I think I had incorrectly mentioned that my son would be placed with the NYCBL. As it turns out, he signed his LOI contract yesterday to play next summer for the Jamestown Jammers of the PGCBL. I am looking for any relevant experiences or advise for the kid. We planned to visit for a week during the season, but man, it looks like the teams are fairly spread out. It also looks like they use host families.
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Contact Red Fish Fool. His son was there this past summer.
Why are you signing your son up to play college summer ball before he even goes to college?
Send him to summer school to start classes, and work with the strength trainer, get stronger, get orientated with school.
Most college pitchers who play college summer ball are given time off in the fall. Freshman need fall instruct and practice more than anyone.
Don't let anyone make you think he needs to play, even if he isn't pitching.
JMO
It's what his coach wants. Hell pitch half a season.
Not to mention, he will already be starting college as a sophomore so I don't see taking summer classes. If his coach feels a strong summer experience is a better choice for development, then...
Using his eligibility?
My 2016 played in the Perfect Game League the summer before his freshman year...he wanted so see what college competition would be like before he got on campus. Admittedly, he wasn't a pitcher, but he had a great experience, had a wonderful host family, learned how to navigate a clubhouse of new teammates and older players--made the All-Star team and was named All-League.
He also came on campus with enough AP credits to get a head start academically and is on pace to graduate in three years. He was All-Conference Academic...if he's there for all four years, he could be a grad student.
There are many paths out there...
TPM posted:Using his eligibility?
No, just academically. He will have completed his associates degree by the time he graduates high school. He had the credits needed to graduate last year and were approached about reclassifying him as a 2017, but he had no interest in that.
Thanks for the info!
Again contact RFF, son on that team.
Hey Root, sounds fun.
Son was assigned to a team in this league a few years ago, along with three or four of his D2 teammates. We did some league research and most teams have solid history and decent following. Not one of the top leagues as far as high level players but strong enough that he'll get a good dip in the water. Ultimately, son and his teammates (and their college coach) had issues because costs kept rising from the time they signed contracts so they eventually backed out. But this was isolated with this team and the team is no longer in the league.
Jamestown doesn't get huge crowds but several of the other teams in the league draw 1K plus. Mostly rural upstate NY towns. Jamestown is the geographic outlier and some of those bus rides will be on the long side. NY lakes region in the summer for a month or so doesn't suck. Half a season there sounds like an ideal intro to college summer ball. Do be aware of costs, however. The league seemed to be on the high side relative to other summer college leagues. For us, though, the kid would cost us more staying at home just with the increased grocery bill.
I think the important thing is to clarify and double check what role will be and what the plan would be for innings. That expense, time commitment and travel would be a shame if he ended up with virtually no innings or was put in harm's way with lack of rest between appearances.
roothog66 posted:No, just academically. He will have completed his associates degree by the time he graduates high school. He had the credits needed to graduate last year and were approached about reclassifying him as a 2017, but he had no interest in that.
Thanks for this. I was literally just about to ask if the NCAA had any problems with programs that allow students to simultaneously graduate from high school and also earn their associate's degree. Obviously there is no issue. Great to hear!
This is a pretty strong league. Jamestown was ranked 25th in the nation in overall summer collegiate rankings. Amsterdam was ranked 7th. Neither team won the league. That was the Mohawk valley diamond dawgs. My son played in this league last year. The top teams will have arms and players from Universities of Virginia. South Carolina, clemson, Miss. State, Ky, Louisville, big ten, acc, and sec. It will also have teams that are comprised of d2 and d3 talent. Your longest drive will be 5 hours for one game. Most games are within 2-3 hour drive range.
As in any league. Do your due diligence on the teams. As CoachMarch points out. There are differences in the level each team recruits from. I am not trying to diminish the teams that are D2 and D3 focused. But in every league there are well run teams and not so well run. (Cape and maybe Northwoods might be exceptions here.)
The PGCBL is a newer league, but most of these teams played in the old NYCBL, so have been around for a while. Some of the teams have moved back and forth between the two leagues.
I find it interesting that the league is admitting promising, rising Freshmen, before they have even stepped on campus. Good for them. There has been some pent up demand for that. Always quite a few conversations on this site about it.
BishopLeftiesDad posted:As in any league. Do your due diligence on the teams. As CoachMarch points out. There are differences in the level each team recruits from. I am not trying to diminish the teams that are D2 and D3 focused. But in every league there are well run teams and not so well run. (Cape and maybe Northwoods might be exceptions here.)
The PGCBL is a newer league, but most of these teams played in the old NYCBL, so have been around for a while. Some of the teams have moved back and forth between the two leagues.
I find it interesting that the league is admitting promising, rising Freshmen, before they have even stepped on campus. Good for them. There has been some pent up demand for that. Always quite a few conversations on this site about it.
Yeah, if you browse the rosters, there are a LOT of freshmen in this league.
cabbagedad posted:BishopLeftiesDad posted:As in any league. Do your due diligence on the teams. As CoachMarch points out. There are differences in the level each team recruits from. I am not trying to diminish the teams that are D2 and D3 focused. But in every league there are well run teams and not so well run. (Cape and maybe Northwoods might be exceptions here.)
The PGCBL is a newer league, but most of these teams played in the old NYCBL, so have been around for a while. Some of the teams have moved back and forth between the two leagues.
I find it interesting that the league is admitting promising, rising Freshmen, before they have even stepped on campus. Good for them. There has been some pent up demand for that. Always quite a few conversations on this site about it.
Yeah, if you browse the rosters, there are a LOT of freshmen in this league.
I had not gone that far. But I wonder if this will become a freshmen dominated league and upper classmen gravitating/being sent to other leagues. Not sure my son would have been thrilled being a Rising Junior or Senior and being in a league with many rising Freshmen.
BishopLeftiesDad posted:cabbagedad posted:BishopLeftiesDad posted:As in any league. Do your due diligence on the teams. As CoachMarch points out. There are differences in the level each team recruits from. I am not trying to diminish the teams that are D2 and D3 focused. But in every league there are well run teams and not so well run. (Cape and maybe Northwoods might be exceptions here.)
The PGCBL is a newer league, but most of these teams played in the old NYCBL, so have been around for a while. Some of the teams have moved back and forth between the two leagues.
I find it interesting that the league is admitting promising, rising Freshmen, before they have even stepped on campus. Good for them. There has been some pent up demand for that. Always quite a few conversations on this site about it.
Yeah, if you browse the rosters, there are a LOT of freshmen in this league.
I had not gone that far. But I wonder if this will become a freshmen dominated league and upper classmen gravitating/being sent to other leagues. Not sure my son would have been thrilled being a Rising Junior or Senior and being in a league with many rising Freshmen.
I found 21 in the league last season. That comes out to less than two per roster, so I wouldn't call that "many."
As of two summers ago, there was a limit of two rising freshmen per team.
Albany had 15 freshman alone. a couple were RS Freshman. I counted 18 between jamestown and Adirondack. Here is Albanies roster. http://www.pgcbl.com/rosters/dutchmen/ Its not really important, I am not trying to show you up, just wanted to show there are a lot of frosh. But most leagues are this way except the Cape, Coastal, and Northwoods. They kind of want proven commodities there.
I may be getting out of practice and reading the rosters wrong... I saw a ton of players listed as freshmen. I was thinking that was rising.
PS - looks like I was typing same time as coach
I'm pretty sure those are players who have completed their freshmen year on campus, not RISING freshmen..
Just as a random example, the first two freshmen listed on Jamestown's roster, Connor Rule and Matt Cross, have both played one full season of college baseball.
Yeah. Rising freshmen are listed as "Freshman 2017/18" on the rosters.
Coachmarcohioelite posted:Albany had 15 freshman alone. a couple were RS Freshman. I counted 18 between jamestown and Adirondack. Here is Albanies roster. http://www.pgcbl.com/rosters/dutchmen/ Its not really important, I am not trying to show you up, just wanted to show there are a lot of frosh. But most leagues are this way except the Cape, Coastal, and Northwoods. They kind of want proven commodities there.
Albany is one of the few teams with no rising freshmen. Most have one or two. Adirondack has one listed "Freshman 2017-18."
Wow looking at those rosters, it sure makes me feel good that my son is pitcher. Close to 50% of all players in that league are PO's...
In the leagues my son participated in he was always listed as his rising class. So when he was after his soph he was listed, as a Junior, after his junior year he was listed as a senior. He did not play in the PGCBL though. He played in the Great Lakes and Valley.
BishopLeftiesDad posted:In the leagues my son participated in he was always listed as his rising class. So when he was after his soph he was listed, as a Junior, after his junior year he was listed as a senior. He did not play in the PGCBL though. He played in the Great Lakes and Valley.
Great Lakes teams show a lot of freshman, so I assume they all do it based on the season just completed rather than rising. May have been some mass change because the same goes for Northwoods.
BishopLeftiesDad posted:In the leagues my son participated in he was always listed as his rising class. So when he was after his soph he was listed, as a Junior, after his junior year he was listed as a senior. He did not play in the PGCBL though. He played in the Great Lakes and Valley.
Thanks BLD, I thought I was losing my mind. OK, I probably still am but.... aaaanyway..... looks like some teams/leagues are starting to do things differently. You know, cuz we need MORE confusion to keep track of.
MLB and pro scouts tell us (Valley) to list players by what they will be in the fall following their summer season as that's what matters draft-wise. That's how VBL rosters are done. We also had pro scouts tells us it was not a good thing to allow graduated high school seniors to play, so we don't. They felt that in some fashion it "lessened" the league. Overwhelmingly, the Valley has mostly D I players, a decent number of D II's, and some D III's. The league MVP this past summer from Charlottesville was a D III that had one heck of a summer. D III's had been getting to be small in number but it seems the pendulum is swing back a little.
hokieone posted:MLB and pro scouts tell us (Valley) to list players by what they will be in the fall following their summer season as that's what matters draft-wise. That's how VBL rosters are done. We also had pro scouts tells us it was not a good thing to allow graduated high school seniors to play, so we don't. They felt that in some fashion it "lessened" the league. Overwhelmingly, the Valley has mostly D I players, a decent number of D II's, and some D III's. The league MVP this past summer from Charlottesville was a D III that had one heck of a summer. D III's had been getting to be small in number but it seems the pendulum is swing back a little.
I like your reply, the reason being that there are so many players already in programs who are looking for opportunities and can't find them. Or maybe there are so many summer leagues now, that they have trouble filling roster spots?
While I feel that playing in a summer league program is important, it's more important that young pitchers are monitored closely even before they begin their college career. It's very important to know who will be coaching your pitcher and the teams approach to managing pitchers.
JMO
hokieone posted:MLB and pro scouts tell us (Valley) to list players by what they will be in the fall following their summer season as that's what matters draft-wise. That's how VBL rosters are done. We also had pro scouts tells us it was not a good thing to allow graduated high school seniors to play, so we don't. They felt that in some fashion it "lessened" the league. Overwhelmingly, the Valley has mostly D I players, a decent number of D II's, and some D III's. The league MVP this past summer from Charlottesville was a D III that had one heck of a summer. D III's had been getting to be small in number but it seems the pendulum is swing back a little.
Just a look at Valley rosters showed several players listed as "freshman." A quick checknshiws they were in high school in 2017.
My mistake. Those are 2018 rosters. Surprised they are listed so early.
TPM posted:hokieone posted:MLB and pro scouts tell us (Valley) to list players by what they will be in the fall following their summer season as that's what matters draft-wise. That's how VBL rosters are done. We also had pro scouts tells us it was not a good thing to allow graduated high school seniors to play, so we don't. They felt that in some fashion it "lessened" the league. Overwhelmingly, the Valley has mostly D I players, a decent number of D II's, and some D III's. The league MVP this past summer from Charlottesville was a D III that had one heck of a summer. D III's had been getting to be small in number but it seems the pendulum is swing back a little.
I like your reply, the reason being that there are so many players already in programs who are looking for opportunities and can't find them. Or maybe there are so many summer leagues now, that they have trouble filling roster spots?
While I feel that playing in a summer league program is important, it's more important that young pitchers are monitored closely even before they begin their college career. It's very important to know who will be coaching your pitcher and the teams approach to managing pitchers.
JMO
I think it's more a problem of not enough pitching. More coaches than ever are holding their pitchers out of summer leagues or are limiting them to half seasons and low pitch counts, so teams need to stack up far more pitching than they did a few years ago.
roothog66 posted:My mistake. Those are 2018 rosters. Surprised they are listed so early.
The Valley is very good at updating rosters as players sign. As Hokie, has explained, in another thread, signings are happening earlier and earlier. Most teams in the Valley League, get the little things right. That's very important.
roothog66 posted:TPM posted:hokieone posted:MLB and pro scouts tell us (Valley) to list players by what they will be in the fall following their summer season as that's what matters draft-wise. That's how VBL rosters are done. We also had pro scouts tells us it was not a good thing to allow graduated high school seniors to play, so we don't. They felt that in some fashion it "lessened" the league. Overwhelmingly, the Valley has mostly D I players, a decent number of D II's, and some D III's. The league MVP this past summer from Charlottesville was a D III that had one heck of a summer. D III's had been getting to be small in number but it seems the pendulum is swing back a little.
I like your reply, the reason being that there are so many players already in programs who are looking for opportunities and can't find them. Or maybe there are so many summer leagues now, that they have trouble filling roster spots?
While I feel that playing in a summer league program is important, it's more important that young pitchers are monitored closely even before they begin their college career. It's very important to know who will be coaching your pitcher and the teams approach to managing pitchers.
JMO
I think it's more a problem of not enough pitching. More coaches than ever are holding their pitchers out of summer leagues or are limiting them to half seasons and low pitch counts, so teams need to stack up far more pitching than they did a few years ago.
Root,
If a pitcher is a starter, they should become relief guys and vice versa as per coaches request. As a freshman, son logged lots innings, so KO'Sullivan didnt let him go to Cape. Also this allowed him to be well rested for fall instruction, which to me is way more important for young pitchers than summer ball.
If what you say is true, its important to make sure that pitchers entering college arent over used.
Just remember one thing, its still about winning and we all know what that means!!! Once again, my advice to anyone, do research on the HC and his pitching coach.
It is a pretty well run league. Some of the communities provide solid support to the teams. Some have sparse crowds. Travel not too bad. I think your son will have a fun and educational experience. It seemed like the team we experienced did a good job with host families.
Good luck,Ted
In our case, a member of the CSUN staff is on the Jammer's coaching staff. I assume that had something to do with the choice of placement.
FWIW, Summer before freshman year PC told Son no summer ball. Sent him a workout schedule to follow and said to show up in August in shape.
Most HC's don't want to risk their guy over throwing or getting hurt. Fall of freshman year is a hard transition. Best to be well prepared.
Picked Off posted:FWIW, Summer before freshman year PC told Son no summer ball. Sent him a workout schedule to follow and said to show up in August in shape.
Most HC's don't want to risk their guy over throwing or getting hurt. Fall of freshman year is a hard transition. Best to be well prepared.
I am with you. Fall for freshman is about working with the pitching coach (instruction) bull pens and practice. Doesnt matter what level you are enrolled in. The transition is hard. These days most coaches prefer workouts to playing for incoming freshman.
I can also see, however, where a coach who knows he won't need much from an incoming freshman he hopes will have more impact sophomore year might want him to use the summer for development knowing he won't get many innings in the spring.
roothog66 posted:I can also see, however, where a coach who knows he won't need much from an incoming freshman he hopes will have more impact sophomore year might want him to use the summer for development knowing he won't get many innings in the spring.
That would be, a waste of the players eligibility. JMO.
How does a coach know that before the player even sets foot on campus, goes through fall conditioning, instruction, practice, etc.
The good part is that your son can always change his mind.
Sending you a pm.
Living in New England means there is quite a bit of college summer ball near me. I know a couple of schools, Vanderbilt and St. Johns to name two, who have rising freshmen, including pitchers, playing college summer ball before they get to campus.
