smooth. Maybe it's just me, but after watching with the sound turned up, then watch it with the sound turned off.  Maybe it's just because when I'm watching infielders and outfielders I'm not used to hearing their footsteps.

Interesting.  I will take out sound in the future videos.

 

This is a clip of him running for a track coach (whom he just started seeing) at the very end of a heavy work out (with no cleats).  Her stop watch is not accurate at all; we are going to a Perfect Game showcase soon to get an official time.  He has to work on lengthening his stride.

 

I'm leaning towards doing a Perfect Game video at this point.

 

https://youtu.be/XA4hP28QOWk

I liked that video.  Shows that he can run, outstanding full speed form. Could improve stride length and start to cut some time.  Once again the sound is kind of annoying, but in a different way.

Hey, don't knock her, LOL.  She is supposedly the most decorated female track athlete in the history of California.  She is married to a hall-of-fame boxer, too.  Imagine the genetics on the kids....

WRD: I would be curious as to what he ran the 60 in on the video (likely unofficial, but you could get a ballpark figure). Form is good as he did not slow down as many seem to do when they hit 50 or 55. Seeing that he is a good runner (and I certainly appreciate that tool) look at where he is standing at the starting line and and how far he is away from the "hash marks" at the finish line. Like the 55 yard dash (son used to say a bad start and he's cooked) so much cause a time to be slower than you would expect. A straight line path would lower his time. Good luck!

You can hear the timer yell 7.33 after the run.  If that's the case, not an exceptional OF time official or unofficial.  

I know that you have to be under 7.  The reason that I'm not too worried is that this was the very end of a heavy workout, the kid wasn't wearing spikes, and he wasn't told yet about striding out better.  Also, if you look at what happens, the coach is standing at one end and yells "go," the sound travels to the other end, then he starts a half-a-second later.  At the showcases, they have sensors at the starting line to start the clock.

 

Most baseball players wobble like crazy when they run.  You can tell there's a lot of fast-twitch in this clip, and his hands and legs are moving straight ahead.

Ok...please don't take offense to anything I say...but after this post going this long, I'll throw out a couple things.

1. An "elite" OF needs to be well below 7 seconds.  In the video, he almost leaves simultaneously with the "go"...no where near .5 second

 

2.  Not sure where the "most baseball players wobble like crazy" comes from...and even if they do, a coach could care less if he does cartwheels down the line if he runs a 6.6

 

3. You seem to be really high on your son (and most dads are)...I guess at this point I would ask who is recruiting him...and what have you heard?  Elite '17s are being recruited heavily now...with an awful lot already committed.

 

Again, not trying to cause issues...just kinda thinking maybe some perspective on what you are seeing and what others may be seeing may go a long way in helping you find a place for your son to play at the next level.

 

Good luck!!!

I guess I'm not sure what you want me to say.  Should we quit? 

 

Like I said, we are looking for a good academic school that happens to have baseball.  I never said "MLB" or D1 elite.  I'm mainly soliciting input on marketing options and mostly thanking people for input.

 

BTW, my kid is 16.  Much slower kids from our team have timed a 7.3 at a showcase. 

Not at all....that wasn't my point at all. Just trying to help based on what my son ran across while being recruited...he's at a mid-major D1.   Also, by '17s I meant 2017's which you said your son is...not 17 years old.  This winter is important....in addition to getting the video out soon, look for some good showcases...preferably with multiple schools attending.  Also, if you're not already on a travel team for next summer....find as good of a team as you can right away.  Next summer is a very important time...exposure to coaches over the summer will do more than any video. 

Thank you.  We are just getting into all of this showcase and recruiting stuff, and I'm really ignorant about a lot of these things.  I am starting to get the feeling that we are really behind schedule. 

 

We are signing up for these two events coming up this fall:

http://www.top96.com/_event_display.php?de=4979

http://perfectgame.org/events/Default.aspx?event=3123

 

I've asked our HS coach about playing scout ball in the past, and he has indicated that playing with the school team is all that we need.  Because we are in a baseball hotbed that enjoys the So. Cal. weather, our coach fields a team year-round.  We regularly play in tournaments and friendlies against the best teams in California and Las Vegas.  This will be my kid's first season in varsity (could have been on varsity last year, but he wouldn't have started, so we opted to get reps in JV).

 

Like I said, we are not thinking D1 or MLB (necessarily), so it's a tough decision whether to follow the HS coach's direction or to do the scout ball thing....  He played at USC and has strong connections there, but I doubt whether they would consider my kid to be at their level.  This is why I'm intrigued by this East-West Academic Showcase thing; open yourself up to good schools nationwide.

 

Oh my god, is this stuff expensive! 

Obviously I dont know your coach so I cant speak for sure, but if he played at USC and has good connections there he probably knows coaches at lower levels also. Guys he played with maybe coaching at lower levels and assistant coaches there may have taken over other programs.

The video shows an talented athletic player.  Per an ACC head coach back in August: keep the video to 2 minutes max and he welcomes workout video.  In the course of developing a relationship with the college coaching staff you'll likely send several videos: offensively, defensively, workout, and some game video.

As an IF you should be showing views from SS, a few pic's from diff angles, then back up and show him throwing to 1B.

Hitting should be on the field;hire somebody that can throw some quality BP, then let that same person man 1B for some throws.  Show front and rear views during hitting.

No slow motion video. 

Running - timed home to first is good; video the stop watch start and stop with the final time.  Do it twice for an average.

You have a good start here; I would also recommend finding a summer club team so that he'll get more rep's and hopefully better competition.  He'll gain a better sense of where his skills stack up and what he needs to work on. 

Is your son a 2017 or 2018?  Good luck!

 

Perhaps the HS coach that played at USC is still fairly well connected but not necessarily.  The two guys I coach HS ball with played ball at UCSB and UTEP but have practically zero connections with current college coaches and RC's.  And the only connections they do have is mostly via having kids that have gone thru the recruiting process.  Things change quickly.   I surely wouldn't discount the SoCal Scout League.  This league has a great level of competition and a very good following, particularly by California colleges.  And, the coaches are largely VERY well connected with the college RC's in place TODAY.  If you show well in this league, you will get attention and there is a bit of a brotherhood/network thing among the coaches.  That said, since WRD's son hasn't played V yet, it is probably best that he wait until next fall to try to play in this league.  As a position player, he will see a steady diet of many of the best HS P's in SoCal.  I'm not suggesting you go against the HS coach's advice but I wouldn't close that door just yet.  Keep an eye on it.

 

WRD, those are two great events.  I will add, though, that the top96 East v West event appears to have only schools from the East.  Perhaps next summer/fall, you'll want to target an Academic event with schools from the West.  Depending on son's academic and career goals, along with any school preferences, it is usually more likely that he ultimately ends up at a school closer to home.

 

Regarding timing/being late, I don't think that is the case.  If he were targeting D1 it may be but most academic non-D1 schools (D3's, NAIA's) are on the later end of the recruiting schedule. 

 

You found a great place for answers to many of your questions.  In case you are not aware, you can search past posts on any topic as well.  I would still love to hear the answer to the question I posed earlier about the arm.  The more we know, the better we can help.

Thank you, and did you really father a cabbage? 

 

No, my son hasn't had an injury to his arm at all.  I didn't want to say too much about a perceived weakness, but I guess I will....

 

I've taught my son most of the skills that he has (and I never played a lick of baseball).  Most of the knowledge was picked up from watching a ton of youtube (and trying stuff out myself).  After much trial and error, I think that we have hitting down (and boy are there a ton of people out there that portray themselves as experts that don't know what the hell they are talking about).  Anyway, throwing is one thing that really mystifies me.  I think (in my biased view) that my son has strength and the ability to rotate his body fast, but the ball has always elevated coming out of his hand, and it used to dive drastically at the end.  His mechanics also used to look really off.  I knew that he had the wrong mechanics, and I also suspected that his wrist was flopping too much, and with his short fingers, he struggled to stay on top of the ball.  One guy on the internet said that he was probably leading with his elbow, and I think that was true.  Well, I found some guys on youtube that talk about how the key is to try to get your arm to rotate inside of the shoulder socket.  They said that you should hold your arm so that the forearm and upper arm form 90 degrees.  Then, you should rotate your body really fast to try to get that forearm to fall completely backwards (twisting that spring inside your shoulder socket) and then letting it uncoil forward.  (You see this illustrated most clearly with a Randy Johnson slow mo than with just about anybody else.)  These guys said that this is the proper and easiest way to throw, and this is what I tried to emphasize with my son.  He is still trying to master that technique.

 

I know, I know, part of the problem is me trying to teach him when I didn't even play myself.  When My son was small, I did send him to a pitching coach, but this coach spent 1/2 of every lesson just warming up with my kid.  I was picturing years passing by and tons of money going down the drain with very slow progress, so we stopped after awhile. 

 

About a year ago, I paid a guy who was a good prospect in his day (and whose son just started with CS Fullerton) to work with my son's throwing.  He was telling my son to pull his elbow down really hard to his belly button.  This guy was a very nice and encouraging guy, but I don't think that was the right technique given the problems that my son was having (with the ball rising out of his hand).

 

Well, I am willing to spend the money right now if I can get a really, really solid recommendation from someone.

Haha, I feel like I've bored the folks here too many times with the Cabbage story so I'll save that for a PM.

 

I agree your son does have the ability to rotate his body fast.  I think the issue is more with the kinetic chain or sequence of body movements.  It may be time to revisit with a good pitching coach that focuses on that aspect.  I know you had a bad experience with pitching coaches in the past and I know son is a position player but this is where I think he'll get the best guidance.  While there is plenty of info out there on kinetic chain, I suggest that he go to someone who can break it down with him in person and not get TOO scientific with the instruction. 

 

Consider this... there are similarities in the chain of events with the hitter's swing and the throwing motion.  If you look at your son's right-handed swing, his shoulders get good rotation, separate from his head.  In most instances, subsequently he also gets decent extension to the arc of the second half of his swing.  So, hips drive, then shoulders rotate and head stays relatively quiet and independent of the shoulder rotation.  But, when you watch most of his throws, his shoulders, neck and head (and maybe hips to an extent) tend to rotate as one - little separation.  His neck and shoulders look a bit tight.  The extension out front is limited. (A particularly good visual example is when he is taking short hops in front of the backstop - he doesn't actually make the throw, just sets his feet and starts the throwing motion.  You can really see here where his head rotates in sync with his shoulders.)  So, to start, relax that neck and let the head stay disconnected to the rotating shoulders.  Then, let the throwing arc get bigger, particularly out front.

In any case, a P coach who is into kinetic chain can likely help with his throwing motion in fairly short order.  But be patient.  Sometimes it can be difficult to break throwing motion habits.  

 

He does show a lot of good skill sets.  Through all the recruiting research, make sure you both take the time to enjoy the upcoming HS season.

Seriously, thank you very much for your time.

 

What I always mused about was whether that combination of rotational movements really has to be sequential.  I mean--if they are all rotating at the same time, doesn't that still all sum up well?  If it's sequential, and you are waiting for one rotational component to cease or wane before initiating another, doesn't that waste some of that rotational energy to where it doesn't equal the sum of the individual velocities?

It definitely has to be sequential.  You are not waiting for one component to cease, you are waiting for it to create torque to increase the force of the next component.  Look at your son's slow motion RH swing.  After his stride foot lands, his hips rotate, creating torque in his midsection.  Then, with that torque load, his core, then shoulders, then arms, then hands fire, each propelled additionally by the component before it.  If he were to try to swing with his hips, upper body, shoulders and arms all firing at the same time, you would find a drastic drop in power and bat speed.  Many of the same forces and use of torque apply to the throwing motion.

 

Some other analogies that may or may not resonate... Think of a person working a long whip or casting a flyfishing line.  You can use the exact same motion and force but if the timing and sequence are not just right, you won't come close to the desired speed and distance.

WRD, this might help illustrate one aspect of what I am trying to describe...

 

http://baseballthinktank.com/hip-shoulder-separation/

 

 

 

If I understand what you're describing reminds me of a kid I was coaching in Little League Majors.  He was a tall lanky Asian new to the sport who spoke very little English which made it somewhat difficult to communicate some of the rotational sequence I was trying to get him to do.  Initially, he essentially had no rotation, as he would swing the bat just his upper body.  Then after some effort to explain the very basic rotation sequence of a swing, I about died laughing (not outwardly) watching him rotate the lower body part first and come to a complete stop before he initiated the upper body rotation. And he would repeat this motion.  I didn't even thing that was possible and it sure looks weird.  Of course, a rotational sequence like this is disjointed and isn't any better than what he was doing before.  So, I come to realize the describing or even showing the rotational sequence that it might be better understood isn't as easy as I felt hit should be (as a golfer and instructing people presented similar difficulties).

 

So, "waiting for one rotational component to cease or wane before initiating another" quite obviously doesn't produce desired energy as it nullifies multiplication of potential.  While the parts of the sequence doesn't start or end at the same time, you want all parts in motion at the point of contact.  And preferable, to get the maximum energy applied, each part that is accelerating needs to reach its peak velocity at the same time of contact (or release for throwing) to get the best result.  This timing is MUCH harder in baseball than golf given trying to strike a moving object that comes at you a varying speeds and angles.  For the good athlete, they can feel it when that timing comes together.

 

"Yes" would be my answer to both your questions (the long and short of it whether it's hitting or throwing ). 

Thank you.  I started implementing this concept. 

 

I'm also implementing the inverted W to ensure that the forearm flicks into at least a vertical position when the shoulders are fully loaded to ensure that all of the subsequent forward rotational energy will translate directly into the winding back of that arm.  During slo-mo, I could tell that the forearm was often tilted forward (and the palm downward) when he started his forward shoulder rotation, thus wasting the potential of that rotation to bend that forearm back.

 

Hopefully the combination of all of this results in some gains in velocity.

 

Assuming your son goes to West Ranch HS based on your name, there is a facility that is supposed to be very good in Santa Clarita for developing pitchers. I believe they focus on developing throwing for all positions though. Check out Throw Zone Academy. It's run by Jim Wagner i believe. They're having a camp coming in October that the TBR is putting on there. 

OK, I hope that this is better:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X855WQRlUAs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkFKwx2zjNE

 

I think that I see a sequential initiation of the rotation from the ground up.  I also tried to get his shoulders almost fully-loaded horizontally before he initiates the forearm cocking motion so as to fully translate the shoulder rotation into the winding up of the arm inside the shoulder socket.  

 

I believe that the hand speed looks much improved.  I can hear the "whoosh" as he delivers, and I can hear a decent buzz as the ball travels through the air. 

 

I'm sorry but, to me IMO, this video is nonsense.

 

I recommend that you not take my ideas, or those of anyone else, as gospel.

 

I would not rely on 'whooshing' sounds.

 

Take a radar gun, and try different techniques, and continue only the ones that result in increased velocity.

I don't indeed take anything as gospel. I do however take as much advice as I can get ( especially from any who are willing to invest the time to help).  I'll try anything and everything LOL; it's all for the love of the game and the pursuit of excellence.

Uhhh, WRD, you did a great job of conveying the concept.  And, son is picking it up well.  This really looks way better.  Not sure what Sultan thinks is nonsense about the video but if there are any doubts, take a look at the right side where the reviews are and who they are from.  Sometimes I wish Sultan would elaborate more as I believe his son is an accomplished player and I believe he is fully aware of the necessity of proper sequencing and separation. 

 

Back to the two new videos of your son... so the next thing I would encourage is to look at the first video, the last and next-to-last throws.  The last throw he makes, he carries his momentum forward toward the direction of the throw quite a bit more so than he does the previous rep (and most before it).  That additional forward momentum is a good thing (when the play allows) for extension, drive and directional accuracy.   

 

PS - after having posted this, I realized that this next thought may be a bit premature in that he should probably engrain the sequencing before thinking about following the throw as this may be a bit counter-intuitive with the new mechanics.

I understand what you are saying (with the PS), but regardless...so I assume that the momentum you refer to is achieved by driving hard off the back foot and also striding out longer?

 

Also, I'm not sure, but I think that my kid's arm slot is higher than that of other outfielders that I see.  Do you think that the arm slot matters for the outfield positions?  Do you think that coaches have a preference for a specific arm slot with the infield positions, or is it all just about the actual speed and whether your ball breaks in any direction?

 

What's your opinion on the movement in the back leg and foot during the throw?  My kid always tends to pick up the back foot and retract it towards the front; whereas I suspect that a lot of pitchers drag their back foot along the ground during the delivery.  I'm confused over whether this (my kid's habit) affords greater hip rotation, whether it destabilizes the delivery to some degree, or a little bit of both?  Does it even matter if you are not a pitcher? 

I'll address the easy part first.  A throw that is more from over the top as opposed to 3/4 or sidearm will produce something closer to a 12-6 rotation and therefore will track straighter.  This is particularly important for OF's where throws typically travel further and any tail becomes more pronounced.  Also, the nature of the way most OF balls are fielded allows for the fielder to set up and throw with this motion.  IF's often are fielding ground balls low and must make quick pivots and throws so it becomes more necessary to throw from close to where you field the ball.  So, there is more variety and necessity for throws to be made from various angles.  That said, in some instances, it is still preferable for an IF to set his feet and make a good overhand throw.

 

Regarding the questions about momentum and the back leg coming around...

I went back and looked at your original video and both recent clips.  The second recent clip is sideways so I sort of glazed over on it the first time through.  When your son is fielding grounders in the first video and his throws in the second recent clip, he actually uses his momentum toward the throw quite well.  The only time he doesn't is during the first few throws of the first recent clip (he sort of stops momentum abruptly or falls off to the side).  So, I think once he gets comfortable with the sequence adjustments, he'll be fine in that regard.  The back foot coming around is usually a good thing.  The difference between before and after mechanical adjustments is this - before, his back leg would come around along with and about the same time as his shoulders and core were rotating.  Now, with better sequencing, his core rotates, he extends and throws, and then his back leg follows.  Hope that makes sense.

 

When we see IF's make inaccurate throws, it is usually because they are falling off to the side instead of getting their momentum going to the target.  This applies largely to OF's as well, really.