One more size question

In my view, its still very early.  Your son hasn't thrown a pitch as a junior in HS.

 

Ok, ok...he's not the 6 ft. 4 in. 90+ guy.  So what?  There's gonna be a place for him if he's good enough and it seems to me the coaches are hinting strongly that he probably is.  There's a 6 ft. 3 in. 2015 LHP hitting 89 in our area who just got the offer he was looking for.  Thats where things are at now...those types of guys.

 

Again...its still early.  It will work out.

 

Keep helping him get exposure and do your best to help him to focus on doing well in school and having a GREAT HS junior season and summer.

They just want to see how he develops.  Growth yes but more so how he advances as a pitcher.  don't overthink it he has plenty of time.

That coach is nuts. 

 

Next time some "coach" tells your son about height have him hold his thumb and forefinger 1" apart and say "you mean we are disputing this much?"

Would love to see this kid get picked up from a team that plays this school. If coaches r on fence they should ask themselves, "Do I want this kid on my team or play against him?"  If you think your guys can hit him then don't take him. If you would be better off as a team w him, then think about giving him the opportunity.

guess he would have passed on Tim Lincecum. He wasn't  hitting high numbers until college. He's 5' 11"

The coach is not nuts.  He is more or less telling you all at this time in a very nice way that that your son doesn't have what they are looking for at this time.
Its way to early anyway.
Try to control what you can and that would be work on skills and at getting stronger playing against good competition.

Don't listen to TPM, how would she know what a coach is thinking? I have a 2014 RHP who just reaches 6 ft. He sounds similar to your son and he got to choose between several offers.(decided on a Pac-12 school) If your son is 90+ with a second pitch he'll have many, many choices. And yes, there were a few who told my son he wasn't what they were locking for. Coaches don't sugarcoat their feelings, which is good for all.

No one has to listen to anything. 
The OP wants to know what tbey are looking for.  She mentioned a good D1 who saw him play once. Also mentioned not the first coach to say that.
Does appear to me that they were not interested or ready to make an offer
at this time.  
The phrases not big enough or you don't throw hard enough means maybe its not the right program.   He is a 2015 and has plenty of time. That was all that I was referring to.  The coach has his preferences obviously.
Move on.

Good observations, I think.

 

PS: Hope you don't move on. Keep posting!

You are right again Green LIght!  Especially the "Don't listen to TPM" part.

 

I mean seriously...why in the world would anyone wanna listen to a mother (is that the issue?) of a player who has nearly seen it all including being told he's not good enough.  No way would I wanna listen to someone with that experience.  

 

So lets go back and see what she said that elicited that comment:

 

"The coach is not nuts."  Correct!  Unless you're gonna call half the other coaches "nuts" too.  Many feel the way this one expressed.  As a parent of a 5-11 Pac12 pitcher myself, I know this quite well.

 

"He is more or less telling you all at this time in a very nice way that that your son doesn't have what they are looking for at this time."  Correct again!  He gave a compliment but also signaled that other options may be better for this player.  I have no problem with this.  We heard it a lot with our younger son too.  No prob...information is gold.

"Its way to early anyway."  Its certainly early.  Except for the handful of very elite players...who could wait anyways...it is indeed early.

"Try to control what you can and that would be work on skills and at getting stronger playing against good competition."  Is there really someone who doesn't wanna listen to this?

 

So what is it about the above comments that warrant, "Don't listen to TPM?"  Very confusing.  Even more confusing that someone who purports to have the experience you do Green Light that you'd endorse it.  

 

I meant move on to another program.
For goodness sakes if they want you then YOU WIL KNOW IT.
GL your comment was uncalled for.

Should have deleted the "don't listen" part from the quote.Then it would be this:

 

I have a 2014 RHP who just reaches 6 ft. He sounds similar to your son and he got to choose between several offers.(decided on a Pac-12 school) If your son is 90+ with a second pitch he'll have many, many choices. And yes, there were a few who told my son he wasn't what they were locking for. Coaches don't sugarcoat their feelings, which is good for all.

 

I'm standing by all my comments on the substance of the post. I think im647f makes good points (about the issue). Hope im keeps posting

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and to decide whom they listen to. (I know, that statement is a yawner) Thanks for spotting my quotation oversight and pointing that out to the Board in your, must say, quite detailed exposition.

 

EDIT: What experience do I purport to have that you are referring to? Never talk about myself or my kids. Oh yeah, once I said I was unemployed.

 

OK I will say it.  The people who think height isn't important are always the parents of short players.  Guys look at MLB pitching rosters, they are huge.  Yes there are always exceptions.  the exception is the shorter you are the harder you have to throw.  How many 5-11 87mph guys are in the MLB?  5-11 96MPH is a different story.  Bottom line you will not find a top level D1 taking a chance on a 5-11 87mph 2015.  When/if he throws 90-91 they will be interested.  By the way I was a D1 pitcher throwing 93/94 at 5-10.  I threw harder than anyone in my state but got my scholarship two weeks before school started while all the 6-4 89/90 guys had already signed.  

Wow, I really didn't mean to start anything.  I was just interested as to what they were waiting to see from him. Not just this program but others that have said the same thing.  I was especially curious because this was unsolicited info given to my son. He did not ask anything of them, they grabbed him on the way out of the camp.  I would think if they were not interested in him at all they would have just let him leave without saying anything like everyone else. ( This morning he received an email from the asst coach/recruiting coordinator saying to keep them informed of his schedule come spring, and in the meantime if he could have his most recent transcripts sent over) So I have to think there is something there.  I do have to say I said this was a good D1, not a top D1, so I'm sorry if that came across wrong.  I know it is early and neither he, nor I was looking for, or expecting an offer anytime soon.  He just wanted to attend camps of schools that he was interested to see if he liked the school, and if he could get on someones radar.  Height absolutely does matter, we always knew that.  The height issue with him is a big motivator though.  He works like he has something to prove, and he does. I have no illusions, I have no idea where he will end up, I was just trying to gain some insight into what they would look for in an undersized pitcher. Like I said if they are waiting to see if he will grow, not likely. I'm 5'1" Dad is 5'8". He's already beaten the odds.

Have him stand on his toes and measure his height and then list him as 6'-1" 

throw'n bbs

 

Not to nitpick, but IMO it is the parents of the smaller kids that seem to over think the height issue.  

 

Truth is this is not like a 145 lb kid who wants to be an offensive lineman in the NFL.  No argument about size when it comes to that.  Size is not only an advantage, it is mandatory!

 

We are talking about baseball, in this case pitchers.  Yes size can be an advantage, but there are and have been way too many 6'0 and under pitchers who have been as good as any 6'4 pitcher. Simply check the rosters.  

 

I understand the size thing, we talk about it all the time. However sometimes in these discussions it sounds like the 6'4 guys don't even have to have any talent. No matter how tall someone is, they will not reach the top unless they possess a very uncommon skill level.  Those that have what it takes come in all sizes.  It just so happens that height can be an advantage if you have a lot of TALENT.  In basketball, height is an advantage.  Yet the NBA has point guards of different sizes.  Is the best always the tallest point guard? 

 

My suggestion for those overly concerned with height... Spend your time getting as good as you possibly can and be one of he exceptions.  And remember that everyone, no matter what size, that makes it to the top... IS AN EXCEPTION!

Ha Ha funny.  I offered to buy him lifts for his shoes. lol

baseballmom,

 

Sounds like your son is very talented.  Nothing I said above was directed at you.  If your son continues to improve, things will work out fine.  I can give you a list of 100 pitchers under 6'0 that were recruited by high level DI colleges or drafted by MLB clubs. They might prefer height, but they don't ignore talent.

Pg Staff.  No offense taken. I agree with everything you said, and always have told my son don't use height as an excuse. Go out, work hard, do well, and someone will take notice.  Everyone else seems to make height an issue though.. at first.  This past summer, my son was originally left off the top team in his age group, strictly because of height.  They took 2 other pitchers, giants really, lol that were not better just taller.  After a few weeks of games, they came and asked him to fill in.  He did very well for them, stayed with the team and wound up being the coaches go to pitcher in bad situations, and then ended up getting starts for big games.  A little adversity never killed anyone right? I think it has pushed him to work harder and be better.

Baseballmom,
My post was not meant to mean that your son was not talented. 

 

The recruiting process is a very difficult one.   Most people really understand it when t is all over and if you are fortunate to have one of more go through it, it does get easier.

 

FWIW my son threw hard and was tall in HS and made a lot of those top prospect lists.  This however didn't mean that he was on everyone's A list, in fact he was off most more than he was on.  We learned through the process what all of the lingo meant and funny thing is they still say the same things. This is a business, and coaches have to be careful what they say and how they say it. 

IMO your son is too young for you to worry about it. He has time to improve upon the things that need improving, things he can control.

One more thing I advise you on, I know it is very hard but keep in mind that each situation is different, there is a lot to consider, size, height, grades, economics. Do not compare your son to others, because if you do you will eat your heart out.

He should be seeking out opportunities that are appropriate for him, not for someone else.

 

GL,

My response to the topic was not out of line.  Here is a suggestion, why not contribute rather than cut me down, I have not seen anything useful you have contributed and again you and the other guy and your comments were totally out of line.

 

 

To help TPM out a bit here, I think she is making a point about human nature that might be valid in this case.  It is possible that even though the player has the velocity, the athleticism, and the command that qualifies him for this level of play, he may, in the coaches mind, be missing some other factors that are more difficult to describe.  Perhaps he didn't like the kids attitude or maturity and this makes it difficult to recruit him at this time.  Sometimes coaches find it easier to say "he's too short" in order to cut off the conversation. "Can't argue with that one - the parent can't try to tell me he's not short" and the parent walks away.  Either way it doesn't matter....because the coach is not going to recruit the player at this time.  Thus, maybe the parent should move on to another program.  I think thats all she's trying to say.  Pretty innocuous.

 

I remember a player on my son's HS team.  He had the most talent I had seen on a HS field. Tiny little switch hitter who broke the state record for high school career hits.  Amazing speed.  But, the kid was a brat.  The parents were worse.  Terrible reputations in the baseball community.  Crazy people.  A lot of coaches told that kid he was too short.

TPM,

 

I was not offended by anything you said.  Listen we are very new at this, which is why I am posting on a message board seeking advice from people more in the know than I am.  Quite honestly, until 2 years ago we didn't (well I didn't) think that college ball at any level was a possibility.  My son is the driving force in this, but it is my hope that I can help him by gaining more information for him.  I am helping him look for schools that are good for him based on his major, cost, etc.  That I am good at, the baseball end of it I am not.

That I could understand. If you are asking a coach and he is trying to be sensitive and say he is to short as an escape, I get it. That is not what has happened in these 2 cases. Coaches came to him, unsolicited.  I was not involved in either conversation. I really do my best to stay out of it, all of it, until I am asked.

I never said your response was out of line. I think you are confused. You said my comments were out of line.

 

Thank you for your suggestion about how to post, which I think comes off as condescending. My contribution to the thread is that I would like to express concurrence with the observations of poster im647f when he said:

 

I have a 2014 RHP who just reaches 6 ft. He sounds similar to your son and he got to choose between several offers.(decided on a Pac-12 school) If your son is 90+ with a second pitch he'll have many, many choices. And yes, there were a few who told my son he wasn't what they were locking for. Coaches don't sugarcoat their feelings, which is good for all.

 

Happy to discuss the merits, or lack thereof, of those comments.

 

 

Baseballmom,

Many players get attention that is initiated by the coach, in fact I change that to probably every player.

What you have to do is try to understand that this is often the way the business is, and the way I gather according to what you posted,  the coaches are interested but not enough to make an offer.

 

But that is ok because your son has time on his side.

 

Have you had an evaluation on him, perhaps a PG showcase?  This best will give you an idea of where he should concentrate, of course with degree in mind as well.

 

Whatever he does, never a give an answer to the coach that was suggested in this topic.

I never told this guy to move on.

Why would you encourage someone not to listen to what I have to say?

Perhaps you took some of this out of context, but I see that you were one of the first to jump on the get on TPM's case band wagon.

 

I did not encourage someone not to listen to what you have to say.

 

This is what I did say. It is just a few posts back:

 

"Should have deleted the "don't listen" part from the quote.Then it would be this:

 

I have a 2014 RHP who just reaches 6 ft. He sounds similar to your son and he got to choose between several offers.(decided on a Pac-12 school) If your son is 90+ with a second pitch he'll have many, many choices. And yes, there were a few who told my son he wasn't what they were locking for. Coaches don't sugarcoat their feelings, which is good for all.

 

I'm standing by all my comments on the substance of the post. I think im647f makes good points (about the issue). Hope im keeps posting

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and to decide whom they listen to. (I know, that statement is a yawner) Thanks for spotting my quotation oversight and pointing that out to the Board in your, must say, quite detailed exposition."

 

We can talk about the substance of the comments I quoted, and my concurrence with them......or you can continue to complain about me.

Although TPM and I have had our own disagreements I see nothing in her post that was not "spot on" and worthy of incorporating into a thoughtful recruiting plan. Sounded to me like that coach was looking for taller pitchers. Time to move on to the next prospective program and see if there is a better fit.

TPM provides excellent advice the vast majority of the time and knows her stuff. She has seen the good and weathered the bad.

My son is 5'11" as well.

That is absolutely correct.

But that's ok, if it were me someone would go complain and the entire topic would be deleted, but I guess it's ok for others to say what they wish without any backlash.

 

I appreciate the thought leftyshortstop.

The long and the short of it is that they say all kinds of stuff and it becomes confusing, because the reality is that they are much better at it than we are.

 

Personally I think that it would be in the recruits best interest to hear the truth, but as I am reminded sometimes people hear what they want to, or that they take what is said negatively or positively when they should have sat down and helped the recruit.

 

Some things to keep in mind, they have 100's of players to choose from and they only need to recruit a few each year. So you have to know what it is exactly what it is they are looking for.

 

Don't be afraid to ask.

Boy, I just love passive-aggressive posts...NOT!  

 

But back to baseballmomx4 - Your question was a good one.  You seem like you're able to take things in with a constructive attitude.  If my posts felt bothersome to you, it was completely unintentional on my part and I am sorry.  Sometimes my answers are typed in a hurry and perhaps not the best worded.  You're doin' fine.  We ALL want you to stick around. Please do.  

 

My only objection was to anyone who would argue, "Don't listen to <poster with tons of well-documented experiences>."  That doesn't mean I say "follow" that person's advice every time...but I sure as heck would "listen" (and consider their advice) if I were going through this for the first (or second) time.

 

Good luck!

I agree with you justbaseball, it was a good question and should have been given a more thoughtful answer than "the coach is nuts" and "don't listen to the advice" someone has given you.

 

Hope all is well with you FF.

 

 

My two cents would be that I really like the old timers who tell it like it is!  That is how we parents who are new to the process learn.  I know when I post a question, I am hoping for an honest answer given by somebody with more knowledge than I have.

Your posts certainly did not feel bothersome to me. I would not have asked the question if I did not want opinions.  Yours did make a lot of sense. It is early, he really just started with trying to get exposure.  He did some tournaments in the summer and fall, and this was the 2nd camp ever. He has had some schools call his school as a result. I was really just curious as to what this all meant. I am still confused as to why the coach would even bring this whole thing up to him. My son just shook his hand goodbye and never asked would I make it in your program or something of the like.  Seems odd to me.

I don't mean for this post to sound blunt or rude, but I have a feeling it might be. I apologize upfront if it does.

 

Height is something you have no control over. Why even think about it?

 

PG hit the nail on the head. Talent is ALWAYS most important. Be as talented as you can be and the rest will take care of itself. You can't get taller, but you can get better. 

Not blunt or rude.  Trust me, we do not obsess over height.  I am thrilled he's 5'11", shocked but thrilled. He never uses it as an excuse, and I think it pushes him to be better. I only asked the question because of what was said to him.  If they are wanting him to prove what he can do athletically great, he can work harder, get better,etc.  All the hard work in the world is not going to make him grow to 6'4" lol  Believe me I will NEVER post on this site anything related to height again.

Thanks TPM. I do appreciate the advice.  He did do a PG showcase the summer after freshman year, graded an 8, and made the top prospect list.  Unfortunately, I still do not know what that means even after the looking at the PG ratings chart.  Maybe they should make a pg rating chart for dummies. If you grade this look at d2, if you grade this take up golf, etc

I think that it is just a thing that gives one an idea where they stand among all of the other prospects they have seen in his class. But that should never limit anyone, but rather work on improving, even 10s can improve! I know players that have been rated 8 and now playing MLB.

I do  agree with JH, and I will state again, worry about the things you can control not what you can't and size is something that one can't control.

baseballmomx4 - A 5-11 RHP throwing 87 mph has a place in college baseball, especially if he has command of a good secondary pitch (curveball, change, etc...) and decent academics.  Very likely in D1 if he finds the right coach and program...and there are more than one of those such programs.

 

We had 2 sons go through this recruiting thing.  I'm still not sure I know what a PG score of "8" equals other than he's pretty good and he's got a shot at D1...again, right coach, right program.

 

I always thought coaches who said things like, "too small for us" or "not a D1 breaking pitch" were the most helpful.  The first one told me to probably not target that school and the second one told me something our son(s) could work on.  Feedback is good!  Whether its a college coach comment or a PG score.

 

Based on what you've told us, your son has a shot at some decent options.  Now, within your budget (don't break the bank!), try and plan the next 6-10 months.  Thats what we were doing at this point in time with both.

 

P.S. The "height anxiety" thing on here is much more related to other recent threads than your question.  You are doing just fine in how you're asking and how you're responding.  Keep asking all you want.  We want to tell you what we learned and help you process it into a plan for your own situation.  

Shorter guys who throw hard get more opportunities than taller guys who throw soft.

 

87 as a 2015 is promising. If he knows how to get guys out then he'll have an opportunity to play at the next level.