There aren't any children on high school and showcase teams. There are young men and budding young men. If they can't handle a conversation with a coach by the time they are sixteen they're already behind in interpersonal life skills.quote:It is a sad state of affairs, but in our society now it is not prudent or responsible to drop your child off at the curb and drive away from baseball practice, dance class, kickball practice, etc...
I new to this board but after reading some post I'm beginning to think I'm "overinvolved" just by being here and posting. I've only talked to my son's coach because it was a parent teacher conference and he happens to also be my son's PE teacher. I have gone to my son's practices when they were on a Saturday and had nothing else to do. My son didn't play alot last year and may not this year I don't know. The only thing I ever asked the coach is what does my son need to work on to get better. I've never questioned him about playing time. Last year I sat and watched a game with another dad who's son was playing even less than mine. We had discussed the playing time issue with each other and I knew he wasn't happy. Then the last inning he gets up and starts talking to the coach I didn't hear what was said at first. Then he starts screaming at the coach suddenly everyone is watching. The son who is a really good kid if not a good player tries to calm the dad down then they leave leaving equipment and stuff behind. I felt bad for the kid my son made sure to get all his stuff and took it to him. I have to admit I was proud of my kid because the other kids wanted to leave it behind and just made more fun of him. I somewhat understand the frustration of the Dad but he went way over the line. Supposedly the dad talked to the AD after that but the son still didn't play much and that coach isn't back this year.
quote:Originally posted by RJM:
In the right frame of reference this could be very motivating. It should pi$$ off the players if they have any fire in them. I would expect the captains to call a mandatory practice, run it themselves and fire up the team.
I think RJM as a valid point here. What we don't know is that maybe the coach has a prior engagement and would not be able to have practice that day. Instead of using a personal excuse he used the skipped practice as a motivational tool for the players
This is where gossip from parents/fans and even web based message boards often behave much like the old game of "Telephone" where an initial message is given and then passed down the line to many people. As the message moves along it becomes scrambled, misinterpreted, or depending on the mood of one of listeners, it is changed to satisfy a different persons agenda. Conversations that leave the circle of intended listeners can be very dangerous as they move along person to person IMO.
Try this sometime when you have a group of people together. As a facilitator I use this with groups that have a hard time listening. Write a paragraph describing a situation that has detail involved. Whisper that paragraph (only once) to the person next to you. They in turn whisper (only once) what they heard to the next. Continues the process to the end of the line. The last person in line then says the message aloud. The results will be an eye opener.
My rule of thumb when I hear gossip is to act as the "broken link" and keep it to myself.
I know that a coach telling his team that they are an embarrassment and he doesnt want to coach them anymore can really blow these kids minds.
However, when I was a young 18yr old in Marine boot camp and the DI used this tactic it's amazing to see who the leaders are all of a sudden. They step up and corral the others to start doing their best. I'm not sure this tactic is something a HS coach should use because I'm sure the School Administrators wouldn't put up with it long. But I could see a college coach on any level doing it. It's a great way to motivate players and see who really wants to be there and who doesn't. IMO
My son wants to be a HS teacher and baseball coach more than anything else. It has been his dream and goal for many years. But I cringe at the over-zealous parents I've seen over the years. Some have been downright embarrassing to watch...even painful. I watched it last year at one of my son's JUCO games between a doubleheader. I wanted to run because I was just happen to be close and watch. I think fenwaysouth has some very good advise on how to, as Barney Fife use to say and "nip it in the bud", is set early parameters and keep valid notes for when "that day" comes. And we all know that day will come!
However, when I was a young 18yr old in Marine boot camp and the DI used this tactic it's amazing to see who the leaders are all of a sudden. They step up and corral the others to start doing their best. I'm not sure this tactic is something a HS coach should use because I'm sure the School Administrators wouldn't put up with it long. But I could see a college coach on any level doing it. It's a great way to motivate players and see who really wants to be there and who doesn't. IMO
My son wants to be a HS teacher and baseball coach more than anything else. It has been his dream and goal for many years. But I cringe at the over-zealous parents I've seen over the years. Some have been downright embarrassing to watch...even painful. I watched it last year at one of my son's JUCO games between a doubleheader. I wanted to run because I was just happen to be close and watch. I think fenwaysouth has some very good advise on how to, as Barney Fife use to say and "nip it in the bud", is set early parameters and keep valid notes for when "that day" comes. And we all know that day will come!
A couple of good points made IMO;
As "Boomers" our Parents were largely uninvolved in what we did. Now, we Boomer age parents make it a point to know what our kids are doing and we are involved... it is somewhat a sign of better parenting. Times change.
I don't agree, however, that parents should "meddle" in Sports at any level, but for sure by High School. An earlier poster hit it on the head; the Coach and the Athletic Department can set guidelines that effectively minimize that from occuring, OR by their lack of oversight can exacerbate the problem. Parents need to learn to butt out at this level as they will never have any input beyond this level anyway!
Example, in our 5th yr at our High School now; A Parent/Coach meetings, attended by AD or his assistant, are always held for each team where guidelines are set: "High School Sports aren't "pay to play," The Coaching Staff (Parents NO LONGER can be involved) determine the Roster, starting players and playing time." All of which are items NOT TO BE DISCUSSED, addressed with the Coach(es) by ANY parent. If a playing time issue needs discussed, that conversation can only occur between the player and the Head Coach.
If that doesn't satisfy your question then you can go to the Athletic Department that WILL, support their coaching staff decisions.
There is some complaining among the "disgruntled" from time to time, but it doesn't gain any momentum!
The Head Coach of any good Travel Team we've been associated with, headed off that issue via Pre-Season meetings, in very much the same manner! So Coaches, got a problem with Parents perhaps you need to direct the ship more sternly!
As "Boomers" our Parents were largely uninvolved in what we did. Now, we Boomer age parents make it a point to know what our kids are doing and we are involved... it is somewhat a sign of better parenting. Times change.
I don't agree, however, that parents should "meddle" in Sports at any level, but for sure by High School. An earlier poster hit it on the head; the Coach and the Athletic Department can set guidelines that effectively minimize that from occuring, OR by their lack of oversight can exacerbate the problem. Parents need to learn to butt out at this level as they will never have any input beyond this level anyway!
Example, in our 5th yr at our High School now; A Parent/Coach meetings, attended by AD or his assistant, are always held for each team where guidelines are set: "High School Sports aren't "pay to play," The Coaching Staff (Parents NO LONGER can be involved) determine the Roster, starting players and playing time." All of which are items NOT TO BE DISCUSSED, addressed with the Coach(es) by ANY parent. If a playing time issue needs discussed, that conversation can only occur between the player and the Head Coach.
If that doesn't satisfy your question then you can go to the Athletic Department that WILL, support their coaching staff decisions.
There is some complaining among the "disgruntled" from time to time, but it doesn't gain any momentum!
The Head Coach of any good Travel Team we've been associated with, headed off that issue via Pre-Season meetings, in very much the same manner! So Coaches, got a problem with Parents perhaps you need to direct the ship more sternly!
Preteen youth coaches focus on skills and overlook two very important parts of the game. They overlook the mental aspect for the players and teaching parents to be sports parents. Rules of engagement for parents can start in the preteen years.quote:I think fenwaysouth has some very good advise on how to, as Barney Fife use to say and "nip it in the bud
It is possible to be overly involved.
It's also possible to be less involved than you should be.
Somewhere in between there is a happy medium. I'm still trying to find it, but getting better...
It's also possible to be less involved than you should be.
Somewhere in between there is a happy medium. I'm still trying to find it, but getting better...
RJM
"Rules of engagement for parents can start in the preteen years."
It should aslo start with a link to this web site Web
"Rules of engagement for parents can start in the preteen years."
It should aslo start with a link to this web site Web
quote:Originally posted by CADad:
And I think Chris Lincecum is a prime example of how overinvolvement can ruin a kid's chances. OK, OK, he probably did hurt his son's chances in some ways, but he also helped in others.
Sure, most of us need to stay out of it and our kids will thank us, but there are also some situations out there such as overuse, and in rare cases situations that are simply untenable where a parent needs to step in and get the kid out of there. Did Joe Montana do something wrong when he transferred his kid from DeLaSalle? It would have been a real character builder for the kid to have stayed there as a backup. The reality however was that he was better served by going somewhere where he could start.
In other words, while keeping one's nose out of it and spending extra time in the concession stand and doing fieldwork is certainly good advice, each and every situation is different and there are times when it doesn't apply. The tough part for most parents is knowing where to draw the line.
CADad, this may be your best ever post. There is a lot of sage advise here.
There was one commonality about all the kids in my son's area that did well.. they had fathers that were there--yes, many times at practices--supporting their kid, maybe even learning themselves along the way. None of these dads were over-the-top and none of them ever questioned the coach's authority.
The "uninvolved" dads would just drop their kids off, usually sit in the stands way to the back, and grumble when their kid didn't get any playing time.
So like CA Dad says: "The tough part for most parents is knowing where to draw the line."
quote:Did Joe Montana do something wrong when he transferred his kid from DeLaSalle?
I would say not as long as the the decision to transfer was the player's decision based on discussions he had with his coach and both came to the conclusion that playing time would be at a minimum unless he transferred. If Joe was paying the tuition, then he likely has to be involved in the transfer process. If Joe was calling all the shots, then he's doing the kid a disservice by daddy being there to bail out junior when tough decisions need to be made.
My son is currently weighing out decisions in college on his career path. The grades are up there and is on the deans list so he's got options on how he should move forward in his major. He laid those options out on the table for me because of the financials involved. All I can do is suggest he gather as much information as possible so that he can make an educated decision and maybe I can add some input based on that information but at the end of the day, it's gonna be up to him because it's his future and career.
This is where cutting the apron strings in high school start to show up.
There are dads who may appear uninvolved in the high school experience who are doing a lot of work with their kids away from the team or are getting them all the right training. We have a situation at our high school I hoped to help remedy that turned out to be too far out of control. So I'll quietly watch from a distance with another dad.quote:The "uninvolved" dads would just drop their kids off, usually sit in the stands way to the back, and grumble when their kid didn't get any playing time.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
I have no problem with parents being involved, they should be, but I think that this was about overinvolvement when it comes to sports. My folks were pretty involved in our lives when we were kids, but they kind of left things for us to figure out ourselves, like if you have a problem with a teacher, you try to figure it out with him/her, now parents head straight to the principal to complain that their child is not being treated fairly. This happens everyday.
When my son played in HS a group of parents took off to the principals office to get the coach removed, for nothing specific, they didn't like how he did things. Guess what, they are gone and he's still there.
When does being involved become being too involved? Is a parent questioning a coach's decision being involved or overinvolved, a parent asking for more playing time for his/her player? Is a parent going to the AD or principal with a coaching issue just being involved or overinvolved? It's good to ask questions, but it's better to let your players ask them, we as parents won't be around forever to help them work out issues.
I always thought that HS sports were extracurricular activities, but I think sometimes parents think it's another course their kids are taking that will go down on their report card with a grade.
By high school parents shouldn't even be questioning teachers about grades if the student hasn't already tried to resolve the issues. I just read somewhere this week that employers are starting to hear from parents! These are college graduates starting a job that have moms or dads calling their new bosses to clarify wages, paperwork issues, etc. Unbelievable.
There was a segment on 60 minutes on these kids. They are called "millennials" http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=3486473n
They need constant reassurance and praise, they have no loyalty to a company and Mom calls work if their raise is inadequate. They come from the generation of everyone must feel good whether you win or lose.
Fascinating segment, but not every 20 yr. can be painted with a broad brush.
They need constant reassurance and praise, they have no loyalty to a company and Mom calls work if their raise is inadequate. They come from the generation of everyone must feel good whether you win or lose.
Fascinating segment, but not every 20 yr. can be painted with a broad brush.
quote:sandlotmom quote:
By high school parents shouldn't even be questioning parents about grades if the student hasn't already tried to resolve the issues.
Couldn't agree more. I didn't go to a parent teacher conference after 2nd grade for any of my kids because I thought it was unfair that a kid had to sit in on an adult discussion about him/her without having the ability to rebute the allegations. At the beginning of each year I did stop in and tell the teachers that, and exchange e-mail addresses if they needed to talk about something.
I suppose it would be hard to let go if you do not know, or completely trust those in charge. I was in a different boat. I've lived in the same neighborhood since 1957, my kids had a couple of the same teachers I had in Elementary school, I golf, fish, play softball, basketball, and cards with many of the middle and HS teachers, and years ago I babysat the HS principle. I snicker when kids talk about "my hood"....they have no idea.
Having parents involved in the workplace as a mouthpiece for their college grads or adult children getting out there on their own is a first for me. I never thought it ever going that far let alone thinking about that happening, period.
But then there's always been nepotism in getting relatives sweet govt. jobs so I guess it is what it is.
But then there's always been nepotism in getting relatives sweet govt. jobs so I guess it is what it is.
quote:Originally posted by rz1:
I've lived in the same neighborhood since 1957, my kids had a couple of the same teachers I had in Elementary school, I golf, fish, play softball, basketball, and cards with many of the middle and HS teachers, and years ago I babysat the HS principle. I snicker when kids talk about "my hood"....they have no idea.
RZ, that is so cool. Most of us can't leave our hometown fast enough, only to realize later that we'd LOVE to be able to live there again. You've raise your kids in an environment that you are completely familiar with - what a blessing!
Over involvement? There are very few parent that are overly involved with their children. What I think we're really talking about is "improper involvement" --- primarily from a coaching point of view. Depending on the age of the player, coaching and parenting share some common ground with the younger players. Parents welcome coaches into that common ground while coaches, especially the insecure ones, don't want parents involved. Sorry .... good parents WILL become involved with their sons. Good coaches and good parents seem to exist in harmony. Bad coaches and bad parents can't get along with anyone.
Fungo
Fungo
quote:Originally posted by Fungo:
Over involvement? There are very few parent that are overly involved with their children. What I think we're really talking about is "improper involvement"
And batting Clean-up.................Fungo
That was great Fungo
quote:It used to be the parents showed up at games only and cheered and rooted for THE TEAM---now they want to attend practices, talk to the coaches about the batting order et cetc. If there is something they are unhappy with they have no compunction about calling or visiting the AD or the Principal.
Minority
I would say those parents are the vast majority that I have had over the years. They come to the games and cheer for the team. They support the program any way they can. And they are a pleasure to talk to and get to know. I value the relationships I have with all my former hs players parents.
I welcome the parents to be a part of their sons HS experience. When I have a field day I tell all the players to tell their dad to come along and work on the field with us. And I tell them to have mom cook us something for lunch and bring it by. Its very common for us to have moms bring something for after the games or for the ride home on the bus.
You only get to go through this one time with your kid. I want to build a family type of environment. Everyone is part of the team and that includes the parents of our players. They know that I am going to play to win and I am going to help their kid anyway I can to be the best player and team mate he can be. And they know that I dont tell them how to do their job so they dont tell me how to do mine.
I throw bp to my players siblings after games. I bring them in the dugout after games. And many times they come on the field after games and run the bags. I walk over to the fence and talk to all the parents and say hello. Does every parent of every kid who plays for me like me? I doubt it. But the ones that do shouldnt be deprived of having a relationship with their sons hs coach just because there is one a** hole out there. Let him be unhappy and miserable. No need for everyone to be.
Be as much of a part of this stuff as you can. Enjoy every single moment of it. Leave the playing time issues and the batting order out of it and just enjoy seeing your son out there with his fellow team mates. It will all work out. Most of the time kids are happy and enjoying themselves and then someone comes along and tells them they shouldnt be happy. There is much more good going on than bad in all of this.
I welcome the parents to be a part of their sons HS experience. When I have a field day I tell all the players to tell their dad to come along and work on the field with us. And I tell them to have mom cook us something for lunch and bring it by. Its very common for us to have moms bring something for after the games or for the ride home on the bus.
You only get to go through this one time with your kid. I want to build a family type of environment. Everyone is part of the team and that includes the parents of our players. They know that I am going to play to win and I am going to help their kid anyway I can to be the best player and team mate he can be. And they know that I dont tell them how to do their job so they dont tell me how to do mine.
I throw bp to my players siblings after games. I bring them in the dugout after games. And many times they come on the field after games and run the bags. I walk over to the fence and talk to all the parents and say hello. Does every parent of every kid who plays for me like me? I doubt it. But the ones that do shouldnt be deprived of having a relationship with their sons hs coach just because there is one a** hole out there. Let him be unhappy and miserable. No need for everyone to be.
Be as much of a part of this stuff as you can. Enjoy every single moment of it. Leave the playing time issues and the batting order out of it and just enjoy seeing your son out there with his fellow team mates. It will all work out. Most of the time kids are happy and enjoying themselves and then someone comes along and tells them they shouldnt be happy. There is much more good going on than bad in all of this.
Before the HS season started, my son's coach had a parents meeting. He talked about his team rules for parents...which were very simple and easy to remember...
1-parents are not allowed to talk to or coach their kids during the game. If they do and the coach catches it, he'll remove the player so he can sit in the stands and talk for the rest of the game.
2-coach won't talk to parents after the game other than to give a simple greeting. The reason...he's still focused on the game and his players. Happier than he should be if they win, more mad than he should be if they lose.
3-coach will not talk to a parent about the son's playing time...period. He'll talk to the player about it all day long. If the parent wants to know, he/she should talk to the son about it.
Three simple rules and it seems to control parent behavior very nicely. I don't know this to be the case because I've never talked to the AD, but I'm sure the coach discussed the approach with the AD in advance to make sure he had his 100% support. I'm sure it won't be a surprise to you that he coached in college for a long time.
A lot of parents now are just like teenagers. They push the limit to see what they can get away with. As soon as they know, they back off. The problem is too many let them get away with it and never set the limit.
1-parents are not allowed to talk to or coach their kids during the game. If they do and the coach catches it, he'll remove the player so he can sit in the stands and talk for the rest of the game.
2-coach won't talk to parents after the game other than to give a simple greeting. The reason...he's still focused on the game and his players. Happier than he should be if they win, more mad than he should be if they lose.
3-coach will not talk to a parent about the son's playing time...period. He'll talk to the player about it all day long. If the parent wants to know, he/she should talk to the son about it.
Three simple rules and it seems to control parent behavior very nicely. I don't know this to be the case because I've never talked to the AD, but I'm sure the coach discussed the approach with the AD in advance to make sure he had his 100% support. I'm sure it won't be a surprise to you that he coached in college for a long time.
A lot of parents now are just like teenagers. They push the limit to see what they can get away with. As soon as they know, they back off. The problem is too many let them get away with it and never set the limit.
I don't understand why some parents don't realize that their improper involvement (good description!)is actually hurting their sons and daughters. On the field or off, if you don't teach your child by the age of 16 to talk to coaches, teachers and bosses on their own, you deprive them of a necessary step toward adulthood.
You don't have to leave them out there on their own to do that. Sidearm Son was taught how to approach a coach or teacher when things weren't going well(never complain without also offering a solution and all that). In the early days we role-played and then later, he'd ask me a quick question on the best way to phrase a request. Now he doesn't even tell us when he has an issue with a teacher or a coach. He just handles it. He's going off to college in the Fall, likely 4.5 hours away and I have absolutely no worries that he'll be fine on his own. It's easier for everyone to do it for them, but it makes it harder for them later on. It saddens me that he will not need us anymore, but it also means that I have done my job.
You don't have to leave them out there on their own to do that. Sidearm Son was taught how to approach a coach or teacher when things weren't going well(never complain without also offering a solution and all that). In the early days we role-played and then later, he'd ask me a quick question on the best way to phrase a request. Now he doesn't even tell us when he has an issue with a teacher or a coach. He just handles it. He's going off to college in the Fall, likely 4.5 hours away and I have absolutely no worries that he'll be fine on his own. It's easier for everyone to do it for them, but it makes it harder for them later on. It saddens me that he will not need us anymore, but it also means that I have done my job.
Another angle on this subject are the parents who absolutely must be an assistant coach on whatever travel team their kid is on. And I'm not talking some run of the mill travel team but very high level ones. I know a few dads who fit this bill and their kids are excellent players going to top college programs next year but they had to insert themselves into the coaching ranks on every team and not to be of any assistance to the team in general mind you, but only to oversee their own kid's performance.
What I wonder about now that this group is going to college next year is how these kids will fare when daddy is no longer in the dugout? Will these kids have the mental toughness (and the necessary tools) to deal with the adversity that is part of the next level?
What I wonder about now that this group is going to college next year is how these kids will fare when daddy is no longer in the dugout? Will these kids have the mental toughness (and the necessary tools) to deal with the adversity that is part of the next level?
quote:Originally posted by sandlotmom:
By high school parents shouldn't even be questioning teachers about grades if the student hasn't already tried to resolve the issues. I just read somewhere this week that employers are starting to hear from parents! These are college graduates starting a job that have moms or dads calling their new bosses to clarify wages, paperwork issues, etc. Unbelievable.
They are probably the same parents who called the college administrators when their kids were having issues.
Now that is just crazy!
The 60 minute piece very interesting.
Coach May, I can really appreciate your perspective on allowing parents be involved during their son's high school years. For many of these players high school ball is all they'll have and it really should be a memorable experience.
I remember whenever we'd have field/lockerroom work days I would simply go to the field, find a couple of dads I knew and work all day till the job was done. It was always a pleasure for me to improve or help maintain the field for our boys to play on. I miss those days.
I remember when son was a 9th grader I noticed this one day who always sat away from everyone else. About 1/2 way through the season I went and asked him why he didnt come over and sit with the other parents and he just looked at me and said, "one day you'll find out why". He wasn't mean about it, just matter of factly.
But the time son was a Junior, I was up on the right field hill by myself smoking my cigars every game. By then I KNEW what he meant! The petty jealousies and bad mouthing was all I could take.
I remember whenever we'd have field/lockerroom work days I would simply go to the field, find a couple of dads I knew and work all day till the job was done. It was always a pleasure for me to improve or help maintain the field for our boys to play on. I miss those days.
I remember when son was a 9th grader I noticed this one day who always sat away from everyone else. About 1/2 way through the season I went and asked him why he didnt come over and sit with the other parents and he just looked at me and said, "one day you'll find out why". He wasn't mean about it, just matter of factly.
But the time son was a Junior, I was up on the right field hill by myself smoking my cigars every game. By then I KNEW what he meant! The petty jealousies and bad mouthing was all I could take.
YGD, I second your opinion on Coach May. I sure wish our son had such a nice coach. He does it the right way and still motivates his players. By letting parents get involved and not being standoffish they feel better about the team and coach. By the end of son's senior year, he had enough of his HS coach's BS.
There is another side to this story that needs to be told. If it weren't for involved parents quality youth sports would vanish. I played little league back in the early 50's and it was coached by an involved parent. I played high school baseball in the late 50's and it was coached by an involved parent. We have a great youth baseball complex in Jackson Tennessee --- because of involved parents. Perfect Game (many give credit to PG for their son's success) is TOTALLY dependent on the involved parent for their survival. Youth baseball as we know it today MUST HAVE involved parents to survive!!!
Fungo
Fungo
quote:Originally posted by Fungo:
There is another side to this story that needs to be told. If it weren't for involved parents quality youth sports would vanish. I played little league back in the early 50's and it was coached by an involved parent. I played high school baseball in the late 50's and it was coached by an involved parent. We have a great youth baseball complex in Jackson Tennessee --- because of involved parents. Perfect Game (many give credit to PG for their son's success) is TOTALLY dependent on the involved parent for their survival. Youth baseball as we know it today MUST HAVE involved parents to survive!!!
Fungo
Nice post Fungo!
This topic comes up here all the time. I think if people are trying to pull strings behind the scenes to innur some type of benefit for their own, then it is indeed going too far. For those who are contributing by coaching or helping with concessions or helping with bettering the program in many ways then I salute you. There is also a time to step back and let the chips fall where they may. Trust that the coach will make the right decisions even when he does not and then have the grace to trust that things will work out the way they ought to in the end.
My favorite quote in this thread was by MTH:
quote:Now it occurs to me that we have screwed up in reverse. By not trying to endear ourselves to son's coaches we have, in fact, endeared ourselves to son's coaches.
.
Ahhh...those were the days weren't they PG ?!
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quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
I actually thought parents were worse when my kids were young.
Ahhh...those were the days weren't they PG ?!
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I think there is a role for parents to play in the success of a high school team, but I think the problem is, a lot of parents don't understand or can't accept that role. We started a new "C" team for 7th and 8th grade this year, and Coach has said that they have been the biggest PIA, actually calling him on the phone even before try-outs took place...but I digress...
I coached my son from the time he started t-ball through last summer where we finished the season as a top 10 ranked 14U team by PG. But regardless of the success of this team (coached by three dads...very knowlegeable, but dads none-the-less) we knew, my son and myself, that it was time to move on. For his growth and development as a ballplayer, it was time for dads to be out of the dugout...so, we made our move to a showcase program and are pleased with our decision.
As for myself, I am still very active...I do PA and the website for the high school team. I converse with the coach on a regular basis...we have a good relationship...HOWEVER, I can recall perhaps maybe ONCE in the years he's been playing where we've actually talked specifically about my son, and in that case the coach brought it up and was asking me questions...outside of that, we don't talk specifically about the team, I don't try to give him input about it, and when we do talk baseball it's usually about college or MLB...usually we talk about hunting.
I understand my role...and I think that's why he trusts me...I guess he know's I'm "safe", if that's the right term for it...when I was coaching, I had input...but as far as high school and his showcase team, it's his game now. And with the exception of a push every once in a while from the home front, and $$$ support, it's his business...and fortunately, he's always been able to take care of it on the field.
Wow, didn't realize I was going to ramble that much when I started typing this!
I coached my son from the time he started t-ball through last summer where we finished the season as a top 10 ranked 14U team by PG. But regardless of the success of this team (coached by three dads...very knowlegeable, but dads none-the-less) we knew, my son and myself, that it was time to move on. For his growth and development as a ballplayer, it was time for dads to be out of the dugout...so, we made our move to a showcase program and are pleased with our decision.
As for myself, I am still very active...I do PA and the website for the high school team. I converse with the coach on a regular basis...we have a good relationship...HOWEVER, I can recall perhaps maybe ONCE in the years he's been playing where we've actually talked specifically about my son, and in that case the coach brought it up and was asking me questions...outside of that, we don't talk specifically about the team, I don't try to give him input about it, and when we do talk baseball it's usually about college or MLB...usually we talk about hunting.
I understand my role...and I think that's why he trusts me...I guess he know's I'm "safe", if that's the right term for it...when I was coaching, I had input...but as far as high school and his showcase team, it's his game now. And with the exception of a push every once in a while from the home front, and $$$ support, it's his business...and fortunately, he's always been able to take care of it on the field.
Wow, didn't realize I was going to ramble that much when I started typing this!
In my line of work, parents are not involved enough!
It really boils down to two things:
1. There is a fine line between parenting and posturing (et,al)
2. Perspective
I have had my fair share of "that" parent. But, I have been over-involved and improperly-involved (Thanks Fungo
), even not-involved. At every point, I felt I was doing the best for my son. In the end, it really doesn't matter. Kids are still kids, parents are still parents, and coaches are still coaches, and.... baseball is still baseball. For me, every battle I felt was vital, as my perspective changes(ed), so did my involvement!
GED10DaD
It really boils down to two things:
1. There is a fine line between parenting and posturing (et,al)
2. Perspective
I have had my fair share of "that" parent. But, I have been over-involved and improperly-involved (Thanks Fungo
GED10DaD
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When I played 30 years ago, I don't remember the parents being as involved as they are today (perhaps it was because I was oblivious to those things at that age).
Today, it does seem that parents are much more involved, more critical of coaching, and second guessing the coaching staff more frequently. A good high school coach will be able to squelch some but not all of this extraneous noise and a good coach is worth his/her weight in gold (imo).
Today, it does seem that parents are much more involved, more critical of coaching, and second guessing the coaching staff more frequently. A good high school coach will be able to squelch some but not all of this extraneous noise and a good coach is worth his/her weight in gold (imo).
quote:Originally posted by Fungo:
There is another side to this story that needs to be told. If it weren't for involved parents quality youth sports would vanish. I played little league back in the early 50's and it was coached by an involved parent. I played high school baseball in the late 50's and it was coached by an involved parent. We have a great youth baseball complex in Jackson Tennessee --- because of involved parents. Perfect Game (many give credit to PG for their son's success) is TOTALLY dependent on the involved parent for their survival. Youth baseball as we know it today MUST HAVE involved parents to survive!!!
Fungo
There's no question that without parent in volvement with youth sports, there'd be no quality organizations for kids to play in. Kids today get to play in nice venues, have fancy uniforms with their names on them and have the best equipment. It never was like that years ago. The tradeoff for that of course is less kids going off on their own and forming their own teams and leagues and playing on their own like we did when we were kids. No parent involvement. And even then, the best kids were always picked first and teams would fight over who got stuck with the spaz.
However, since the focus in this topic is at the the high school level, parents need to back off and let the kids deal with their coaches on the playing field. Whether they're good coaches or lousy ones. There has to be some parental involvement at the HS level but it's all off the field stuff or anything pertaining to school. It's no different in that a parent don't storm into a kid's HS math class and start on the teacher on how little Johnny don't get the method of teaching. There's conferences for that stuff at a given date and time. Usually, a coach has a beginning of season parent meetiing to lay out the ground rules. A parent can't be going to a HS coach demanding playing time for their kid. By time they're in high school, there's no excuse for a kid not to deal with this stuff without mom and dad breathing down their necks.
Another thing I see I don't believe existed when I played is now a lot of parents are experts at judging talent. They're not afraid to openly criticize players on the team openly to parents during the game and to their sons afterwards.quote:Today, it does seem that parents are much more involved, more critical of coaching, and second guessing the coaching staff more frequently.
I'll be down the right field line with a friend. We've already set odds on which parent's heads pop off and at what point in the season.
By far the best player/parent agreement contract that I have ever seen drawn up. One of my former players, Coach Miller drew this up when I helped him run our local Winchester Post 21 program from 2005-2007 and he had NO issues with the parents.
Coach Miller had a $200 fee BUT when you review what was covered, the kids got the $200 bucks back and then some as we traveled to 3 tournaments and hotels were covered for all.
It was a very enjoyable summer(s) for all!
Wanted to share and please share with others:
Winchester Post 21 Player/Parent agreement Contract
Coach Miller had a $200 fee BUT when you review what was covered, the kids got the $200 bucks back and then some as we traveled to 3 tournaments and hotels were covered for all.
It was a very enjoyable summer(s) for all!
Wanted to share and please share with others:
Winchester Post 21 Player/Parent agreement Contract
Call me old school but I don't believe in contracts-
if the player has faith in the program and is committed why make them sign a contract--I am not even sure of the legalities of such a contract---a hand shake is more than enough for me
if the player has faith in the program and is committed why make them sign a contract--I am not even sure of the legalities of such a contract---a hand shake is more than enough for me
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
Call me old school but I don't believe in contracts-
if the player has faith in the program and is committed why make them sign a contract--I am not even sure of the legalities of such a contract---a hand shake is more than enough for me
Since Coach Miller had no Athletic Director or Administration to support him. The contract did and it was some of the best summers of coaching that I've ever been associated with.
Why ... the parent's understood the guidelines and we did not have a red*a*s*s society in the stands.
I can tell you one thing, it worked for Coach Miller and he had ZERO complaints/issues from the parents.
It's 2010 now, times have changed ... so the coaches have to make a few adjustments as well to a certain degree.
One thing about contracts--they not break proof---and if the player/parents breaks the contract what is your recourse?--to sue them?
I still believe in the handshake while looking eye to eye---if that doesn't work the player/parent isn't worth having around
I still believe in the handshake while looking eye to eye---if that doesn't work the player/parent isn't worth having around