It's obvious Big Floppy used PED's. Look how his stats fluctuate so dramatically throughout his career. What gets me is the constant b.s. that Ortiz and a couple others spew out about how they were just taking vitamins and supplements and just took whatever companies sent them...without really checking what was in that stuff. I don't think Ortiz is dumb. Only a completely dumb athlete and there are more than a few out there, would "just take" something that was sent to them and not do research as to what they put in bodies...An athletes body is their temple - their way to make millions and mega millions. The wouldn't knowingly put substances in their body that they knew would harm themselves. The "I didn't know" argument is just very shallow in my opinion.
If an athlete's body is his temple why are so many former baseball players recovering alcoholics? Didn't they realize that large consumption of alcohol could kill them someday.
PED use is not limited to the game of baseball. It's just been that their testing for them has s*cked.
If you are shooting some substance in your butt in the bathroom you know you are cheating, taking a supplement you bought on a store shelf is not being dumb, just trustful.
Many players took what was given or recommended to them, mostly by their trainers who also had no clue what they were recommending.
MLB didn't have the tools or the resources they have now, as 20dad has posted, players are informed on a regular basis what to take and not to take, I doubt they did that back in 2000, or 2001, etc.
I am not sticking up for anyone, just saying it's a mess, and at this point more concerned with leaks from a federal grand jury than who did or didn't use steroids in 2003.
PED use is not limited to the game of baseball. It's just been that their testing for them has s*cked.
If you are shooting some substance in your butt in the bathroom you know you are cheating, taking a supplement you bought on a store shelf is not being dumb, just trustful.
Many players took what was given or recommended to them, mostly by their trainers who also had no clue what they were recommending.
MLB didn't have the tools or the resources they have now, as 20dad has posted, players are informed on a regular basis what to take and not to take, I doubt they did that back in 2000, or 2001, etc.
I am not sticking up for anyone, just saying it's a mess, and at this point more concerned with leaks from a federal grand jury than who did or didn't use steroids in 2003.
Drinking alcohol on your own time and taking a drug that enhances your performance at work is different. Players knew that alcohol would hamper their ability to perform in life everyday. Just like players would have to know that some of these supplements had dirty ingredients in them. An if they didn't, well, I guess that's their bad. If the trainers that gave it to them didn't know, well, I guess it's still their bad. It doesn't take a bright individual to check the ingredient label on a bottle to check if a dirty substance is in it. You can believe it if you want, but by the looks on other message boards throughout the country, I'd have to say a big majority of the fans don't believe a word that these players are saying.
The difference between Hamilton and Big Floppy is that Hamilton admits his wrong doing. Big Floppy is just a lying cheater.
The difference between Hamilton and Big Floppy is that Hamilton admits his wrong doing. Big Floppy is just a lying cheater.
i agree that hamilton and ortiz situations are totally different.
hamilton will have a life long struggle to quell his demons. some day's chicken, some day's feathers. having traveled that road, i know it gets easier,but it's alway's there.
i'm not talking about actually buying or shooting steroids here. keep in mind there is nobody looking after the vitamin and supplement industry in the US. it is a billion dollar industry that depends on results for people to purchase these products. who among us can understand the ingredients on a bottle of supplements., or a can of bean's for that matter.
it's really easy to have opinions on your favorite team's/players. the roger clemens thing.........foolish. but i didn't care for roger. so i lean that way.
like it or not these guy's are just .....guy's, that have a skill. we all want to be the best we can at what we do. they are no different. who would be naive enough to walk into a GNC and buy a supplement and not know it could have a steroid in it?
hamilton will have a life long struggle to quell his demons. some day's chicken, some day's feathers. having traveled that road, i know it gets easier,but it's alway's there.
i'm not talking about actually buying or shooting steroids here. keep in mind there is nobody looking after the vitamin and supplement industry in the US. it is a billion dollar industry that depends on results for people to purchase these products. who among us can understand the ingredients on a bottle of supplements., or a can of bean's for that matter.
it's really easy to have opinions on your favorite team's/players. the roger clemens thing.........foolish. but i didn't care for roger. so i lean that way.
like it or not these guy's are just .....guy's, that have a skill. we all want to be the best we can at what we do. they are no different. who would be naive enough to walk into a GNC and buy a supplement and not know it could have a steroid in it?
I actually posted the above for the interview with Ortiz and milb players unions comments.
I really don't care about the other comments on other message boards, unless one was there durung that time, non of us have any clue or could understand that there are some who cheated knowingly and those that, like Ortiz, perhaps may have taken a supplement that yielded a positive result and that the list was to be kept quiet. My biggest argument is regarding the leaks and the reasons for them.
I am gonna take southeast coach's comments on a personal note, as my pretty well educated ball player would have no clue what might be harmful on a label from something he bought at GNC.
He would know however, that something in a needle injectible in his butt might not be too cool.
I really think there is a difference, and not going to argue about it. But it seems pretty clear here with all of the warnings being issued regularly about what supplements to avoid, these can give posititve results.
I really don't care about the other comments on other message boards, unless one was there durung that time, non of us have any clue or could understand that there are some who cheated knowingly and those that, like Ortiz, perhaps may have taken a supplement that yielded a positive result and that the list was to be kept quiet. My biggest argument is regarding the leaks and the reasons for them.
I am gonna take southeast coach's comments on a personal note, as my pretty well educated ball player would have no clue what might be harmful on a label from something he bought at GNC.
He would know however, that something in a needle injectible in his butt might not be too cool.
I really think there is a difference, and not going to argue about it. But it seems pretty clear here with all of the warnings being issued regularly about what supplements to avoid, these can give posititve results.
Just like what 20dad said, you would have to be naive if you walked into a GNC store and not have doubts about anything you take off the shelves. It's pretty simple in that nowadays you have to double check any supplements that you buy at any supplement store.
The public opinion is the strongest opinion.
An I don't mean no disrespect whatsoever, but if anybody is a pretty well educated kid, then they SHOULD have a clue into checking with someone with knowledge on if a supplement they just got has a dirty ingredient in it. Especially nowadays. An if any player is not sure or can't get the supplement approved, then they shouldn't take that particular one. I mean, it's not rocket science.
The public opinion is the strongest opinion.
An I don't mean no disrespect whatsoever, but if anybody is a pretty well educated kid, then they SHOULD have a clue into checking with someone with knowledge on if a supplement they just got has a dirty ingredient in it. Especially nowadays. An if any player is not sure or can't get the supplement approved, then they shouldn't take that particular one. I mean, it's not rocket science.
If this was a perfect world, it would be easy.
I am not arguing that it is each players responsibility to check what he puts in his body, legal or not.
FWIW, every player and trainer in MLB gets a number to call to use when standing in a drugstore or health food store to ask about the ingredients that are listed on the label. There is no way of knowing, because of lack of control what else is in that product of ingredients NOT listed. I have a problem with that. I have a problem with our government not controlling a multi million dollar industry that not only involves pro athletes but young players as well. I have a problem with leaking information about just a certain few...get that Coach?
FWIW, that list might not just include just steroid users, but those that took things that at that time, no one knew MIGHT give positive results. The players were NOT told what they took or why they were on that list, thus preventing anyone from knowing what they did and did not take that gave a positive result. Is that fair coach?
That might also includes a list of players taking prescription drugs not prescribed to them, ex. ritalin, probably the most abused substance right now by players. You get that Coach?
As lots of money is given for performance, lots of athletes will take advantage of a system that was entirely out of control. If the watchdogs are not watching who cares. I blame MLB and the union, not the players, who many of them can't even read the labels on the product. Get that Coach?
No one cares anyway, perhaps the purists, if people cared, you would see the seats empty at almost every sporting event.
Try playing the grueling schedule, try getting hurt and then losing your spot you worked so hard for, it becomes literally impossible at times to get ahead even when you do everything right. Why? Because it is big business and many learn how to get around the system, being in an already greedy business or out of desperation because you know nothing else to do but go to the ballpark everyday.
Most offenders these days are from latin countries, where climbing your way to top to get out of poverty means everything because you have no chance of going to college to get an education. Big money paid to 16 year olds these days, very tempting. Too tempting. And as far as our own, as long as we as parents place a high value on the dream, it's going to happen to those also. For the most part, I am happy that my player is subject to 5 random tests per year, that is what is important to me. Young players understand that they have a responsibility these days to preserve the game, but that wasn't what was on anyone's mind back in this decade.
I am extremely against any use of performance enhancing drugs, but seeing the business from the inside out, I can understand why this has all happened. This was part of the culture, the biggest offender being those that turned their backs when they knew what was going on, you might not understand that, and players don't give away clubhouse secrets, even when they know someone is doing something they shouldn't and that will never change.
Our differences is that you blame players, I don't, I blame the system they get paid big bucks from.
I am not arguing that it is each players responsibility to check what he puts in his body, legal or not.
FWIW, every player and trainer in MLB gets a number to call to use when standing in a drugstore or health food store to ask about the ingredients that are listed on the label. There is no way of knowing, because of lack of control what else is in that product of ingredients NOT listed. I have a problem with that. I have a problem with our government not controlling a multi million dollar industry that not only involves pro athletes but young players as well. I have a problem with leaking information about just a certain few...get that Coach?
FWIW, that list might not just include just steroid users, but those that took things that at that time, no one knew MIGHT give positive results. The players were NOT told what they took or why they were on that list, thus preventing anyone from knowing what they did and did not take that gave a positive result. Is that fair coach?
That might also includes a list of players taking prescription drugs not prescribed to them, ex. ritalin, probably the most abused substance right now by players. You get that Coach?
As lots of money is given for performance, lots of athletes will take advantage of a system that was entirely out of control. If the watchdogs are not watching who cares. I blame MLB and the union, not the players, who many of them can't even read the labels on the product. Get that Coach?
No one cares anyway, perhaps the purists, if people cared, you would see the seats empty at almost every sporting event.
Try playing the grueling schedule, try getting hurt and then losing your spot you worked so hard for, it becomes literally impossible at times to get ahead even when you do everything right. Why? Because it is big business and many learn how to get around the system, being in an already greedy business or out of desperation because you know nothing else to do but go to the ballpark everyday.
Most offenders these days are from latin countries, where climbing your way to top to get out of poverty means everything because you have no chance of going to college to get an education. Big money paid to 16 year olds these days, very tempting. Too tempting. And as far as our own, as long as we as parents place a high value on the dream, it's going to happen to those also. For the most part, I am happy that my player is subject to 5 random tests per year, that is what is important to me. Young players understand that they have a responsibility these days to preserve the game, but that wasn't what was on anyone's mind back in this decade.
I am extremely against any use of performance enhancing drugs, but seeing the business from the inside out, I can understand why this has all happened. This was part of the culture, the biggest offender being those that turned their backs when they knew what was going on, you might not understand that, and players don't give away clubhouse secrets, even when they know someone is doing something they shouldn't and that will never change.
Our differences is that you blame players, I don't, I blame the system they get paid big bucks from.
quote:I am extremely against any use of performance enhancing drugs, but seeing the business from the inside out, I can understand why this has all happened. This was part of the culture, the biggest offender being those that turned their backs when they knew what was going on, you might not understand that, and players don't give away clubhouse secrets, even when they know someone is doing something they shouldn't and that will never change.
Our differences is that you blame players, I don't, I blame the system they get paid big bucks from.
Good Post TPM.I agree with most of what you said.I also think that it will be a tough road to completely keep performing enhancing drugs of some nature out of pro sports.They will continue to come up with something to that is just a test away from being legal.And you are right that as parents who have kids who want to continue to play, that they themselves will not be up against those decisions themselves.When coaches continually talk about being bigger , stronger, more power etc.
Starting in college, I believe too many coaches have gotten away from development of a good player as a freshmen(not all) and are looking for guys that can contribute right away.As mentioned on this other site I was reading. a great coach takes that kid who has a feel for his swing, can play the game the right way and develops him.Too may do not anymore.
This feeds into the entire issue of kids feeling that in order to play at the next level they have to continually get bigger.If you look at the nutrition thread, a young kid got on there a week ago (he said he was 21 when asked)he wanted to take some pro hormone supplement to get buffer as he said. Another poster asked him why do you want to get buffer? Why does he? becasue its shoved down their throats from the time they are little guys.
I have been watching a lot of shut out baseball the last few days as we are all home sick, 0-0 games going into the 9th inning, lot of the big guys not coming through at times.Who cares?? the ticket buyers do. We as a public have gotten spoiled with watching guys hit 60 HR in a year and announcers many times have said : this guy has only hit 35 HR this year, his numbers are down.On national television how many times have you heard that?Do you really think most guys can ht 60 plus HR a year and play 160 plus games, and still have strenght.
I never will condone taking illegal substances, but how many of our sons take protein supplement shakes after a workout? Are we teaching them the wrong thing. All workout experts tell you to have a protein suplement after lifting.Its not illegeal, but we are ok with it. How many kids might take that a step further. Creatine? many parents on this site think its ok.Its legal, but it makes you bigger.isnt that why they take it?? So we as a culture have bought into the bigger player as well. How many times has that been discussed on this board.
I love watching Pedroia, 5'6 160-170 pounds, hes not taking PED( I certainly hope).Let him be an inspiration to young players.Just play the game right, hit line drives in the gaps, power will come as you get older.
As well, I agree with the players from some of the poorer countries,its not right, but if your decision came down to taking an illegal substance or going back to the Dominican and scraping for a meal you might do the same thing.
My son was telling me he heard a story on ESPN about Manny. I guess he asked his agent(or whoever helps him with his money), if he could afford a condo in Florida. the agent said you can afford the whole complex.This guy has no idea about how much money he has, still speaks poor english. Comes here, people are taking stuff to stay in the game, be competitive, he does it as well.
I think pro sports are tainted with illegal substances and it probably goes back further than we will ever know.I do not know how we stop it completely. And you should be able to go and take a vitamin supplement from a legal store in this country that does not contain illegal substnces. FDA needs to crack down on that kind of stuff.
who would be naive enough to walk into a GNC and buy a supplement and not know it could have a steroid in it?
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that was meant to be humorous.
i never check labels.
it is a dream to be a pro player. but life is like a sh#t sandwich........the more bread you've got the less sh#t you'll eat. we all do what we need to to make more bread. that's just the way it is.
a big business disguised as a little boy's dream.
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that was meant to be humorous.
i never check labels. it is a dream to be a pro player. but life is like a sh#t sandwich........the more bread you've got the less sh#t you'll eat. we all do what we need to to make more bread. that's just the way it is.
a big business disguised as a little boy's dream.
I totally agree with your take on the government not regulating the supplement industry. I also think that it is somewhat of the players responsibility that they know what to take. If their is a chance that it has a banned or illegal substance, then they can not take it. If it's going to give you a positive result, then the thought has to come to mind that their might be a substance in it that's enhancing the result. An if their taking a prescription drug that's not even prescribed to them is simply stupid on their part.
As for blaming the system and the union on the lack of control throughout MLB, I agree. I would say that it's 33% for each of the parties, the union, MLB, AND the players. Just because the system was broke or the union didn't care doesn't mean that none of the players bear some responsibility on what is going on. An like I said earlier, if they can't read a label, then they shouldn't take it.
An I think a lot of people care about what's happening in this situation. You can't say that just because there aren't empty seats in the stands that people don't care. The people in the seats probably realize that although it is a problem, a good percentage of players haven't taken a banned substance to achieve their goals. An they'll probably believe the players until they show up on a list or get suspended by MLB. Until that happens, fans don't have proof. So don't interpret filled stadiums as people "accepting" what's going on. I've looked at the message boards on different websites and I see that people care. It seems that the only people that don't care is the people in Boston, New York, San Fran, or Los Angelas. An them teams have or had players that were major contributers on their teams that were caught. Of course the fans aren't going to worry about it. They need them players to help their team to win. Them fans aren't going to turn their back on them.
I also realize that it's a grueling schedule and people get hurt. There are alot of players that do it the right way, such as the Griffeys, the Ripkens, the Gwynns, or the Jeters. If you're not good enough to win back your job after an injury, then that's how the cookie crumbles. If the player has a feeling that he needs to take a banned or illegal substance to win his job back then that's a gamble that they take. I'm desperate to make a million dollars in a year, that doesn't mean I'm going to do something illegal to reach that goal.
An I know more about the in's and out's of MLB then you think. In my 17 years of being a head coach at two high schools I am proud to say that I've helped 9 players reach their goal of playing in the MLB system. Three of them have played at the top level at one point or another and they keep in touch with me quite often. I'm thankful of that. An theirs always a few of them players that give "clubhouse secrets" away. Be it selling books or what have not. There's more then Jose Canseco that talks about it also.
As for blaming the system and the union on the lack of control throughout MLB, I agree. I would say that it's 33% for each of the parties, the union, MLB, AND the players. Just because the system was broke or the union didn't care doesn't mean that none of the players bear some responsibility on what is going on. An like I said earlier, if they can't read a label, then they shouldn't take it.
An I think a lot of people care about what's happening in this situation. You can't say that just because there aren't empty seats in the stands that people don't care. The people in the seats probably realize that although it is a problem, a good percentage of players haven't taken a banned substance to achieve their goals. An they'll probably believe the players until they show up on a list or get suspended by MLB. Until that happens, fans don't have proof. So don't interpret filled stadiums as people "accepting" what's going on. I've looked at the message boards on different websites and I see that people care. It seems that the only people that don't care is the people in Boston, New York, San Fran, or Los Angelas. An them teams have or had players that were major contributers on their teams that were caught. Of course the fans aren't going to worry about it. They need them players to help their team to win. Them fans aren't going to turn their back on them.
I also realize that it's a grueling schedule and people get hurt. There are alot of players that do it the right way, such as the Griffeys, the Ripkens, the Gwynns, or the Jeters. If you're not good enough to win back your job after an injury, then that's how the cookie crumbles. If the player has a feeling that he needs to take a banned or illegal substance to win his job back then that's a gamble that they take. I'm desperate to make a million dollars in a year, that doesn't mean I'm going to do something illegal to reach that goal.
An I know more about the in's and out's of MLB then you think. In my 17 years of being a head coach at two high schools I am proud to say that I've helped 9 players reach their goal of playing in the MLB system. Three of them have played at the top level at one point or another and they keep in touch with me quite often. I'm thankful of that. An theirs always a few of them players that give "clubhouse secrets" away. Be it selling books or what have not. There's more then Jose Canseco that talks about it also.
Re reading my post,I want to really emphasize tat I am not making excuses for anyone that has taken illegal substances, but I am agreeing with TPM. It didnt just start with the players.Those on top did turn their heads and continue to do so. Instead they leak a name or two every few days for us to get all upset about.I was watching a game last night when the announcer siad the pitcher had admitted to using PED and was suspended.They said no one got upset about it, he admitted it and went on to his puishment.But when Barry Bonds are A rod get accused people are up in arms, maybe becasue tey broke records.So the less popular ones go unnoticed.
I think we are a long way as a society removed from this era.We just have to try and teach our own boys right nutrition, and let thm know that there is nothing so important than to tak a chance to ruin their bodies and their lives and we would all prefer they walked away from the game before they ever chose something of that nature.
But there will be young men that will still try stuff to try and get an edge.I dont know how we can stop that completely.
I think we are a long way as a society removed from this era.We just have to try and teach our own boys right nutrition, and let thm know that there is nothing so important than to tak a chance to ruin their bodies and their lives and we would all prefer they walked away from the game before they ever chose something of that nature.
But there will be young men that will still try stuff to try and get an edge.I dont know how we can stop that completely.
quote:An I think a lot of people care about what's happening in this situation. You can't say that just because there aren't empty seats in the stands that people don't care. The people in the seats probably realize that although it is a problem, a good percentage of players haven't taken a banned substance to achieve their goals.
I agree with your statement.And I agree with you about people shopuldnt take it becasue they want to make a million dollars and thats the way the cookie crumbles.And I agree with you that you should not cheat no matter what.
But I do think there are players who are and will continue to be desperate enough to do whatever it takes to make it.And I do not know how we as a society will stop it.Yes I am concerned about it,but I will tell you I am most concerned that all of the posters on this site , every one of them, that none of our boys ever have to go to those lenghths.I pray every day that every poster on here who I have come to know, and care about thier kids success, and how hard they have worked and scrificed to be playing at whatever level they currently are at that my prayer is they never do things that can hurt their lives, futures, forget the baseball, I just want them to stay right.
We have a wonderful network of parents on here, many of our kids are playing past HS, some in the minors, some in the MLB.I pray for each and every one of your kids to stay the course and stay legal in the game.My concern is more of what this has done to influence the young people in the game. We cant go back and change what has happened, we can try to fix it,but again I want to see the next generation be clean and sfae and play the game right.
All I'm saying is the players need to take a little personal responsibility amongst themselves. I realize that owners and GM's and such "turned their heads" when it was going on, but that still doesn't make it right.
Your right they do need to take some responsibility. No argument at all. I was thinking though that sometimes we filter our beliefs throughour own set of morals. the way we were brought up and raised about right and wrong.Unfortunately not all people are brought up on the same moral code as us.They dont have a set of ethics that match ours. We bang our heads against a wall trying to understand why people could do such things as they do that are wrong.
some people will do anything to be successful, some do anything to survive.
Again I dont know the answers to the PED problem.In a perfect world, they would all admit they did it, who ever gave it to them would admit it, and they could really clean it up.But we do not live in a prefect world, and I learned a long time ago that I couldnt fix it, so I tend now to focus on those closest to me, while it matters to me and I want it to stop,I cant fix it.So I do all I can to pray, and educate young people to make better decisions for themselves.And my prayers reach out to those around me as well.
Education, prayer are two tools I can offer on my little section of the universe.
some people will do anything to be successful, some do anything to survive.
Again I dont know the answers to the PED problem.In a perfect world, they would all admit they did it, who ever gave it to them would admit it, and they could really clean it up.But we do not live in a prefect world, and I learned a long time ago that I couldnt fix it, so I tend now to focus on those closest to me, while it matters to me and I want it to stop,I cant fix it.So I do all I can to pray, and educate young people to make better decisions for themselves.And my prayers reach out to those around me as well.
Education, prayer are two tools I can offer on my little section of the universe.
quote:Originally posted by Coach From The Southeast:
All I'm saying is the players need to take a little personal responsibility amongst themselves.
No one is arguing that point. I know and hope that my son takes personal responsibilty, but he also probably thinks that anything he buys over the counter not banned by MLB is considered safe and I really think that he isn't the only one who thinks that way.
A few things here ---
Nobody is condoning the "use"
Some supplements have been found to not list "all" the ingredients---the illegal substances in the supplement are just being discovered
Back in 2003 many of the now illegal substances were not illegal--"Andro" for example was sold over the counter unless I am mistaken===
On the Sports Reporters ESPN) this morning one of the writers on the show stated that he felt Ortiz honestly and truly did know what he took---Having taken a so called legal supplement he got in the Dominican who the heck knows what was in it. To this moment , according to the union head, Ortiz still does not whhat caused him to fail the test.
My suggestion is give a one year grace period and then test more regularly and with stiffer penalties and tel the players to stay out of the so called "health stores" and in the meantime let MLB and the Union clean up their acts.
Nobody is condoning the "use"
Some supplements have been found to not list "all" the ingredients---the illegal substances in the supplement are just being discovered
Back in 2003 many of the now illegal substances were not illegal--"Andro" for example was sold over the counter unless I am mistaken===
On the Sports Reporters ESPN) this morning one of the writers on the show stated that he felt Ortiz honestly and truly did know what he took---Having taken a so called legal supplement he got in the Dominican who the heck knows what was in it. To this moment , according to the union head, Ortiz still does not whhat caused him to fail the test.
My suggestion is give a one year grace period and then test more regularly and with stiffer penalties and tel the players to stay out of the so called "health stores" and in the meantime let MLB and the Union clean up their acts.
quote:My suggestion is give a one year grace period and then test more regularly and with stiffer penalties and tel the players to stay out of the so called "health stores" and in the meantime let MLB and the Union clean up their acts.
Thats a good idea.
You all bring up great points and I enjoyed the conversation with TPM throughout today. I said my piece and I also learned what your stance was also. It's time to move on, I'll see you guys on another thread. Take care. 
The whole thing sounds like "I heard from so and so that so and so said he talked to so and so who said you ran a yellow light six years ago." The whole conversation lacks credibility or basis in fact.
So Big Papi gets a pass . He waits for about a week and has a press conference in NYC not in front of the Boston Media? It is all fishy to me. At least AROD came out and was truthful, he volunteered and let it out.In 2003 Big Papi had 4 hr's before July ( all star break ) and 27 afterward? He was good friends with manny and now the security guards in boston got busted for possession of steroids? It is pretty remarkable the supplements and vitamins he took back then got him on the list.
Ever since the news broke out he has been a mess and I know mentally he is mush. I'd wish he'd come out tell the truth and move on with his life.
I am a yanks fan and I am a mlb fan. SO I liked Manny and Big Papi even though they punished the yanks. I just wish everyone was truthful and let it all out instead of dragging it out.
Boston Massacre 2009 and counting....
Ever since the news broke out he has been a mess and I know mentally he is mush. I'd wish he'd come out tell the truth and move on with his life.
I am a yanks fan and I am a mlb fan. SO I liked Manny and Big Papi even though they punished the yanks. I just wish everyone was truthful and let it all out instead of dragging it out.
Boston Massacre 2009 and counting....
Arod was truthful? Says who? The entire situation is a freak show without evidence other than hearsay.
DAD04
I am with you---I thought AROD was a sham in his interview as he was coming out of HS--I would believe Ortie before AROD
I am with you---I thought AROD was a sham in his interview as he was coming out of HS--I would believe Ortie before AROD
Why is there no middle ground. Magwire was persecuted for the use of andro and creatine that's available over the counter and is legal to the public but is illegal by MLB standards. To me if it's an approved supplement by the FDA it should be available to the players. MLB needs to pull their heads out of the sand and stop pandering to those who are pining for simplier times.
The bottomline is:
If you are well liked and a media darling you get a pass. If the media doesn't like you or you wear a yankee unifrom then you will get bashed.
Is it a coincidence that ESPN is in Bristol and RedSox lovers??
It is a sham , they pick and choose who to bash. AROD was front page news and the lead story on ESPn, Big Papi takes a week and the story is not the lead any longer.
It is just amamzing to me how biased some of these public outlets are.
" Remember? ESPN made big news back then, getting an exclusive Rodriguez interview conducted by Peter Gammons. And after A-Rod held that spring training press conference in Tampa, ESPN offered instant, comprehensive analysis, provided by its investigative reporters and baseball commentators.
Yet on Saturday, after Ortiz's press conference, it seemed ESPN was in a hurry to split and hustle to that all important replay of its All-Star Home Run Derby coverage. And has anyone seen Gammons sitting down with Ortiz for a one-on-one?
Maybe this is all about a growing sense, expressed by a variety of pontificators, that the public has become tired of PED coverage. It would not be surprising if ESPN's decisions on its Ortiz coverage are based on TV ratings. Wouldn't be the first time ratings ruled (duh).
It's also worth noting that Ortiz's popularity, manifested through his engaging personality, has earned him major goodwill style points (Has Papi ever been in an ESPN commercial?) from not only ESPN, but those in the business of covering baseball. "
If you are well liked and a media darling you get a pass. If the media doesn't like you or you wear a yankee unifrom then you will get bashed.
Is it a coincidence that ESPN is in Bristol and RedSox lovers??
It is a sham , they pick and choose who to bash. AROD was front page news and the lead story on ESPn, Big Papi takes a week and the story is not the lead any longer.
It is just amamzing to me how biased some of these public outlets are.
" Remember? ESPN made big news back then, getting an exclusive Rodriguez interview conducted by Peter Gammons. And after A-Rod held that spring training press conference in Tampa, ESPN offered instant, comprehensive analysis, provided by its investigative reporters and baseball commentators.
Yet on Saturday, after Ortiz's press conference, it seemed ESPN was in a hurry to split and hustle to that all important replay of its All-Star Home Run Derby coverage. And has anyone seen Gammons sitting down with Ortiz for a one-on-one?
Maybe this is all about a growing sense, expressed by a variety of pontificators, that the public has become tired of PED coverage. It would not be surprising if ESPN's decisions on its Ortiz coverage are based on TV ratings. Wouldn't be the first time ratings ruled (duh).
It's also worth noting that Ortiz's popularity, manifested through his engaging personality, has earned him major goodwill style points (Has Papi ever been in an ESPN commercial?) from not only ESPN, but those in the business of covering baseball. "
quote:Originally posted by baseballbum:
The bottomline is:
If you are well liked and a media darling you get a pass. If the media doesn't like you or you wear a yankee unifrom then you will get bashed.
Is it a coincidence that ESPN is in Bristol and RedSox lovers??
It is a sham , they pick and choose who to bash. AROD was front page news and the lead story on ESPn, Big Papi takes a week and the story is not the lead any longer.
It is just amamzing to me how biased some of these public outlets are.
" Remember? ESPN made big news back then, getting an exclusive Rodriguez interview conducted by Peter Gammons. And after A-Rod held that spring training press conference in Tampa, ESPN offered instant, comprehensive analysis, provided by its investigative reporters and baseball commentators.
Yet on Saturday, after Ortiz's press conference, it seemed ESPN was in a hurry to split and hustle to that all important replay of its All-Star Home Run Derby coverage. And has anyone seen Gammons sitting down with Ortiz for a one-on-one?
Maybe this is all about a growing sense, expressed by a variety of pontificators, that the public has become tired of PED coverage. It would not be surprising if ESPN's decisions on its Ortiz coverage are based on TV ratings. Wouldn't be the first time ratings ruled (duh).
It's also worth noting that Ortiz's popularity, manifested through his engaging personality, has earned him major goodwill style points (Has Papi ever been in an ESPN commercial?) from not only ESPN, but those in the business of covering baseball. "
I hate to tell you this, but the Red Sox AND the Yankees are the darlings of ESPN.
It would have to be. Bristol is closer to NY than Boston. The Hartford market receives broadcasts from both teams.quote:Is it a coincidence that ESPN is in Bristol and RedSox lovers??
They are both big markets and both on the East Coast. So yes they get a ton of coverage but if you watch closely they are bias towards the Sox. That is why they are known as NESPN on the east coast. I am out here on the west coast so yes the Angels and Dodgers coverage gets shuffled to the back burner.
The exposure issue west coast teams have is their games end after a majority of the country has gone to sleep.