Pardon me while I rant / vent

CaCO3Girl posted:

luv baseball posted:

CACO3-

Last statement from my posting below:

IMO it doesn't buy participation or input to decisions but answering a few questions with a decent attitude (i.e. No hoody coach here) regarding what is going on is a reasonable expectation.  

I don't think there is anything in there to be read into it that anyone should be making out the lineup card - actually it is quite the opposite. 

I have a lot of compassion for teachers in general, but especially for high school coaches.  Let's face it, they don't exactly do it for the money.  To expect a high school coach to field questions like Why didn't you send bobby home in the third inning, or why did you bat timmy in the three spot?  Why did you pitch Jimmy when Johnny was looking good at practice? Even if they are as polite as a saint I think it is perfectly reasonable for the coach to say "If any of the boys have that question I will be sure to explain it to them." OR "Ask your son, if he doesn't know the answer tell him to come talk to me."

There are 35 kids on the local HS baseball team, that is at least 35 parents who might have a "few questions" about why the coach did what.  I don't think it's a reasonable expectation to have the parents questions addressed, I think it's insulting, and I don't think the coach should have to justify what he did on the field with his team during THEIR game (unless the health of a player is involved).  Now if a player asks a question then I would hope the coach would explain it so the kid would learn, but as a parent I don't see why I would get that same accommodation.

I just don't know how it is where others coach or coaches but it was ALWAYS an expectation where I coached that you were expected to communicate with parents. And again I coaches at two powerhouse programs.  So I don't know where this attitude of not talking to parents comes from. I understand all too well what coaches get paid hourly.  But forget the pay for a second.  Mlb managers are mandated to sit and answer reporters questions after every single game.  Sometimes the questions are not so nice.  But they have to answer them so they are accountable to the fan base.  A fan base that presumably is far less educated regarding baseball than themselves.  Why should a high school coach not have to answer to 35 parents?  Doesn't have to agree with them but definitely has to answer their questions.  They are not almighty gods.  

2020dad posted:

Let's just play the what if game.  Humor me.  What if a parent really did have a good idea?  Should they not offer it?  Should the coach not listen?  Coaches can be really insecure sometimes and just don't want to even entertain that someone may have an idea that can help. 

On the surface that seems reasonable.  The problem is then you have to entertain everyone who thinks they have a good idea. Not sure where you draw the line?

Not listening at all seems to be too draconian, and listening too much seems to be just an exercise in frustration.

2020dad posted:

Let's just play the what if game.  Humor me.  What if a parent really did have a good idea?  Should they not offer it?  Should the coach not listen?  Coaches can be really insecure sometimes and just don't want to even entertain that someone may have an idea that can help. 

Humoring you....if a parent had a good idea they should offer it TO THEIR KID, the one who is actually on the team and the kid can relay it to the coach.

Rob T posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

luv baseball posted:

One word here - FUNDING.

This has changed significantly from the olden days - parents now pay for their kids to play these sports in HS.  Uniforms, equipment, facilities, fund raising etc. is now an expected part of the deal.  If your kids team travels for Spring Break - write a check and it can be over $1,000.  In my son's HS career I never spent less than $1,500 for any of the 3 years he was on the Varsity.  We also spent a minimum of 40-50 hours a year in the concession, field work and other fund raising activity.  Then there is the summer camp where the players "staff" it for free and 75 -100 Middle School kids pay $125 to hang out at the HS with the coach for 3 days. 

None of it was optional and there was always a vague threat (tribal legend) that if you didn't participate that your son would suffer the consequences of your failure.  So when you demand peoples time, effort and money to make the team and program functional - you have invited the nose of the camel under the tent.  So Mom and Dad believe they have purchased the right to participate and have opinions.  If you don't want to deal with the parents then you should expect nothing out of them IMO. 

To think you can shut them out entirely when they are dumping over $20k cash money and another $10K - $15k in fundraising per year plus 1,000 hours of their lives into the gig strikes me as a pretty one sided.  Especially when there is no accounting of the funds including the camp dough. 

IMO it doesn't buy participation or input to decisions but answering a few questions with a decent attitude (i.e. No hoody coach here) regarding what is going on is a reasonable expectation.   

And any parent who wants to talk about the best fundraising ideas with the coach should feel free to step right up....any parent who wants to talk about the best batting order with the coach should take their son and step right off the team....but as this thread has proven, apparently, I am an anomaly.

Really, that's why everything money related should be run through a separate booster club.  Technically it's even required to be done that way here.

The way it worked for us was the coach came up with a wish list - equipment, uniforms, practice gear, tournaments, assistant coaches, etc. The booster club worked to raise as much funds as possible to meet those wishes.  Usually he didn't get everything obviously.

All fundraising, including concession stand was done by the boosters.  The coach was always asked for input, but everything was voted on by the club members.  It helped to keep down the $$$ influence any one family could make.  It also kept the coach from feeling any obligation to any individual player because of "donations" his family made.

The booster club also ran the fall program to ensure there were no issues with state rules requiring that teams could not be "school" affiliated.

The local high school by me has the head baseball coach as President/CEO of the Booster club.

Conflict of interest much?

2020dad posted:

I just don't know how it is where others coach or coaches but it was ALWAYS an expectation where I coached that you were expected to communicate with parents. And again I coaches at two powerhouse programs.  So I don't know where this attitude of not talking to parents comes from. I understand all too well what coaches get paid hourly.  But forget the pay for a second.  Mlb managers are mandated to sit and answer reporters questions after every single game.  Sometimes the questions are not so nice.  But they have to answer them so they are accountable to the fan base.  A fan base that presumably is far less educated regarding baseball than themselves.  Why should a high school coach not have to answer to 35 parents?  Doesn't have to agree with them but definitely has to answer their questions.  They are not almighty gods.  

When I hear about coaches having to "communicate" with parents I think of schedules, upcoming large events, where to sign up for your turn in the concession booth.

What I am talking about isn't parents asking for "communication", this is parents asking the coach to justify his actions, which is something I can't get on board with. (again, as long as it doesn't involve a child's safety/health).  Coaches decision is coaches decision.  Where your kid plays, where that kid bats, who gets sent to the next base who does not, who pitches.....ALL coaches decision and no justification needs to be given to parents on why any of that occurred.

No, I don't think they are "almighty gods" I think they are grown men that my son has CHOSEN FREELY to play for, and they shouldn't have to justify their choices on the field.  If my son has a problem with how he is being treated/played then he can bring it up with the coach.  If I have a problem with it, but my son doesn't, then I need to butt out because it's not my team.

SoxIn7 posted:

The local high school by me has the head baseball coach as President/CEO of the Booster club.

Conflict of interest much?

That wouldn't be kosher here, but it doesn't automatically mean it's being done with bad intentions. But you know - fox, henhouse.

At our HS we have a well respected, very successful coach who has been here for some time (I never looked up when he started) and is also a teacher at the HS.  There is a baseball booster club and a sports booster club.  The sports booster club is run by parents and has a committee made up of parents and the AD - they decide what projects to fund (including baseball related).  The baseball program funds it's own "extras" like several assistant coaches and large equipment purchases (pitching machines, cages, etc) and also the trip to Fla for spring break.  He communicates with parents and many of us seem comfortable talking with him both off the field and near it but he makes it very clear every year that he absolutely will not have discussions with parents about playing time, positions, batting stance, pitching mechanics, etc.  I've heard the speech several times now and he leaves no doubt that he means it.  

When 2016 was injured last year I communicated with HC after we had to change his rehab plan (PT) just so he was aware of what was going on and I know the parent of the other Jr starting pitcher did as well (they were both injured the first week when it was 30 degrees out) but the discussions were limited.  

The coach runs the program here from Varsity down through middle school.  He is a part of the community - I've seen him walking through town in full uniform to get lunch on game days - and it would be odd for parents who have known him for many years not to speak to him about regular stuff, or if there was a problem.  It's up to the coach to clearly define limits with the parents and players.  I have never seen parents here giving instruction to players before or during a game (from middle school through varsity).  

CACO - I tink your views here are a little skewed, and may change when your son reaches high school.

What others are highlighting is basic communications.  Totally agree with ya on schedules, where to be @ what time, and what the kids need to be prepared (uniform, etc.).  Honestly, this is not always as crisp as we would anticipate it would be.

It's not as cut-n-dry as you may feel it is, and here's an example that another family mentioned to me last night at the game.  They are pretty big on volunteering and giving back, which is awesome.  We are too - but this family is really into it.  Parent reached out to coach to find out what times baseball will be on weekends so they can plan volunteer events around it - no response.

Agree with ya regarding any baseball items - Coach should communicate with the kids, but common courtesy to communicate with parents (especially when many freshman/sophomores have yet to drive).

presont posted:

CACO - I tink your views here are a little skewed, and may change when your son reaches high school.

What others are highlighting is basic communications.  Totally agree with ya on schedules, where to be @ what time, and what the kids need to be prepared (uniform, etc.).  Honestly, this is not always as crisp as we would anticipate it would be.

It's not as cut-n-dry as you may feel it is, and here's an example that another family mentioned to me last night at the game.  They are pretty big on volunteering and giving back, which is awesome.  We are too - but this family is really into it.  Parent reached out to coach to find out what times baseball will be on weekends so they can plan volunteer events around it - no response.

Agree with ya regarding any baseball items - Coach should communicate with the kids, but common courtesy to communicate with parents (especially when many freshman/sophomores have yet to drive).

 

 

Yes - but on the flipside, couldn't that communication take place through the player?

As a parent I would love timely emails listing a schedule for weeks out - but ultimately I have to make my son responsible for making sure I know if I need to take him somewhere. I shouldn't put that responsibility on the coach.

presont posted:

CACO - I tink your views here are a little skewed, and may change when your son reaches high school.

What others are highlighting is basic communications.  Totally agree with ya on schedules, where to be @ what time, and what the kids need to be prepared (uniform, etc.).  Honestly, this is not always as crisp as we would anticipate it would be.

It's not as cut-n-dry as you may feel it is, and here's an example that another family mentioned to me last night at the game.  They are pretty big on volunteering and giving back, which is awesome.  We are too - but this family is really into it.  Parent reached out to coach to find out what times baseball will be on weekends so they can plan volunteer events around it - no response.

Agree with ya regarding any baseball items - Coach should communicate with the kids, but common courtesy to communicate with parents (especially when many freshman/sophomores have yet to drive).

 

 

 I don't see why I would feel differently about questioning the high school coach when I feel that you shouldn't question the summer team coach. 

 My answer to the volunteers would be when the schedules out it's out.  It isn't the high school baseball coaches place to help them organize their weekend. If their kid wants to be on the team this is part of it,  why didn't they ask a senior when the games usually are on the weekends, if there is even a pattern. Why go to the head coach with that? 

Interesting turn being taken in this string.

I will clarify my experience.  Coach in parent meeting the beginning of each season: This is My team, my rules, stay away, there are no discussions.  Write your checks, be on time and do your fair share for your other obligations to the team.  It was not a joke or even remotely kidding.

I know of at least one parent that despite warnings to take him seriously went to a practice and tried to leave the parking lot and enter the field area outside the fence.  When his ears stopped ringing he never did that again.  And the legend was passed to another generation of parents and players.

All I ever wanted to know from the coach without a bag of crap attached to it was:  Is he giving you everything he's got?  Does he have a good attitude?  is there anything he should be working on?  Same as everyone else I ever turned my children over to for any purpose.

Question for everyone that says talking to coaches is out of bounds.  Does that also go for the Geometry teacher?  History Teacher? 

If so we can get rid of all those pesky Parent/Teacher conferences.  What if a teacher told you to get lost if you showed up to discuss Jr's performance when it wasn't Parent/Teacher night.  Acceptable?

I know finding out how my kid is acting in the classroom and if he is doing his work is probably an intrusion but I really feel I should participate at some level.   I know I am not a Geometry wiz but maybe the outcome will improve if I do.  Crazy notion?  Yes? No? 

On the other subject you raise - You and your son get to freely choose who he plays for.  Unlikely. 

That would be truly amazing for public school.  I really doubt it is true but if it is then you are very lucky.  More likely is your son has no choice in the matter.  He goes where the city and state bureaucrats tell him to go and plays for the coach that is there waiting for him - good or bad - his one and only choice is not to play at all.  

YOUR choices are to Move your family or pay for a private education.  Very impractical for most folks.

Ok I am bowing out after this one.  I can only say that if I ever coach again (just got out after last season) I will continue to listen to ANYONE with an idea. I will continue to make my own decisions after entertaining all ideas.  I will continue to be willing to speak to a parent about ANYTHING they want to speak about other than if it calls for me to criticize another player. I will continue to realize I can learn more and become better. And as a parent I will continue to expect the same in return from my sons coaches.  When he starts writing the checks for his baseball then I will 'butt out'.   I will continue to realize there are idiot parents AND idiot coaches. And I will continue to give both the benefit of the doubt.  Peace out!

luv baseball posted:

Interesting turn being taken in this string.

I will clarify my experience.  Coach in parent meeting the beginning of each season: This is My team, my rules, stay away, there are no discussions.  Write your checks, be on time and do your fair share for your other obligations to the team.  It was not a joke or even remotely kidding.

I know of at least one parent that despite warnings to take him seriously went to a practice and tried to leave the parking lot and enter the field area outside the fence.  When his ears stopped ringing he never did that again.  And the legend was passed to another generation of parents and players.

All I ever wanted to know from the coach without a bag of crap attached to it was:  Is he giving you everything he's got?  Does he have a good attitude?  is there anything he should be working on?  Same as everyone else I ever turned my children over to for any purpose.

Question for everyone that says talking to coaches is out of bounds.  Does that also go for the Geometry teacher?  History Teacher? 

If so we can get rid of all those pesky Parent/Teacher conferences.  What if a teacher told you to get lost if you showed up to discuss Jr's performance when it wasn't Parent/Teacher night.  Acceptable?

I know finding out how my kid is acting in the classroom and if he is doing his work is probably an intrusion but I really feel I should participate at some level.   I know I am not a Geometry wiz but maybe the outcome will improve if I do.  Crazy notion?  Yes? No? 

On the other subject you raise - You and your son get to freely choose who he plays for.  Unlikely. 

That would be truly amazing for public school.  I really doubt it is true but if it is then you are very lucky.  More likely is your son has no choice in the matter.  He goes where the city and state bureaucrats tell him to go and plays for the coach that is there waiting for him - good or bad - his one and only choice is not to play at all.  

YOUR choices are to Move your family or pay for a private education.  Very impractical for most folks.

 Your point is not hitting home with me. My son has no choice but to take geometry. His grades let me know how he is doing and if  he doesn't understand something I encourage him to talk to his teacher about it.  I certainly don't email the geometry teacher and let her know how best to teach my son.   If my son is not understanding, and the teacher is unable to help him, that's what private lessons oh um I mean private tutoring is for. 

My son does have a choice on whether or not he chooses to play baseball for his high school for that coach. 

Well, I think this topic has been taken around the block again...

I'll leave with this:

Those that have a need to talk to the coach - ask yourselves why?

If you can be honest with yourself in your motivation, then you can move on to pondering whether or not the conversation is necessary.

Coach2709, I didn't realize you were on the west coast: www.latimes.com/sports/highsch...20160226-column.html

Rob T posted:

presont posted:

CACO - I tink your views here are a little skewed, and may change when your son reaches high school.

What others are highlighting is basic communications.  Totally agree with ya on schedules, where to be @ what time, and what the kids need to be prepared (uniform, etc.).  Honestly, this is not always as crisp as we would anticipate it would be.

It's not as cut-n-dry as you may feel it is, and here's an example that another family mentioned to me last night at the game.  They are pretty big on volunteering and giving back, which is awesome.  We are too - but this family is really into it.  Parent reached out to coach to find out what times baseball will be on weekends so they can plan volunteer events around it - no response.

Agree with ya regarding any baseball items - Coach should communicate with the kids, but common courtesy to communicate with parents (especially when many freshman/sophomores have yet to drive).

 

 

Yes - but on the flipside, couldn't that communication take place through the player?

As a parent I would love timely emails listing a schedule for weeks out - but ultimately I have to make my son responsible for making sure I know if I need to take him somewhere. I shouldn't put that responsibility on the coach.

This is how all sports teams operate in our school. One preseason meeting with parents. You get a list of rules and guidelines and a schedule. All other communication happens through the kids. The baseball coach does try to send out emails with updates if something big is happening and parents have the option of joining an auto-text program to let you know about cancellations. Otherwise, parents are told the chain of communication and expectations if child has an issue. The number one rule is please don't corner the coach right after a game, especially if we lost. Coach is probably not in a good place to talk and is going over everything in his head to figure out what could have been done differently. If there is a problem, the process is laid out in black and white:

1) Player talks to their coach without parents

2) If not resolved, player talks to their coach and head coach (if on a lower team) without parents

3) If not resolved, head coach, player and player's coach will talk with parent.

4) If not resolved, AD.

I can't tell you how many parents did not follow this chain of communication. If I was a coach, I would get awfully testy with constant parent complaining. I had the following conversation with parents many times last year. Parent "Johnny isn't getting fair playing time. I don't know why". Me "Have you asked Johnny to talk to his coach and figure out where he needs to focus, improve or work harder?" Parent "No, but I think I will talk to the coach and get to the bottom of this. You know Johnny is an All Star, right..."

Or my favorite, sending a major passive-aggressive email to the head varsity coach and BCC half the parents on the Freshman team. Head coach then approaches parent outside of practice and parent acts like nothing is wrong and won't discuss issues face-to-face.

There definitely seems to be a few different themes in this thread. I see a difference between a real open line of communication with parents (following pre-defined guidelines) and those loud mouth parents who approach the dugouts or yell from the stands to coach their kid. If you have an issue or something constructive to offer, I think most coaches are going to talk to you, but not during practice, a game or right after a game. Be an adult and approach the situation as an adult.

However, if you are going to talk to kids during the game, or coach from the stands or constantly distract from outside the dugout, then you aren't going to win any favors with the coaching staff. I think that's pretty universal reaction to obnoxious behavior.

Wow I didn't think anybody would actually read all that rambling stuff I posted but glad to see it kicked up a **** storm.  2019dad that's a crazy article and no I'm on the other side of the country haha.

Look first of all I will say I was a little ticked off last night because we got beat and it was 99% self - inflicted.  We spent 2 weeks on putting in all these basic / simple / fundamental things like cut's and relays to just have it all go out the window.  That is one of the major points of my initial post - if these kids are playing all this travel ball then why do they NOT understand simple aspects of the game?  I ask them questions all the time and they have no clue.  Last night we were on defense and had two outs with bases loaded.  I told my catcher if you block the pitch or it pops out of the mitt to catch the ball and tag the plate - inning over.  She had this dog watching TV look on her face.  After the inning was over I asked her if she understood what I was talking about and she didn't.  So I explained to her the whole situation.  Her face lit up and got all excited.  I thought I did a great job coaching until she said - "yeah so I can just drop the ball and then she's out when I tag the plate".  Come on this is stuff you learn in youth league and if you're playing all this travel ball THIS is something you should know before you get to high school.  I'm scared to even ask them if they know what infield fly rule is.

The other point I was trying to make is (and maybe in my angry slapping of keys didn't come out very well) there is a hierarchy on any team.  It starts with the head coach, then asst coaches, then players and finally players.  When people talk about wanting communication from coaches in my experience we tell your kids everything you need to know.  Now if your kid can't get that information to you the problem isn't with the coach but with the kid.  That was your job as a parent.  Why can't a teacher / coach just send out an email to communicate.  Well let me tell you why.  Not only do I have to teach my full schedule and actively engage my kids from bell to bell but I have to grade papers, talk to kids between classes, try to use the bathroom during  between classes while supervising halls at the same time.  Then we have to have IEP meetings with any kid who has special needs (which is amazing how many kids can be labeled with something now) or we have other meetings we get to go to because we have to always be doing some sort of professional development.  If you do your teaching job correctly then you have virtually NO free time during the day.  This is why we tell kids everything you need to know after practice.  Once practice is over it's time to go home and be with your family - not to get on the computer or phone to update parents.  

The last point I was trying to make I think I can sum up with by combining several posts with my response.  I'm not saying parents should never get a chance to talk with the coach OR players / kids.  Any coach who doesn't include parents in their program is probably asking for trouble.  I'm all about communicating with parents.  I want my parents to have an active involved relationship with their kid about what we do at practice.  While the kid needs to have the conversation about playing time, position or coaching decision I will have it with a parent if they want to.  But there is a time and place for it.  The person who brought up the should parents be allowed to talk to teachers if kid is struggling makes a very valid point.  But does that conversation take place immediately after class or is something set up to discuss it?  How is that different than what I want?  You want to talk to a coach - FINE JUST SET UP A TIME TO DO IT BUT NOT AFTER A GAME OR PRACTICE.  Are parents allowed to stand outside the classroom door and tell their kids how to take notes or answer questions?  Heck no then why should parents be allowed to do the same thing from the stands during games.  Are parents allowed to just randomly walk into a classroom and talk to their kid whenever they want?  Heck no then why should they be allowed to do it on the athletic field?  That's my point - there  are times and places to have this communication.  Not whenever you want to. 

As for the people who asked if there was expectations expressed before the season.  Yes the head coach held a parent meeting and told them everything.  We told the kids after practice one day to listen to us and block out parents.  Using the article posted above about that school who's had so many head coaches in the history of the school - do you think they got that way overnight?  No that stuff started out small then festered until it blew up to what you have where parents run the show.  I've decided next year when we have our mandatory parent meetings THIS will be something we discuss and the expectations will be expressed.  But come on - this isn't brain surgery.  This should NEVER be acceptable at any time.  This should be common sense.  I'm sorry but it is.  The good news is tonight was SOOOOO much better but we also won.  I also positioned myself in the dugout so it was harder for parents to get to their kids without having to see me standing there.

BTW I never wanted this post to be about parent vs coach OR travel vs high school OR anything such as this.

This is my 29th year of coaching HS and 30th if you count my student teaching experience.  I have been the HC in 4 sports.  I have assisted in several more.  I once coached the freshman, sophomore and JV boy's basketball teams in the same season.  I've been an assistant baseball coach on two state championship teams and a state runner up.  I have coached baseball internationally and did so in the former Soviet Union when they were setting up their Olympic Teams.  I've never had a losing season in any sport.  I would not be the choice of a varsity coach for many in this thread.   That's fine.

I have a parent's meeting and I set the rules.  If you want to talk, we can set something up with the AD.  I have always made sure that I have exceptional assistant coaches.  Almost all were/are former players of mine.  They know the system backwards and forward.  They can read my mind.  I don't need outside advice.  I will establish a report with my players.  They will be able to talk to me about almost anything and if they aren't playing, you can bet, I have already had a talk to them about that.  Here is something some of you aren't thinking or maybe just don't care about, if you and I have a talk and then your son gets playing time, it will be assumed it was because of our talk and not because your son earned it.  If we talk, you can bet every other parent is going to want to talk.  It won't take long before there is a confrontation.  

I'll wrap up by saying that I've been so blessed with the parents I have had.  I had one dad try to intimidate me by threats my first year.  That didn't work out too well for him.  I have had a physical confrontation with another.  I have carried one dad out of the park since he was belligerent during a game and no administration was around.  That dad ended up in prison.  So, basically three or four bad parents out of hundreds of great parents.  As I wrapped up practice tonight, I was yelling orders etc. when we were being told to get out of the gym as the opposing basketball team entered.  One parent must have made some remarks about me yelling.  One of my players said to me as we exited the gym, "Please don't ever change coach."  That's enough for me. 

coach2709 posted:

 

The other point I was trying to make is (and maybe in my angry slapping of keys didn't come out very well) there is a hierarchy on any team.  It starts with the head coach, then asst coaches, then players and finally players.  When people talk about wanting communication from coaches in my experience we tell your kids everything you need to know.  Now if your kid can't get that information to you the problem isn't with the coach but with the kid.  That was your job as a parent.  Why can't a teacher / coach just send out an email to communicate.  Well let me tell you why.  Not only do I have to teach my full schedule and actively engage my kids from bell to bell but I have to grade papers, talk to kids between classes, try to use the bathroom during  between classes while supervising halls at the same time.  Then we have to have IEP meetings with any kid who has special needs (which is amazing how many kids can be labeled with something now) or we have other meetings we get to go to because we have to always be doing some sort of professional development.  If you do your teaching job correctly then you have virtually NO free time during the day.  This is why we tell kids everything you need to know after practice.  Once practice is over it's time to go home and be with your family - not to get on the computer or phone to update parents.  

 

Come on.  Respectfully, that is a cop out.  With today's technologies it is easy to communicate.  Our varsity coach sends an email to everyone in the program - freshman to Senior - regarding off season workouts, tryouts, fund raisers, etc.  He uses google calendar for schedules.  We have everything thru the summer.  Then you have group texts, twitter and such.  One of the better apps is team snap.  A few clicks and everyone is updated.    

luv baseball posted:

One word here - FUNDING. 

worth a repost - this may be unfortunate but it is a big part of the equation

CoachB25 posted:

This is my 29th year of coaching HS and 30th if you count my student teaching experience.  I have been the HC in 4 sports.  I have assisted in several more.  I once coached the freshman, sophomore and JV boy's basketball teams in the same season.  I've been an assistant baseball coach on two state championship teams and a state runner up.  I have coached baseball internationally and did so in the former Soviet Union when they were setting up their Olympic Teams.  I've never had a losing season in any sport.  I would not be the choice of a varsity coach for many in this thread.   That's fine.

I have a parent's meeting and I set the rules.  If you want to talk, we can set something up with the AD.  I have always made sure that I have exceptional assistant coaches.  Almost all were/are former players of mine.  They know the system backwards and forward.  They can read my mind.  I don't need outside advice.  I will establish a report with my players.  They will be able to talk to me about almost anything and if they aren't playing, you can bet, I have already had a talk to them about that.  Here is something some of you aren't thinking or maybe just don't care about, if you and I have a talk and then your son gets playing time, it will be assumed it was because of our talk and not because your son earned it.  If we talk, you can bet every other parent is going to want to talk.  It won't take long before there is a confrontation.  

I'll wrap up by saying that I've been so blessed with the parents I have had.  I had one dad try to intimidate me by threats my first year.  That didn't work out too well for him.  I have had a physical confrontation with another.  I have carried one dad out of the park since he was belligerent during a game and no administration was around.  That dad ended up in prison.  So, basically three or four bad parents out of hundreds of great parents.  As I wrapped up practice tonight, I was yelling orders etc. when we were being told to get out of the gym as the opposing basketball team entered.  One parent must have made some remarks about me yelling.  One of my players said to me as we exited the gym, "Please don't ever change coach."  That's enough for me. 

you sir are the exception not the rule! I wish my boys had an opportunity to play in such a program...unfortunately they don't.

They are a part of strong travel program that operates in similar way. Hence my stance on coaching.

Golfman25 posted:

coach2709 posted:

 

The other point I was trying to make is (and maybe in my angry slapping of keys didn't come out very well) there is a hierarchy on any team.  It starts with the head coach, then asst coaches, then players and finally players.  When people talk about wanting communication from coaches in my experience we tell your kids everything you need to know.  Now if your kid can't get that information to you the problem isn't with the coach but with the kid.  That was your job as a parent.  Why can't a teacher / coach just send out an email to communicate.  Well let me tell you why.  Not only do I have to teach my full schedule and actively engage my kids from bell to bell but I have to grade papers, talk to kids between classes, try to use the bathroom during  between classes while supervising halls at the same time.  Then we have to have IEP meetings with any kid who has special needs (which is amazing how many kids can be labeled with something now) or we have other meetings we get to go to because we have to always be doing some sort of professional development.  If you do your teaching job correctly then you have virtually NO free time during the day.  This is why we tell kids everything you need to know after practice.  Once practice is over it's time to go home and be with your family - not to get on the computer or phone to update parents.  

 

Come on.  Respectfully, that is a cop out.  With today's technologies it is easy to communicate.  Our varsity coach sends an email to everyone in the program - freshman to Senior - regarding off season workouts, tryouts, fund raisers, etc.  He uses google calendar for schedules.  We have everything thru the summer.  Then you have group texts, twitter and such.  One of the better apps is team snap.  A few clicks and everyone is updated.    

No it's not a copout.  It's a true fact that if you do your job as a teacher it's hard to find time to do everything needed.  What does your head coach teach?

CoachB25 posted:

This is my 29th year of coaching HS and 30th if you count my student teaching experience.  I have been the HC in 4 sports.  I have assisted in several more.  I once coached the freshman, sophomore and JV boy's basketball teams in the same season.  I've been an assistant baseball coach on two state championship teams and a state runner up.  I have coached baseball internationally and did so in the former Soviet Union when they were setting up their Olympic Teams.  I've never had a losing season in any sport.  I would not be the choice of a varsity coach for many in this thread.   That's fine.

I have a parent's meeting and I set the rules.  If you want to talk, we can set something up with the AD.  I have always made sure that I have exceptional assistant coaches.  Almost all were/are former players of mine.  They know the system backwards and forward.  They can read my mind.  I don't need outside advice.  I will establish a report with my players.  They will be able to talk to me about almost anything and if they aren't playing, you can bet, I have already had a talk to them about that.  Here is something some of you aren't thinking or maybe just don't care about, if you and I have a talk and then your son gets playing time, it will be assumed it was because of our talk and not because your son earned it.  If we talk, you can bet every other parent is going to want to talk.  It won't take long before there is a confrontation.  

I'll wrap up by saying that I've been so blessed with the parents I have had.  I had one dad try to intimidate me by threats my first year.  That didn't work out too well for him.  I have had a physical confrontation with another.  I have carried one dad out of the park since he was belligerent during a game and no administration was around.  That dad ended up in prison.  So, basically three or four bad parents out of hundreds of great parents.  As I wrapped up practice tonight, I was yelling orders etc. when we were being told to get out of the gym as the opposing basketball team entered.  One parent must have made some remarks about me yelling.  One of my players said to me as we exited the gym, "Please don't ever change coach."  That's enough for me. 

CoachB25 awesome experience. You sound like a player's coach. I'd want my son playing for you.

I think that there are two types of sideline coaches. One that just doesn't know any better who will come up to the dugout and try to coach little Johnny thinking that it is atom ball, however in my experience these people when confronted will walk away happily not realizing the error that they made until they were confronted. Very Harmless. 

The second are much more sick i truly believe. When I was in 8th grade both of my parents were scared to come to games because they did not want to see each other (Divorced) My coach threw me anywhere from 21-58 innings a week. (I coach now but can not throw a ball more than 20 feet without extreme pain) This coach went to coach his son and daughter in high school from the bench calling pitches and yelling commands until a coach that I admire put him in his place.( He had him banned from the premises)  I have not had much contact with the man however I did see him about 6 years ago when I was at the hospital getting a check up after one of my shoulder surgeries. He stopped me and said, "See man aren't you glad that I did not throw you that much so you could have a great high school career!" The guy was so warped in the head and had who he was so tide up in winning at the youth levels that he did not (in my opinion) even remember how much he had me throw to get there.

Now I do believe that parents should step at some point, but the point I am trying to make is these people are sick and need to be removed! There needs to be something and if there is I am sorry, that you can contact if you see a pitcher being abused or a coach acting out of line... End soap box

So I guess in closing these people who go to the sideline during a game to MF coaches, or are just out of line need to be dealt with as if they have a serious mental illness. I know it sounds crazy but I strongly believe that if you allow them to continue it will only get worse and worse until they self destruct and not only take a season away from the young men and women who are playing but also possible do some serious damage to kids either to their psyche or their health.

Sorry usually don't post but have seen first hand how this can be a terrible things for our youth.  

BDB posted:

I think that there are two types of sideline coaches. One that just doesn't know any better who will come up to the dugout and try to coach little Johnny thinking that it is atom ball, however in my experience these people when confronted will walk away happily not realizing the error that they made until they were confronted. Very Harmless. 

The second are much more sick i truly believe. When I was in 8th grade both of my parents were scared to come to games because they did not want to see each other (Divorced) My coach threw me anywhere from 21-58 innings a week. (I coach now but can not throw a ball more than 20 feet without extreme pain) This coach went to coach his son and daughter in high school from the bench calling pitches and yelling commands until a coach that I admire put him in his place.( He had him banned from the premises)  I have not had much contact with the man however I did see him about 6 years ago when I was at the hospital getting a check up after one of my shoulder surgeries. He stopped me and said, "See man aren't you glad that I did not throw you that much so you could have a great high school career!" The guy was so warped in the head and had who he was so tide up in winning at the youth levels that he did not (in my opinion) even remember how much he had me throw to get there.

Now I do believe that parents should step at some point, but the point I am trying to make is these people are sick and need to be removed! There needs to be something and if there is I am sorry, that you can contact if you see a pitcher being abused or a coach acting out of line... End soap box

So I guess in closing these people who go to the sideline during a game to MF coaches, or are just out of line need to be dealt with as if they have a serious mental illness. I know it sounds crazy but I strongly believe that if you allow them to continue it will only get worse and worse until they self destruct and not only take a season away from the young men and women who are playing but also possible do some serious damage to kids either to their psyche or their health.

 

Sorry usually don't post but have seen first hand how this can be a terrible things for our youth.  

 

Thank you for posting BDB, and I also wish their was a number to report youth pitcher abuse.  Sadly, the parents are usually not educated about potential damage. All they can see is their son's next strike out and not what the results of all those strike outs might be in 5 years. 

Maybe every youth coach should take a moment to educate the parents on the guidelines in place for youth baseball pitching, why they are so important, and what to look out for if and when they leave his team.

On the youth pitcher abuse hotline note, High School JV opening day doubleheader last Saturday - coach throws the game one starter all 7 innings, complete game. Kid hadn't thrown more than three innings all fall / winter season. The kids parents said nothing, I wanted to go out & pull him off the bump myself. Best part? He then starts that same kid at SS in game two, and plays him all 7 innings there, so constant throwing for another two hours. He's a nice player, but not all-world. Zero reason to do this, especially on opening day - why risk the kids whole season? And this is the high school coach - not a dad. 

How many pitches did he throw over those 7 innings?  What age is he? What does his typical bullpen session look like? How long was his longest inning?

I had two kids throw complete games our first two games of the season last weekend. Well within what they were prepared for. Would you pull my kids off the mound too? I may be an idiot, I don't know.

ironhorse posted:

How many pitches did he throw over those 7 innings?  What age is he? What does his typical bullpen session look like? How long was his longest inning?

I had two kids throw complete games our first two games of the season last weekend. Well within what they were prepared for. Would you pull my kids off the mound too? I may be an idiot, I don't know.

 

15 years old. Bullpen sessions a few times a week, nothing formal and very minimal supervision (from what the kids say, I've never watched a practice). 

And yes I would advocate pulling the kid AND the coach being an idiot IF: 

1) You went from a fixed 50 pitch / 3 inning limit the weeks & months before to a 120 pitch complete game just because this game "counted". 44 pitches after the first two innings - anything but an easy start to the game. 

2) And if you then took that same kid after 120 pitches and put him at SS for that much more stress on his arm. 

3) And if you looked at the schedule, and saw that we only had four games over the next three weeks (including these two) and decided to not throw more kids for a multitude of reasons (How do they perform in a real game? If you don't throw them this week, then they won't have thrown in a game for 20 days, how do you expect them to perform when they get on the mound three weeks from their last inning? Once we get into three game weeks we need more than two pitchers, so maybe I should throw more than two guys?)  

I wasn't alone in this. The game two starters parents called him over between games and told him to tell the coach 4 innings or 60 pitches, whichever came first. He came out after 4 while throwing a no-hitter. His arm was more important than the game. 

My kid doesn't pitch, so I have no dog in this fight other than the kids safety. No one gets into college or gets a great job because of their JV baseball resume. Be smart. 

That makes sense. Throwing 120 any time is dicey, this early and at 15 is generally just not smart I agree.

Just saying throwing "7 innings" is why I had questions. That alone doesn't tell me much. 

Fwiw my kids threw 68 and 80 pitch CGs, and had thrown 50-60 pitches already twice in scrimmages. And both are seniors. Just pointing out that looking at all the info is good. And what you added makes you thoughts seem pretty common sensical.

This is why I am in no hurry to have my 10(will be 11next month) really learn/practice how to pitch.  He is coached on how to, but thankfully isn't one of the faster kids right now so doesn't pitch much in any of the travel games.  The kids are limited to 2 innings anyway, but one of the kids who pitches had a separation in his growth plate, but his dad and mom keep having him pitch, even at home after practices.  He took him to the doctor, the doctor said probably should lay off, the dad goes on the internet, reads that it is OK to pitch as long as there is no pain, so he has his kid pitch.  The kid is 11, what are you thinking?????  Sad really.

Dadof3 posted:

This is why I am in no hurry to have my 10(will be 11next month) really learn/practice how to pitch.  He is coached on how to, but thankfully isn't one of the faster kids right now so doesn't pitch much in any of the travel games.  The kids are limited to 2 innings anyway, but one of the kids who pitches had a separation in his growth plate, but his dad and mom keep having him pitch, even at home after practices.  He took him to the doctor, the doctor said probably should lay off, the dad goes on the internet, reads that it is OK to pitch as long as there is no pain, so he has his kid pitch.  The kid is 11, what are you thinking?????  Sad really.

As I've said before, there is nothing you can do at 10-11 to make your kid an MLB player, but you can certainly do things that will guarantee they never will be.

Dadof3 posted:

This is why I am in no hurry to have my 10(will be 11next month) really learn/practice how to pitch.  He is coached on how to, but thankfully isn't one of the faster kids right now so doesn't pitch much in any of the travel games.  The kids are limited to 2 innings anyway, but one of the kids who pitches had a separation in his growth plate, but his dad and mom keep having him pitch, even at home after practices.  He took him to the doctor, the doctor said probably should lay off, the dad goes on the internet, reads that it is OK to pitch as long as there is no pain, so he has his kid pitch.  The kid is 11, what are you thinking?????  Sad really.

Pitching at this age is OK as long as it's done within limits.  What's important, IMHO, at this age is that whether for pitching or just throwing, proper mechanics needs to be taught and the kid needs to practice and play with those mechanics so that as they get older it all has become natural.  

Parents need to be informed and educated about the various risks and then take care of their kid so that there can be many years of joy playing this game.   That's what I'm thinking.

Golfman25 posted:

coach2709 posted:

 

The other point I was trying to make is (and maybe in my angry slapping of keys didn't come out very well) there is a hierarchy on any team.  It starts with the head coach, then asst coaches, then players and finally players.  When people talk about wanting communication from coaches in my experience we tell your kids everything you need to know.  Now if your kid can't get that information to you the problem isn't with the coach but with the kid.  That was your job as a parent.  Why can't a teacher / coach just send out an email to communicate.  Well let me tell you why.  Not only do I have to teach my full schedule and actively engage my kids from bell to bell but I have to grade papers, talk to kids between classes, try to use the bathroom during  between classes while supervising halls at the same time.  Then we have to have IEP meetings with any kid who has special needs (which is amazing how many kids can be labeled with something now) or we have other meetings we get to go to because we have to always be doing some sort of professional development.  If you do your teaching job correctly then you have virtually NO free time during the day.  This is why we tell kids everything you need to know after practice.  Once practice is over it's time to go home and be with your family - not to get on the computer or phone to update parents.  

 

Come on.  Respectfully, that is a cop out.  With today's technologies it is easy to communicate.  Our varsity coach sends an email to everyone in the program - freshman to Senior - regarding off season workouts, tryouts, fund raisers, etc.  He uses google calendar for schedules.  We have everything thru the summer.  Then you have group texts, twitter and such.  One of the better apps is team snap.  A few clicks and everyone is updated.    

I wouldn't say it's a cop out.  My son's HS coach was also a teacher and believe me, his day was pretty full  - especially during tryouts and the season.

Once tryouts were completed and the team selected he would have a mandatory meeting with players and parents and go over everything.  He would even meet privately with the parents & player outlining what he felt (at that time) the players role would be (PO, starter, etc).  That was the time to ask questions.  He would meet with the parents during the course of the season if you had questions or concerns, but never directly after a game.  He schedule a date and time.  Think about - after a home game he (with team's assistance) have to do field maintenance, etc and after an away game they are loading up to go home.  There's no time for a meeting.

My son's college coaches (JuCo and D2) communicated via text messages.  It was the responsibility of the player to forward any necessary communication to his parents.

Remember, whether it be HS or college, it's his team.  Your only responsibility as parent is to show up for games.  Yes, if there is a concern that needs to be communicated, then make an appointment.

I never understood parents who felt it necessary to coach from the bleachers.  Coaching is done in practice by the coaches, not in the middle of the game.  At that point the coach is trying to manage the game.

Old School I understand and wish I could do something about those guys that abuse players, are creeps to everyone involved and make sure that young men have a great experience.  Unfortunately, somehow these guys who abuse the position ruin it for all of us. 

2NDMARDIV, thanks for the compliment.  I love coaching. 

To touch a little on what COACH2709 said, the teaching profession is undergoing drastic changes.  In fact, they are so drastic that I have given my notice (4 year notice at start of this school year) for retirement.  I had my evaluation this year.  It was a nightmare with all of the forms, the new evaluation tools, the new standards, ...  Thank goodness that I somehow did well.  Now, we are changing every thing from what I've done in the past to Google Classroom.  I have to learn everything again.  I have to change the format of everything I have done for 29 years.  So, when you say that something like communication is easy while also suggesting that it isn't time consuming, which email do I use now?  I now have 3 for school and will have another next year which will replace the first 3.   

CoachB25 posted:

Old School I understand and wish I could do something about those guys that abuse players, are creeps to everyone involved and make sure that young men have a great experience.  Unfortunately, somehow these guys who abuse the position ruin it for all of us. 

2NDMARDIV, thanks for the compliment.  I love coaching. 

To touch a little on what COACH2709 said, the teaching profession is undergoing drastic changes.  In fact, they are so drastic that I have given my notice (4 year notice at start of this school year) for retirement.  I had my evaluation this year.  It was a nightmare with all of the forms, the new evaluation tools, the new standards, ...  Thank goodness that I somehow did well.  Now, we are changing every thing from what I've done in the past to Google Classroom.  I have to learn everything again.  I have to change the format of everything I have done for 29 years.  So, when you say that something like communication is easy while also suggesting that it isn't time consuming, which email do I use now?  I now have 3 for school and will have another next year which will replace the first 3.   

What???  Too hard to teach from within a straitjacket?  

Read an article just the other day about why so many teachers are either leaving the profession, not staying in long or choosing some other venue after getting their teaching degrees.   It's a sad state of affairs, IMHO.

CoachB25 I feel your pain and when it's time to hang up my chalk (which hasn't been used in almost two decades) and turn in my gradebook (also with computers something we don't use anymore) I'm heading out to pasture........or I'm going to find a new job because I doubt my retirement will be enough to live on after 30 years of teaching.  I have 12 years left.

The whole observation thing makes no sense to me.  For some reason my admin thinks I'm good enough teacher to be a peer observer.  Just this week I had to give two observations to my fellow teachers, write up the report, make sure all the boxes were checked and then follow up with a post observation meeting.  Now the software to do all this IS NOT USER FRIENDLY AT ALL.  I couldn't finalize the first observation because I had no idea what to click.  My asst principal had to walk me through it.  Now you may ask why do I not know how the software works if I'm entrusted to do something as important as judge a fellow teacher - they don't train us on it.  I'm given some vague instructions on how to do it then expected to do it.

But not only am I giving observations but I get observed as well.  Which is fun when a worker from the county board of education shows up in the middle of class to fix something and they need me.  So here me and my class go on a field trip to wherever because I can't leave my kids unsupervised.  So with all this going on you better believe my test scores better be good or I'm in trouble.  Fall of last school year I actually taught two classes at once.  I had a PE class for field maintenance where we would take care of facilities and set up for events.  Then I was given a World History class to teach that same period because another teacher had 50 kids in her class.  I actually volunteered to take the World History class but I said to get rid of the Field Maintenance class because I only had 4 kids in it.  Nope they told me to do both and World History is a state test subject.  My FM kids would come to my class and I would tell them what to do and they went and did it.......unsupervised while I taught WH.  But there were several times I took the WH class on a field trip to the football stadium to work on something while I painted the football field with my FM class.  Somehow my WH kids all exceeded expected growth which means my test scores were good.

While other teachers may not do exactly what I do; they do have other things going on that take up time.  Who do you think supervises all the different clubs?  Like I said if you do your teaching job correctly you have very little free time.  If you coach then you have even less.  I'm sorry but that's not a cop out and I understand you weren't trying to be "that" guy and I didn't take what you said as being "that" guy.  

Teaching is not a good profession right now.  I moved to NC 8 years ago and the year I got here they froze salaries.  I haven't had a cost of living raise in 8 years and in fact I've lost money.  My salary was frozen but the cost of my medical insurance has went up twice in the 8 years.  So I'm technically bringing home more money now than before with a frozen salary.

I would hate to live in an area where the HS coaches have a reputation of knowing less than travel ball coaches. Thankfully where we live we have really competitive high school baseball coached by guys who know baseball and are in touch with recruiting and college programs. 

We do however deal with parents who believe they know baseball better than the coaches. It's very easy to sit in the stands and second guess. I had a parent/friend come to me the day after the game and wanted to know why in the world we bunted the 4 hole last night. Who in their right mind bunts the 4 hole? Of course, his son is the 4 hole hitter. I just let him rant and rave for a minute, then I asked what bunt defense were they in? He replied what do you mean? I mean, who was covering the bunt? He didn't know. I asked where the 3rd baseman was playing. He didn't know. I then asked him how many times his son batted 4th. He said he's batted fourth all year. I said no, he hits in the 4 hole, he was lead off when we bunted him. I think most, not all, parents are focused on their son and not seeing the overall picture sometimes. This perception leads to the HS coach not knowing what he is doing, when reality is that the parent doesn't see the big picture.

The "coaches" in the stands have the benefit of hindsight to become smarter than the coach in the dugout. They see the end result of the play and know they wouldn't have done that. But how many of actually knew going into the play all or most of the variables? Plus just because the play didn't go the way you wanted doesn't mean it was the wrong one. Third base coach sends a runner and he's out doesn't mean it was the wrong call. Maybe the OF had terrible throws in warm ups or earlier in the game and THIS time he makes the throw of his life. You send a guy on a steal and he's thrown out. Maybe the kid got a bad jump or the pitcher went against his pattern and threw a fastball when he normally threw a curve. But the "coach" in the stands sees him get thrown out and says he wouldn't have done that or the coach is stupid for trying that. Yet they didn't factor any of the pre-pitch info into a decision. If someone in the stands actually did that they wouldn't be criticizing the coach because they get it. 

When I coached football I was the offensive coordinator for 4 years. I called many plays that resulted in touchdowns. I also called many plays that resulted in loss of yards. In both situations sometimes they didn't work out and sometimes they were dumb calls. It happens. We were down in a close game late but driving. Got to an important 3rd and short. I called our best short yardage play to our best running back. We typically got 3 - 4 yards on this play. This is the play we run the best. Why wouldn't we call it? But the defense knows all this and is probably going to call their defense to stop this. We snapped the ball and next thing you know we lose about 3 yards. Now 4th down and we don't concert and that basically ends the game. Our best vs their best and they won. It happens. Walking off the field this idiot parent is ranting and raving to other parents about how stupid I was. He was saying loud enough for me to hear. Well I was ticked off (and luckily there was a fence between us) and went over to him. I asked him what he would run, how successful were we with that play all season, what defense was the other team in and several other questions. He actually said he would run a play that was out of the I formation yet we were a spread offense. I asked him how could we run a play that we don't have in and doesn't even fit our personnel or scheme? Then I added if I knew the play was going to get blown up I wouldn't have called it. I called a play we were successful with all season. Then walked off.

Watching film the hole was there but one of the linemen had missed his block which blew up the play. One kid missed his assignment that he had got all year and it cost us the game. Things like that are what the "coaches" in the standS don't understand. It was the right play and one out of 11 people didn't do their job yet I'm the idiot. Know your role, know your ability and knowledge level before you go shooting off at the mouth.

coach2709 posted:

The "coaches" in the stands have the benefit of hindsight to become smarter than the coach in the dugout. They see the end result of the play and know they wouldn't have done that. But how many of actually knew going into the play all or most of the variables? Plus just because the play didn't go the way you wanted doesn't mean it was the wrong one. Third base coach sends a runner and he's out doesn't mean it was the wrong call. Maybe the OF had terrible throws in warm ups or earlier in the game and THIS time he makes the throw of his life. You send a guy on a steal and he's thrown out. Maybe the kid got a bad jump or the pitcher went against his pattern and threw a fastball when he normally threw a curve. But the "coach" in the stands sees him get thrown out and says he wouldn't have done that or the coach is stupid for trying that. Yet they didn't factor any of the pre-pitch info into a decision. If someone in the stands actually did that they wouldn't be criticizing the coach because they get it. 

When I coached football I was the offensive coordinator for 4 years. I called many plays that resulted in touchdowns. I also called many plays that resulted in loss of yards. In both situations sometimes they didn't work out and sometimes they were dumb calls. It happens. We were down in a close game late but driving. Got to an important 3rd and short. I called our best short yardage play to our best running back. We typically got 3 - 4 yards on this play. This is the play we run the best. Why wouldn't we call it? But the defense knows all this and is probably going to call their defense to stop this. We snapped the ball and next thing you know we lose about 3 yards. Now 4th down and we don't concert and that basically ends the game. Our best vs their best and they won. It happens. Walking off the field this idiot parent is ranting and raving to other parents about how stupid I was. He was saying loud enough for me to hear. Well I was ticked off (and luckily there was a fence between us) and went over to him. I asked him what he would run, how successful were we with that play all season, what defense was the other team in and several other questions. He actually said he would run a play that was out of the I formation yet we were a spread offense. I asked him how could we run a play that we don't have in and doesn't even fit our personnel or scheme? Then I added if I knew the play was going to get blown up I wouldn't have called it. I called a play we were successful with all season. Then walked off.

Watching film the hole was there but one of the linemen had missed his block which blew up the play. One kid missed his assignment that he had got all year and it cost us the game. Things like that are what the "coaches" in the standS don't understand. It was the right play and one out of 11 people didn't do their job yet I'm the idiot. Know your role, know your ability and knowledge level before you go shooting off at the mouth.

It's our sports culture to question the coaches and general managers.  They have created a whole talk radio industry out of it.  Take it with a gain of salt. 

coach2709 posted:

CoachB25 I feel your pain and when it's time to hang up my chalk (which hasn't been used in almost two decades) and turn in my gradebook (also with computers something we don't use anymore) I'm heading out to pasture........or I'm going to find a new job because I doubt my retirement will be enough to live on after 30 years of teaching.  I have 12 years left.

The whole observation thing makes no sense to me.  For some reason my admin thinks I'm good enough teacher to be a peer observer.  Just this week I had to give two observations to my fellow teachers, write up the report, make sure all the boxes were checked and then follow up with a post observation meeting.  Now the software to do all this IS NOT USER FRIENDLY AT ALL.  I couldn't finalize the first observation because I had no idea what to click.  My asst principal had to walk me through it.  Now you may ask why do I not know how the software works if I'm entrusted to do something as important as judge a fellow teacher - they don't train us on it.  I'm given some vague instructions on how to do it then expected to do it.

But not only am I giving observations but I get observed as well.  Which is fun when a worker from the county board of education shows up in the middle of class to fix something and they need me.  So here me and my class go on a field trip to wherever because I can't leave my kids unsupervised.  So with all this going on you better believe my test scores better be good or I'm in trouble.  Fall of last school year I actually taught two classes at once.  I had a PE class for field maintenance where we would take care of facilities and set up for events.  Then I was given a World History class to teach that same period because another teacher had 50 kids in her class.  I actually volunteered to take the World History class but I said to get rid of the Field Maintenance class because I only had 4 kids in it.  Nope they told me to do both and World History is a state test subject.  My FM kids would come to my class and I would tell them what to do and they went and did it.......unsupervised while I taught WH.  But there were several times I took the WH class on a field trip to the football stadium to work on something while I painted the football field with my FM class.  Somehow my WH kids all exceeded expected growth which means my test scores were good.

While other teachers may not do exactly what I do; they do have other things going on that take up time.  Who do you think supervises all the different clubs?  Like I said if you do your teaching job correctly you have very little free time.  If you coach then you have even less.  I'm sorry but that's not a cop out and I understand you weren't trying to be "that" guy and I didn't take what you said as being "that" guy.  

Teaching is not a good profession right now.  I moved to NC 8 years ago and the year I got here they froze salaries.  I haven't had a cost of living raise in 8 years and in fact I've lost money.  My salary was frozen but the cost of my medical insurance has went up twice in the 8 years.  So I'm technically bringing home more money now than before with a frozen salary.

If you think it is any better out in the private sector, I wish you luck.  These days, It's tough all over.