Pardon me while I rant / vent

"Being negative is easy. Being destructive is easy and neither one accomplishes anything worthwhile. "

Very true.  

I wish coaches would realize this.  

You are absolutely correct.

The classic line I heard from a parent was at a 14u travel soccer game. Keep in mind the dad never played soccer. The coach played in college.

"I don't care what the coach said. Do what I tell you to do."

The coach heard him. He yanked the kid forplaying out of position defensively.

I had to suffer with this dad for three years (two kids) of high school baseball. He also thought he was a great baseball coach. He never coached past 11/12 rec ball.

coach2709 wrote... "Since when do parents think they have ANY business near the dugout, bench area or anywhere near the team / coaches area before, during or after a competition?????"  

Looks like the coach/team/school has lost control.  Once one parent sees another do it, they will. Curious if it is expressed to the players/players parents before the season or what other steps are taken to "train" the parents to stay away from the players pre/during/post game.  Or is it just assumed?  Culture is hard to instill.  

I'm a dad, not a coach.  My son avoids me like I'm homeless as soon as we pull into the parking lot.  (unless he wants money for something)  That "training" was by his select coaches, starting at about 12.  It was done some directly to the parents, but mostly through the kids.

By the wordcount of your post, you're pissed!

I think the coach needs to control his dugout area but I highly doubt that is the root problem. Parents don't need to be there, shouldn't be welcome and certainly not allowed. The message obviously needs to be done the right way so you get positive results. Most of the post, while I pretty much agree with it completely, indicates lack of organizational structure, unclear expectations and failure to correct a small problem before it becomes a big problem.

This is obviously an uninformed opinion based off one mans comments but a mandatory meeting with players and parents setting clear lines of unacceptable behavior may go along way to helping restore structure. Keep in mind it may get worse before it gets better but it will never get better if you don't create some kind of a systematic change...for what it is worth!!

One of the best lines on this topic was in a local newspaper as a legendary coach retired after something like 30+ years coaching one of the best HS teams in our area in CA - Gary Cunningham, Bellarmine Prep...

Asked, 'Do you plan to attend games after your retirement?'

Answered, 'Why yes, I think I'm going to sit right up there in the stands where I understand the very best coaches sit!' 

What's the first line of the love story theme?  "Where do I begin..."  Lol. Like most coaches who coach first then stop coaching due to having children to raise I have been on both sides of this fence.  I was married to sports/coaching in my 20's and early 30's.  Didn't have my first til 34. So that's a lot of years coaching without really understanding parents and parenting.  For the years after parenting I would always invite parents to hang around the dugout if they wished.  Join us for the post game.  Come to the gym and observe practice.  Sit behind the bench for games.  I am a true believer that I should not say anything to their kids I don't want them to hear. Also I would like to think I do have some knowledge to give.  Perhaps some parents will learn something.  Maybe next time their kid goes here when they were supposed to go there the parent will know from observing practice.  I have coached kids of coaches and always have talked with them to see if there was something I could learn. Same with kids of former pros.  It's an exchange.  This is not the CIA.  And in reality when you are open and inviting most parents stay away!

When my kid was 9 I expected the coach to be open and inviting....at High School level I expect the coach to know my kids name but not mine.  He isn't MY coach, it isn't MY team, and I don't understand the parents who think they have a bigger role in all this other than to drive the car and write the checks, but I think I am in the minority. 

I've mentioned this many times on here, I am not a HS coach.  My wife is an administrator in the school district my kid currently attends.  She has held many administrative positions over the years. A few years back she was the AP at the JrHS my son attended.  Kinda a bummer for him, but he worked through it.  

Anyway, her first year there we were at my sons football game (he played for the JrH).  First game of the season, a parent walks out onto the field and starts coaching the kids.  Moving them around into the gaps and telling them how to run their defense.  It was easy to tell that this was a parent as the team and coaches were on the other side of the field.  I looked at my wife with disbelief.  She walked over to the coaches to talk to them.  Something she normally would never do during a game.  Comes back over to our side walks right up to the father and asks to speak to him off to the side.  The father responds with, "after I get them setup for this play".  My wife, not one to mince words, looks at the father and explains to him, "if you don't remove yourself from the field right now, I will have you removed from the premises and place a trespass warning against you".  Needless to say the father was not happy.  

My wife take him off to the side and explains to him, in no uncertain terms, that this was not his team and if he wished to coach he was free to work with one of the local youth programs that runs football programs up through the 8th grade (for the parents that think JrHS football is not good enough for their kids).  She also explained that if we intruded onto the field again she would have him removed from the premises.  Lets just say he was not happy.  He storms off muttering something along the lines of women not understanding sports and using the "you don't know who I am line".

Wife shows up to school the next day, the principal (started half-way through the previous year) asks her about the game as she has a vm on her phone number from an angry parent.  Wife goes on to explain the story to her.  The principal calls up the parent and asks for a meeting.  Parent thinks he was hot sh$! because he coached a youth team that he claims "was associated with the High School".  No such thing, they used the HS mascot as their mascot and paid to use the HS fields for their games, other then that they had no contact with the HS program.  Parent shows up thinking they he was going to get his way.  Principal explains same thing my wife did to him.  Of course the parent escalates it up to the board office.  Who again explains things to the parent again.  

Now at this point you would think the parent would get the fact that he is not allowed on the field nor is he allowed to coach the kids.  So what does he do, the next game he attempts to have his sons (2 on the team) come over to him between plays to get instructions.  Of course they are embarrassed as all heck by his behavior.  As he stands on the sidelines trying to get their attention my wife has her Resource officer onsite watching the game.  Of course the parent attempts to take a few steps onto the field.  Officer, who was in plain clothes, walks up to the parent and asks to speak to him off to the side.  Of course the parent has some choice words for the officer before he can identify himself to the parent.  Conversation moves off to the side.  Fairly one-sided conversation with the officer doing most the talking.  Father never went onto the field after that, but continued to yell instructions as loud as he could from the sidelines every game.  Really cheesed off some parents who would say stuff to him.

joes87 posted:

I've mentioned this many times on here, I am not a HS coach.  My wife is an administrator in the school district my kid currently attends.  She has held many administrative positions over the years. A few years back she was the AP at the JrHS my son attended.  Kinda a bummer for him, but he worked through it.  

Anyway, her first year there we were at my sons football game (he played for the JrH).  First game of the season, a parent walks out onto the field and starts coaching the kids.  Moving them around into the gaps and telling them how to run their defense.  It was easy to tell that this was a parent as the team and coaches were on the other side of the field.  I looked at my wife with disbelief.  She walked over to the coaches to talk to them.  Something she normally would never do during a game.  Comes back over to our side walks right up to the father and asks to speak to him off to the side.  The father responds with, "after I get them setup for this play".  My wife, not one to mince words, looks at the father and explains to him, "if you don't remove yourself from the field right now, I will have you removed from the premises and place a trespass warning against you".  Needless to say the father was not happy.  

My wife take him off to the side and explains to him, in no uncertain terms, that this was not his team and if he wished to coach he was free to work with one of the local youth programs that runs football programs up through the 8th grade (for the parents that think JrHS football is not good enough for their kids).  She also explained that if we intruded onto the field again she would have him removed from the premises.  Lets just say he was not happy.  He storms off muttering something along the lines of women not understanding sports and using the "you don't know who I am line".

Wife shows up to school the next day, the principal (started half-way through the previous year) asks her about the game as she has a vm on her phone number from an angry parent.  Wife goes on to explain the story to her.  The principal calls up the parent and asks for a meeting.  Parent thinks he was hot sh$! because he coached a youth team that he claims "was associated with the High School".  No such thing, they used the HS mascot as their mascot and paid to use the HS fields for their games, other then that they had no contact with the HS program.  Parent shows up thinking they he was going to get his way.  Principal explains same thing my wife did to him.  Of course the parent escalates it up to the board office.  Who again explains things to the parent again.  

Now at this point you would think the parent would get the fact that he is not allowed on the field nor is he allowed to coach the kids.  So what does he do, the next game he attempts to have his sons (2 on the team) come over to him between plays to get instructions.  Of course they are embarrassed as all heck by his behavior.  As he stands on the sidelines trying to get their attention my wife has her Resource officer onsite watching the game.  Of course the parent attempts to take a few steps onto the field.  Officer, who was in plain clothes, walks up to the parent and asks to speak to him off to the side.  Of course the parent has some choice words for the officer before he can identify himself to the parent.  Conversation moves off to the side.  Fairly one-sided conversation with the officer doing most the talking.  Father never went onto the field after that, but continued to yell instructions as loud as he could from the sidelines every game.  Really cheesed off some parents who would say stuff to him.

Let's be fair though this is the one off, really the one in a million off.  Could probably find some incredible horror stories about coaches and administrators also but that would be just as unfair to coaches as this example is to parents.  What this story proves is this one guy is an idiot. 

As I read through these posts, I have to admit, that I'm glad to hear that there are parents like this outside of our local community!  Someone should write a book or do a reality series.  Maybe it's already been  done?

2020dad posted:

joes87 posted:

I've mentioned this many times on here, I am not a HS coach.  My wife is an administrator in the school district my kid currently attends.  She has held many administrative positions over the years. A few years back she was the AP at the JrHS my son attended.  Kinda a bummer for him, but he worked through it.  

Anyway, her first year there we were at my sons football game (he played for the JrH).  First game of the season, a parent walks out onto the field and starts coaching the kids.  Moving them around into the gaps and telling them how to run their defense.  It was easy to tell that this was a parent as the team and coaches were on the other side of the field.  I looked at my wife with disbelief.  She walked over to the coaches to talk to them.  Something she normally would never do during a game.  Comes back over to our side walks right up to the father and asks to speak to him off to the side.  The father responds with, "after I get them setup for this play".  My wife, not one to mince words, looks at the father and explains to him, "if you don't remove yourself from the field right now, I will have you removed from the premises and place a trespass warning against you".  Needless to say the father was not happy.  

My wife take him off to the side and explains to him, in no uncertain terms, that this was not his team and if he wished to coach he was free to work with one of the local youth programs that runs football programs up through the 8th grade (for the parents that think JrHS football is not good enough for their kids).  She also explained that if we intruded onto the field again she would have him removed from the premises.  Lets just say he was not happy.  He storms off muttering something along the lines of women not understanding sports and using the "you don't know who I am line".

Wife shows up to school the next day, the principal (started half-way through the previous year) asks her about the game as she has a vm on her phone number from an angry parent.  Wife goes on to explain the story to her.  The principal calls up the parent and asks for a meeting.  Parent thinks he was hot sh$! because he coached a youth team that he claims "was associated with the High School".  No such thing, they used the HS mascot as their mascot and paid to use the HS fields for their games, other then that they had no contact with the HS program.  Parent shows up thinking they he was going to get his way.  Principal explains same thing my wife did to him.  Of course the parent escalates it up to the board office.  Who again explains things to the parent again.  

Now at this point you would think the parent would get the fact that he is not allowed on the field nor is he allowed to coach the kids.  So what does he do, the next game he attempts to have his sons (2 on the team) come over to him between plays to get instructions.  Of course they are embarrassed as all heck by his behavior.  As he stands on the sidelines trying to get their attention my wife has her Resource officer onsite watching the game.  Of course the parent attempts to take a few steps onto the field.  Officer, who was in plain clothes, walks up to the parent and asks to speak to him off to the side.  Of course the parent has some choice words for the officer before he can identify himself to the parent.  Conversation moves off to the side.  Fairly one-sided conversation with the officer doing most the talking.  Father never went onto the field after that, but continued to yell instructions as loud as he could from the sidelines every game.  Really cheesed off some parents who would say stuff to him.

Let's be fair though this is the one off, really the one in a million off.  Could probably find some incredible horror stories about coaches and administrators also but that would be just as unfair to coaches as this example is to parents.  What this story proves is this one guy is an idiot. 

Agreed, its an extreme case, but there are many many parents who attempt to coach from the sidelines.  Its especially prevalent at the JrH level in our area.  For two reasons.  First the parents are so close to the games at that level and secondly, as my wife says, "someone needs to teach the parents.  Thats what we do at the Jr. High level."

pabaseballdad posted:

As I read through these posts, I have to admit, that I'm glad to hear that there are parents like this outside of our local community!  Someone should write a book or do a reality series.  Maybe it's already been  done?

 

Friday night tykes?  Though a reality show about HS sports and its affect on the parents and community would probably make a compelling show.

CaCO3Girl posted:

When my kid was 9 I expected the coach to be open and inviting....at High School level I expect the coach to know my kids name but not mine.  He isn't MY coach, it isn't MY team, and I don't understand the parents who think they have a bigger role in all this other than to drive the car and write the checks, but I think I am in the minority. 

I was certainly expected to know the parents of my players. And they are an integral part of the school/athletic community. I bet we want people to come and support out teams both by being at games and contributing financially or by volunteering. This is not a one way street folks.  By the way I remember that parent on a freshman team long long ago. Thought his kid was going to get drafted someday. He was a part time player for us. In fairness we were a powerhouse program. Nice guy but just really had a high opinion of his son. Maybe just maybe as a father who worked with him way more than we did (we had 20 to worry about not one) he saw some things we didn't. That kid was drafted by the Dodgers out of college. And hooked me up with some nice seats last season as he now works in mlb. I am glad we were friendly and encouraging with both player and dad. I still think we made the right call platooning. We had a lot of good players to get in games. And to his credit he worked very hard to get better every year. The parent in Joes example clearly is an idiot. But on the other hand parents aren't always wrong and coaches aren't always right. 

Coach2709 -

As others have alluded to, I think it is a matter of setting expectations from the beginning with parents so these issues don't get out of hand.

I think in a way I was fortunate that my oldest played his last couple of years of travel ball for guys who were either current/retired high school and college coaches.  Those coaches set some pretty clear ground rules for the behavior of parents.  Anyone who didn't agree was free to find another team.  Some did when they realized that their influence on coach's decisions was coming to an end.

By the time my kid hit high school, I was not at all bothered by the coach telling parents at the pre-season meeting that unless there was some kind of critical issue, that his communication with parents would be to send out emails with schedules.  If you wanted to say anything other than "Hi Coach", then send it through your player.  He made it pretty clear that he would talk to the players about anything, but not the parents.

He also made it clear that coaching from the stands, yelling at umpires, or heaven forbid the other team or it's parents - was completely unacceptable.  I remember him sending a player out to the stands to tell his father the next time he complained about the strike zone that he was going to get kicked off the team.  I'm pretty sure he wasn't kidding.

On the flip side, I know of other coaches who allow parents to have a ridiculous amount of influence.  Oddly those always seem to be the teams with the loud obnoxious fans who argue every call.  Strange how that seems to go together.

Rob T posted:

By the time my kid hit high school, I was not at all bothered by the coach telling parents at the pre-season meeting that unless there was some kind of critical issue, that his communication with parents would be to send out emails with schedules.  If you wanted to say anything other than "Hi Coach", then send it through your player.  He made it pretty clear that he would talk to the players about anything, but not the parents.

This is common in my neck of the woods as well.

I think of it like this, my son works for this man, I do not.  If my son had a job would any of you find it appropriate for me to explain to my son's boss at McBurger Joint that his skills could be better utilized at the drive through window rather than mopping the floor?  Of course not!  So why do parents think it is okay to have these discussions with coaches?

CaCO3Girl posted:

If my son had a job would any of you find it appropriate for me to explain to my son's boss at McBurger Joint that his skills could be better utilized at the drive through window rather than mopping the floor?  Of course not!  

Ummmm...more parents may deem that acceptable than you imagine. Believe me.

One thing I have heard repeatedly from HS coaches is the lack of kids willingness to listen. They have been taught for years by some travel program, academy or private lessons. By the time they hit 10th grade where most programs start to get serious they have been trained so deeply into what they do they aren't receptive to changes...that problem isn't going to go away.

Think about it if your son is full time in a "real program that teaches" from the time he is 13 to 15 (I realize it could be earlier or later) and the amount of training time that includes. Below is what my son did with his regional team at 13 and 14, when they hit 15u it was freshman ball so they didn't do spring time.

Spring practice 2x per week for 10 weeks = 20 - tournament schedule - 5 or 6 weekends average 5 games a weekend - call it 25 games - so total 45 sessions.

Summer - 2x practice for 12 weeks = 24 - tournament schedule 8 weekends x 5 40 total = 64 sessions

Fall - 2x practice 8 weeks = 16 and 5 tournaments x 5 = 25

winter workouts 2x week x 10 weeks = 20

Total yearly organized baseball sessions = 154 roughly, truth nobody makes 100% but it was somewhere between 125 and 150 depending on the kid. Lets call it 135 for middle ground. Now multiply x2.75 year because the spring workouts don't existing for the u15 season and you get approx. 360 games and or training sessions with your travel organization.

How is a HS coach going to compete with that, or change the habits that have been ingrained? HS programs don't do anywhere near the volume of practices or games, they are working with a higher coach to player ratio then most travel programs, they may or may not be more qualified but generally speaking HSA school coaches are less and the big one generally speaking HS coaches are less connected to the college recruitment process....

I don't have a solution other then teaching your son how to listen, give respect and attempt to give the man what he is looking for as best as you can for the time you are together. When push comes to shove habits are not going to be broken for better or worse during a HS season and those same habits in question are going to be reinforced immediately when the HS season ends.

The only solution IMO is teach the boys how to be respectful and I hate to say it but kind of humor the HS coach until you are aren't there anymore.

Thoughts?

old_school posted:

 

The only solution IMO is teach the boys how to be respectful and I hate to say it but kind of humor the HS coach until you are aren't there anymore.

Thoughts?

Heaven forbid he might actually listen and try to apply some concepts and maybe learn something. Just recently it was determined that there is more than one way to accomplish things in the game of baseball, not just the way prescribed by the "select" (aka: paid) coach.

Oh boy...  I am finding myself in that position again...  Wondering how long I should stay in a thread.  The "I know what I am doing" "don't tread on me" "sit down shut up and simply cheer when appropriate" "don't talk to me" mentality is what's WRONG with coaching/athletics not what's somehow admirable.  Yes there are a few - and yes I said a few - crazy parents out there.  In 20 years of coaching I have only a couple times encountered a parent who was worth more than an eye roll.  Yes I remember a total of two in all those years - two sports - who were way out of line. Stop being so fragile and sensitive!  When you are a coach there will always be people who think you are an idiot.  If you can't handle that don't coach!!  And if you open your mind a little maybe you might learn something from a parent someday.  Now I know this may seem to some like I am a coach hater. Not the case.  I am part of the fraternity.  I want people to be fair with their assessment of coaches.  So I also think we need to be fair with our assessment of parents.  And I have to be brutally honest.  The quality of hs coaching now is much much lower than when I started out.  I learned from some greats.  And now hs athletics in general seem to be on the decline and coach quality with it.  Just an observation.  And in the long run as always these are just opinions on all our part. 

2020dad posted:

Oh boy...  I am finding myself in that position again...  Wondering how long I should stay in a thread.  The "I know what I am doing" "don't tread on me" "sit down shut up and simply cheer when appropriate" "don't talk to me" mentality is what's WRONG with coaching/athletics not what's somehow admirable.  Yes there are a few - and yes I said a few - crazy parents out there.  In 20 years of coaching I have only a couple times encountered a parent who was worth more than an eye roll.  Yes I remember a total of two in all those years - two sports - who were way out of line. Stop being so fragile and sensitive!  When you are a coach there will always be people who think you are an idiot.  If you can't handle that don't coach!!  And if you open your mind a little maybe you might learn something from a parent someday.  Now I know this may seem to some like I am a coach hater. Not the case.  I am part of the fraternity.  I want people to be fair with their assessment of coaches.  So I also think we need to be fair with our assessment of parents.  And I have to be brutally honest.  The quality of hs coaching now is much much lower than when I started out.  I learned from some greats.  And now hs athletics in general seem to be on the decline and coach quality with it.  Just an observation.  And in the long run as always these are just opinions on all our part. 

Many of the what would be really good high school coaches now coach travel because it pays much better. Nothing wrong with it, that's just how it works.

And no AD to deal with!  Just kidding coach2709!

AD's are generally great.  It's the administrators and school board members who don't understand sports at all that pose problems. 

CaCO3Girl posted:

Rob T posted:

By the time my kid hit high school, I was not at all bothered by the coach telling parents at the pre-season meeting that unless there was some kind of critical issue, that his communication with parents would be to send out emails with schedules.  If you wanted to say anything other than "Hi Coach", then send it through your player.  He made it pretty clear that he would talk to the players about anything, but not the parents.

This is common in my neck of the woods as well.

I think of it like this, my son works for this man, I do not.  If my son had a job would any of you find it appropriate for me to explain to my son's boss at McBurger Joint that his skills could be better utilized at the drive through window rather than mopping the floor?  Of course not!  So why do parents think it is okay to have these discussions with coaches?

CaCO, you would be surprised. I hire lots of HS teenagers. Roughly 25-30 work for me at any given time. Not unusual to have a parent call me about something that happened at work. 99.9% of time it is first I am hearing of whatever it is, including the child/ employee. Same conversation as the coach in control. " I am glad to talk to "x" but as his parent, I can't and won't discuss that with you unless it is about some sort of abuse. You would be shocked how many times I hear "little Mary feels harassed at work because the other 10 HS employees won't talk to her or talk about her". When it gets down to it (talking to Mary alone and other employees)- 99.9% of time it is because Mary is not doing her job and they have been covering for her or how she behaves. I am always willing to talk about an employee health with a parent, but not work place or Mary's work. We have a lot of parent -  child working at our place, a few in both in my department. Those are the tough ones. But I set those expectations in first couple of days of employment with the employee. As the player, usually the employee is embarrassed that  Mommy or Daddy are getting involved

old_school posted:

 

The only solution IMO is teach the boys how to be respectful and I hate to say it but kind of humor the HS coach until you are aren't there anymore.

Thoughts?

Very good point old_school.  Kids need to be respectful, and willing to try new things (coachability) but definitely agree.

Last year as a freshman one of the volunteer coaches tried to change my sons mechanics.  Honestly, my son does not have the prototypical pitcher body & will play the field (versus pitch) but was fortunate to play for years at an program for a coach that made it up to the show before blowing out his arm - so he was overly cautious with kids arms and made sure they threw with good mechanics.

Son listened to the HS volunteer coach, said 'yes sir', and threw a breaking ball the way he was taught by his travel coach and the HS coach yelled "YES!! that's what I'm looking for!".  Was proud of my son for listening, but smart enough to know to pitch the way he was taught by someone he respected.

There will always be chirping & politics - all one should expect is an opportunity for their child to earn their way.  

2020dad posted:

Oh boy...  I am finding myself in that position again...  Wondering how long I should stay in a thread.  The "I know what I am doing" "don't tread on me" "sit down shut up and simply cheer when appropriate" "don't talk to me" mentality is what's WRONG with coaching/athletics not what's somehow admirable.  Yes there are a few - and yes I said a few - crazy parents out there.  In 20 years of coaching I have only a couple times encountered a parent who was worth more than an eye roll.  Yes I remember a total of two in all those years - two sports - who were way out of line. Stop being so fragile and sensitive!  When you are a coach there will always be people who think you are an idiot.  If you can't handle that don't coach!!  And if you open your mind a little maybe you might learn something from a parent someday.  Now I know this may seem to some like I am a coach hater. Not the case.  I am part of the fraternity.  I want people to be fair with their assessment of coaches.  So I also think we need to be fair with our assessment of parents.  And I have to be brutally honest.  The quality of hs coaching now is much much lower than when I started out.  I learned from some greats.  And now hs athletics in general seem to be on the decline and coach quality with it.  Just an observation.  And in the long run as always these are just opinions on all our part. 

Oddly I don't disagree with you.

In my example, the coach set an expectation.  Basically, he wanted the players to handle their own issues, and for parents not to embarrass the program.  Outside of the baseball season, he is the world's nicest guy.  If you run into him somewhere he'll spend half an hour talking to you about what your kid can do to improve, future plans, etc.

Not during the season though, that's just him and the players.  I can respect that.

As to the "paid" coach issue...  I think a lot of that stems from coaches who don't want to have to deal with every player having been taught some different technique by some different coach.  Too much to sort out.

At the same time I think there is a large portion of coaches who really aren't as informed as "paid" coaches.  Not that being paid automatically makes you an expert - but neither does being hired as a high school coach.  Like all teachers, some will be good - some will be not so good.  The only bad ones are those who are unwilling to continue learning. 

It's a matter of boundaries. I have coached most - almost all - of the current high school varsity. Our HC doesn't do much actual coaching of pitchers, his philosophy is to concentrate on defense and hitting. That's actually strange, because during this coaches tenure, our small school is known mostly for one thing - producing pro pitchers. I have a good relationship with him because I came to him last year before the season, told that I have intimate knowledge of his pitchers and most of their instruction has come from me. I let him know that when the season begins, I bow out, even with my own son for the most part. If he wants anything from me, I'm available. If not, no problem, but I won't be coaching those kids uninvited while they are his. It's an understanding that has worked well.

2020dad posted:

What's the first line of the love story theme?  "Where do I begin..."  

Please mail your Man Card in to the proper authorities immediately . . . 

2020dad posted:

Oh boy...  I am finding myself in that position again...  Wondering how long I should stay in a thread.  The "I know what I am doing" "don't tread on me" "sit down shut up and simply cheer when appropriate" "don't talk to me" mentality is what's WRONG with coaching/athletics not what's somehow admirable.  Yes there are a few - and yes I said a few - crazy parents out there.  In 20 years of coaching I have only a couple times encountered a parent who was worth more than an eye roll.  Yes I remember a total of two in all those years - two sports - who were way out of line. Stop being so fragile and sensitive!  When you are a coach there will always be people who think you are an idiot.  If you can't handle that don't coach!!  And if you open your mind a little maybe you might learn something from a parent someday.  Now I know this may seem to some like I am a coach hater. Not the case.  I am part of the fraternity.  I want people to be fair with their assessment of coaches.  So I also think we need to be fair with our assessment of parents.  And I have to be brutally honest.  The quality of hs coaching now is much much lower than when I started out.  I learned from some greats.  And now hs athletics in general seem to be on the decline and coach quality with it.  Just an observation.  And in the long run as always these are just opinions on all our part. 

You have hit the nail on the head in most of your posts.  At younger levels, I prefer coaches with kids.  Being a parent changes your perspective. 

And the days that HS coaches are "always right" are gone.  Our school has limited resources for athletics and the pool of teacher/coaches is pretty poor.  I have seen so much bad coaching over the years it makes your head spin. 

Now with that said, the kids need to learn to work with the cards they have been dealt.  Listen to the coaches and pickup on some things that may work for you.  Do your best and play your hardest.  Learn the do's and don'ts, as someday you may be coaching as well.  

Great Post. Can't imagine there is too much coaching from the stands at the big time PG Events but then again I have not not attended one. 

For those that like a little Dark Humor, think American Psycho, and are getting ready for season I recommend this book. It's on iTunes  as well  

https://books.google.com/books...G3oAEACAAJ&hl=en

Nuke83 posted:

2020dad posted:

What's the first line of the love story theme?  "Where do I begin..."  

Please mail your Man Card in to the proper authorities immediately . . . 

Ok that's good.  Touché. 

ironhorse posted:

old_school posted:

 

The only solution IMO is teach the boys how to be respectful and I hate to say it but kind of humor the HS coach until you are aren't there anymore.

Thoughts?

Heaven forbid he might actually listen and try to apply some concepts and maybe learn something. Just recently it was determined that there is more than one way to accomplish things in the game of baseball, not just the way prescribed by the "select" (aka: paid) coach.

I didn't mean to be confrontational, my point was actually how do you best fit into a program?

I am actually friends with the coach who told me of his frustrations and other in league whom he coaches against, he is an old school tough as nails guy...and a great guy. I went to war against his boys for years in HS, Legion (yea I predate travel ball)  and as an adult. We grew from enemies, to competitors to be friends. When I explained the math him to him and what a HS coach is up against in making fundamental changes he realized it is impossible. There is just no win.

I feel the respect needs to go both ways, the kid needs to respect the coach and give him as much as possible. The coach needs to respect the fact for better or worse he is only doing his player a disservice by making changes that have no chance of staying with the boy. IMO a HS coach who is with a child for no more then 1/3 of a season shouldn't try to make major changes to the boys game. At one point in time that may have been correct thing to do and for some kids today it may still be the right thing to do....but not across the board.

it is an acknowledgement of the changing times and if you want to continue to have success you need to will adapt your coaching style.

One word here - FUNDING.

This has changed significantly from the olden days - parents now pay for their kids to play these sports in HS.  Uniforms, equipment, facilities, fund raising etc. is now an expected part of the deal.  If your kids team travels for Spring Break - write a check and it can be over $1,000.  In my son's HS career I never spent less than $1,500 for any of the 3 years he was on the Varsity.  We also spent a minimum of 40-50 hours a year in the concession, field work and other fund raising activity.  Then there is the summer camp where the players "staff" it for free and 75 -100 Middle School kids pay $125 to hang out at the HS with the coach for 3 days. 

None of it was optional and there was always a vague threat (tribal legend) that if you didn't participate that your son would suffer the consequences of your failure.  So when you demand peoples time, effort and money to make the team and program functional - you have invited the nose of the camel under the tent.  So Mom and Dad believe they have purchased the right to participate and have opinions.  If you don't want to deal with the parents then you should expect nothing out of them IMO. 

To think you can shut them out entirely when they are dumping over $20k cash money and another $10K - $15k in fundraising per year plus 1,000 hours of their lives into the gig strikes me as a pretty one sided.  Especially when there is no accounting of the funds including the camp dough. 

IMO it doesn't buy participation or input to decisions but answering a few questions with a decent attitude (i.e. No hoody coach here) regarding what is going on is a reasonable expectation.   

old_school posted:

I didn't mean to be confrontational, my point was actually how do you best fit into a program?

I am actually friends with the coach who told me of his frustrations and other in league whom he coaches against, he is an old school tough as nails guy...and a great guy. I went to war against his boys for years in HS, Legion (yea I predate travel ball)  and as an adult. We grew from enemies, to competitors to be friends. When I explained the math him to him and what a HS coach is up against in making fundamental changes he realized it is impossible. There is just no win.

I feel the respect needs to go both ways, the kid needs to respect the coach and give him as much as possible. The coach needs to respect the fact for better or worse he is only doing his player a disservice by making changes that have no chance of staying with the boy. IMO a HS coach who is with a child for no more then 1/3 of a season shouldn't try to make major changes to the boys game. At one point in time that may have been correct thing to do and for some kids today it may still be the right thing to do....but not across the board.

it is an acknowledgement of the changing times and if you want to continue to have success you need to will adapt your coaching style.

I didn't mean to sound confrontational either. Sorry. I guess what bothers me in your scenario is the assumption that what is being taught outside of HS is better than what's being taught inside of HS. If I feel a kid is getting worse instruction from his "select" coach than from me, am I supposed to just roll with it because the "math" makes it "impossible?"

That sounds like a lazy coach to me. At this level a coach's job isn't to hold the kid's hand all year long and supervise every drill he does. It's to introduce/explain/teach concepts and/or fundamentals to kids and show them how to practice reinforcing them. THen it's up to the kid to put the work in.

I believe in long toss. We show them how to do it, put them on a schedule, even issue J-bands in the offseason. If the kids' summer coach doesn't like long toss, does that mean a) the kid has to give up long tossing until school starts or b) I should just stop teaching it?

My philosophy is that all coaches have something to offer, but it's the player's baseball career. His job is to immerse himself in learning the game. He may get some of that from me, some from his dad, and some from other coaches. I'm not going to change or back off how I coach because of the kids schedule with other teams.

old_school posted:

Think about it if your son is full time in a "real program that teaches" from the time he is 13 to 15 (I realize it could be earlier or later) and the amount of training time that includes. Below is what my son did with his regional team at 13 and 14, when they hit 15u it was freshman ball so they didn't do spring time.

Spring practice 2x per week for 10 weeks = 20 - tournament schedule - 5 or 6 weekends average 5 games a weekend - call it 25 games - so total 45 sessions.

Summer - 2x practice for 12 weeks = 24 - tournament schedule 8 weekends x 5 40 total = 64 sessions

Fall - 2x practice 8 weeks = 16 and 5 tournaments x 5 = 25

winter workouts 2x week x 10 weeks = 20

Total yearly organized baseball sessions = 154 roughly, truth nobody makes 100% but it was somewhere between 125 and 150 depending on the kid. Lets call it 135 for middle ground. Now multiply x2.75 year because the spring workouts don't existing for the u15 season and you get approx. 360 games and or training sessions with your travel organization.

How is a HS coach going to compete with that, or change the habits that have been ingrained? HS programs don't do anywhere near the volume of practices or games,

And for what it's worth your math doesn't apply down here in Texas. Last year in the spring we had 43 practices. We played 33 games. So for the Spring SEASON, we had 76 "sessions."

For the fall offseason we have 1 hr a day 5 days a week for 18 weeks, which equal 90 "sessions".

Spring semester offseason (the 3 weeks prior to our start date and approx 3 weeks after the end of the season till end of school) we'll also have 1 hr a day for 5 days a week, which equals 30 more "sessions." 

Down here we start the HS program at 14, so that shaves a year off of your time frame where you are, so that skews it even more.

In my mind I have my kids every day for 9 1/2 months out of the year roughly, which is about 190 "sessions" of learning baseball, so I still feel like we can have plenty of impact on them.

luv baseball posted:

One word here - FUNDING.

This has changed significantly from the olden days - parents now pay for their kids to play these sports in HS.  Uniforms, equipment, facilities, fund raising etc. is now an expected part of the deal.  If your kids team travels for Spring Break - write a check and it can be over $1,000.  In my son's HS career I never spent less than $1,500 for any of the 3 years he was on the Varsity.  We also spent a minimum of 40-50 hours a year in the concession, field work and other fund raising activity.  Then there is the summer camp where the players "staff" it for free and 75 -100 Middle School kids pay $125 to hang out at the HS with the coach for 3 days. 

None of it was optional and there was always a vague threat (tribal legend) that if you didn't participate that your son would suffer the consequences of your failure.  So when you demand peoples time, effort and money to make the team and program functional - you have invited the nose of the camel under the tent.  So Mom and Dad believe they have purchased the right to participate and have opinions.  If you don't want to deal with the parents then you should expect nothing out of them IMO. 

To think you can shut them out entirely when they are dumping over $20k cash money and another $10K - $15k in fundraising per year plus 1,000 hours of their lives into the gig strikes me as a pretty one sided.  Especially when there is no accounting of the funds including the camp dough. 

IMO it doesn't buy participation or input to decisions but answering a few questions with a decent attitude (i.e. No hoody coach here) regarding what is going on is a reasonable expectation.   

And any parent who wants to talk about the best fundraising ideas with the coach should feel free to step right up....any parent who wants to talk about the best batting order with the coach should take their son and step right off the team....but as this thread has proven, apparently, I am an anomaly.

CACO3-

Last statement from my posting below:

IMO it doesn't buy participation or input to decisions but answering a few questions with a decent attitude (i.e. No hoody coach here) regarding what is going on is a reasonable expectation.  

I don't think there is anything in there to be read into it that anyone should be making out the lineup card - actually it is quite the opposite. 

luv baseball posted:

CACO3-

Last statement from my posting below:

IMO it doesn't buy participation or input to decisions but answering a few questions with a decent attitude (i.e. No hoody coach here) regarding what is going on is a reasonable expectation.  

I don't think there is anything in there to be read into it that anyone should be making out the lineup card - actually it is quite the opposite. 

I have a lot of compassion for teachers in general, but especially for high school coaches.  Let's face it, they don't exactly do it for the money.  To expect a high school coach to field questions like Why didn't you send bobby home in the third inning, or why did you bat timmy in the three spot?  Why did you pitch Jimmy when Johnny was looking good at practice? Even if they are as polite as a saint I think it is perfectly reasonable for the coach to say "If any of the boys have that question I will be sure to explain it to them." OR "Ask your son, if he doesn't know the answer tell him to come talk to me."

There are 35 kids on the local HS baseball team, that is at least 35 parents who might have a "few questions" about why the coach did what.  I don't think it's a reasonable expectation to have the parents questions addressed, I think it's insulting, and I don't think the coach should have to justify what he did on the field with his team during THEIR game (unless the health of a player is involved).  Now if a player asks a question then I would hope the coach would explain it so the kid would learn, but as a parent I don't see why I would get that same accommodation.

Let's just play the what if game.  Humor me.  What if a parent really did have a good idea?  Should they not offer it?  Should the coach not listen?  Coaches can be really insecure sometimes and just don't want to even entertain that someone may have an idea that can help. 

CaCO3Girl posted:

luv baseball posted:

One word here - FUNDING.

This has changed significantly from the olden days - parents now pay for their kids to play these sports in HS.  Uniforms, equipment, facilities, fund raising etc. is now an expected part of the deal.  If your kids team travels for Spring Break - write a check and it can be over $1,000.  In my son's HS career I never spent less than $1,500 for any of the 3 years he was on the Varsity.  We also spent a minimum of 40-50 hours a year in the concession, field work and other fund raising activity.  Then there is the summer camp where the players "staff" it for free and 75 -100 Middle School kids pay $125 to hang out at the HS with the coach for 3 days. 

None of it was optional and there was always a vague threat (tribal legend) that if you didn't participate that your son would suffer the consequences of your failure.  So when you demand peoples time, effort and money to make the team and program functional - you have invited the nose of the camel under the tent.  So Mom and Dad believe they have purchased the right to participate and have opinions.  If you don't want to deal with the parents then you should expect nothing out of them IMO. 

To think you can shut them out entirely when they are dumping over $20k cash money and another $10K - $15k in fundraising per year plus 1,000 hours of their lives into the gig strikes me as a pretty one sided.  Especially when there is no accounting of the funds including the camp dough. 

IMO it doesn't buy participation or input to decisions but answering a few questions with a decent attitude (i.e. No hoody coach here) regarding what is going on is a reasonable expectation.   

And any parent who wants to talk about the best fundraising ideas with the coach should feel free to step right up....any parent who wants to talk about the best batting order with the coach should take their son and step right off the team....but as this thread has proven, apparently, I am an anomaly.

Really, that's why everything money related should be run through a separate booster club.  Technically it's even required to be done that way here.

The way it worked for us was the coach came up with a wish list - equipment, uniforms, practice gear, tournaments, assistant coaches, etc. The booster club worked to raise as much funds as possible to meet those wishes.  Usually he didn't get everything obviously.

All fundraising, including concession stand was done by the boosters.  The coach was always asked for input, but everything was voted on by the club members.  It helped to keep down the $$$ influence any one family could make.  It also kept the coach from feeling any obligation to any individual player because of "donations" his family made.

The booster club also ran the fall program to ensure there were no issues with state rules requiring that teams could not be "school" affiliated.