Overinvolvment

TR

That is what is great about this site. Anyone that will sit back, read and KEEP an open mind will learn from this site why it is important not to become one of those parents. I think down deep that type of parenting is in us all, we get it confused with caring for our kids. We want everything to be perfect for them.

In the final analtsis you realize if you really care, you back away and let them grow.

I agree with TR, seems like there is too much over involvement. Real life is not everything is perfect, that is not the lessons you should teach your kids, IMO anyway.
Take your overinvolvement and put it to good use, used to see the parents that had so many concerns in HS try real hard to get out of their concession time, or not helping out when the coaches needed clean up of the fields, or for fundraising, then they all disappeared. These are the things you should be involved with, not the coaches job.

No doubt we want the best for our kids, we all have the same thoughts about the same concerns, but IMO, it's those that keep it to themselves who will see their kids have success. There is a correlation between being too involved and not seeing your kids move forward, despite their talent.

JMO.

And I think Chris Lincecum is a prime example of how overinvolvement can ruin a kid's chances. OK, OK, he probably did hurt his son's chances in some ways, but he also helped in others.

Sure, most of us need to stay out of it and our kids will thank us, but there are also some situations out there such as overuse, and in rare cases situations that are simply untenable where a parent needs to step in and get the kid out of there. Did Joe Montana do something wrong when he transferred his kid from DeLaSalle? It would have been a real character builder for the kid to have stayed there as a backup. The reality however was that he was better served by going somewhere where he could start.

In other words, while keeping one's nose out of it and spending extra time in the concession stand and doing fieldwork is certainly good advice, each and every situation is different and there are times when it doesn't apply. The tough part for most parents is knowing where to draw the line.

I don't think this has anything to do with overuse, that's a whole other issue.

I was making a point, get involved in parent things, things that can help the team, not trying to tell the coach how to do his job.

quote:

have been around the game for many moons at all levels but i have to tell you I have never seen parental involvement as excessive as it is currently

I honestly don't think it's that bad.......in TEXAS or CALIFORNIA!

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
I have been around the game for many moons at all levels but i have to tell you I have never seen parental involvement as excessive as it is currently

As much as I respect this site and it's members, it is the vehicle that provides the over zealous parents a place to vent their issues in an anonymous forum.

I tend to agree with the original poster...

I do see coaches in my area struggle with this.

You can spot these parents from a mile away, worried about everything....

Do coaches "these days" take a tough enough approach concerning these situations?

Are coaches "these days" too "politically correct"?

Why is it so important to have an "open door" policy on everything?

IMO, Coaches shouldn't have to explain anything!.. and when they do, the door becomes wide open.

If AD's don't support them, maybe they can't take a tougher stand?

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming coaches, but I would like to see them take a tougher approach which might diminish the problem.

quote:

I have never seen parental involvement as excessive as it is currently

Isn't this the same as parents who spoil their kids complaining about kids being spoiled? Why do HS coaches put up with it? They can put an end to it if they want to. Or, they can let it go on by putting up with it.

Great example....

Craig and Adam James

I see where Dutch could come up with those questions. With that said I think it is important not to stereotype that across the board. I'm sure everyone can say their area is not the same as others. In our area I think the over zealous parent factor is less than it was when my son was in HS 6 years ago.

My theory is that most of those troublesome parents had kids that were not the cream and Mom/Dad wore the fashionable "rose colored glasses" which distorted Jr's actual ability. With that said, I believe that years ago the talent level was very linear and parents were looking for that edge that might put their kid over the top and at times were vicious going for it. Today, IMO, the talent level is dispersed into 3 levels, the cream, the mid-pack, and the "fill", and the players and their parents know what part of the pot their kid sits. As a result, IMHO, parents do not like to eat crow and unless they lack those "social skills" that reminds them when to keep their mouth shut, they will sit back and do their betchin' behind closed doors.

Remember that I'm talking about my area and yours may be different. Another point is that we sometimes go into the rhetoric that begins "Years ago....". Before people say that they should look in the mirror and ask themselves "Do I REALLY know or have the 1st hand knowledge what it was like years ago dealing with the age I'm dealing with today? I think many will find that they do not have that knowledge, are making assumptions, or, are referencing a different age group when making comparisons.

.

I actually thought parents were worse when my kids were young. I remember finding that spot to watch a game where I could avoid certain parents. Probably wasn’t really worse, probably just the same though.

I would guess we deal with more parents than most people in baseball. We have run across a few real doozies, but for the most part I think today’s parents are fine. Many more good ones than bad IMO. It’s just that the bad ones are so darn memorable!

Perhaps if there’s a difference it is that these days people spend more money on baseball than they used to. When people pay for something they tend to be more involved in what happens. Rightfully so IMO, but most go about things the right way.

There are travel teams that cost a small fortune. Showcases, camps, recruiting services, instruction, and especially travel, can be costly too. It's hard to tell a parent they need to spend a small fortune and then sit back and shut up.

Since we have been involved with what we now do, 16-17 years, we have been involved with well over 100,000 young players. I would bet that I haven't ever communicated with over 99% of those parents (just a guess). Out of the others, some would cause problems and maybe a couple dozen were a complete pain in the arse. And yes, there were a couple that were downright dangerous.

The good thing about this and other message boards is that people can say what's on their mind (to an extent) without doing it in real life where their actions become more noticeable.

Good points PG!

I wonder if the over zealous parent is not as prevalent in the North due the fact the baseball season is so much shorter and parents don't have enough time to draw the line in the sand before the sand is covered with snow .

It has been our experience that parents are pretty much the same everywhere.

Some parents just want their kids last name spelled correctly? A good friend of mine and a solid baseball guy I know informed me that his once ranked college son was listed as an afterthought player with his name botched on Perfect website

Kid was a multiple freshman AA and CCBL Champ??

PG,
I am going to throw this out to you. Rankings and ratings are very important to parents. Perhaps as PG has grown, so have less complaints, for fear it might hurt their player.

Would you agree or disagree?

I don't have a problem with the level of involvement with today's parents. I wish my parents had gone to just one track meet or cared enough to make sure I was taking the right classes in high school. But that was the norm back then, and a whole generation was left wondering what could they have accomplished had their parents been more involved. I regard this increased involvement as a great measure of improved parenting.

As far as parents seeming to worry more, etc. I think what we are really seeing is parents that are better equipped to get answers to their questions so they ask them. Knowledge is power and with the Internet, it's very easy today to get that knowledge. The Internet is our community now. What might have been a question asked at a hardware store between two dads is now asked in a forum where hundreds will see and the experienced will answer. As I write this post, there are over 170 online with only 30 of those actually signed in members. If only one "unreasonable" parent posts, it's still only 1 in 170 parents.

I have no problem with parents being involved, they should be, but I think that this was about overinvolvement when it comes to sports. My folks were pretty involved in our lives when we were kids, but they kind of left things for us to figure out ourselves, like if you have a problem with a teacher, you try to figure it out with him/her, now parents head straight to the principal to complain that their child is not being treated fairly. This happens everyday.
When my son played in HS a group of parents took off to the principals office to get the coach removed, for nothing specific, they didn't like how he did things. Guess what, they are gone and he's still there.

When does being involved become being too involved? Is a parent questioning a coach's decision being involved or overinvolved, a parent asking for more playing time for his/her player? Is a parent going to the AD or principal with a coaching issue just being involved or overinvolved? It's good to ask questions, but it's better to let your players ask them, we as parents won't be around forever to help them work out issues.

I always thought that HS sports were extracurricular activities, but I think sometimes parents think it's another course their kids are taking that will go down on their report card with a grade.

30bombs,

It is understandable that all parents want their son’s name spelled correctly. Usually if we make a mistake like that, the parent will get in touch and politely ask us to correct the mistake.

The name you’re referring to was missing one letter and the article was just released. The mistake will be corrected by tomorrow. Not a soul on earth would get the name, the way it was spelled, confused with someone else.

The player was listed as that college team’s best position player for this year’s draft by Allan Simpson, if that was an afterthought I don’t know.

There was one letter omitted from an 11 letter last name and it didn't change the pronunciation one bit. He is a very good player who any dad would be very proud of. We are not perfect and apologize for the typo.

TPM,

To answer your question... I think the ratings/rankings actually create the most irate parents. They all handle it differently though. Some are very polite about things, some think we are stupid, some even post their feelings on a message board.

I hate rankings, but that is what we do.

Thanks for the reply, I would imagine that you get LOTS of calls on that stuff.

By the way, very nice of you to reply about the wrong spelling of the players name, but with 11 letters that can be understnadable.

I have 4 letters in my last name, no one can get it right even after you spell it to them, go try to figure that one out!

It definately can be a fine line between involvement with your child's development and interference with the team. I have been on both sides of the aisle as both a coach and as a parent watching so I know how frustrating an overzealous parent can be but I can also see that diligence may be necessary at times.

My son is at the 13 year old range where distractions can still take his head out of the game. I like to attend practices, especially early on, so I can make sure that he is participating properly and isn't being 'that kid' that disrupts practice by goofing off. He doesn't do it very often but I think my presence helps remind him that he is there to play baseball, to to wrestle or grab hats and run around.

But I agree that parents aren't coaches and shouldn't be telling coaches how to manage their kids. I have seen parents pull their kids off of teams because the coaches wouldn't play them in a certain position or because they feel the coach isn't 'treating' their child like the all star that they deserve. I've pretty much instructed my son that there is no 'bad' position in baseball and that he should be happy to play any position that the coach feels he will be good at.

I've never felt that parents at practice is a bad thing, as long as they remember that they are here to watch, not coach.

quote:

I wish my parents had gone to just one track meet or cared enough to make sure I was taking the right classes in high school. But that was the norm back then, and a whole generation was left wondering what could they have accomplished had their parents been more involved.

This is so true, at least for my wife and I. I graduated HS in '79, she in '80 -- that generation -- and we have both said this so many times. It wasn't that they didn't love us or were bad parents in any way, shape, or form. The overriding philosophy seems to have been "aw, leave 'em alone, they'll figure it out." However, if my parents HAD been more involved, with a stronger 'guiding hand', I never would have drifted off to Washington State University where I knew absolutely no one....until I met that future wife of mine

I don't think that most parents are over-involved concerning their higth school athlete.

There should be a coach/parent relationship concerning the game as much as the financial aspects of being on the team.

A coach should be able to explain where the athlete sits on the depth chart. How the various aspects of the game place him/her within the limits of the talent on the team.

Parents have to look out for the interest of their child. In placing them in an atmosphere where they can succeed or have the best opportunity to succeed is better in my view than leaving the athlete on a team where they are out-classed.

Student athletes oftentimes believe that they can 'win' their spots, even though the player they are trying to beat out is the next coming of a Hall of Famer. Kids don't want to give up or be called quitters, so a parent has to step in and take that rap in the interest of the child.

I have seen teams loaded with talent where players that were good got very little playing time. There is no value staying on a team when the coach tells you that your child is third string while in junior year.

I have seen parents decide to fight the good fight only to be let down and others decide to move their athlete to another school with a better opportunity. There are no guarantees, but all one can ask for is reasonable opportunity.

Coaches should be able to give the parent a realistic assessment of their child's opportunity for success and/or playing time.

There should be a coach/parent relationship concerning the game as much as the financial aspects of being on the team.
----------------------------------------------------

i think when you trust your kids with a $1000 laptop, $500 cell phone and nuerous expensive gadgets, or driving your $20,000 car. it's time to let them deal with the coach on there own, assuming there is no abuse involved.

i believe kids know where they stand in the pekin order, we as parents tend to round up so to speak.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
still there.

When does being involved become being too involved? Is a parent questioning a coach's decision being involved or overinvolved, a parent asking for more playing time for his/her player? Is a parent going to the AD or principal with a coaching issue just being involved or overinvolved? It's good to ask questions, but it's better to let your players ask them, we as parents won't be around forever to help them work out issues.

TPM, the things mentioned above are examples of over involvement IMO. Especially when all of the above applies to one parent, which I have seen.

An objective parent can see that his kid is not as good as the kid playing in front of him. An objective parent can see that his kid has gone 0-20 in the last 5 games and can understand why he doesn't start the next game. It would be better to have a discussion with the player than have on with the coach or AD, or program director. It's not always easy to be objective about your own kid but it only helps the kid in the long run. The more excuses we make for our players the better the chances of him being dissapointed down the road.

There is so very much to say on this topic. Some of the stories I have are both comical and sad. I'm sure you have your share as well. In my experience coaching/managing a youth travel baseball team with a high school coach we can sum it up into two problem areas that need to be taken care of up front to avoid the helicopter parent:

1) evaluating talent - most parents get it, other parents not so much. As a coach, if you can educate parents on their sons strengths, weaknesses, and development areas (document it) you are there. Also, I think as a coach, you need to reinforce the fact that it is a monarchy not a democracry. If they go to the AD, you have a document and stats, and it is going to be a short conversation between you and the AD.

2) Expectations and communication - constantly communicate expectatons with the player and the helicopter parent and make it the same message. In a lot of cases the non-helicopter parent will understand what you are doing.

These two areas worked for us, and I'm sure there are many other suggestions. The challenge with HS baseball versus travel is the number of parents, and their experience level. BTW...The most successful HS coaches in our area are the "old school" ones that take no ****. In most cases, the helicopter parent is not inclined to challenge them because there is NO open door policy even when they say there is one.

Okay coaches, would you say this to your team?:

"You guys are so bad you're embarrassing me, I don't want to coach this team anymore the way you are playing. Practice on Thursday is canceled"

Now this is not word for word, my recall of what our son said. Yes they did not play well, lost that game big time. This evidently was how he coached, was negative to most of the players including our son. His only good qualities was he allowed no cussing and expected you to hustle.Our son started every game so I certainly had no issues with him on playing time, just his negativity. We never approached this coach, he was old school with a closed door open door policy.

Any coach who would blame his failure to teach kids the game should not be coaching.

There are coaches who develop programs and have consistent records. These coaches can be winners, losers or midlle of the pack year after year. The team is a reflection of the coach.

A coach who does not adequately prepare his team to compete can only blame himself for such failure.

But blaming the kids, or the parents or the umpires is easier on the coach's ego.

This is easy (really laughing at myself for saying that).

As a parent, my job is to provide my son every opportunity to continue to improve the tools that make him a good baseball player. He has a goal of going on to play baseball in college so I am going to do everything I can to help him with that.

I told him as long as he has the drive and interest in continuing to pursue that goal, I will provide the means to help him improve (hitting coach, training, etc.) but in the end, he is the one doing all the work and it's up to him as to how far he can go.

Making his HS team has been the best thing that could have happened to him. I have seen him mature both mentally and physically more than I thought possible in a very short amount of time.

For Dad, it has also been very beneficial. Son making the HS team flipped a switch in my brain as well since this is a whole different level than we have experienced to date. Son was a late bloomer so travel ball hasn't been at the highest level (that all changes this summer as well). Even though it was years and years and years ago, I still recall my HS sports days. If my dad had called or visited (no email in the stone age) the coach of any of the HS teams I played on, I would have been mortified. Not about to do that to my son either.

I will speak to his coaches when and only when they talk to me. Period. My son will handle everything else. It doesn't matter if I don't like where he is in the batting order or I don't like the playing time he is getting. The important thing is, how does he feel about it and is he willing to make the effort to change those things.

I learned many life lessons playing HS sports and I don't want to deprive my son of doing the same. I still use those lessons learned every day and hopefully, my son uses the lessons he is learning to go on and be very successful in what ever he does after baseball.

When my son started JV ball I decided that I was not going to be one of those parents that sought to endear themselves to the coach. I made a point of calling him Coach, rather than "Bob" or the even more familiar "Bobby" that some parents used. I made a point of not calling him, or even talking to him, unless it was absolutely necessary. It wasn't easy, because he was, and is, a likeable guy, but Coach seemed more appropriate and more respectful.

When son got to HS ball I did they same thing. Of course, I did my share (and then some) of working the gate, concession stand, etc. After my work shifts were over I would retire to my lawn chair, way down the right field line, where I could share my coaching "expertise" with my wife, out of earshot from everyone else, and where I didn't have to listen to other parents moan and compain. ;-)

Son is now a college sophomore but my/our philosophy is still the same. I/we never call or e-mail the coaching staff. Never go out out of our way to talk to them. Don't call coaches by their first names. We talk when we run into each other, but never about son unless coach mentions him. Even then we just listen. Last night son's team had their pre-season banquet. My wife was stunned that the head coach came over and gave her a big hug. My son's explanation was "He likes y'all. Y'all don't care whether I play or not. Y'all just want the team to win."

Now it occurs to me that we have screwed up in reverse. By not trying to endear ourselves to son's coaches we have, in fact, endeared ourselves to son's coaches.

Go figure.

Now I can only speak for coaching youth and not HS but although overly involved parents may be a pain I still prefer them to severely under involved parents. I would much rather deal with a parent trying to tell me where to play their kid (that takes just a few minutes) than a kid I have to go get for games and practices, feed, and sometimes clothe. A few moments with whinny parents isn't as bad as the extreme other end of the spectrum.

It's wrong for parents to get directly involved with their kids in HS sports. The only involovement should be from the booster club to raise money for the players to cover expenses the school won't pick up or get them the extras the schools won't provide. There's no need for a parent/coach to be up the coach's rear for a kid's playing time. A parent hanging around the school for every practice has issues or no life.

When my kid played HS sports (He was a 2-sport athlete)I was a spectator and a supporter, that's it. The only interaction with the baseball HC was with the booster club, fundraisers and the yearly coaches/parent meeting after the final cuts and teams were picked. I never talked to coaches about playing time and my son would've never put up with me doing that. He was a big boy and could deal with it. That was his business, not ours as parents. It's kinda sickening the lengths parents go thru today to think they should be part of the action.

One time my kid got benched in a game against a division rival for missing a practice to take a college entrance exam. Even though he told the head coach and an assistant coach a week ahead of time and reminded them a couple days in advance. I thought the HC was out of line and the benching was pointless since my son handled his affairs appropriately, did the right thing and was one of their most productive offensive players with a great attitude but I stayed out of it and let my kid deal with it..He wound up playing the last 2 or 3 innings of that game. Nothing came of it and he started the next game.

quote:

I have been around the game for many moons at all levels but i have to tell you I have never seen parental involvement as excessive as it is currently

It used to be the parents showed up at games only and cheered and rooted for THE TEAM---now they want to attend practices, talk to the coaches about the batting order et cetc. If there is something they are unhappy with they have no compunction about calling or visiting the AD or the Principal.

You are a broken record. Random selections from a search of this website.

Helicopter Parents May 2008

PARENT FACTOR comment about player burnout. Nov 2005

A simple search of the word 'parent' in posts authored by TRhit reveals 180+ posts. Let's be fair. Not all of your posts about parents are surly & condescending towards the guardians of youth baseball players, but it is a familiar theme for you.

You run a service business. Your customers are the parents of baseball players. A servants spirit towards servicing your customers will very likely improve your interaction with many of these parents.

It is a sad state of affairs, but in our society now it is not prudent or responsible to drop your child off at the curb and drive away from baseball practice, dance class, kickball practice, etc...

quote:

It is a sad state of affairs, but in our society now it is not prudent or responsible to drop your child off at the curb and drive away from baseball practice, dance class, kickball practice, etc...

You might be confusing little league with high school sports. There's no need for parents to hanging around the school during HS practices.

quote:

I have been around the game for many moons at all levels but i have to tell you I have never seen parental involvement as excessive as it is currently

At our high school there are several baseball parents perpatually $ucking up to the coach. They use heading the booster club for access to the coach. The send their kid for lessons where the coach is the head of instruction. They approach him at any opportunity to talk baseball, or more specifically about their son.

We have three youth programs feeding into the middle school. By high school many of the parents are still in cliques quietly rooting against kids from the other youth programs so kids who came from their youth program can get more playing time.

The dads of the two best players on varsity this year have been ripped behind their backs for using politics to have their kids start as sophs when it was really all about talent. These two kids are now on top showcase teams.

Then there's The Jury. This is a group of rec coaches who think they know more than the baseball coach even though he played college ball, minor league ball and turned a perpetual loser into a contender. Imagine what it would be like if it was a losing situation.

I only talk to the coaching staff when approached. Otherwise I only say hello when we cross paths. When we talk I never discuss my son unless a coach mentions him first.

quote:

A coach should be able to explain where the athlete sits on the depth chart. How the various aspects of the game place him/her within the limits of the talent on the team.

There isn't a reason why a parent has to be involved in this conversation. This is a conversation for the coach to have with the player.

quote:

Student athletes often times believe that they can 'win' their spots, even though the player they are trying to beat out is the next coming of a Hall of Famer. Kids don't want to give up or be called quitters, so a parent has to step in and take that rap in the interest of the child.

I hope you're saying some parents think they need to do this, and not that they should.

There are times a parent should have a little perspective and provide it to their son rather than complaining. Last year my son complained he's a better shortstop than the kid playing the position. He was right. I told him to reality is the other player is a senior and he's not. I told him to be grateful he was given the opportunity earned another starting position as a soph.

quote:

Originally posted by Pop Up Hitter dad:
Okay coaches, would you say this to your team?:

"You guys are so bad you're embarrassing me, I don't want to coach this team anymore the way you are playing. Practice on Thursday is canceled"

Now this is not word for word, my recall of what our son said. Yes they did not play well, lost that game big time. This evidently was how he coached, was negative to most of the players including our son. His only good qualities was he allowed no cussing and expected you to hustle.Our son started every game so I certainly had no issues with him on playing time, just his negativity. We never approached this coach, he was old school with a closed door open door policy.

In the right frame of reference this could be very motivating. It should pi$$ off the players if they have any fire in them. I would expect the captains to call a mandatory practice, run it themselves and fire up the team.

Probably the only parent that irks me a little is the one who is all talk in Jan. and Feb. But June, July, Aug is nowhere to be found getting their kids to the ball park, clinics (free) or practices.