Over-recruiting at D-III??

UW Whitewater , which won the DIII championship in May, had about 100 players try out for the team this fall. Success does that!

The real question is, how many were recruited? Most if not all DIII schools hold open tryouts. So anyone who decides to attend school there can tryout.

The School my son is attending has something like 20 freshman trying out. Again the question is how many were recruited and how many are just trying out to see if they can make it.

In addition, as you alluded to, since the school does not get a letter of intent from their recruits they may also recruit more aggressively because they really do not know who will actually show up until September when classes start.

Under "Ask about Colleges" there is a thread titled, "Mary Washington", last post was 11/5 in which a D3 Coach references over recrutiment.........and yes the lack of the NLI is a major contributing factor.

Yes--I saw that thread, too. Guess one of my questions is, "How does a player and parent KNOW that the player is a legit recruit, with a spot on the team, vs an "over-recuit", where there may be no guarantee?

JT, here are some thoughts based on our experience:
1. The quality of play at DIII covers a very wide spectrum. Make sure your son knows the quality of play at the schools he is considering and is realistic about how he fits.
2. Our son's former Coach firmly believes in summer leagues. From the very first conversations we had with him, he was talking about not only how he saw our son fitting with his program but also the expectations on where he would be placed in summer leagues. He does this with many recruits that he feels strongly can contribute to the program.
3. DIII coaches often are disappointed by top recruits going elsewhere, even after the student has placed a deposit. It really is true they cannot feel comfortable until the very first day of school.
4. Top DIII programs/coaches recruit very hard. Many are at showcases/area codes, etc. They know the players in advance. Anticipating a player can walk on sight unseen at one of these programs is pretty unrealistic, IMO.
5. Make sure your son visits and spends a weekend on campus with the team and coaches. It is at your expense but very well worth the expense. If the coach really wants your son, he will make this a priority.
6. Ask and understand how the coach views your son in the program. Research the number of returning players but realize that at DIII there is quite a bit of attrition. Our experience was each freshman class had 12-15 players. About 5, on average, were still playing 4 years later. Reasons include injury, academics, lose desire, realize DIII is a lot more effort/time committment than anticipated, family situations, finances. While this is a benefit to the player, it is also why DIII programs might be viewed as "overrecruiting".
7. If the school is considered to be a top academic/athletic DIII, you can anticipate a higher yield ratio for acceptances and more walk ons. Just a fact of life but Fall ball/lifting/etc has a pretty immediate impact on the numbers.

Son is a recruited freshman at a D3.........Think the amount of attention your son is receiving from the Coach is a good indicator of how serious he is about the recruitment. Son had approximately 12 D3's recruiting him....We could tell he was a serious recruit at 8 or 9 of those schools because of the amount and quality (what they were saying) of the communications from the coaches......but we couldn't tell you with 100% positivity, then or now, that he will play at the school he chose.....and that can also be said for a lot of players recruited to D2 and D1's.

The walk-ons and try-outs at D3's are common. In son's case his school made it to the D3CWS....and as another poster said....that will attract more hopeful players....but.....if a recruited D3 has any advantage it is that the Coach has a pre-determined perception of his playing skills, and how son will fit into the program. As long as son meets or hopefully exceeds the Coaches' expectations......he has a better than average shot at playing ball.

quote:

but we couldn't tell you with 100% positivity, then or now, that he will play at the school he chose.....and that can also be said for a lot of players recruited to D2 and D1's.

Yep, there are no guarantees......

Infielddad, very good and thoughtful post....thank you. Think point 5 is important. The trip is at the parent's expense, but the investment can result not only in helping son make better decisions, but also in the Coach becoming more committed to having your son in his program....and sometimes that can result in higher academic scholarship money.....depending on the the Coaches influence with the schools financial aid office.....it can be a major return on the price of the plane ticket.

I think the term " over recruitiment" is a misnomer for Division III schools--- they all hold tryouts and a good number of the kids who come out in the fall were not "recruited" per se.

Many kids think they can go Division III and just try out and make the team-- NOT SO !!!!

People tell kids it is easier to make a Division III team than Division I and II. That is so far from the truth it hurts--

JT,
That thread is what I put out there...and TRHIT...obviously nail right on the head! There are not secrets to "this is how you can tell" I'll put it to you this way...We had 24 visits last Sat & Sun alone...of those about 22 of them are actively being recruited by staff...I told them all when speaking to them I have 272 kids on my recruiting list...hoping to have 50-75 take visits in hopes of landing between 10-15...In that room were 3 top notch catchers from this area...all 3 have DI offers and I told them as they were sitting side by side and didn't realize that they all played the same position...what I tell everyone!
--First, I recruit the best, with that comes guys who are being recruited by other schools, which means I could lane 0 or all 3...I try not to over-recruit, however there will be a chance that all 3 will come my way and we have to figure out who the top 2 guys will be!
--Second, I find that most position players may not play the same position in College as they did in HS...my team last season had HS Catchers in 5 positions: C, 3B, SS, CF, RF...go figure. I recruit athletes and like guys who can play multiple positions.
--Third, You have to find a program that you like, academically, athletically. You need to walk away from the school understanding the coach. I happen to be a players coach...so most guys are comfortable with me! I tell them that if I like them as a player I will try not to over recruit that position, but what am I to do if Ivan Rodriguez walks through the door...they all get it! I try to as honest as possible, not all coaches are...as a parent...after meeting with the coach you should be able to get a good feeling of where his inner-ethics lies and that is where you can tell what the coach does! I know of the teams I play, which recruit in 20-30 guys per year, and those that bring in 10 with an additional 10-15 walk on...there is a difference...I can see it a mile away, but players, parents get snowed by money, or thinking that there kid is the best player this side of the MISSISSIPPI!...NCAA Stat: 25,700 athletes fill out freshman paperwork for baseball...yet only 7,300 have a roster spot as a freshman, and 5,700 become seniors..

http://www.ncaa.org/research/prob_of_competing/

Thanks, coach. This info helps a lot--especially your last point. It is nice to get a coach's point of view in all this.

I'll add this from the perspective of a parent of a sophomore D3 player:

Even if a player earns a roster spot and playing time as a freshman, that does not guarantee that he will earn the same or more the next year! Just like the D1 and D2 levels, my son's coach is continually recruiting to make the team stronger, including bringing in JUCO transfers. This year there are two Junior pitchers who transferred in and may bump my son down in the pitching rotation. Most weekends this fall there are JUCO (as well as HS) recruits visiting, some of whom will compete with him for innings next year. My son sees it as the coach doing his job to help the team win, and my son has the very same job - work to improve himself so that he can help the team win also. There are no guarantees of playing time at any level of college baseball.

I agree, MN-Mom! My worry is my son will end up at a school as a "recruit" and all it will mean is that he gets to walk on with 50+ other kids for a "chance" to make the team. Would stink to fork out $$ for a school when he could stay in town and go for free where I work.

Guess as a dad, I still want to be on the look out for him, and want him to get in the best possible situation.

JT - All college parents understand your concern. There just never are any guarantees. The best you can do is to research a coach and a program - look at their history. Then, like JVC says, I think when you meet with coaches, you do truly get a gut feeling as to what your son means to them, their program, as well as what the coach's word means to himself. The thing is, you, unlike most parents/players have a very good option waiting if it doesn't work out for your son at another school!

Lafmom, very good post. And JT, at least you know the questions that you or your son should ask - think of how many families have no idea that ANY colleges over-recruit, and just assume that if a college coach is calling the player regularly, he'll be a starter freshman year! Also, you've probably read this many times, but as we learned from this site, my son chose a school where baseball looked like a good fit, but where he also really felt comfortable with the school for all the non-baseball factors. He's a few months into his 2nd year there and mentioned recently how glad he is that he found "the perfect school for him".

JT, congratulations. IMO, your posting has given you the "hands on" experience of what recruiting and being recruited is about. JVC has done a very good job of presenting the coaches perspective. He talks glowingly of the skills of the recruit(3 with DI offers) and also speaks to the players desire to compete and excel(only recruit the best.) When you are a parent/player who wants to play in college, this is very powerful to hear. As the player and parent, you need to know more, much more.
In this thread, parents have given you some wonderful insight in how to deal with the coach and how to sort out how your son will fit in that program. As JVC states, he has 3 catching recruits and if he gets all 3, then he has to figure out the top 2. IMO,it is your role to take the experiences/advice of parents who have been through the process and use the suggestions they are offering to minimize the concerns you have expressed and satisfy your self where your son fits in those 3 catchers if they each commit and each work extremely hard. I will emphasize that the coach who recruited my son was very clear from day 1 what he expected to happen if mine worked hard and the coach exceeded every recruiting committment he made.

Thanks to all for the "instant lesson." I've been around this site for a couple of years, but only in the last couple of months have even payed attention to the over-recruiting and it was it means (and I WORK in D-I athletics). I certainly feel more prepared as we make college visits during the winter months. Hopefully, I can relay our experiences as well as you folks have.

Infielddad--from what I've read about your son, it worked in spades for him. Best of luck at the next level.

arizonared makes some good points regarding the quality/quantity of time spent with the recruit.

Junior has been to several schools, at invitation of coach - some where cattle calls. 3 were "personal". Individual tour of school and facilites, one on one with the coach and assistants, etc are good signs. One coach, with a good reputation told Junior: "we are going after 5 guys this year - you are one of them." This was after we had just spent 5.5 hours with him - me, Junior, and Coach. Follow up emails repeated same. This is a good indication. You obviously won't get this everywhere, but it told us something. Asking some of the players what the previous season's tryout were like also could help give you an idea.