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There are just too many Graemlins too choose from that represent my feelings on this.
Hooboy......I know at least one HSBBW poster is celebrating! 
I don't know about that - but how's the traffic in your neighborhood KD? Saw you on Channel 8 last week causing trouble for those poor, overworked transportation bureaucrats.
What a rabble-rouser!
What a rabble-rouser!
quote:Originally posted by oldbat-never:
There are just too many Graemlins too choose from that represent my feelings on this.
I am truly disappointed with your response, OBN. SURELY, you can do better!
quote:Originally posted by Natural:
I don't know about that - but how's the traffic in your neighborhood KD? Saw you on Channel 8 last week causing trouble for those poor, overworked transportation bureaucrats.
What a rabble-rouser!
Hey, I wasn't causing trouble, this young, blonde haired good looking lady knocked on my door and asked me if I wanted to be on TV.....of course I said yes...
I think she's wanting to be PC....I would bet her real feelings would be along the lines of...."Don't let the door hit you on the way out...."
Never met the guy myself.......
But did talk to a current Div. 1 player this past weekend who was a former player.....
I asked about his coach at FM Marcus.
He said specifically..."I loved the guy"......
He went on to add he appreciated much that he did for him and really respected his efforts.
Anyhow, two sides to every story I guess.
But did talk to a current Div. 1 player this past weekend who was a former player.....
I asked about his coach at FM Marcus.
He said specifically..."I loved the guy"......
He went on to add he appreciated much that he did for him and really respected his efforts.
Anyhow, two sides to every story I guess.
Yup, 2 sides to every story.
OK....now that he is gone, who will be the next coach at Marcus?? 
I will give my 2 cents worth cause I know the man and I will call him my friend. Gary Poynter (my stepson) is targeted to be a high pick (Round 5-10) Projection this week in the draft. He will give Coach Chumbley all the credit in the world for developing his work ethic for his senior year and helping him through his college bumps in the road. Everytime Gary had a problem Coach was there for him. Everytime Michelle or I had a question during Gary's college career he would answer us no matter where he was. The man had his friends and his enemies, but he has two friends at Plano East that will never forget him.
Coach if your reading this thread Thank You for all your help. God has a new plan for you, Travel safe and we will see you sometime in the future.
Gary will have a professional gameball waiting for you when you two crosspaths in the near future.
Coach if your reading this thread Thank You for all your help. God has a new plan for you, Travel safe and we will see you sometime in the future.
Gary will have a professional gameball waiting for you when you two crosspaths in the near future.
quote:Originally posted by Eastside Panther:
I will give my 2 cents worth cause I know the man and I will call him my friend. Gary Poynter (my stepson) is targeted to be a high pick (Round 5-10) Projection this week in the draft. He will give Coach Chumbley all the credit in the world for developing his work ethic for his senior year and helping him through his college bumps in the road. Everytime Gary had a problem Coach was there for him. Everytime Michelle or I had a question during Gary's college career he would answer us no matter where he was. The man had his friends and his enemies, but he has two friends at Plano East that will never forget him.
Coach if your reading this thread Thank You for all your help. God has a new plan for you, Travel safe and we will see you sometime in the future.
Gary will have a professional gameball waiting for you when you two crosspaths in the near future.
Thanks for that message.
Times have changed for sure. Used to, coaches were the ones making decisions. I think the times have shown that the parents and players have more control. Which is better depends on who you ask.
More importantly, best of luck to Gary in the upcoming draft.
quote:OK....now that he is gone, who will be the next coach at Marcus??
Who really wants the job? Lets see they got rid of Harp because he could not win enough. He missed the playoffs three years in a row, now I was not a Harp fan but he did win there for a few years.
They got rid of Chumbley cause he was too hard on the kids and the parents had him ousted. Made the playoffs two of four years and lost one year in a play-in game.
Sounds like the Desoto football coaching scandal from this winter all over again. But whoever takes the job has to deal with all the whiners in the stands cause nothing has changed at all.
We have friends at Marcus and a couple that are still in the Baseball program and we know the whole story from the player exit interviews to the questionaire form that each boy filled out. How about the anti coach C parent interviews; why wasn't any of the pro coach C supporters interviewed?
It all starts when lil william doesn't get playing time and its the coachs fault. It is never the players fault for earning playing time.
Don't try to BS the other people, we know the facts and we continue to hear the stories. Matter of fact the parents were crying at game 3 this year at the Lake Cities tourney when East meet Marcus.
But its over and the Marcus whiners got what they wanted. Lets see where the program goes in the next 4 years. Cause its greatest success has been the past four years with Coach C at the helm.
It all starts when lil william doesn't get playing time and its the coachs fault. It is never the players fault for earning playing time.
Don't try to BS the other people, we know the facts and we continue to hear the stories. Matter of fact the parents were crying at game 3 this year at the Lake Cities tourney when East meet Marcus.
But its over and the Marcus whiners got what they wanted. Lets see where the program goes in the next 4 years. Cause its greatest success has been the past four years with Coach C at the helm.
quote:Originally posted by Eastside Panther:
Lets see where the program goes in the next 4 years. Cause its greatest success has been the past four years with Coach C at the helm.
Again, I know nothing about the coach...
But I know the few times I saw FM Marcus play a few years ago I saw a team with purpose.
You talk about hustle...those boys were getting after it.
Again, no clue what happens behind the scenes.
But between the lines, that was a team with discipline, organization, and purpose.
This coach has been embattled since year one. I knew of him from the San Antonio area and was surprised he was named as Marcus Skipper. I did not beleive it was a good fit and although he had some success at MHS it was predicted by many he would not last. I was not a fan and did not always care for his game demeanor. At one point this season he refused an interview after a district loss but was giddy after Marcus avenged the loss the second half of district. It took a kid with thick skin and real desire to compete or be willing to change, as was the case with the player mentioned previous to this writing, to have success within his program.
He was not one to lose gracefully and his victory celebrations were even harder to stomach. A few say good luck to him but most will say good riddance. I just say...Good ......bye coach.
He was not one to lose gracefully and his victory celebrations were even harder to stomach. A few say good luck to him but most will say good riddance. I just say...Good ......bye coach.
Maybe you Eastside Panthers should hire him. You guys have no idea what this guy was about - so my advice is to stay out of it. When a whole team petitions against you something is wrong. This guy was a true nut case - just a bad apple. My only fault with Marcus is for hiring this guy in the first place. I hope once in for all this guy is out of baseball for good!
Wow, from reading these posts it seems that the community had a big say in what happened here.
What has this profession come to when a digruntled group can fire a coach. If he has done nothing unethical and he follows the rules then he should remain the coach. I know the community had a say in the hiring process and you got what you wanted.
Now you want to change your mind, this man has a family and this is what he does to make a living and it seems as though a select few have changed his life in a negative way.
I dont know all the facts so far be it for me to comment on the situation but this is just waht I see from the outside looking in.
someone spill the beans on the rest of the story
What has this profession come to when a digruntled group can fire a coach. If he has done nothing unethical and he follows the rules then he should remain the coach. I know the community had a say in the hiring process and you got what you wanted.
Now you want to change your mind, this man has a family and this is what he does to make a living and it seems as though a select few have changed his life in a negative way.
I dont know all the facts so far be it for me to comment on the situation but this is just waht I see from the outside looking in.
someone spill the beans on the rest of the story
I had the pleasure of doing some mental skills coaching over at Marcus for Coach Chumbley and his players in '06 and '07 and I can say that this is a very fine man and passionate baseball teacher. Like anyone, he has strengths and weaknesses. It's clear that some think that one "weakness" (he wouldn't call it that, of course) is his inflexibility. He's a "my way or the highway" guy, and it doesn't change on game day. Some would call him "old school, like Bobby Knight." When he came to Marcus, my understanding is that the program needed discipline and his style was mostly welcomed. The honeymoon ended quick enough, and lately his style has obviously worn out its welcome. This reminds me more of a professional situation where he's not right or wrong, just a good fit one time and not another. Clearly there are athletes who benefited a ton from his style, and others who would've had more success under a different style.
Personally, I think Coach Chumbley would get better outcomes if he'd help his players relax during games, but I don't argue with his belief that if they can learn to relax playing for him (practice, game, or anytime), they'll be able to relax in the toughest championship moment.
An interesting question is this: will Marcus be able to find a coach who can teach toughness to a group of guys, but still keep everyone happy enough to keep his job? My answer: it is possible, but winning will be required.
Personally, I think Coach Chumbley would get better outcomes if he'd help his players relax during games, but I don't argue with his belief that if they can learn to relax playing for him (practice, game, or anytime), they'll be able to relax in the toughest championship moment.
An interesting question is this: will Marcus be able to find a coach who can teach toughness to a group of guys, but still keep everyone happy enough to keep his job? My answer: it is possible, but winning will be required.
tough district to win in and if winning is a pre requisite then the job may not be that good.
Tough situation!!!!
Not sure many would want to enter this place as it will be tough to do it your way and still appease others to keep your job.
What has the high school coaching profession come to.
Even when you win you may not be safe.
I am willing to bet if the parents are really honest, if asked this question I would not be surprised with their answer.
Would you rather win a state championship and lil Johnny sit the bench, or not make the play-offs at all but lil Johnny plays every inning.
Why dont we have a little survey and see what people think. Everyone chime in on this one and be real honest.
Tough situation!!!!
Not sure many would want to enter this place as it will be tough to do it your way and still appease others to keep your job.
What has the high school coaching profession come to.
Even when you win you may not be safe.
I am willing to bet if the parents are really honest, if asked this question I would not be surprised with their answer.
Would you rather win a state championship and lil Johnny sit the bench, or not make the play-offs at all but lil Johnny plays every inning.
Why dont we have a little survey and see what people think. Everyone chime in on this one and be real honest.
I believe there is way too much emphasis put on winning in amatuer baseball.
Of course anyone with a competitive nature wants to win. If you don't have it, most likely you won't succeed at a high level.
But don't mistake winning with competing. Being able to put HS athletes together in an environment that allows competition under a team concept is what should be important.
If an athletic director selects a coach strickly on his ability to win, then the side show that comes with it should ignored.
But if an athletic director selects a coach to put together a program that can compete along with performing under a "team" concept, then you've got something.
It has been my experience that one goes with the other....
competition within team environment = winning
As for the coach of topic, what I find curious is...
If he had some "major" faults, certainly these should have hit the media critics. Meaning the district would have a specific rule to point to in the guidelines of the job description.
Again, for all I know the guy might have committed some serious crime. But if that was the case, why is it kept under the "parent" blanket?
Sports at every level have changed. There once was a day when a coach demanded respect and those who didn't give it were given the option to do something else.
Today, the tools to gain that respect are most often taken away by policy, innuendo's, and different idea's from the unexperienced.
The true tell tale sign is in the players that played under him. So far, the two I know loved him. That's not to say that there are those that regreted their experience.
I'm sure that some players I coached didn't agree with my style. And of course, as coaches we all do things that we would change while looking back.
But the question still remains... What was the mans intent and was the goal accomplished?
Was it to just win?
Was it to teach discipline, ethics, and a sense of pride along with it?
Were his units a "team" or a cast of individuals?
As for the vote...
"Would you rather win a state championship and lil Johnny sit the bench, or not make the play-offs at all but lil Johnny plays every inning."
I would not care either way. Because my kid will be at showcases anyway.
Of course anyone with a competitive nature wants to win. If you don't have it, most likely you won't succeed at a high level.
But don't mistake winning with competing. Being able to put HS athletes together in an environment that allows competition under a team concept is what should be important.
If an athletic director selects a coach strickly on his ability to win, then the side show that comes with it should ignored.
But if an athletic director selects a coach to put together a program that can compete along with performing under a "team" concept, then you've got something.
It has been my experience that one goes with the other....
competition within team environment = winning
As for the coach of topic, what I find curious is...
If he had some "major" faults, certainly these should have hit the media critics. Meaning the district would have a specific rule to point to in the guidelines of the job description.
Again, for all I know the guy might have committed some serious crime. But if that was the case, why is it kept under the "parent" blanket?
Sports at every level have changed. There once was a day when a coach demanded respect and those who didn't give it were given the option to do something else.
Today, the tools to gain that respect are most often taken away by policy, innuendo's, and different idea's from the unexperienced.
The true tell tale sign is in the players that played under him. So far, the two I know loved him. That's not to say that there are those that regreted their experience.
I'm sure that some players I coached didn't agree with my style. And of course, as coaches we all do things that we would change while looking back.
But the question still remains... What was the mans intent and was the goal accomplished?
Was it to just win?
Was it to teach discipline, ethics, and a sense of pride along with it?
Were his units a "team" or a cast of individuals?
As for the vote...
"Would you rather win a state championship and lil Johnny sit the bench, or not make the play-offs at all but lil Johnny plays every inning."
I would not care either way. Because my kid will be at showcases anyway.
Things have changed. there use to be loyalty but now there is none. Schools have no loayalty, players have no loyalty and coaches have no loyalty. It is a 2 way street. don't think that only parents and schools have changed. Coaches have changed also. Coaches have no problem leaving kids high and dry for the all mighty dollar, so they shouldn't have a problem when schools do it to them.
I've always told people the same thing for the past few years... As the kids get older the parents get worse.
I know nothing about this coach and have never seen the team play but in my opinion only... if you let the parents decide who the coach is you have a major problem...
I know nothing about this coach and have never seen the team play but in my opinion only... if you let the parents decide who the coach is you have a major problem...
Let me play devil advocates: who should decide? people that are not around the coach, the players or the team? people who don't come to the games? people that have no clue to what is going on?
again, I don't know anything about this coach but there are some coaches that have no business being around kids. same can be said about some parents.
again, I don't know anything about this coach but there are some coaches that have no business being around kids. same can be said about some parents.
All I know is whoever takes this job will have his work cut out for him. New District Coppell, Southlake, FM, Hebron these will be the teams that make the playoffs, no MHS.
Coach C never had a chance, I know who runs the program and it is not the coach.
Coach C never had a chance, I know who runs the program and it is not the coach.
quote:Originally posted by ctiger:
Wow, from reading these posts it seems that the community had a big say in what happened here.
What has this profession come to when a digruntled group can fire a coach. If he has done nothing unethical and he follows the rules then he should remain the coach. I know the community had a say in the hiring process and you got what you wanted.
Now you want to change your mind, this man has a family and this is what he does to make a living and it seems as though a select few have changed his life in a negative way.
I dont know all the facts so far be it for me to comment on the situation but this is just waht I see from the outside looking in.
someone spill the beans on the rest of the story
My interest in Marcus baseball has dwindled to zero since my son graduated in 2004, the last year of Jeff Harp's tenure. So I have no opinion or insight into the specifics of this situation.
To the thoughts expressed by ctiger: When a person is working in a position that represents a community in a public setting (let's say maybe a high school baseball coach) then the community should have a say in the type of person hired or retained in the position. Ultimately the principal and school district are responsible for hiring & firing decisions of coaches. But as taxpayers supporting the school, and as community citizens I believe that, according to the political system we agree to live under, we are allowed to voice our opinions to school leadership and suggest change.
Add to this the close relationship between athletic programs and booster clubs (encouraged by athletic programs for fund raising purposes) and you can better understand why parents want to have a persuasive voice in how a program is run. Taxes, volunteer hours, fund raising for the program, etc... all contribute to a person's belief that they have a personal investment in the program, and if program is not performing to expectations, whatever those expectations are, opinions will be expressed and actions taken.
From Ken:
quote:I believe there is way too much emphasis put on winning in amatuer baseball.
Truer words about HS baseball may have never been spoken. Taking this thought just a little farther - all athletics programs have too much emphasis placed on them in HS and in college. JMO.
I don't know anything about the Marcus coach, but I can say with certainty that on occasion, there is good reason to remove a coach from his position.
At my son's school, there are phenomenal coaches across the board, but there is one bad apple (in a different sport) who has absolutely ruined his players' love for the sport and alienated everyone around him. This year, the players and parents were exhilarated when the team did NOT make the playoffs because they were so eager to be done with the season. Now, that's sad.
Folks have written anonymous letters to the district and everyone -- from the top brass on down -- is aware of the situation, but until several people are willing to step forward and be identified, the district apparently cannot take any action. Many parents are scared to do so because they are worried they will jeopardize their son's chances on the team. Perhaps one day, boldness will overtake fear and folks will openly state what needs to be said.
At my son's school, there are phenomenal coaches across the board, but there is one bad apple (in a different sport) who has absolutely ruined his players' love for the sport and alienated everyone around him. This year, the players and parents were exhilarated when the team did NOT make the playoffs because they were so eager to be done with the season. Now, that's sad.
Folks have written anonymous letters to the district and everyone -- from the top brass on down -- is aware of the situation, but until several people are willing to step forward and be identified, the district apparently cannot take any action. Many parents are scared to do so because they are worried they will jeopardize their son's chances on the team. Perhaps one day, boldness will overtake fear and folks will openly state what needs to be said.
quote:Originally posted by dbg_fan:quote:Originally posted by ctiger:
Wow, from reading these posts it seems that the community had a big say in what happened here.
What has this profession come to when a digruntled group can fire a coach. If he has done nothing unethical and he follows the rules then he should remain the coach. I know the community had a say in the hiring process and you got what you wanted.
Now you want to change your mind, this man has a family and this is what he does to make a living and it seems as though a select few have changed his life in a negative way.
I dont know all the facts so far be it for me to comment on the situation but this is just waht I see from the outside looking in.
someone spill the beans on the rest of the story
My interest in Marcus baseball has dwindled to zero since my son graduated in 2004, the last year of Jeff Harp's tenure. So I have no opinion or insight into the specifics of this situation.
To the thoughts expressed by ctiger: When a person is working in a position that represents a community in a public setting (let's say maybe a high school baseball coach) then the community should have a say in the type of person hired or retained in the position. Ultimately the principal and school district are responsible for hiring & firing decisions of coaches. But as taxpayers supporting the school, and as community citizens I believe that, according to the political system we agree to live under, we are allowed to voice our opinions to school leadership and suggest change.
Add to this the close relationship between athletic programs and booster clubs (encouraged by athletic programs for fund raising purposes) and you can better understand why parents want to have a persuasive voice in how a program is run. Taxes, volunteer hours, fund raising for the program, etc... all contribute to a person's belief that they have a personal investment in the program, and if program is not performing to expectations, whatever those expectations are, opinions will be expressed and actions taken.
As much as I hate admitting it (not about the author but the opinions presented), what you say makes sense.
Although, can I present a novel concept?
When we think of the glory days in sports, what era do we point to?
My guess is the later half of the 20th century. If someone says 21st then be prepared for the 'what's wrong with sports today' arguement.
When we think about the great coaches in all sports of that era, what characteristics did they carry?
Can we put Sparky Anderson, Billy Martin, Tommy Lasorda, Pat Riley, Red Arbach, Tom Landry, Chuck Knoll, Lou Holtz, Bobby Bowden, Lou Paterno, Rick Patino, and Dean Smith in the catagory?
I ask what did these coaches have in common besides great players?
quote:Originally posted by Infield08:
Perhaps one day, boldness will overtake fear and folks will openly state what needs to be said.
What about when coaches say what needs to be said?
Sometimes folks don't like that and turn it into a threat on job security or popularity.
We live in a "pat on the butt" society now.
Everyone gets a trophy, there are A,B, and C teams, and private instructors that couldn't succeed themself.
It all depends on who you talk to as to what is right or wrong.
But one thing both sides will agree on............
The TEAM is most important.
Or is it?
That is the question we all must ask.
There is a way to say what needs to be said without alientating everyone around you and ruining everyone's enjoyment and love for the sport.
Although I don't know much about him, I will say one of his players expressed tons of frustration with playing under him. Here's an example of how one of these conversations might have gone (in a very simplified shortened form).
Me: So is he just not a good coach?
Player: Well, he knows his stuff, he REALLY knows his stuff, but it’s just not fun learning.
I agree with lots of the points made previously on this thread, and Ken you are most definitely correct in your claim about amateur baseball. However, I will say that baseball is still a game, and while there is little doubt in me that this coach did not love this game to the fullest, I feel that his tactics could've possibly made the kid's experiences more enjoyable. Baseball is a game. Every time I step onto the field, I have the time of my life. There's no rush like it. The day that stops is the day I will stop. Through these conversations, I got the impression that for (few, some, most); the coach had worn off that luster.
I also know of another kid who, upon having problems with his coach for years, went in to personally speak with his coach to address those problems he had on a personal and team level. In doing so that individual "called out" the coach if you will in a very respectful way. Thankfully for him and the program, the coach saw the intent in the message to not be selfish, and changed some of his tactics. From all I know, the kid, and the rest of his teammates were considerably happier and had more fun afterwards.
I know this coach might've been the definition of intimidating, but I'm curious to see if this was ever tried?
Me: So is he just not a good coach?
Player: Well, he knows his stuff, he REALLY knows his stuff, but it’s just not fun learning.
I agree with lots of the points made previously on this thread, and Ken you are most definitely correct in your claim about amateur baseball. However, I will say that baseball is still a game, and while there is little doubt in me that this coach did not love this game to the fullest, I feel that his tactics could've possibly made the kid's experiences more enjoyable. Baseball is a game. Every time I step onto the field, I have the time of my life. There's no rush like it. The day that stops is the day I will stop. Through these conversations, I got the impression that for (few, some, most); the coach had worn off that luster.
I also know of another kid who, upon having problems with his coach for years, went in to personally speak with his coach to address those problems he had on a personal and team level. In doing so that individual "called out" the coach if you will in a very respectful way. Thankfully for him and the program, the coach saw the intent in the message to not be selfish, and changed some of his tactics. From all I know, the kid, and the rest of his teammates were considerably happier and had more fun afterwards.
I know this coach might've been the definition of intimidating, but I'm curious to see if this was ever tried?
quote:Originally posted by Infield08:
There is a way to say what needs to be said without alientating everyone around you and ruining everyone's enjoyment and love for the sport.
I agree.
But sometimes ones translation turns into anothers disconcern.
Case in point.
Mr. Coach preaches a certain concept must be accepted before Jr. player gets PT.
Jr. player just won't get it and Mr. Coach won't give in.
Jr. player gets tucked in each night from Mr. and Mrs. Jr. player.
Now you have different opinions and ideas presented to Jr. player by Mr. Coach and Mr. and Mrs. Jr. player.
What do you think sets in more?????
What Mr. and Mrs. Jr. player is digruntled about or the original concept that Mr. Coach put forth that wasn't accomplished?
quote:Originally posted by Dtiger:
Although I don't know much about him, I will say one of his players expressed tons of frustration with playing under him. Here's an example of how one of these conversations might have gone (in a very simplified shortened form).
Me: So is he just not a good coach?
Player: Well, he knows his stuff, he REALLY knows his stuff, but it’s just not fun learning.
I agree with lots of the points made previously on this thread, and Ken you are most definitely correct in your claim about amateur baseball. However, I will say that baseball is still a game, and while there is little doubt in me that this coach did not love this game to the fullest, I feel that his tactics could've possibly made the kid's experiences more enjoyable. Baseball is a game. Every time I step onto the field, I have the time of my life. There's no rush like it. The day that stops is the day I will stop. Through these conversations, I got the impression that for (few, some, most); the coach had worn off that luster.
I also know of another kid who, upon having problems with his coach for years, went in to personally speak with his coach to address those problems he had on a personal and team level. In doing so that individual "called out" the coach if you will in a very respectful way. Thankfully for him and the program, the coach saw the intent in the message to not be selfish, and changed some of his tactics. From all I know, the kid, and the rest of his teammates were considerably happier and had more fun afterwards.
I know this coach might've been the definition of intimidating, but I'm curious to see if this was ever tried?
Again you amaze me in your thoughts put in text.
And I praise you for seeing things like you do.
In fact, you bring something up that is completely accurate...........
FUN. (this is what I gained from your post as important)
What makes athletics fun?
You can say what you want but winning makes it fun.
all kids are competitive and our society has put a high priority on winnning.
I too believe if you dont worry about the end result, and worry more about the process that it takes to get there, then winning takes care of itself in my opinion.
dbg- you cant tell me that you think it is a good situation when the parents have a direct effect on a coaches job security. Taxpayer or not some parents have an agenda and if this agenda is not met then it is the coaches fault. This parent will then "rally the troops" and walla the coach is fired.
Ive seen this time and time again...
Taxpayers are just as incompetent as anyone else and they should not determine a mans job security.
If coaches were paid 2 million a year then I can see this concept working out just fine. But 80% of this mans salary is for teaching not coaching so we are talking about 4500 taxpayers dollars...
Just a thought....
all kids are competitive and our society has put a high priority on winnning.
I too believe if you dont worry about the end result, and worry more about the process that it takes to get there, then winning takes care of itself in my opinion.
dbg- you cant tell me that you think it is a good situation when the parents have a direct effect on a coaches job security. Taxpayer or not some parents have an agenda and if this agenda is not met then it is the coaches fault. This parent will then "rally the troops" and walla the coach is fired.
Ive seen this time and time again...
Taxpayers are just as incompetent as anyone else and they should not determine a mans job security.
If coaches were paid 2 million a year then I can see this concept working out just fine. But 80% of this mans salary is for teaching not coaching so we are talking about 4500 taxpayers dollars...
Just a thought....
I heard this guy go off on a pitcher for throwing four balls in a SCRIMMAGE where it was 45 degrees and the wind was blowing 30 mph. He demeaned this kid in front of his teammates, his oppenents and the fans and parents of both teams.
This was in one of his first scrimmages when he got to town.
I saw this guy try to instigate a fight between himself and a pitcher on an opposing team during the playoffs. The scuffle that happened between the pitcher and his own assistant coach who was trying to hold the kid back was one of the reasons the assistant got fired from his job.
I was amazed he lasted as long as he did. If my son had to play for him, I would have moved.
And from what I recall, Lewisville ISD is on the block schedule, which means this guy teaches one class a day....hardly 80% of his salary.
This was in one of his first scrimmages when he got to town.
I saw this guy try to instigate a fight between himself and a pitcher on an opposing team during the playoffs. The scuffle that happened between the pitcher and his own assistant coach who was trying to hold the kid back was one of the reasons the assistant got fired from his job.
I was amazed he lasted as long as he did. If my son had to play for him, I would have moved.
And from what I recall, Lewisville ISD is on the block schedule, which means this guy teaches one class a day....hardly 80% of his salary.
This is an interesting conversation. I would like to address some of your comments more specifically.
Well, not all kids or people are competitive. My limited and dated coaching experience can testify to that. Shoot, just comparing the personalities of my children growing up will testify to the differences in competitive spirit among people.
Our society does emphasize winning. Generally this is good. Winning companies thrive, make money, and support many families. Losing companies go bankrupt and throw people into unemployment. I have worked for both types of companies.
Parents (customers, really) do not have a direct effect on teachers job security. At best their effect is indirect. As I understand it, principals have the ultimate authority in hiring & firing decisions (within union negotiated policies). In days long ago when communities directly hired teachers for their school house, parents had a direct effect on hiring. No longer. IMO, it is the principal's responsibility to recognize ulterior agendas in his evaluation of parent (customer) complaints, and defend his teacher/coach appropriately. Principals should attend games, assess the coach, assess the quality of talent available to the coach, assess the opposition, and factor this information in with any complaints received from the outside (parents).
This is interesting because barring economics (see point about losing companies above), I think that we alone (me, you, anybody) are responsible for our own job security. This is based on attitude, talent, results, communication skills, behavior, etc... Everyone is in complete control of these facets in our character.
Ultimately, if you want to reduce or eliminate the influence parents may have in coaching hiring/firing decisions then you have to reduce or eliminate their involvement in your game. Eliminate the booster club. Stop asking parents to help with field maintenance, concession stand duty, baseball programs, selling advertising, sponsoring craft shows. End parent involvement in fund raising activities. 'Privatize' your team and reduce the number of voices contributing opinions about how the team is operated.
quote:all kids are competitive and our society has put a high priority on winnning.
Well, not all kids or people are competitive. My limited and dated coaching experience can testify to that. Shoot, just comparing the personalities of my children growing up will testify to the differences in competitive spirit among people.
Our society does emphasize winning. Generally this is good. Winning companies thrive, make money, and support many families. Losing companies go bankrupt and throw people into unemployment. I have worked for both types of companies.
quote:you cant tell me that you think it is a good situation when the parents have a direct effect on a coaches job security. ... some parents have an agenda and if this agenda is not met then it is the coaches fault.
Parents (customers, really) do not have a direct effect on teachers job security. At best their effect is indirect. As I understand it, principals have the ultimate authority in hiring & firing decisions (within union negotiated policies). In days long ago when communities directly hired teachers for their school house, parents had a direct effect on hiring. No longer. IMO, it is the principal's responsibility to recognize ulterior agendas in his evaluation of parent (customer) complaints, and defend his teacher/coach appropriately. Principals should attend games, assess the coach, assess the quality of talent available to the coach, assess the opposition, and factor this information in with any complaints received from the outside (parents).
quote:Taxpayers are just as incompetent as anyone else and they should not determine a mans job security.
If coaches were paid 2 million a year then I can see this concept working out just fine. But 80% of this mans salary is for teaching not coaching so we are talking about 4500 taxpayers dollars...
This is interesting because barring economics (see point about losing companies above), I think that we alone (me, you, anybody) are responsible for our own job security. This is based on attitude, talent, results, communication skills, behavior, etc... Everyone is in complete control of these facets in our character.
Ultimately, if you want to reduce or eliminate the influence parents may have in coaching hiring/firing decisions then you have to reduce or eliminate their involvement in your game. Eliminate the booster club. Stop asking parents to help with field maintenance, concession stand duty, baseball programs, selling advertising, sponsoring craft shows. End parent involvement in fund raising activities. 'Privatize' your team and reduce the number of voices contributing opinions about how the team is operated.
quote:Parents (customers, really) do not have a direct effect on teachers job security. At best their effect is indirect. As I understand it, principals have the ultimate authority in hiring & firing decisions (within union negotiated policies).
BINGO. Ask (almost) anyone in the public school system and they will be the first to tell you that firing a teacher and/or coach (after their first year) is difficult at best regardless of their performance. Many coaches are re-assigned or transferred within their own district throughout the year. HOWEVER, very, very few teachers and/or coaches are entirely removed from all of their duties due to the stringent process the school districts must go through.
I have absolutely NO first-hand knowledge of the situation, but I feel certain that liability issues would preclude a school district from listening to a single group of disgruntled parents.
And, Ken... my idea of a "fun" season? The same as it has always been -- for my son to leave the season with his love and passion for the game of baseball still intact!
I remembered a couple of posts I did back last spring after McKinney North played Marcus in a tournament. Someone started a thread about this guys 400th win and I wrote the following:
Are you sure his name isn't spelled C-H-U-M-P-L-E-Y?
I had the pleasure of seeing this coach in action on Thursday night, and all I can say is..........Never mind, I won't say it.
After that I got some responses from a couple of people and I wrote the following:
Hey Swami and ESP..........I appreciate you guys holding back on dogging me. I see how you could very easily after what I wrote. Thank you for the nice words ESP, I appreciate them very much.
With that said.......What I didn't like seeing was how he was SO negative when a kid didn't do what HE wanted the kid to do. Instead of encouraging the kid and lifting him up, he would show up the kid. He seemed like he was just a real negative guy. If a kid swung and missed a pitch or a bunt, he would turn his back and shake his head for 10 seconds. He just seemed like it was his mission to show up the kids. I'm glad to hear that what seemed like a chump is actually a pretty good guy. Thank you for letting me know.
Congratulations Swami on your great start. I wish you all the best this year.
I saw this coach again this year over at Plano West one Saturday and he was still the same. I hate for a guy to lose his job, but it may be what's best for the Marcus program. I guess time will tell.
Are you sure his name isn't spelled C-H-U-M-P-L-E-Y?
I had the pleasure of seeing this coach in action on Thursday night, and all I can say is..........Never mind, I won't say it.
After that I got some responses from a couple of people and I wrote the following:
Hey Swami and ESP..........I appreciate you guys holding back on dogging me. I see how you could very easily after what I wrote. Thank you for the nice words ESP, I appreciate them very much.
With that said.......What I didn't like seeing was how he was SO negative when a kid didn't do what HE wanted the kid to do. Instead of encouraging the kid and lifting him up, he would show up the kid. He seemed like he was just a real negative guy. If a kid swung and missed a pitch or a bunt, he would turn his back and shake his head for 10 seconds. He just seemed like it was his mission to show up the kids. I'm glad to hear that what seemed like a chump is actually a pretty good guy. Thank you for letting me know.
Congratulations Swami on your great start. I wish you all the best this year.
I saw this coach again this year over at Plano West one Saturday and he was still the same. I hate for a guy to lose his job, but it may be what's best for the Marcus program. I guess time will tell.
kdm,
You speak what seems to be the truth but as a dad of a player of two 5A sports I have grown to understand and appreciate what these men have to do as high school coaches. And I have seen both sides of this coin.
Our baseball coach puts it this way " I will play the best 9 not necessarily the 9 best".
That might be the deepest thing any coach can say.
As a high school coach they must first win in order to keep their jobs if they are to be able to be around long enough to "love the game" in a way that develops players.
Coach C at Marcus is not the subject of my e-mail, in fact I like the fact that the parents and players were able to bring about a change in a program that they felt did not represent their community and what they felt was in the best interest of their sons.
This is a fine line, one I hope doesn't get crossed often.
Some where there has to be a common ground that an AD can see between promoting a good athletic environment and supporting a coach. No AD worth his salt can be known for not defending his coach but I hope a lot of AD's around Texas take note of what happen at Marcus and realize that the noise coming from the Boosters isn't always BS and this goes for all sports.
From the outside looking in, Coach C got the players attention and they knew how to win (Coppell and Marcus have played each other many times during Coach C's tenure) but in the end the baseball experience wasn't good for the community and it was time for a change....the AD should have done his baseball coach a favor and helped him find a place better suited for his style before this happened.
Times change and communities change and that bring coaching changes but in the end I hope what doesn't change is that we expect the players to play hard and not complain while learning discipline, respect for others and the sport and learn how to have integrity. The coach is supposed to help them gain this experience.
I think Coach C delivered on some of those things but not enough to keep his job. I am glad I don't have to work in that environment and I respect those that do.
Just My Humble Opinion.
You speak what seems to be the truth but as a dad of a player of two 5A sports I have grown to understand and appreciate what these men have to do as high school coaches. And I have seen both sides of this coin.
Our baseball coach puts it this way " I will play the best 9 not necessarily the 9 best".
That might be the deepest thing any coach can say.
As a high school coach they must first win in order to keep their jobs if they are to be able to be around long enough to "love the game" in a way that develops players.
Coach C at Marcus is not the subject of my e-mail, in fact I like the fact that the parents and players were able to bring about a change in a program that they felt did not represent their community and what they felt was in the best interest of their sons.
This is a fine line, one I hope doesn't get crossed often.
Some where there has to be a common ground that an AD can see between promoting a good athletic environment and supporting a coach. No AD worth his salt can be known for not defending his coach but I hope a lot of AD's around Texas take note of what happen at Marcus and realize that the noise coming from the Boosters isn't always BS and this goes for all sports.
From the outside looking in, Coach C got the players attention and they knew how to win (Coppell and Marcus have played each other many times during Coach C's tenure) but in the end the baseball experience wasn't good for the community and it was time for a change....the AD should have done his baseball coach a favor and helped him find a place better suited for his style before this happened.
Times change and communities change and that bring coaching changes but in the end I hope what doesn't change is that we expect the players to play hard and not complain while learning discipline, respect for others and the sport and learn how to have integrity. The coach is supposed to help them gain this experience.
I think Coach C delivered on some of those things but not enough to keep his job. I am glad I don't have to work in that environment and I respect those that do.
Just My Humble Opinion.
I know there are two sides to every story. Dealing with parents who are not always grounded in reality must challenge even the best coaches. I wonder what traits the coaches that consistently are competitive, maintain a high level of respect from players and parents, and stay at one program for years have in common? I am just curious because I have not experienced this. I know from reading posts that these coaches and programs do exist, don’t they?