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Thanks for sharing.  I'm sure it was a very tough choice for your son.  Best of luck to him at UW hope it is everything he is looking for!!

Thank you for sharing your son's story with us.  Good luck to him at UW.  And hopefully you'll keep us up to date on his engineering career.

Thanks for letting us know how it turned out. That's a great school. Congrats and good luck him.

Great post BOGEYORPAR, thanks for sharing the process that your son went through.  One of my boys was in a very similar situation although with football.  Initially it was very hard to swallow but definitely was a great decision for his life track.  After hearing a prominent coach tell him not to make his decision based on the coming 4 years but his next 40, a lot of clarity came pretty quickly for him.  Best of luck to your son moving forward, he sounds like he has a great head on his shoulders + is off to a good start! 

Great stuff, there is life after baseball, for him and you!

Best of luck, coming from an engineering family, I love it.

Thanks for sharing Bogey. Good luck to your son in his engineering career.

Thanks for sharing, good luck to your son on his new adventures! 

Bogey, sounds like your son hit an ace.  Congrats!  UW is a very cool place!

It was very mature of your son to make the correct choice for the long run rather than for short term gratification.

Bogey,

Thanks for the update.   Been there with my middle son, so I know kind of what you are feeling.  Not to worry, he'll be so focused on engineering that it will be difficult to think of anything else!  Just kidding....sort of.  ;-)   Like your son, my middle son picked a big D1 Power 5 engineering school.  There is so much going on his campus, and the future job opportunities and internships are right there either through the school or on his own.   My son found internships on his own and had a well paying engineering job with a large energy company before he started his senior year.  If he is passionate about an engineering career then he'll love it, and won't look back.  

Good luck, and feel free to PM if you want to chat further.

Fenwaysouth

I recently purchased BB equipment on ebay from a college bound retiree. I am a terrible internet consumer and entered the incorrect shipping address and had to reach out to the kid to fix. He was a very nice young man looking forward to start the next phase of his life, but the selling of his gear was clearly bitter sweet. He was grateful that it was going to continue on a high school and travel career. Luckily the conversation was by keyboard as I was admittedly a little emotional. 

Thanks for sharing, Bogey... I think this is a great example of someone deciding to leave the game (at least in part) for all the right reasons and with nothing but a huge upside looming.  Of course, bittersweet but many leave or are told they are done with far more bitter.

Congratulations to you and your son!

smokeminside posted:

Bogey, sounds like your son hit an ace.  Congrats!  UW is a very cool place!

There's an Asian baseball player from our area going to Amherst this year. The minority population of the team will continue to grow.

Hey Bogey your sons journey sounds a lot like my sons. There is a lot of life after baseball so best wishes! He will make you proud in so many other ways!

fenwaysouth posted:

Bogey,

Thanks for the update.   Been there with my middle son, so I know kind of what you are feeling.  Not to worry, he'll be so focused on engineering that it will be difficult to think of anything else!  Just kidding....sort of.  ;-)   Like your son, my middle son picked a big D1 Power 5 engineering school.  There is so much going on his campus, and the future job opportunities and internships are right there either through the school or on his own.   My son found internships on his own and had a well paying engineering job with a large energy company before he started his senior year.  If he is passionate about an engineering career then he'll love it, and won't look back.  

Good luck, and feel free to PM if you want to chat further.

Fenwaysouth

Fenway, your elder son's story has always been the inspiration for my son -- doing both Engineering and Baseball at the highest level is super hard and only a few super humans can achieve that! I haven't heard your middle son's story before. When my son forwarded me the "upside of quiting" story, I know he's still trying to justify his decision. I will let him know your middle son's story to give him more comfort. 

2022NYC posted:

I recently purchased BB equipment on ebay from a college bound retiree. I am a terrible internet consumer and entered the incorrect shipping address and had to reach out to the kid to fix. He was a very nice young man looking forward to start the next phase of his life, but the selling of his gear was clearly bitter sweet. He was grateful that it was going to continue on a high school and travel career. Luckily the conversation was by keyboard as I was admittedly a little emotional. 

Are you looking to purchase more? We have some "like new" equipment that we have no use of any more …  

standballdad posted:

Hey Bogey your sons journey sounds a lot like my sons. There is a lot of life after baseball so best wishes! He will make you proud in so many other ways!

Yes, standballbad, I've learned a lot from your boy's experience. Heck, I didn't even know some of the top schools require certain subject test scores until talking to you. Once my son topped that score, several coaches immediately started calling. 

How's your boy doing at AF? 

Hey bogey, in your opinion what's a realistic ACT score for Amherst, Williams, Tufts, Swarthmore,....for baseball players?

I do not know of those schools but our guy was top recruit for several Ivies with a 86mph FB and 28 ACT.

Apparently the faster u throw the lower the ACT?

@31 posted:

Hey bogey, in your opinion what's a realistic ACT score for Amherst, Williams, Tufts, Swarthmore,....for baseball players?

Contact @smokeminside. He's been through the high academic gauntlet 3 times with baseball boys.  Attend(ed) several on your list.  And others on the list were in the recruitment mix.  

My HS class of 2020 and 2022 both had conversations with different Ivies and NESCAC schools (Williams, Bowdoin, Middlebury). The better the athlete the more flexibility with the most flexibility at Ivies. A 28/29 was the number for ACT along with at least a 3.0 (non weighted) with some rigor in coursework depending on school and some other circumstances.  I am fairly certain that Ivies and many NESCAC's were test optional for 2022 grads.

My son has been told by several coaches that test optional doesn’t apply to recruited baseball players. At least with Ivies and the top HA schools. Even a test blind coach told him he will need his test scores to take to admissions. He can’t submit with the application, but coach said he needs to show them.

We could not even visit at Jr days Ivies without test scores run by admissions.

@used2lurk posted:

My HS class of 2020 and 2022 both had conversations with different Ivies and NESCAC schools (Williams, Bowdoin, Middlebury). The better the athlete the more flexibility with the most flexibility at Ivies. A 28/29 was the number for ACT along with at least a 3.0 (non weighted) with some rigor in coursework depending on school and some other circumstances.  I am fairly certain that Ivies and many NESCAC's were test optional for 2022 grads.

I'll attempt to add some color here as I've known many that have gone to either Ivy or NESCAC.   True, the Ivys have a little more flexibility as they have more slots that the coach can (try) to champion through Admissions.  The NESCACs have fewer slots.  A slot is a reserved roster spot for an athlete.   How both coaches strategically use those slots to optimize their recruiting haul varies from year to year.  Coaches don't get every recruit they want.

Every year it seems that many recruits start their search with the Ivys then downshift to the NESCAC schools.  Also, there is the usual cascading effect of talent from D1 -> D3 as the recruiting calendar heads to the Fall.  Possibly the Ivys have more brand recognition, but I think these NESCAC schools more than hold their own for exceptional quality student athletes.   I'm a huge fan, and I've helped many kids with their recruitment to these schools.

As far as Ivy test scores, you want to be sitting around 31/32 on the low end unless you are an impact player and the Coach can make his recruitment class "balance out" so he can get a 28/29 for baseball recruits....but those guys are unicorns.  Again, I think the NESCACs are looking for ACT 31/32 on the low end with a lot of their recruits sitting 34 or better.  Williams and Amherst are slightly more than the rest of the NESCAC just as Harvard, Yale & Princeton are slightly more in the Ivy.

Overall, I've seen the Ivys getting the projected bigger/better athlete and the NESCAC get the better projected student based on ACT/SAT scores.  More than half of the NESCAC recruits meet the admissions standards on their own without a coaches slot.  I can't say that about Ivy baseball players in my experience.

Just my opinion and experience.  I hope that helps @31.

I read "86mph FB and 28 ACT" and thought that sounded a little low, especially on the ACT side.  The 31/32 for the "good" player sounded more like I had assumed.  I suspect I might be able to get my kid up to 86 mph off the mound but much less certain he could pound out a 32.

Fenwaysouth - while you are no the topic, can you briefly outline the timing for Ivy and NESCAC recruiting.  If there is early recruiting, are there major caveats to offers or do offers usually have to wait until sufficient academic strength is provided?  Very interested in your timeline of the "downshift" you reference in your post and what specifically triggers this.

@2017 Lefty Dad

Tough topic to be brief on but here it goes.   PM me if you have specific follow up question.   Ivys have stepped up their recruiting timeline to high school sophomore year for a very few.  This is a major reason I (and others) have suggested that if you know you want to go an Ivy and you are getting offers from D1 P5s and D1 mid-major then take the SAT or ACT in the Spring of sophomore year to give yourself lots of options.   Keep in mind,  the recruit has to be ready athletically as well as academically (this is the tough part) to get in on the front end.   The same rules apply to junior year which is when the majority of the Ivy recruiting activity will take place.  The key is exposure and somebody advocating for you (typically the travel or hs coach) in addition to being a genuine D1 prospect with high SATs and ACTs.  So if your son was not comfortable taking SAT spring soph year then take early junior year.   This gives the prospect more boxes checked when he speaks to an Ivy RC.

Ivy rejection is the trigger.  The downshift is starting right now, and the D3 HA coaches and HA showcases are ramping up with roster spots available.  This is their time.   Lots of folks are at the tail end of Ivy recruiting and realizing it isn't going to happen for one reason or another.   Either the board scores weren't high enough for some guys, and they have to recalibrate their choices because D1 scholarship money is gone.   The other guys who had high enough ACTs, SATs will be recruited by the D3 HAs.  The D3 HA coaches are looking for guys that the Ivys overlooked.

This churn happens every year.   The one thing that is different now (from 10 years ago) is the transfer portal and JUCO transfers.  This has become the wildcard.  So, it becomes real important to understand exactly what these coaches are saying and not saying when on the phone, email, text and in person.  Ask lots of specific questions.

Not sure 86 FB for a rhp is enough for Ivy, unless you are very tall with potential to fill out - at least that was our experience, obviously there is a lot more going into it than just FB and height (but my son was well above those test scores).

Fenway is exactly right that the Ivies finish up in late July and then the HA D3 action gets intense.

Thank you for all  your great inputs.  It's a lonely journey navigating through all this.

It would've been much easier if my son a stud player or 31+ ACT. He's a  4.31 30 ACT kid with baseball talent of D3.

Does anyone have an idea where Georgetown stands in terms of ACT, grades and level of baseball talent?

And Emory?

@31 posted:

Thank you for all  your great inputs.  It's a lonely journey navigating through all this.

It would've been much easier if my son a stud player or 31+ ACT. He's a  4.31 30 ACT kid with baseball talent of D3.

Does anyone have an idea where Georgetown stands in terms of ACT, grades and level of baseball talent?

And Emory?

Georgetown's two RHPs from 2022 class both 90 or above.  1 Lefty just a click below that.

Emory is same as other highly selective/NESCAC level schools.  Can't help you with scores as Lefty was a 22 and most schools were test optional. Was told by several schools "we just won't submit it then" when they heard he only had a 32/33 (can't remember- we didn't focus on it much knowing we'd get a pass with admissions)

Those in the NJ/PA/MD area have their version of NESCAC w/ the Centennial Conference - IIRC Swathmore, Haverford, and Johns Hopkins being the more selective. IMO nothing like going to Gettysburg to watch a baseball DH and be able to look over the battlefields...  If you're going HA be sure it's a school you want first and try not to look at the bottom line as it's insanely high.  You point out VA as your location - going to school & playing ball in MA, VT, or ME is going to be a shock. Nothing like baseball when the wind chill drops you down into the upper 20's or when flurries start...

Amherst / Williams are beautiful, but not near much - college towns so to speak. Remember you have to get there too ;-)... My oldest son went to Tufts (football) and loved being close to Boston. We visited every NESCAC and while we were nuts, in hindsight it was a great decision (moral of the story do your visits and your son needs to know what's important to him)...  If you're thinking NESCAC, then visit in Jan/Feb - as in the start of baseball season (indoors). It is possible for your son to reach out to any of the RC/HC or admissions of the schools he's interested in and ask questions related to his scores.

@31 posted:

Thank you for all  your great inputs.  It's a lonely journey navigating through all this.

It would've been much easier if my son a stud player or 31+ ACT. He's a  4.31 30 ACT kid with baseball talent of D3.

No need to go it alone, you've got hsbbw!

When you say "baseball talent of D3" what do you mean? For High Academic schools with small acceptance rates, the key is to have enough talent that the coach will give support with admissions. D3s have no roster limits, so a coach can put as many players who get admitted on the team.  There are less selective D3 schools that have strong baseball teams, and less selective D3s with less strong baseball teams.

@31 posted:

Thank you for all  your great inputs.  It's a lonely journey navigating through all this.

It would've been much easier if my son a stud player or 31+ ACT. He's a  4.31 30 ACT kid with baseball talent of D3.

Does anyone have an idea where Georgetown stands in terms of ACT, grades and level of baseball talent?

And Emory?

FWIW -

My 2021 daughter is a softball pitcher in the UAA (Emory, Wash U, Carnegie Mellon, Case Western, NYU, Rochester, Brandeis, UChicago). She was heavily recruited by Williams and Amherst with a 3.9, 31 ACT, and 3 APs. She got a thumbs up from admissions at every school she was recruited by. Her talent level is def D3, but at the high end of D3.

She's dating one of the baseball pitchers at her college; he's also a 2021 HS grad. Boyfriend (who's 6'5") told her that throwing 90mph at the time of recruitment was the clear dividing line between D1 and D3.

Finally, I don't know about baseball, but in swimming Georgetown flexed quite a bit on grades (down to we think about a 3.5/30 ACT) if the times were low enough.

The higher the talent, the lower the academic requirements, subject to a lower bound that is highest in the NESCAC, lower in the UAA, even lower in the Ivies, and goes down from there.

@anotherparent posted:

No need to go it alone, you've got hsbbw!

When you say "baseball talent of D3" what do you mean? For High Academic schools with small acceptance rates, the key is to have enough talent that the coach will give support with admissions. D3s have no roster limits, so a coach can put as many players who get admitted on the team.  There are less selective D3 schools that have strong baseball teams, and less selective D3s with less strong baseball teams.

Each HA D3 coach has 2-3 annual chits with admissions, to keep their rosters competitive year-year. Players who don't get the chit because of talent, but who are still great students and would otherwise qualify, can apply through the regular admissions process (if they and their parents aren't too put off at having been rejected for a chit). The coach will often coach make admissions aware of who these "walk ons" are.

The exceptions are MIT, CalTech and UChicago. Those coaches have no chits. And, importantly, those 3 schools make few accommodations for athletes once enrolled.

Hopefully @MidAtlanticDad will chime in here, he has a lot of experience with Virginia D3s, as do several other posters.

In fact, I'm wondering whether you might want to ask a question in a new  thread, with a topic that might get more of a response.

My sense is that many HA D3 baseball coaches get more than 3 slots for admissions.  The key thing is to listen carefully to what the coaches are telling you.  If they say "if you get in, you have a place on the team," it's different from "I have four almost-guaranteed slots and you will have one of them."

In almost all cases, these are offered after what's known as a pre-read, where the player sends transcript and (possibly) test scores to the coach, who runs it past the athletics' admissions rep.

@anotherparent posted:

Hopefully @MidAtlanticDad will chime in here, he has a lot of experience with Virginia D3s, as do several other posters.

In fact, I'm wondering whether you might want to ask a question in a new  thread, with a topic that might get more of a response.

My sense is that many HA D3 baseball coaches get more than 3 slots for admissions.  The key thing is to listen carefully to what the coaches are telling you.  If they say "if you get in, you have a place on the team," it's different from "I have four almost-guaranteed slots and you will have one of them."

In almost all cases, these are offered after what's known as a pre-read, where the player sends transcript and (possibly) test scores to the coach, who runs it past the athletics' admissions rep.

Yes, it is prob more than 3, esp at the Ivies. But the top 2-3 are locks; the rest are not.

Pre-reads happen over the summer, mid-June through mid-July. They take a few weeks.

The HC generally will call after or the student may get a "likely letter". If the student wants to play ball at that school, they'll have to apply ED1, deadline 11/1 or 11/15, with notification 12/1 or 12/15. Deadline to make a deposit signalling enrollment is usually January.

Just catching up here.

ACT 33/3.9 unweighted gpa worked at all NESCAC and other High Academic schools that recruited my '17. All prereads (Bowdoin, Bates, Middlebury, Amherst, Tufts, Wesleyan, Grinnell, Whitman) were positive. None were positive at SCIAC, but there wasn't coach's support either.

Same with '19.Those scores/grades (33/3.9) worked  at Tufts, Amherst, Middlebury, Wesleyan, Swarthmore.

'22: different story, No ACT scores, and not a lot of rigor in transcript. Recruited heavily at wide range of D3s,  none of whom required SAT/ACT. But once the admissions office saw transcript, the Highest Academics went in a "different direction" as they say. Some high academics stuck with him  and he's leaving for one in a couple weeks.

Kid is is the same academic range as smoke. No problem with his NESCAC school read and kid told me of their ability to get a small number of kids in. All but one HA school he was talking to did not blink about his grades & test scores.

My ‘23 son has had no pushback from coaches on his transcript. He’s got a B- in AP World History and B’s in English. They’ve all told him admissions doesn’t want to see C’s and wants A’s in STEM classes. Also told him nothing lower than a 4 on AP exams. Will finish HS with 12 AP’s.  Higher level math like differential equations and linear algebra are also difference makers with admissions. Also has a 1530. These schools are the highest of HA. I guess we’ll see what they say. Sending out some pre-reads and transcripts today upon request. FWIW, he’s also doing a STEM research internship with one of the top physics research labs in the country. He was told by one of the coaches that would make him “more like the applicant pool”.

I’ll update more as he gets through these next couple weeks. I have no idea yet if he will make it through or not. These coaches have been at their schools a long time and I’d have to think they wouldn’t waste their time on him if they weren’t confident.

My son has experience with what doesn't cut it.  He is a '21 RHP who was sitting 85mph and topping out at 88mph his junior year.  Went to a private high school and had a couple of rigorous classes - 2 AP's and 6 Honors.  3.7 GPA and 1230 SAT - which was taken at the end of sophomore year.  Was not able to get another test due to Covid cancellations, which he ended up not needing (his school went test blind.)  When he was talking to coaches in late spring '20 and early summer '20, they all still wanted a test score.   He wasn't targeting HA schools since he knew his grades were too low but a couple of coaches did reach out to him (Emory was one.)  They quickly ended the conversation when grades came up.  One coach at a very high academic D3 did verbally offer him a spot and was confident he had the pull to get him in despite the lower GPA - my husband and I asked him "have you seen his grades?"  As suspected, admissions said his rigor was fine, but the grades were too low.

Son is at a less selective D3 with a very strong baseball program - a much better academic fit for him, financial fit for mom & dad and has the program he wants.