Not hustling down the line.

Bryce Harper, for one. He may act like a punk sometimes but he hustles when it counts.

Jeter and Trout always hustle down the line.

Michael Young gives it his all every play.

I watch the Royals a lot and they can't win many games but it isn't cuz they don't hustle. Hosmer really beats it down the line hard and so does Gordon.. but really all of them do... they just can't get a hit with 2 out and men on.

I've been watching this for quite a while, because I also care a lot about husting up the line. But this is what I've noticed most MLB players really do:

IF (you're a known power hitter, AND you hit a grounder ) THEN,
Makeit look respectable, but don't pull a hammy,
ELSEIF ( you hit a routine infield grounder) THEN,
Get up the line fast enough to beat a bobble or bad throw,
ELSEIF

(chopper),
Freakin' hustle,
ELSE
Freakin' hustle,
ENDIF

This is actually not bad basesball.

quote:

My question is; who impresses you most with their hustle, no matter where they hit the ball?

And who hacks you off the most by the lack of hustle?

Harper, Trout & Pedroia hustle. None of the other Red Sox position players hustle. Don't get me started.

You would think every major leaguer would hustle Since even major leaguers are more prone to errors if they have to rush the play as opposed to jogging down the line where all the pressure is taken off

Also considering these players are millionaires and don't have to work a day in their lives, why can't they hustle every play. There's no excuse not to

Nothhing drives me crazier than a Major league player who doesn't hustle . One of my favorite coaching sayings is , any team can beat you but no team should ever out hustle you . Hustle is simple and leaves a good impression .

How much of this falls into the category of, "We got 162 games to play - don't make me rush to make a routine play, and I'll do you the same courtesy"?

I don't necessarily agree with it, but that seems to happen often.

As others have stated I think for most of these guys it comes down to staying healthy.

Watching most Rangers games I sure wish Ogando hadn't had to leg out that bunt in interleague, he hasn't been the same after the pulled groin stint on the DL. A simple sac bunt vs. base hit would have been better long term for all.

Just last night Napoli hits one in the hole looks like a hit but SS makes a nice play and they turn two. He shuts it down about half way down the line still nursing that nasty sprained ankle from the playoffs last October.

Now Craig Gentry. That guy flat out busts it down the line every time. I have seen him get a base hit on a one hopper to third playing back. That is fun to watch for sure.

Could it be a generational thing? I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a guy in the major leagues that sprints down the line no matter what, every single time he puts the ball in play for 162 today. I'm not sure if this is a sign of the times, but my dad has often commented how George Brett sprinted to 1b on a two-hop back to the pitcher. Guess I've kinda adopted that.

On the other hand, I can see how it's advantageous for a guy like Prince Fielder to not sprint down the line on obvious outs. I'm not saying he walks down the line, but he's not going to be beating out very many infield singles, so why risk getting hurt when he can just jog the bases his next at-bat?

quote:

Originally posted by mstcks:

On the other hand, I can see how it's advantageous for a guy like Prince Fielder to not sprint down the line on obvious outs. I'm not saying he walks down the line, but he's not going to be beating out very many infield singles, so why risk getting hurt when he can just jog the bases his next at-bat?

Sadly when you make an exception for one, others will follow. Additionally if you start worrying about injuries, that could be an excuse for almost any player not to hustle.

Anytime I see someone dogging it to 1st(aka lollygagging), I think of this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnIaqAsnSxU

I'm with the OP, these guys are getting paid to play the best game on earth. There is no excuse for lack of hustle. The Ty Cobb's and Pete Roses of the world are what kids should strive to emulate, not the to cool for school crowd.

A few years back I decided to try to quantify some things about foot speed in baseball. I began with getting a 40 yard time for every player. Then I got the H-1 and H-2 times almost every head coach, ours especially, get for each player. With those things done under the best of conditions and with all the players being totally focused on them, I began to gather the important data, that being what was happening in games.

What I did was keep a stopwatch ready, and timed the players as closely as possible every time there was a BIP situation, from contact with the ball, to contact with 1st base. I ended up having to break everything down into different categories, based on the BIP. Every runner acted differently based on whether the BIP ended up as an out, a hit, or the batter reaching on an error. Also, for each category, there were max, min, and avg times.

The results were pretty eye opening, and really embarrassing as well. It was simple to look at the data and see who the true “hustlers” were, and in most cases they weren’t who conventional thinking had them being. I ended up stopping doing it because my SKing duties were more important to me, plus the acrimony it caused was getting uglier with each passing game. Its best to keep the truth hidden if little or nothing is going to be done to correct the problems discovered. There's no reason to believe the same thing wouldn't happen at every level, even the highest.

I know that some players have injury issues and to expect them all to bust down the line for a grounder to the pitcher is not realistic. Once a hammy is pulled, the next one is even easier to pull, there is no reason to risk injury on a very low percentage play, in most circumstances.


My experience has been that as I get older things break and bruise a lot easier then when I was 18

One thing that comes up ocassionally in high school games is the play to first from right field. In the pros, has anyone ever seen a sharp grounder through the infield where the right fielder has charged to the ball to make a play at first?

With some of the lack of hustle, I was just wondering if this had ever been done. (And if it had, did the fielder get plunked by the pitcher in the next inning?)

Jeff Francouer for the Royals threw someone out either this year or last year that I recall.

Thought I heard a story this spring where Big Papi got thrown out at first in a spring training game by a minor league guy. As I recall the big league guys pulled him aside and said "No no" Course that could be my older brain playing tricks on me.

quote:

Originally posted by VaRHPmom:
One thing that comes up ocassionally in high school games is the play to first from right field. In the pros, has anyone ever seen a sharp grounder through the infield where the right fielder has charged to the ball to make a play at first?

With some of the lack of hustle, I was just wondering if this had ever been done. (And if it had, did the fielder get plunked by the pitcher in the next inning?)

Someone told me that Mark Kotsay was in RF for the Padres and threw out a runner trotting to 1st. It would not surprise me because he has a cannon for an arm.

If I were a MLB RF, I would try and throw EVERYONE out at first every chance I got. Teach those chumps to loaf on me.

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I'm with you coach...get an out any way you can. Isn't that what the defense is all about?

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AMEN! Wood4sale. Your pitcher would love you for it as well.

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And the first baseman had better be 'heads up'!

When a runner 'dogs' it to first base there is often a very good opportunity to throw him out. Why it isn't attempted is beyond me. Damaging the runner's pride...is that a good enough reason for not trying to throw him out? I don't think so.

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I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks right field should always be "in play". Might make the game a bit more interesting. (And move faster? Hmmm.)

quote:

Originally posted by coach.miller:
If I were a MLB RF, I would try and throw EVERYONE out at first every chance I got. Teach those chumps to loaf on me.

In my son's little league years, as a rightfielder, he pulled off the 9-3 putout a number of times.

He was always anticipating he may get a loafer or slow runner on those hits to RF.

In high school, he pulled it off once and nearly a second time had the firstbaseman had been alert. Since the firstbaseman wasn't prepared to make the play, he quickly backed off and played it straight up and get the ball back in. The time he pulled it off in HS, the firstbaseman played with my son on legion and all-star teams so he knew he was always looking over there for a possible 9-3. When he pulled it off in HS, I was histerical watching the opposing HC of the opposing go ballistic on the player for getting nailed on the 9-3 putout. That was priceless because you typically don't see that pulled off on the HS level.

Craig Biggio. I never saw him give less than 100 percent, and I watched him for a lot of years.

I read a stat once about how many points he added to his BA by hustling. It was statistically significant.

Juan Pierre runs hard on every ground ball.

I was watching the Dodgers last night. Their newly acquired 3B Hanley Ramirez hit a fly ball to center. He either thought it was a HR or a routine fly ball because he jogged to between first and second. The ball carries to the wall where the Dodgers CF butchered the play and the ball bounces off the wall away from the fielders. He winds up coasting into third. Probably could have been a inside the the park if he busted it from the beginning. He scored on a sac fly so no damage done but...

If a recent change of address and new coach isn't enough to change Hanley's habit of not hustling, nothing will. He's way too cool to hustle! I watched that game last night, and thought of this thread. We'll see if Mattingly can get a leopard to change it's spots. I don't see it, but maybe he'll fogure it out by his 4th organization.

fillsfan - great example with Juan Pierre. I don't know why, but he is one of those guys that I root for, and go out of my way to watch. He's not super talented but he seems to always make smart plays throughout his career. He's a hustler.

quote:

I was watching the Dodgers last night. Their newly acquired 3B Hanley Ramirez hit a fly ball to center. He either thought it was a HR or a routine fly ball because he jogged to between first and second. The ball carries to the wall where the Dodgers CF butchered the play and the ball bounces off the wall away from the fielders. He winds up coasting into third. Probably could have been a inside the the park if he busted it from the beginning. He scored on a sac fly so no damage done but...

As a Marlin's fan I can't tell you how happy I am to see him gone.

It's not just the jogging to first that bugs me, it's also the 30 seconds he spends in the box trying to decide if it's a ball he should bother hustling on or not.

I won't even bother to get into having to miss games because it's too **** inconvenient to take antibiotics - for an injury that you caused to yourself to begin with.

I think the only way Mattingly will get him to hustle is if he follows him around the basepaths and kicks Hanley in the butt when he slows down.

There are two things going on here. One is the paying fan's right to see a profressional ball player give their best effort. We all understand that and so some players gain a reputation for being lazy.

Then, there is the professional player's perspective. They play 162 games and there are times when, for whatever reason, they have to pick and choose when they are going to give maximum effort. For many teams, they have a core set of players that they simply can not lose if they get injured such as pulling a hamstring. Also, physically, sometimes they are just plain worn out. I'll give one example, Yadi Molina hit a ground ball to the SS the other night and didn't run full speed. While one or two fans didn't like it, most understood. In fact, the radio broadcast team discussed it. Yadi had caught 7 games in a row when our temperatures here in St. Louis were over 103. Then, after his day off, he caught another string of days were the temperatures were 99 or better. On this particular day, the temperature at starting time was 107. Personally, I'm not going to get mad at Yadi if he doesn't sprint as hard as he can on a routine ball to SS. I want him around for the entire season.

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:
There are two things going on here. One is the paying fan's right to see a profressional ball player give their best effort. We all understand that and so some players gain a reputation for being lazy.

Then, there is the professional player's perspective. They play 162 games and there are times when, for whatever reason, they have to pick and choose when they are going to give maximum effort. For many teams, they have a core set of players that they simply can not lose if they get injured such as pulling a hamstring. Also, physically, sometimes they are just plain worn out. I'll give one example, Yadi Molina hit a ground ball to the SS the other night and didn't run full speed. While one or two fans didn't like it, most understood. In fact, the radio broadcast team discussed it. Yadi had caught 7 games in a row when our temperatures here in St. Louis were over 103. Then, after his day off, he caught another string of days were the temperatures were 99 or better. On this particular day, the temperature at starting time was 107. Personally, I'm not going to get mad at Yadi if he doesn't sprint as hard as he can on a routine ball to SS. I want him around for the entire season.

No personal offense, but to me, that is just making excuses.
The players of old did not see themselves as to important to risk injury just by hustling. Winning was just as important to them, and some like Ty Cobb were not beyond intentionally hurting a player who got in his way. Do you think he or others back in the day would dog it for fear of possibly injuring themselves? Heck their teammates would be all over them, and if it kept up like with a Hanley Ramirez type of player, he would be receiving a blanket party.

The bottom line is that while it might make sense to rest a player so as to not exacerbate an existing injury, making excuses for them not running hard or hustling will never be acceptable.

Vector, and you are welcomed to yell at them as much as you want.

Personally, I'll hold my judgement, root for my team and hope that they are healthy and ready for the post season. Often, imo, people sit in the stands and boast about what they would do and how they would play ... and yet, they don't even get out and walk around the block when the temperature gets above 90. A part of being a fan is finding a team comprised of players that you support but also that might anger you at times.

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:
Vector, and you are welcomed to yell at them as much as you want.

Personally, I'll hold my judgement, root for my team and hope that they are healthy and ready for the post season. Often, imo, people sit in the stands and boast about what they would do and how they would play ... and yet, they don't even get out and walk around the block when the temperature gets above 90. A part of being a fan is finding a team comprised of players that you support but also that might anger you at times.

I am not sure if you meant to imply that I might be one of those type of people, but rest assured I am not. I was brought up to hustle, coached to hustle, raised my son to hustle, and coach kids/adults to hustle. However even if I were the type to not practice what I preach, that does not mean it is ok for multi-million dollar athletes to be excused for not giving their best effort.

Frankly, I am tired of the excuses people are willing to make about the pros who act like they are bigger than the game. For example who would have ever thought it would be understandable by some apologists that pros would charge fans money for their autographs.

All to often people are jaded or apathetic when they see people not working hard in ordinary professions. So it therefore stands to reason that regular Joe's are justifiably upset when millionaire athletes who get paid to play a game do not give their best effort.

The reason millionaire athletes don't hustle is because all their life they've been spoiled all their lives by their parents and coaches and have been told all their life how great they are. All the ones who hustle have one thing in common....They all learned at an early age because they were taught so. All these reasons for not hustling all the time is nothing more than a lame excuse. This is what the athletes who don't hustle learn and they take it on the field.

vector didn't mean to imply anything toward you. The statement you bolded was in a different paragraph.

quote:

Originally posted by coach.miller:
If I were a MLB RF, I would try and throw EVERYONE out at first every chance I got. Teach those chumps to loaf on me.

Its funny but on my son's select team there is a kid that has a good bat but is slow, I mean SLOWWWWWWWWWWW. Nice kid, hustles but if he hits something to the right side it had better one hop the wall or he risks being thrown out at first.

He has been thrown out at first by the right fielder three times. Every time it happens there is a chorus of parents screaming 'Bush League' after the play. Personally I find it humorous. It is part of the game and I always tell me kid to run hard down the line so there is never a reason to worry about it.

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Bush league? That's what they thought? I'll bet they wouldn't consider it cheating to outfit molasses boy with this speed generator...





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quote:

Originally posted by Wklink:

quote:

Originally posted by coach.miller:
If I were a MLB RF, I would try and throw EVERYONE out at first every chance I got. Teach those chumps to loaf on me.

Its funny but on my son's select team there is a kid that has a good bat but is slow, I mean SLOWWWWWWWWWWW. Nice kid, hustleIs but if he hits something to the right side it had better one hop the wall or he risks being thrown out at first.

He has been thrown out at first by the right fielder three times. Every time it happens there is a chorus of parents screaming 'Bush League' after the play. Personally I find it humorous. It is part of the game and I always tell me kid to run hard down the line so there is never a reason to worry about it.

Yea. The bush league stuff is a bit much. I think you would see more of these 9-3 plays before you get to the HS level because a kid who gets timed with s sun dial won't make the HS team unless the school is s small school and struggle just to field a varsity team. As long as they're hustling, it's a good thing. 9-3 putouts are as much a part of the game as a 6-3 putout. Problem is those peeps really don't understand the game and assume an uncaught ball on a fly to the OF is an automatic hit.

@ Woody.....what the hell is that!

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That my friend is a well maintained and immaculate Jet Pack®.

Our high school used to try and time the guys using a sundial but we never had an extension cord long enough to reach the building. We gave up and just used a modified Doppler Effect, but that only worked on moderately rainy days. And we gave up on that too because the National Weather Service was always so dang slow getting results back to us. Now we pretty much just flip a coin and hope for the best.



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I understand the position that CoachB has taken.

No doubt there are players that don't hustle, but the majority of them do. When we see a player not hustling we jump to the conclusion that they are lazy and spoiled (as per zomby above).

I don't see it that way, these guys get paid lots of money to play, expected to stay in the game and remain healthy. Some guys have injuries that we don't know about because they keep themselves in the game and because the organization doesn't want others to know about. Position players are not expected to take the DL unless they have some serious injury. I think that at times they avoid situations because of the long season and high expectations placed upon them. You can only expect so much hustle from a guy with bad knees, sore hamstring, etc.

JMO.

While I can understand a banged up player not appearing to hustle, those players are known to hustle and when they don't, you usually know that they're banged up and their legs aren't letting them do what they're supposed to do. This is more about the player who has constant lapses whether he's hurt or not. While you may not agree with me TPM on my assessment about loafing players, I seen it firsthand and I saw a few of these kids who weren't hustlers and kept the same attitude, then when they went to try out for the HS team, they got cut. Bottom line is if they're taught good work ethics as kids, they'll carry it into their adult lives. I do agree however that the majority of players do hustle.

I remember my son once told me he laid out for a flyball in a scrimmage game, made the catch in RF and the centerfielder mocked him for laying out in a scrimmage game. My son told him he's practicing for a real game situation and he should focus on his job in CF. And this was a team captain who made this brilliant remark. I taught my son at a young age to not be a prima donna and he played the game hard and the right way and he straightened out the team captain on his brilliant words of wisdom very quickly and went back to his position.