New member, HS umpire

Welcome!  And I am sure once people realize your here, you will get plenty of questions!

As the father of a catcher, can you talk about the relationship between your regularHS catcher and the ump?  My son shakes the umps hand....walks the ball out if an ump gets smoked, etc.  But I am interested in hearing how much of those little things really do matter to an umpire?  Things that bug the average ump that a catcher may or may not do?  Things like that!

Thanks for hoping on and introducing your self!  

Well the catcher is the only thing between me and a fast ball.  95% of the time I take the hit in my personal protection.  But invariably one gets thru and I get  hit on the edge of the chest protect and mask or hands, thighs or other unprotected areas.  

Prior to my pre-game meeting with the head coaches, I seek out each catcher and introduce myself.  I shake their hand and ask them what their main job is.  Most say "Protect Blue".....then let them ask any questions they have.  

I try to give them the impression that I am a normal guy.  

Behind the plate I make suggestions as to placement.  Frosh catchers may be too close or too far from the batter.  

Some aren't aware of situations such as the infield fly if there are 2 or more runners on base and less than two outs.  They typically know the rule but they aren't cognizant that the situation is at hand.  

My son is a 2020 but catches more like an upper class man....Not the biggest but more technical than a normal frosh...

How does the catcher/ump relationship work when his coach maybe riding you a little more than usual?  Kid is back there and the coach is asking  him..."where was that pitch?".   Whats he supposed to say?  "It was a strike coach but the ump blew the call...."    or  " Good call coach, your just blind...."  Do umps tighten a strike zone when that happens?  Anything a catcher can do to smooth those times when the ump/coach relationship has hit divorce status???   LOL

Kevin A:

Generally speaking, most high school varsity catchers are easy to get along with. They're generally tough, athletic young men with good heads on their shoulders and at least a modicum of leadership skills. And their passion for the game is often more evident than it is with other players. What's not to like? I don't care one way or the other about pre-game introductions. If they shake my hand, fine. If they don't, fine.

Little things catchers do or don't do that sometimes bug this umpire a little bit, though not enough to damage the working relationship:

1. Giving up on pitches that still have a chance to become strikes. When catcher the rises out of his stance for a pitch near the top of the zone or turns over his glove to receive a pitch near the bottom of zone deeper and lower than necessary, he makes it impossible for the borderline pitch to get called a strike. 

2. Yanking a borderline pitch into the zone instead of framing it where it's caught. When the catcher yanks it, it means he thinks it's a ball, and I'll agree with him. Just stick it where it is with a slight inward twist of the wrist. 

3. Not being ready to receive immediately a new ball from me when the ball is hit out of play. I'll throw the new one out to the pitcher if the catcher isn't ready, and I like showing off my arm, but it's better for the catcher to do it. 

4. Not clearing out quickly on ground balls to the infield with no runners on base. As the plate ump, it's a matter of professional pride to get out to the 45-foot line before the putout is made at first base. If I'm late because I have to wait for or go around a catcher, whose reflexes and agility should be better than mine, then my partner thinks I'm the one who wasn't hustling. 

5. Not grabbing batter-interference outs when easy opportunities present themselves. If the batter falls out of the box or makes a post-swing movement within the box, step up in an attempt to throw and draw enough contact that the interference is apparent--just don't go overboard and apply an unfriendly level of force. 

6. Not being clear on when to call time or not call time. Sometimes catchers request time to talk to the pitcher when there are no runners on base and very little likelihood of the batter attempting to steal first. Sometimes catchers request time when the ball is already dead, such as after a foul ball or a HBP. 

Kevin A posted:

My son is a 2020 but catches more like an upper class man....Not the biggest but more technical than a normal frosh...

How does the catcher/ump relationship work when his coach maybe riding you a little more than usual?  Kid is back there and the coach is asking  him..."where was that pitch?".   Whats he supposed to say?  "It was a strike coach but the ump blew the call...."    or  " Good call coach, your just blind...."  Do umps tighten a strike zone when that happens?  Anything a catcher can do to smooth those times when the ump/coach relationship has hit divorce status???   LOL

The catcher has the best view of the strike zone of anyone at the ballpark, including the plate umpire.

If a coach really can't tell whether a pitch missed high, low, in, or out, he can ask his catcher. 

I seldom acknowledge coach inquiries about pitch location.

Depending on the coach's tone, answering can feed the perception that umpire calls need ratification from the coaches. Because some coaches seem unfamiliar with the "under the jurisdiction of one or more umpires" part of Rule 1.01, I don't want to reinforce their misapprehension of the nature of our relationship by reporting back on a subject they're not permitted to argue.

On occasion, when Coach WhereWasThat repeatedly feels the need to demonstrate his voice projection skills, I tell the catcher sotto voce, "Tell him where it was."

Not once has a catcher not known the answer.  And both coaches and fans will more readily accept the judgment of their man on scene than that of the umpire.

mikezois posted:

Well the catcher is the only thing between me and a fast ball.  95% of the time I take the hit in my personal protection.  But invariably one gets thru and I get  hit on the edge of the chest protect and mask or hands, thighs or other unprotected areas.  

Prior to my pre-game meeting with the head coaches, I seek out each catcher and introduce myself.  I shake their hand and ask them what their main job is.  Most say "Protect Blue".....then let them ask any questions they have.  

I try to give them the impression that I am a normal guy.  

Behind the plate I make suggestions as to placement.  Frosh catchers may be too close or too far from the batter.  

Some aren't aware of situations such as the infield fly if there are 2 or more runners on base and less than two outs.  They typically know the rule but they aren't cognizant that the situation is at hand.  

Mike, 

Welcome to the site. I hope you don't take it amiss when I say I'm uncomfortable with some of the player interactions you describe. 

I don't seek out the catcher. I have assigned pre-game functions and positions. So does the catcher. If the catcher wants to seek me out, he knows where to find me. If he doesn't, I'm not going to interfere with his pre-game routine.

His job is not to "Protect Blue." His job is to keep the other team from scoring. It's my job to look out for myself, trusting my equipment and training, and toughing it out when something gets through.

I don't care if anyone thinks I'm normal. We're not going fishing together after the game. Frankly, I'd rather they thought I was a machine. And besides, no normal person willingly subjects himself to the abuse umpires receive. 

I would never make a suggestion as to player positioning. If I move him up and catcher's interference occurs, it would be on me. If I move him back and a ball gets by him, it would also be on me. Let the coach position his players as he sees fit. 

Similarly, situational awareness is the responsibility of players and coaches. To remind one team of the game status is to put a finger on the scale. No good can come of it.

Best wishes,

I was referring to Freshman catchers and Spring ball.  Now that it is the regular season.  All bets are off.  

Mike-

Your points are awesome!  I am sharing them with my 2020!

Swamp-  I understand your points regarding why you wouldn't position a player, seek them out, etc. It seems like that is something you would do for a MS or freshman game but not a Varsity game.  My son knows to seek the ump out, he won't show the ump up, wont frame a pitch called a ball beyond the call itself.  Won't throw down to third unless its called (tough when the umps are slow in calling strike three!).  At the younger level's I have always appreciated the umps being informative to the players.  Not required obviously but nice to see.  Don't expect to see it at the higher level.

One thing I disagree with you Swamp.  While not in the official job description, my son understands his ability to block correctly can protect his sensitive body parts as well as the man behind him.   For him it is a source of pride that he does his job well, whether helping a pitcher feel comfortable or being a defensive wall.  Having an ump take a ball HE SHOULD have had, one he knows he should have had, doesn't sit well.  And I am ok with him wearing the guilt. LOL

I get to the game 40-45 minutes prior to start.  My association suggests 30 minutes.  The extra time allows me to inspect the field, watch warm up drills, look for issues on the field, make sure there are plenty of NFHS approved balls available and generally get the feel of the teams.  Baseballs....still an issue, especially at tournaments.  Getting grimy, used, hand me downs from the varsity is not acceptable.  

On comments from the coach.  I ignore it until it borders on questioning my calls.  I have been trained on our new policies.  The acknowledgement, with, "that will be enough", the verbal/written warning with confinement to the dugout, then ejection.  I do not change my procedures for any reason.  Blowouts or close games.  Same calls.  Many reasons,  integrity of the game and my rhythm to name two.    

A coach yelling at the catcher asking where the ball was, is bush league.  A coach on the sidelines saying that was a strike is the same.   

Pet peeves, batters call time with no one on base and the pitcher in the set position. Batters stepping out of the box after every pitch.  Disrespectful behavior prior to the start of the game.  

I call the same game FB and BB from Frosh to Varsity.  

Kevin A posted:

Mike-

Your points are awesome!  I am sharing them with my 2020!

Swamp-  I understand your points regarding why you wouldn't position a player, seek them out, etc. It seems like that is something you would do for a MS or freshman game but not a Varsity game.  My son knows to seek the ump out, he won't show the ump up, wont frame a pitch called a ball beyond the call itself.  Won't throw down to third unless its called (tough when the umps are slow in calling strike three!).  At the younger level's I have always appreciated the umps being informative to the players.  Not required obviously but nice to see.  Don't expect to see it at the higher level.

One thing I disagree with you Swamp.  While not in the official job description, my son understands his ability to block correctly can protect his sensitive body parts as well as the man behind him.   For him it is a source of pride that he does his job well, whether helping a pitcher feel comfortable or being a defensive wall.  Having an ump take a ball HE SHOULD have had, one he knows he should have had, doesn't sit well.  And I am ok with him wearing the guilt. LOL

Kevin, 

I appreciate your son's attitude, but there's no purpose served by his feeling any obligation to do anything other trying to win the game. Really, we're not china dolls back there. I'm a 6'4", 210-pound man wearing armor. I can take a few shots. The 5'10", 160-pound catcher doesn't need to worry about shielding me. The only times I've been hurt have been on sharp fouls straight back that the catchers had no chance on. So just let the catcher do his job without adding a layer of guilt on him.

Also, I don't like joking about "your job is to protect blue" because there's an implied consequence: namely, the threat of the umpire exacting some sort of retribution if he gets scuffed up a bit. Even in jest, it rubs me the wrong way.

Hehe....Funny you mentioned "china doll.."

T had an ump hand him a brush to clean home plate cause the ump couldn't bend over to do it himself.   Ump had a hard time getting out behind home plate for plays.  Trying to be respectful but still a head shaker.  LOL

Kevin A posted:

Hehe....Funny you mentioned "china doll.."

T had an ump hand him a brush to clean home plate cause the ump couldn't bend over to do it himself.   Ump had a hard time getting out behind home plate for plays.  Trying to be respectful but still a head shaker.  LOL

From time to time, I want to give my 2018, who catches sometimes, a brush to clean the plate himself cause the umps can't seem to find theirs. Or bend over, apparently.

But I've always assumed that would be rude.

BTW1, "I" never stated "your job is to protect blue".  I merely mentioned that "Protect Blue" was often the response from the catcher when I asked what their job was.  The second leading answer is "I run the pitcher".  My question is designed to see how "on the ball" the player is.  At 5'10" and 170 pounds I am frequently the size of the catcher or less.  

BTW2, The smartest player I have seen this year was a 5'2" Frosh pitcher with pigtails named Suzy. She had control, some heat, a wicked curve, perfect set up pitches, struck out seven in four innings when she ran out of gas. But she lasted an extra inning with placements, set ups and the previously mentioned curve.  

She ran the catcher.  She was 3 hit and went 2 for 3 herself at the plate with a walk.   She left with a 13-1 lead.  The 1 run was due to a passed ball on 3rd strike and the runner that came home on an error and fielder's choice that went out of play.  She wasn't untouchable but she pitched her way out of jams.  

BTW3, I DID type, "I try to give them the impression that I am a normal guy".  Meaning I listen to them. Something that Dadz and coach sometimes neglect to do.  

I also observe.  As an Investigator I got my best information by listening and observing.  I have worked 4 different States since retirement and I am seeing interpretational differences in each location governed by the sames set of rules.  The differences dictates how the games is played in certain areas.  I like the younger groups better as I like to see how their knowledge of the game developed. 

BTW4, Equipment....I noticed a catcher was taking an occasional dirt nap when he went chasing a passed ball. There were many that game.  His shin guards had stretched out straps that wouldn't stay tight. He tripped often (another VAR HMDs and as a result of a low Frosh sports budget...)  

I mentioned to the catcher that I just replaced my straps with elastic I bought from a sewing store. His eyes lit up and said "hey, my Momz is a seamstress".....the coach sent me a note via the AD. Saying thanks for the suggestion.  Too bad unsafe shin guards aren't listed in the NFHS rules like bats and helmets.   

I like the games just for that. The fact that I also get a stipend for doing so is icing on the cake.  

BTW5, I can bend over just fine, I also can find my brush in my ball bag which has a pocket just for it.  I also can move well, I invariably drop back one step on a hit, circle left and up the line or towards the mound or 3rd base depending on where the ball is hit or best location to make the first call or calls.  Since I work many one man games, my head is on a swivel and I need to be in a position to make multiple calls. I do not have the benefit of back up nor eyes in the back of the head....unless the coaches "opinion" counts in your book.  

I am also aware that every team has the potential to be filming.  

MZ

Mike-

Dont care who you are.... Your not going to get every call right and ANYONE  who believes you guys are perfect are nuts!

mikezois posted:

An example is that when a first baseman muffs a throw from another infielder that then goes out of play, the batter/runner is entitled to two bases.  Meaning that the BR is advanced to 3rd base.  Any other runners will get to home.  

 

 

I fail to see how the batter runner gets third base in your example.  If it is the first play by an infielder, the award is two bases from the time of the pitch so the BR is awarded second base.  If it is the second play by the infielder, the award is two bases from the time of the throw and since the BR had not reached first base, he also ends up at second base.  The rule is the same at all levels of baseball.

The BR has already gained 1st base when the throw was muffed by the 1st baseman.  BR was half way to 2nd when the ball finally dribbled into out of play territory.  Hence my call of two bases.  

Kevin A posted:

Mike-

 

Dont care who you are.... Your not going to get every call right and ANYONE  who believes you guys are perfect are nuts!e

If I get 98% or more right, I am happy.  Thinking of wearing a body cam I have cobbled together. Garmin dash cam with a 32gb memory card, external battery to extend internal battery life, iPod arm band.  I should get 4+ hours of video.  I briefly thought about a helmet mount but discarded that idea because I usually pull my helmet when making base calls and fly balls to the outfield.  

Since everyone else is filming, why not me?  Your thoughts?  It would for personal use.....maybe used for training.  My mentor who is a minor league and HS umpire used a GO PRO to document a balk.  

He was the 1st base ump on a three man crew.  He only used it for a few minutes.  

mikezois posted:

The BR has already gained 1st base when the throw was muffed by the 1st baseman.  BR was half way to 2nd when the ball finally dribbled into out of play territory.  Hence my call of two bases.  

When the ball goes out of play is irrelevant.  When the ball was muffed is also irrelevant.  It is either two bases from the time of the pitch if it's the first play by an infielder, or two bases from the time of the throw.

The same scenario was discussed at a training session.  Two bases.  BR gets 3rd base.  

mikezois posted:

The BR has already gained 1st base when the throw was muffed by the 1st baseman.  BR was half way to 2nd when the ball finally dribbled into out of play territory.  

Mike, 

 "Muff" is a football term, not a baseball term. There are no base awards from "time of muff."  This is just a thrown ball that goes out of play. It doesn't matter if the first baseman touched it. And it doesn't matter if it was an errant throw by the other fielder or a true throw mishandled by the first baseman.

Also, it doesn't matter when the ball went out of play or how slowly it dribbled there because there are no base awards from runner's location when the ball goes out of play.

If it's the first throw, the award here is two bases from time of pitch--unless the time of throw occurs after the batter-runner reaches first, in which case it's two bases from time of throw. 

If the batter-runner had not already reached first base when the ball was thrown, he is awarded second base. If he did reach first base before the ball was thrown, he is awarded third base. 

Matt13 just explained the relevant rule and notes in a thread last week. 

Yes, "muff" is a FB term.  My apologies on the incorrect terminology.  I am doing Spring FB passing league AND BB right now and I mix terms on occasion even though it is an accurate description in my mind.  

However, I think I got my point across and that the correct call is BR gets 3rd base.  

Mike,  You are wrong about the BR getting third base unless he acquired first base before the time of the throw.  This is a very basic rule at all levels of baseball.  Your association needs some education.

Mike, 

Welcome to the club. It's great to have new folks that enjoy a sport so much they want to give back.

When a new umpire starts, it's imperative that they get the training and education they need to do the best job they can...I know; I was pretty green when i started at age 15. Thankfully, the Internet was coming into existence, and I was able to learn a lot from online forums, to include where to go for formal training. 

I would suggest heading over to Umpire-Empire.com and getting involved there. Take a bit, dive through the forums, introduce yourself in the Newbie section, and keeping your ears open. Baseball's rules are complex, and a lot of what we need to know isn't in the rule book, but in interpretations and in statements from governing bodies. 

Keep up the effort--you'll see it pay off.

umpire27 posted:

Mike,  You are wrong about the BR getting third base unless he acquired first base before the time of the throw.  This is a very basic rule at all levels of baseball.  Your association needs some education.

Ummm, I have always maintained that the BR had acquired 1st base.  Not sure what your point is.....

Mike,  This is the first time you affirmed the BR had acquired first base.  If he did, you are correct, third base would be the award.

But you said something about the BR had attained first base when the "muff" occurred.  You also said the runner was between first and second base when the ball went out of play.  Neither of those two comments have anything to do with placing the runner.  Time of throw or time of pitch is what we are concerned with.

In my experience, a decently trained infielder would never release a throw  if the BR had already reached to base.

Frosh ball anything can happen.  

You are right Mike, and that is precisely why we as umpires need to have a complete understanding of the rules.  For me, there is no worse feeling when something goofy happens and I am unsure how to rule.

Swampboy posted:

Kevin A:

Generally speaking, most high school varsity catchers are easy to get along with. They're generally tough, athletic young men with good heads on their shoulders and at least a modicum of leadership skills. And their passion for the game is often more evident than it is with other players. What's not to like? I don't care one way or the other about pre-game introductions. If they shake my hand, fine. If they don't, fine.

Little things catchers do or don't do that sometimes bug this umpire a little bit, though not enough to damage the working relationship:

1. Giving up on pitches that still have a chance to become strikes. When catcher the rises out of his stance for a pitch near the top of the zone or turns over his glove to receive a pitch near the bottom of zone deeper and lower than necessary, he makes it impossible for the borderline pitch to get called a strike. 

2. Yanking a borderline pitch into the zone instead of framing it where it's caught. When the catcher yanks it, it means he thinks it's a ball, and I'll agree with him. Just stick it where it is with a slight inward twist of the wrist. 

3. Not being ready to receive immediately a new ball from me when the ball is hit out of play. I'll throw the new one out to the pitcher if the catcher isn't ready, and I like showing off my arm, but it's better for the catcher to do it. 

4. Not clearing out quickly on ground balls to the infield with no runners on base. As the plate ump, it's a matter of professional pride to get out to the 45-foot line before the putout is made at first base. If I'm late because I have to wait for or go around a catcher, whose reflexes and agility should be better than mine, then my partner thinks I'm the one who wasn't hustling. 

5. Not grabbing batter-interference outs when easy opportunities present themselves. If the batter falls out of the box or makes a post-swing movement within the box, step up in an attempt to throw and draw enough contact that the interference is apparent--just don't go overboard and apply an unfriendly level of force. 

6. Not being clear on when to call time or not call time. Sometimes catchers request time to talk to the pitcher when there are no runners on base and very little likelihood of the batter attempting to steal first. Sometimes catchers request time when the ball is already dead, such as after a foul ball or a HBP. 

On #5, this seems to relate to an earlier thread discussing a batter leaning over the plate and stepping on the plate after the swing.  I had suggested that, if a throw to 2B or 3B was necessary, that the catcher "step up" through the plate in an effort to make the throw.  If contact, then my assumption was that the catcher had all rights to this space (i.e. home plate).  Can you confirm this approach is sound and should receive an obstruction call in the batter were to also occupy home plate?

On #6, I envision a batter waiting on the delivery for an extended period of time.  When he gets antsy, he requests time (with no runners) as an available method to regroup.  I guess he could start to step out, but I could see him sometimes not stepping out quickly enough to avoid getting pitched to.  If the batter does not call time, what other options does he have available - and why does having a baserunner make any difference in how he "regroups" (or did I completely miss the boat and maybe you were talking about him wanting to chat with the 3B coach).

On #2, this is one thing I have pointed out to my 11yo.  At that age, you see catchers yanking the glove 4-5 inches at times.  they seem to get in the habit of yanking every pitch back to the center.  I prefer the framing pretty close to where the ball actually is caught.  On that front, what is your opinion as to an acceptable and unacceptable time (in seconds) that the catcher should hold the catch?  I see some high school catchers that will sit there for 3-4 seconds when it is already obvious that no strike was called - looks more like they are voicing their displeasure as opposed to keeping still to give the umpire some extra time to make the "correct" call.  Conversely, not a fan of the batter sprinting down to 1B in hopes the umpire agrees with his ball #4 assessment.  Seems like if they jump too early the umpire is more inclined to call the strike.

2017LHPscrewball posted

On #5, this seems to relate to an earlier thread discussing a batter leaning over the plate and stepping on the plate after the swing.  I had suggested that, if a throw to 2B or 3B was necessary, that the catcher "step up" through the plate in an effort to make the throw.  If contact, then my assumption was that the catcher had all rights to this space (i.e. home plate).  Can you confirm this approach is sound and should receive an obstruction call in the batter were to also occupy home plate?

On #6, I envision a batter waiting on the delivery for an extended period of time.  When he gets antsy, he requests time (with no runners) as an available method to regroup.  I guess he could start to step out, but I could see him sometimes not stepping out quickly enough to avoid getting pitched to.  If the batter does not call time, what other options does he have available - and why does having a baserunner make any difference in how he "regroups" (or did I completely miss the boat and maybe you were talking about him wanting to chat with the 3B coach).

On #2, this is one thing I have pointed out to my 11yo.  At that age, you see catchers yanking the glove 4-5 inches at times.  they seem to get in the habit of yanking every pitch back to the center.  I prefer the framing pretty close to where the ball actually is caught.  On that front, what is your opinion as to an acceptable and unacceptable time (in seconds) that the catcher should hold the catch?  I see some high school catchers that will sit there for 3-4 seconds when it is already obvious that no strike was called - looks more like they are voicing their displeasure as opposed to keeping still to give the umpire some extra time to make the "correct" call.  Conversely, not a fan of the batter sprinting down to 1B in hopes the umpire agrees with his ball #4 assessment.  Seems like if they jump too early the umpire is more inclined to call the strike.

2017LHPScrewball:

#5. The rule is that the batter is out if he interferes with the catcher's fielding and throwing by a) leaning over home plate, b) stepping out of the batter's box, c) making any other movement hindering actions at home plate, or d) failing to make a reasonable effort to vacate a congested area when there is a play at the plate and time to move away. It makes sense for coaches to instruct their catchers to be alert for any of these behaviors on the part of the batter when there are runners on base and to attempt to make a play somewhere, anywhere, that is hindered because of the batter's action. Not doing so is the equivalent of a basketball player faking a defender into the air and then not bothering to attempt a shot and draw the foul. 

#6. I was talking about unnecessarily calling time before visiting the mound, either because the ball is already dead because of previous action or because 

#2.

A. It is reasonable for the catcher to hold a framed pitch about a second longer than the umpire's normal interval between ball hitting mitt and vocalizing the strike call. It's fine to give the ump a full opportunity to decide it really was a strike. Doing it too long calls attention to the difference of opinion. Doing it after framing  a pitch six inches out of the zone is bad form.

B. The batter's anticipation of a potential ball four call does not affect my timing or decision in the least. I understand some batters may try to help the umpire decide it's a ball, and some umpires may resent the help. For my part, I consider it a normal part of the game for batters, coaches, catchers, pitchers, and fans to try to work the umps, so I shrug it all off unless a player or coach crosses the line into unsportsmanlike conduct.

1)  Thanks to all the Umps contributing here!  Love it!

2) Umps seem to be at odds with each other at times.  Goes to show how difficult it is to do the position.

I have been wearing a body cam for the last three games. Changing where I have it on my body.  On my left arm/bicep gives the best angle for the plate.  But only on RH batters and too much movement when I move out from behind the plate.  Arm motion due to calls and movement when running.  

It also is pretty worthless for calls in the field.  LH batters, the catcher blocks the plate.   

I switched to my left breast.  Great for on field documentation of field calls but the plate view is from the thigh down.  But less bounce from my movements. LH batters still get blocked by the catcher.  

Today I will try higher up on my uni above my association patch.  Can't block that....the HIC would have a conniption.  

I can post a link of the video of me getting smacked by a fast ball and a foul tip a f link to google drive is allowed.  

Mike - welcome.  First off, there are a lot of smart umps on this site - listen to them. A batter almost NEVER gets awarded 3rd on a ball going OOP. If the first throw of an infielder goes out OOP, everyone gets 2 bases from the time of pitch (TOP).  Period. No discussion. I don't care where the batter is.  Even if he crosses 1st BEFORE the throw, he STILL only gets 2nd. Throws OOP can happen a lot in small towns where the fields are used for other sports or cow pastures. (Yes, I'm from WI). There are rarely real fences, let alone walls so this rule is very important. If they're trying to turn 2, and the 2nd infielder releases the ball AFTER the batter touches 1st and it goes OOP, then and only then would he get 3rd.  Otherwise, he still only gets 2nd.

Secondly, respect your HS coaches. A lot of them know the rules as well or better than we do. (This is because they are usually trying to find a way around them!) I agree that there are few boobs out there.  But there are a few boobs wearing blue as well. Be careful. Don't underestimate the coaches.

Last, a body cam? Not really sure where you're going with that.

mikezois posted:

umpire27 posted:

Mike,  You are wrong about the BR getting third base unless he acquired first base before the time of the throw.  This is a very basic rule at all levels of baseball.  Your association needs some education.

Ummm, I have always maintained that the BR had acquired 1st base.  Not sure what your point is.....

I read your previous posts as saying that BR was at first when the ball was muffed -- not when it was thrown.

And, to your OP (re: OBR vs. FED) -- this rule is the same in all codes

Body cam+review=better umpire....as in myself.  

As to coaches, I reviewed the incident with the HIC.  He agreed with my calls and forwarded his comments to the HC.  Now we have an informed HC.  

I was incorrect in my haste to reply.  That's what's great about these Forums...we always learn!  If ALL runners have advanced to the next base prior to the THROW, then the award is 2 bases from the TOT, not TOP, regardless if it is the first throw from an infielder.  (I mean seriously.....who writes these rules?)

OK, now that my intro has been suitably dissected....can we talk about equipment?  

I prefer a hockey style helmet as opposed to the traditional slip on mask.  In my last association up north, "buckets" were frowned on by the old school, just because.....

In HS baseball, especially Freshman level, where I have been relegated to since I am a new member in a new association, you never know where the ball is going to end up.....the helmet is a great idea. Anyways to end my run on sentences, I use a Nike branded bucket.  

Balls ricochet off the cage and I have been whacked on the top of the head by high velocity foul tips. So I have validated my choice. I love the helmet but the padding is horrible.  The chin pad continuously chafes my skin, so I have wrapped it in muslin.  The side pads have de-laminated and I have made repairs using silicon sealer.

So my long winded question ends with, what is the toughest mask/helmet combo?  Easton or what?  

Nike is no help, the original retailer says I voided any warranty after I rattle canned it black as required by our uniform code and to cover logos. Can't find a supplier to sell me me replacement pads.... 

Mike,

I personally am no fan of the buckets, and I've tried out a couple of them. But here is some advice collected by the resident gear junkie of an Umpire website that many of us frequent.

Of the 9 Major League umpires that wear Buckets:

5 of them wear the All Star System 7

4 of them wear the Wilson Shock FX

I'd advise to start looking at them first. Of all our gear that we invest money in, the Mask and CP should be Pro level quality.

Welcome to the site!.....ditch that Nike asap...........its well past its expiration date! 

Thanks for the lead.  Looks like the Wilson is the best bet.....

and note,  replacement padding can be bought easily for both of those helmets.........