In 2003, pitchers, catchers, hitters, MiLB players, grandma's everyone was using 'something' to help them get through the day. Fair? No. Doesn't it taint what Bonds did any more than any other era? Not in my opinion.
Before you put the * before Bonds' name, consider this...
In Babe Ruth's time, MLB was for white American players only. No negro pitchers allowed (except in exhibitions, where they wiffed the all stars).
In Aaron's time, there were no Orientals and not many Latin players in the game (unitl later in his career). We also didn't have the expansion we have now, so the quality of the average pitching staff varied. Thus making his records harder to quantify.
I've heard Willy Mayes liked to consume a red liquid before games that was assumed to be laced with aphetomines (speed). And he wasn't the only one during that time.
During WWII, women played.
Are steroids right? No. Should we take records or titles away? No.
Every era in baseball had something unique. We continue to compare hitting records from the dead ball era with today, yet those were a select few white guys playing with a mush ball.
How is the steriod era any different from any of the other eras in baseball? After all, "Chicks dig tha long ball"...
Frankly, after the strike, we needed everyone to dig the long balls by McGuire and Sosa to regain the fan base. What did Babe Ruth swing? A 40", 38 oz bat? What did Yaz swing as late as the 80's? About the same. What does Pujolos swing? A 35", 33 oz bat?
None of this is fair, it just is. If you want to compare Ted Williams with David Ortiz or Manny Ramirez, you have to take into account the totality of the situation.
As a 13U player, I went to Ted Williams' baseball camp on one of the weeks when he actually was there. I got to talk to him one on one during that week. In the few brief minutes I spent with him, my impression was, if there was a pill to make him a better hitter, he'd have taken it. If there was a shot, he'd have gotten it. There wasn't, so he didn't.
All players today are tested, so the steriod uncertainty is going away. Those that used before and were named in the study have to deal with the consequences of their actions. Supposedly there were 100 positive tests from 2003. MLB should either name ALL the players or name NONE of the players. Only naming Yankees and Red Sox through the media isn't fair. No player should find out they tested positive 40 minutes before game time from a reporter.
MLB either needs to protect the list or issue the complete list.
Those that test positive now are on their own.
My two cents.
Its not the steroids that bother me its the way they act so shocked and deny it. Big papi doesn't know what he took...yeah right. I can remember in the past 5 years since i started lifting every supplement i have put in my body...he is just playing dumb and it ****es me off.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
You could be right, but it won't be with the Cardinals for that price.
FWIW, read somewhere that Albert not looking for that kind of money, already has a championship ring, and wants to stay in STL where he is raising his family and very involved in the community.
I am not sticking up for anyone, I was just posing a question and I agree, there is plenty of stuff out there that probably goes undetected. I would be disappointed the same way I am disappointed with those that have been caught.
Just think that anyone nowadays would be stupid to tarnish his career, seeong on how it has hurt others, especially former teammates.
But then agan, most fans don't care anymore, maybe the bb purists, and there are not many of those around anymore.
I hope he is clean but nothing else will shock me now. The players treat it all with a big shrug of the shoulders (see David Ortiz) as do most of the fans.
It seems testing has been effective with the power decreases in the past three or four years. We'll see if it holds.
I don't know if any of your saw the news item the other day regarding "muscle" building supplements that were taken off the market because they were supposedly laced with steroids but the labels didn't mention it.
Not saying that this is what has been happening but think about it--- there is no government control on the over the counter supplements so who knows what is really in these products---
Not saying that this is what has been happening but think about it--- there is no government control on the over the counter supplements so who knows what is really in these products---
Mabye this is something we can agree upon:
Why are these scumbag lawyers who are involved in the litigation between the feds (who siezed the list) and the Players Union, leaking information about who is on it?
That was supposed to be confidential, under the terms of the first test in 2003 that was agreed to by the MLBPA. Now the lawyers are leaking, and hiding behind the press who protects them as anonymous sources.
That's just lovely.
Why are these scumbag lawyers who are involved in the litigation between the feds (who siezed the list) and the Players Union, leaking information about who is on it?
That was supposed to be confidential, under the terms of the first test in 2003 that was agreed to by the MLBPA. Now the lawyers are leaking, and hiding behind the press who protects them as anonymous sources.
That's just lovely.
Can't remember who, but one player said he'd be surprised if he wasn't on the list. 
Someone correct me if wrong, but back then, the only testing was for high levels of testosterone? I think that is how it's still done now, then with a higher level they test further? And yes, some of those over the counter supps could have had substances that were questionable.
Is it Bud whose against releasing the names or the player's union?
I say release every name, move forward.
Someone correct me if wrong, but back then, the only testing was for high levels of testosterone? I think that is how it's still done now, then with a higher level they test further? And yes, some of those over the counter supps could have had substances that were questionable.
Is it Bud whose against releasing the names or the player's union?
I say release every name, move forward.
Steroid use or not, the home town crowds still cheered with standing ovations for Bonds and now for Ortiz. While the visitor crowds booed. It seems as long as the guy is playing on our team steroid use is okay. Is the illegal use of drugs that enhance a players abilities right or wrong? Which is it America? This is enough to confuse Aristotle!
Agreed TPM; please release all of the names.
This is like being slowing starved to death over a 6 month period.
Release the whole list, scream and holler about asterix for a few days then move the heck on!
This is like being slowing starved to death over a 6 month period.
Release the whole list, scream and holler about asterix for a few days then move the heck on!
Let's not forget what was occurring in baseball prior to the 'steroid era'. In Jim Bouton's book, Ball Four, he discusses the use of 'greenies' to enhance playing performance. 'Greenies' are just another slang term for amphetamines. He claimed teammates Mickey Mantle and Whitely Ford both used the 'greenies' while playing. I may add the illegal use of amphetamines (speed).
Bouton in an interview said if steroids were available in 1969 he and other players would have used the drug to enhance performance.
I'm not saying any of this is right, but it just demonstrates to me that some highly skilled athletes will do what they have to to become better and remain competitive in their environment.
Bouton in an interview said if steroids were available in 1969 he and other players would have used the drug to enhance performance.
I'm not saying any of this is right, but it just demonstrates to me that some highly skilled athletes will do what they have to to become better and remain competitive in their environment.
Well, some say you can divide the users between those who did it to beat records and those who did it to stay longer in the game.
There are fans who look the other way depending on each player, seems to me that Ortiz is a likeable guy, Bonds wasn't (in my opinion). Arod took abuse becasue he's just not liked even among his own fans. Double standard here, for who we should forgive and who we shouldn't.
Funny, probably more pitchers took steroids than position guys, yet very little discussion on that. Mostly those who came close or broke records are gonna get signaled out, that's why I say release the names. Let the public form their own opinions, if so be it.
There are fans who look the other way depending on each player, seems to me that Ortiz is a likeable guy, Bonds wasn't (in my opinion). Arod took abuse becasue he's just not liked even among his own fans. Double standard here, for who we should forgive and who we shouldn't.
Funny, probably more pitchers took steroids than position guys, yet very little discussion on that. Mostly those who came close or broke records are gonna get signaled out, that's why I say release the names. Let the public form their own opinions, if so be it.
quote:Originally posted by Rob Kremer:
Mabye this is something we can agree upon:
Why are these scumbag lawyers who are involved in the litigation between the feds (who siezed the list) and the Players Union, leaking information about who is on it?
That was supposed to be confidential, under the terms of the first test in 2003 that was agreed to by the MLBPA. Now the lawyers are leaking, and hiding behind the press who protects them as anonymous sources.
That's just lovely.
I agree that the leakers are scumbags. I don't know where they are coming from. It could be from mlb administraters themselves (e.g., someone from the commissioners office), someone from George Mitchell's staff, or somebody else having access to the list. To leak the information slowly, is most beneficial to the media. The gift that keeps on giving. It would not surprise me to find out that the leakers have been paid under the table in some form for the information.
It would also not surprise me to find out that the leaker is an anti-American. Baseball and this country are one and the same imho. You harm baseball and you do similar harm to the country. It was baseball that did more to improve race relations in this country than any other institution imho. When Sean Merriman of the Chargers was suspended for steroid use, the only concern seemed to be how they were going to replace his pass rushing ability. Where is the media outrage at the obvious steroid usage in the NFL? There is none because that is the most famous gladiator sport in the world today. No one cares as long as the gladiators can continue to play.
From a selfish standpioint, I hope they keep outting the steroid abusers. I don't want my son to have to compete against that. I wish they (the media) would knock off with the hypocrisy however.
CD,
My husband agrees with you on the ones leaking out stories is trying to destroy baseball.
I also find it interesting on whose name gets leaked out and who they play for, Arod the hated Yankees, and Ortiz the dreaded Red Sox. Bitter rivals. Is that a coincidance that someone is always going after players on those teams?
How about releasing the names of everyday Joe ML player on a last place MLB team who hasn't put up monster numbers or in contention for HOF?
I just don't get that. That is what bugs me.
My husband agrees with you on the ones leaking out stories is trying to destroy baseball.
I also find it interesting on whose name gets leaked out and who they play for, Arod the hated Yankees, and Ortiz the dreaded Red Sox. Bitter rivals. Is that a coincidance that someone is always going after players on those teams?
How about releasing the names of everyday Joe ML player on a last place MLB team who hasn't put up monster numbers or in contention for HOF?
I just don't get that. That is what bugs me.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
CD,
My husband agrees with you on the ones leaking out stories is trying to destroy baseball.
I also find it interesting on whose name gets leaked out and who they play for, Arod the hated Yankees, and Ortiz the dreaded Red Sox. Bitter rivals. Is that a coincidance that someone is always going after players on those teams?
How about releasing the names of everyday Joe ML player on a last place MLB team who hasn't put up monster numbers or in contention for HOF?
I just don't get that. That is what bugs me.
TPM - those are all good questions. The reason Joe Average's name is not released is because it does not sell media imho.
I think it is no accident that all the names are from the Yankees and Red Sox. I believe the leaks are coming from Mitchell's team if not Mitchell himself. He was on the board of the Red Sox. Now that A-Rod has been outed, I believe that somene else felt it was necessary to hit the Red Sox in kind. I believe there is a leaking war going on between factions involved with the Yankees and those involved with the Red Sox.
Yup,
I didn't think about that, big names sells media.
You are right, we got the old Sox vs.Yankees rivalry going on, not just on the playing field.
With that in mind, I truely feel badly for the players being signaled out for this reason. JMO.
I didn't think about that, big names sells media.
You are right, we got the old Sox vs.Yankees rivalry going on, not just on the playing field.
With that in mind, I truely feel badly for the players being signaled out for this reason. JMO.
quote:Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
Where is the media outrage at the obvious steroid usage in the NFL? There is none because that is the most famous gladiator sport in the world today. No one cares as long as the gladiators can continue to play.
From a selfish standpioint, I hope they keep outting the steroid abusers. I don't want my son to have to compete against that. I wish they (the media) would knock off with the hypocrisy however.
Mlb has allowed the this scab to be pertually ripped off due their fence sitting and pious attitude towards the game, with their inability to to grasp the simple fact that while baseball is steeped in tradtion it is not static and needs to evolve.
Stick an asterick on the known user's records and move on. HOF voters will handle the rest.
The question of why the NFL has skated on this issue is a good one. The NFL testing program is a JOKE. My son's defensive line coach played DE for the Cowboys, and he told me how they do it.
The NFL has regular testing dates, that are scheduled months in advance. The teams bring in medical experts to explain to the players when they have to stop in order to test clean.
He said that vast majority of NFL lineman do steroids. Saw it with his own eyes. His roomate once asked him to inject him (he declined.)
Personally I think it is ruining the NFL game. The players look like freaks.
The NFL has regular testing dates, that are scheduled months in advance. The teams bring in medical experts to explain to the players when they have to stop in order to test clean.
He said that vast majority of NFL lineman do steroids. Saw it with his own eyes. His roomate once asked him to inject him (he declined.)
Personally I think it is ruining the NFL game. The players look like freaks.
When Jose Canseco commented on the recent names (Manny and David) on ESPN, he said that a bombshell is going to come out soon and he's already in the HOF. Some people on the boards were speculating that it could be Rickey Henderson, I guess with it being Rickey just got accepted and everything. What do ya'll think of that?
Google Tom House and steroids. He was using/abusing peds along with others in the 60's-70's... If they were using peds 40 years ago by TH account. Then there's most certainly a a player in the HOF who has used
quote:Originally posted by dswann:
Google Tom House and steroids. He was using/abusing peds along with others in the 60's-70's... If they were using peds 40 years ago by TH account. Then there's most certainly a a player in the HOF who has used
I didn't realize it went that far back. Here is a link to the House article where he describes usage in the 60's:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports...steroids-house_x.htm
Perhaps what changed in the 90's was the technology. Both for the potency/effectiveness of the drugs involved and the ability to mask them. Remember the cream and the clear? The clear was aptly named because of its ability to avoid detection.
Why Henderson and not Rice?
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
Why Henderson and not Rice?
I really don't know why. The majority of the posters thought it "could" be Henderson.
quote:Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by dswann:
Google Tom House and steroids. He was using/abusing peds along with others in the 60's-70's... If they were using peds 40 years ago by TH account. Then there's most certainly a a player in the HOF who has used
I didn't realize it went that far back. Here is a link to the House article where he describes usage in the 60's:
It's really not a stretch to think if 6-7 pitchers were "experimenting". How many position players would be involved per team.
quote:Originally posted by Coach From The Southeast:quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
Why Henderson and not Rice?
I really don't know why. The majority of the posters thought it "could" be Henderson.
RH attibuted his success on the field to eating sea urchin roe and push-ups . Nothing more, nothing less
That article is right on. The issue is that these things weren't banned.
Some of your sons playing pro ball will have managers and coaches that have been in the game forever, and they have some stories to tell, mainly to try to educate the younger players of today on the dangers of steroid usage.
Don't kid yourself that players don't use stuff, they know once they get tested come spring training they have a window of opportunity for somethings.
Recent true story, about a milb player who is a recreational drug user, got cleaned up for 30-40 days off season and passed testing. Unfortunetly didn't stick, the brass found out, was released only to be picked up again by another team.
The big problem that it still remains a brotherhood, players don't rat on each other, one reason why they all hate Canseco.
Some of your sons playing pro ball will have managers and coaches that have been in the game forever, and they have some stories to tell, mainly to try to educate the younger players of today on the dangers of steroid usage.
Don't kid yourself that players don't use stuff, they know once they get tested come spring training they have a window of opportunity for somethings.
Recent true story, about a milb player who is a recreational drug user, got cleaned up for 30-40 days off season and passed testing. Unfortunetly didn't stick, the brass found out, was released only to be picked up again by another team.
The big problem that it still remains a brotherhood, players don't rat on each other, one reason why they all hate Canseco.
Yeah, but if it wasn't for Canseco, none of this would have never happened. Give Credit to Canseco for cleaning up the game and trying to sell his book at the same time. I'm glad Canseco said something.
Even if its unfair I think some reasons people think a Hall of Famer steroid user would be more likely to be R. Henderson than Rice are as follows:
1. Rickey played deep into his forties: Rice was done as a great player by 32-33.
2. There were constant remarks on TV about Rickey having an incredible body for a man in his 40's and you could see he was "cut" to the bone as we used to say in bodybuilding.
3. At the end Rickey gave the impression he would have done anything for one more season or one more game in the bigs.
4. Ricky was from a football backround and if you don't believe steroids are rampant in Pro football then your fooling yourself. Its the masking agents that are far ahead of the testing thats why we have 6'6" 320 pounders running 4.5's. Rickey was a highly-sought running back.
5. Rickey had some power for a "little guy" while Rice was a big man and was a power hitter from the getgo.
None of this proves anything however so its all speculation unless Rickey's name comes out from 2003. These are just some of the reasons people might suspect Rickey as a user. That's why I wish they would release the 2003 names already so everyone can make up their own minds about what to do regarding the Hall.
1. Rickey played deep into his forties: Rice was done as a great player by 32-33.
2. There were constant remarks on TV about Rickey having an incredible body for a man in his 40's and you could see he was "cut" to the bone as we used to say in bodybuilding.
3. At the end Rickey gave the impression he would have done anything for one more season or one more game in the bigs.
4. Ricky was from a football backround and if you don't believe steroids are rampant in Pro football then your fooling yourself. Its the masking agents that are far ahead of the testing thats why we have 6'6" 320 pounders running 4.5's. Rickey was a highly-sought running back.
5. Rickey had some power for a "little guy" while Rice was a big man and was a power hitter from the getgo.
None of this proves anything however so its all speculation unless Rickey's name comes out from 2003. These are just some of the reasons people might suspect Rickey as a user. That's why I wish they would release the 2003 names already so everyone can make up their own minds about what to do regarding the Hall.
None of the names should be released. None should have been released to this point. The players whose names have been leaked should pursue the leaking of names legally and sue whomever is responsible. The player's union agreed to confidential testing to examine the scope of the problem.quote:Originally posted by itsrosy:
It's time to release all the remaining names on the list. This leaking of 1 or 2 names at a time is ridiculous. Let's just get it over with.
If Selig had any balls at the next CBA negotiating session he should demand mandatory testing with a year suspension for the first offense and a lifetime ban for the second offense. This could be preceeded with a one year grace period for everyone to get clean.
But on the other hand, are fans really turned off versus the level of entertainment? Are fans staying away? Are they turning off their televisions? Have they stopped buying souvenirs? Don't look at this from the purist standpoint. Look at it from were the money comes from. Always follow the money trail. Baseball is big business.
There was a good article in the Boston Globe regarding whether 2004 and 2007 are tainted. The era is tainted. Our cheaters are better than your cheaters.
quote:None of the names should be released. None should have been released to this point. The players whose names have been leaked should pursue the leaking of names legally and sue whomever is responsible.
While I agree with you, good luck getting it to happen. Those sources are "not named" because they aren't ALLOWED to give that information. We see how well that works out. It would be quite a big lawsuit and I just don't see it happening.
The "leaking of names" is not going to stop until the public says enough and quits believing the "sources" that this information supposedly comes from.
Where the heck is the players union in this entire fiasco ???
Why are they sitting back? If I were the players I would be screaming about how the union is handling all this
Why are they sitting back? If I were the players I would be screaming about how the union is handling all this
Tom House never got over 82 mph! That would probably be 85 to 86 on today's guns. On what gun? Those who can't do teach? 
I know that HS football players were using steroids in the early 70s so it should be no surprise that MLB steroid use preceded that.
I know that HS football players were using steroids in the early 70s so it should be no surprise that MLB steroid use preceded that.
I like the slow leaking of names. It keeps the steriod/PED problem in the news. If all the names where to be let out, then we would have a week or 2 of steroid hysteria and then by next month all will be forgotten. And once its swept under the rug, no one will care if baseball is doing PEDs. I believe many of the poster on this forum have children in baseball and want their kids to make into college baseball, or get lucky have have there kids in the minor league, or win the lottery and make the MLB. But in the mean time, parents are putting time and effort into their child and Im sure not one of you will say I hope my kid does PEDs. Well,... if we dont kill PEDs, there is a increasing chance that your kids will use it, or not make the team because another team mate used it. .. So I hope this is a slow and long leak. And if you truely wand PED out of baseball, for the sake of the youths, or for the respect and honor of the game, stand by and grind it out and support the stop of PED by keeping it in the news.
The Players Union has been part of the problem. It went to great lengths to protect the players from penalties for the use of PED's through the years, and ownership, raking in the dough, didn't much care. Both players and owners ignored a situation that both sides knew existed.
Now the players find themselves in the awkward position of knowing there is proof out there of their PED use, their quotes of personal wholesomeness are on tape at ESPN headquarters (Hello Big Poppi and A-Roid), and the Union that stonewalled for years has no credibility in the eyes of the public so it won't be much of a voice for them.
The holy Players Union could have set up the testing so that the results were truly anonymous, but for whatever reason did not do so. Samples didn't have to be linked to individual players as they weren't looking for a chain of custody suitable for a courtroom, they were testing to see if there was a problem. Yep, there's a problem.
I have no sympathy for any player that turns out to be "on the list" that has lied about their own usage. They've all had the chance to come clean, but they remain silent, hopeful they won't be discovered and hopeful the skeletons will stay in the closet. Or, a la Manny, they couldn't care less.
Now the players find themselves in the awkward position of knowing there is proof out there of their PED use, their quotes of personal wholesomeness are on tape at ESPN headquarters (Hello Big Poppi and A-Roid), and the Union that stonewalled for years has no credibility in the eyes of the public so it won't be much of a voice for them.
The holy Players Union could have set up the testing so that the results were truly anonymous, but for whatever reason did not do so. Samples didn't have to be linked to individual players as they weren't looking for a chain of custody suitable for a courtroom, they were testing to see if there was a problem. Yep, there's a problem.
I have no sympathy for any player that turns out to be "on the list" that has lied about their own usage. They've all had the chance to come clean, but they remain silent, hopeful they won't be discovered and hopeful the skeletons will stay in the closet. Or, a la Manny, they couldn't care less.
quote:
There was a good article in the Boston Globe regarding whether 2004 and 2007 are tainted. The era is tainted. Our cheaters are better than your cheaters.
In regards to the Boston Globe article about 2004 07'; that article is "TAINTED".
Dan Shaughnessy made his career writing and reminding everyone of "The Curse of the Bambino" Some even believe he coined the phrase (in the least he brought it to the forefront" When Boston won the World Series, he was no longer relevant.
In writing this article calling those WS "tainted" Shaughnessy thinks he has his "Moby Dick".
Here's another article, A fine life without fine print from Bruce Jenkins at the SF Chronicle.
quote:Originally posted by LAball:
So I hope this is a slow and long leak. And if you truely wand PED out of baseball, for the sake of the youths, or for the respect and honor of the game, stand by and grind it out and support the stop of PED by keeping it in the news.
I disagree, it's not being leaked out for the RIGHT reasons, it's to pit one team against another.
I feel sorry for Ortiz, what's happened to him has affected his game, and his team, that is NOT fair, either give us the entire list or stop playing games.
It's YOUR job as a parent to make your young children away of the dangers (not the embarrassment) of PED usage, that doesn't come from leaking names.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
I feel sorry for Ortiz, what's happened to him has affected his game, and his team, that is NOT fair, either give us the entire list or stop playing games.
You want to know what's not fair, it's Ortiz cheating, just like the other 102 players on the list. I like how Weiner put his spin on it today though. An if you believe Big Floppy didn't know what he was taking back in 2003, then I guess Jeremy Mayfield is completely drug-free, too. He needs to be a man and own up to it. I'm just waiting for him to sit out a year by what he has said that that should happen if anybody gets caught. He's a joke just like the rest of them. Let's bring out the next set of names please.
I didn't give an opinion about his cheating, that's a whole different issue, what I implied was that it was not fair to leak out a few names, give us everyone.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
I didn't give an opinion about his cheating, that's a whole different issue, what I implied was that it was not fair to leak out a few names, give us everyone.
My bad TPM, I read it the wrong way. I agree, either release the whole list or find out which lawyer is leaking the names out.
I still don't feel sorry for any of them that's on the list and their names got leaked out. They shouldn't have done what they done to get ON TO the list in the first place.
i may be naive but i don't find it hard to believe he didn't know what he, (or any one else) was taking. unless he was actually shooting a steroid, there are quite a few things you can buy over the counter that will fail a test.
this is part of an e-mail son just recieved.
---------------------------------------------------
The FDA has recently issued a Public Health Advisory warning to consumers that certain supplements distributed by American Cellular Laboratories Inc. contain synthetic steroid substances. Those supplements are:
TREN-Xtreme HMG Xtreme
MASS Xtreme MMA-3 Xtreme
ESTRO Xtreme VNS-9 Xtreme
AS-89-Xtreme TT-40-Xtreme
DO NOT USE THESE SUPPLEMENTS or any other supplement labeled with code words like “ANABOLIC,” “TREN,” “BLOCKS ESTROGEN,” or “MINIMIZES GYNO”! Any supplement that contains synthetic steroid substances can cause you to test positive. If you have used any of these supplements please call me at ####
Please remember that buying supplements at a US-based retailer is not a guarantee that you will test negative under our Drug Program. There are several supplements for sale at stores in the US which contain banned substances and could result in a positive test.
this is part of an e-mail son just recieved.
---------------------------------------------------
The FDA has recently issued a Public Health Advisory warning to consumers that certain supplements distributed by American Cellular Laboratories Inc. contain synthetic steroid substances. Those supplements are:
TREN-Xtreme HMG Xtreme
MASS Xtreme MMA-3 Xtreme
ESTRO Xtreme VNS-9 Xtreme
AS-89-Xtreme TT-40-Xtreme
DO NOT USE THESE SUPPLEMENTS or any other supplement labeled with code words like “ANABOLIC,” “TREN,” “BLOCKS ESTROGEN,” or “MINIMIZES GYNO”! Any supplement that contains synthetic steroid substances can cause you to test positive. If you have used any of these supplements please call me at ####
Please remember that buying supplements at a US-based retailer is not a guarantee that you will test negative under our Drug Program. There are several supplements for sale at stores in the US which contain banned substances and could result in a positive test.
20dad
Now that really makes things interesting doesn't it !!!!
Now that really makes things interesting doesn't it !!!!