Perfect Game rating system

quote:

Originally posted by itsinthegame:
TR,

Based on Darkmoon's postings - which is all we have to go by - let me take a shot:

1) To denigrate Perfect Game. That one is pretty clear.

2) To insist that because you are from the North (however it is defined) you have no right to have any talent. Despite the facts over the last 50 years. If you are from the "North" you should get lower ratings than someone from the South or West. Automatically. LOL.
That one is pretty clear.

3) To accuse posters (that would be me) of being drug users. That one is pretty clear.

Basically - it is all pretty clear.
LOL

The hypocrite is back. Like I said before,attack the messanger if you don't have the facts.

To question Perfect is not to denigrate Perfect Game.

I never said that the northern players don't have any talent,

Calling you on drugs was just a common phrase to make a point.Stop being so hysterical already especially considering that you insulted me first......

PS. This is just a web site isn't it?

Darkmoon,

You also called a youth player out - by name.
That is as low as it gets IMO.

That is taboo on this site.
You should be gone.

I hope that happens soon.
Good luck.

dmoon, as long as Iowa is not gonna be defined as a northern state, could you please move Ohio south??

I'm tired of shoveling this darn snow!

.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by itsinthegame:
Darkmoon,

You also called a youth player out - by name.
That is as low as it gets IMO.

That is taboo on this site.
You should be gone.


So you are the moderator now? I tell you what, I will leave if you leave. You violated the rules hypocrite.

I never called the kid out as you phrased it. I used him as an example of how incomplete a rating and profile can be from Perfect Game.I said that he could be a great player but his finish is really messed up.

I agree that I shouldn't have posted his name in light of the hysteria on this web site. I didn't want to contact PG Staff directly with my concerns because he was already too defensive IMHO.

People love to take things out of context and stir up more controversy.It's the American way these days.

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:
dmoon, as long as Iowa is not gonna be defined as a northern state, could you please move Ohio south??

I'm tired of shoveling this darn snow!

.

Bee,
you got to love the snow if you live up north.I lived in an area where the average snowfall was over 250 inches some years......

quote:

Originally posted by darkmoon:

So you are the moderator now? I tell you what, I will leave if you leave. You violated the rules hypocrite.

If I were the moderator - you would have been gone quite awhile ago.

quote:

Originally posted by itsinthegame:

quote:

Originally posted by darkmoon:

So you are the moderator now? I tell you what, I will leave if you leave. You violated the rules hypocrite.

If I were the moderator - you would have been gone quite awhile ago.

You would have made a good NAZI... As moderator start with yourself first and then we can go from there.You broke the first two rules on the board manners.As for me I will live with what I said. You go I go.

PS.Don't you think it's time to give it a rest? I am beginning to think you actually are on something to carry this on .How about this? I am sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way. Northern Players could have as much talent if they had as good of coaching and competition ect.I still reserve the right to question some things about the Perfect Game process but I went about it the wrong way and set the wrong tone.

Darkmoon,

You would have made a great diplomat.



P.S. - Seems to me you didnt like the list PG put up - re: 1st 3 rounds of the draft. Hard to stomach huh? LOL

DarkMoon

I would be careful where I go with this Northern Baseball stuff that you spout---it might you egg on your face at the very least

quote:

Originally posted by itsinthegame:
Darkmoon,

You would have made a great diplomat.



P.S. - Seems to me you didnt like the list PG put up - re: 1st 3 rounds of the draft. Hard to stomach huh? LOL

Well I am not applying for any job at the UN.

PS. I bet you didn't like the more comprehensive data I've provided,

Can we get along now, or at least disagree in a more civil manner?

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
DarkMoon

I would be careful where I go with this Northern Baseball stuff that you spout---it might you egg on your face at the very least

Well I ready have egg on my face in regards to baseballdad1228. If his son is the boy I am thinking of, he can play on any team he wants. I think his son will be drafted pretty early too

quote:

Originally posted by darkmoon:

PS. I bet you didn't like the more comprehensive data I've provided,

Can we get along now, or at least disagree in a more civil manner?

Actually, I am well aware of the statistics. Your little subset of numbers are not ones I am interested in - as you cannot even verify where someone is from. Basically worthless data IMO.

However, about a year ago- we had some fun with the MLB draft numbers by state. That would be the draft - since inception. MLB - The pinnacle of athletic baseball talent. Baseball America published a really great review - of the Facts.

What surprised me - more than anything - was the number of draft picks from NY and Illinois. I never realized - until I spent time with the facts - that the numbers were so high. I would have guessed that both states would have been middle of the pack at best.

In fact - they were both in the top 7 I believe, with NY at #4.
Of course - CA/TX and FLA were in the top. One would hope so for their sake given their populations and weather. LOL

As for civility - you have alot of work to do IMO. You might want to start by not calling people drug addicts, Nazi's and hypocrites. You may also want to stop calling out youth baseball players by name.

That doesnt play well here.

Good luck to you.

Darkmoon,

Did I ever say you don't have a right to your opinion? Did I get defensive or state that we do make mistakes at times.

I just would like to know who is stating the opinions, especially if negative, so that one can figure out if there is an agenda involved.

No one knows who you are darkmoon. If I slam someone on this sight, everyone knows who I am. We are not playing on equal ground.

For the umpteenth time... we are not perfect... we have been wrong before... we will be wrong again in the future. We will also be right a lot!

And I thought the IL forum was a little fruity the last couple of weeks. Nice thread.

Wow..after reading this thread, I am interested in a PG event (PGStaff..kudos for your well-written, thoughtful responses and numerous offers to darkmoon of personal contact), based on: 1) reputation of PG events among people posting on the hsbaseballweb.com; and 2) my son's love of the game and passion to play beyond high school. In fact, we are going to the January 14 event in St. Peters, MO...we are very excited!

I fully expect my son to be rated "fairly", based on his ability, performance, and (above all) his attitude that day. What if he has a bad day (it happens to everyone)? Oh well!!!! What happens if he has an exceptional day (it happens to everyone)? Oh well!!!! His performance will reflect his attitude but if he has a passed-ball, that PB is not nearly as important as how he overcomes the mistake and continues his performance.

I know absolutely nobody with the PG organization. I fully expect them to rate my son subjectively--that is, how THEY see HIM. Humans rating humans carries an element of subjectivity. Regardless of his rating, my son's attitude--how he reacts to the rating--makes more difference than the numbers.

At the end of the day, "attitude" defines a winner (on the field or in the message boards). Good luck to everyone--and Happy New Year!

Baseball Dad,

You wont be disappointed.

They are the best at what they do - IMO.

Good luck to your son!

We have all watched the ratings over the years and I think they are very acurate. It is ultimately the evaluation and rating of the college coach that matters most. PG's ratings can be used a number of ways to a coach. The "Ice Breaker" when a number jumps out at them, whether it's speed, velocity, pop time etc or as a means of cross checking. A coach may like what he sees, but wants to know if it was a fluke. How did he show at past events. The information can be invaluble.

It must be a darkmoon ( I know we have one with clouds all around us here) out there and we are not yet into the New Year---Good Golly Miss Molly--Do You Wanna Dance !!!

From one Baseballdad to another...

Perfect Game will most definitely rate your son fairly. My guy's only PG ID showcase was last March, at the end of a winter of very strenuous weightlifting. He went on a Saturday morning after beating himself up in the weight room the day before to an indoor event and hit well, ran normal and popped a 1.89 (a catcher) with a dead arm (he's a 1.8 flat quite often in games). Not his best day and not his worst. He rated a 9.0 that day. Is he better than that? I would say that he usually is, based on seeing him often against other catchers who play at the "national" level (PG events, East Coast Pro Showcase, etc.). On that day, however, I would say he was just a 9.0, and I love him!. The evaluators at ID showcase I believe were completely fair and objective. That's all you can ask for. While Perfect Game may not be perfect, as PG will tell you himself, the integrity of the organization cannot be questioned.

quote:

It is ultimately the evaluation and rating of the college coach that matters most.

Coach Merc - agree this is the ultimate criteria.

All that matters at the end of the day is that one college or pro scout likes you. It may be cool to say there are 20 that like you but all it takes is one. In fact, someone saying you are a college or pro player does not in fact make you one. You must get an offer or be drafted before that can occur. I see the ratings as a tool and as part of the process.

Beauty is purely in the eye of the beholder as well. Coaches and scouts value tools differently. Thus, just because a score did not show up necessarily the right way doesn't by a long shot mean the game is over.

The argument that it is flawed only has merit to the extent PG has acknowleged and that is that we are all human and make mistakes. In my view, it would be to their advantage to over-rate players rather than under-rate them. I for the life of me do not understand the counter-veiling arguments in this thread.

Coach Merc makes a great point.

My son was rated just about as low as any player could be.

He may have set the record for a PG event. LOL

But he signed early - got a nice scholly - played 2 summers in college ball - transferred - and got another nice scholly. And he is ready for yet another year of college ball and summer ball.

PG does a great job - they are right in the vast majority of cases - and their track record proves it.

If anyone was going to rail about PG - it would be me. But the facts are the facts - they are the best at what they do.

Personal disappointments have nothing to do whatsoever with PG's track record - which is unsurpassed by anyone in youth baseball scouting. IMO.

PG ratings is just a starting point.You use PG scouting report as a way to improve you game. If they say you need to get stronger and faster .. you get your self a trainer and you work and improve.
Unless they gave you a 10, every one must think they are under rated,

Baseballdad,
With the 9 rating, the fact your son is going to Wake Forest and we'll have to wait till June for any other opportunities, I guess they're on the money...They also continually state that their rating is not based soley on performance but projection.
It looks like the profile fits...I personally think your sons a great kid and a gentlemen...

Perfect Game USA's Player Ranking System
This is a new rating system that PG will be using for 2002 on.

10 -- Potential very high draft pick, Top DI in the nation prospect
9 -- Potential top 10 round pick, Top DI prospect
8 -- Potential mid round pick, definite DI prospect
7 -- Potential low round pick, DI prospect or top level Juco, DII
6 -- Possible DI prospect, definite DII or Juco prospect
5 -- Possible DII prospect or mid range Juco prospect
4 -- Possible low level DII or high level DIII prospect
3 -- Possible DIII or low level Juco prospect
2 -- Possible low level DIII prospect
1 -- No prospect at this time

Coach Merc,

Thanks Coach. You are a tremendous example of what's right with baseball. I have seen firsthand how you coach young men and teach baseball the right way with the Clippers. Joe's tremendous success and the respect he's earned from all who've competed against him through the years is a reflection of you, your family and your program. Congratulations. I look forward to reading about the next Mercurio on the horizon and following Joe's career at Illinois. Happy New Year!

MJM

Coach Merc and Baseballdad1228 - Congrats to both your sons Nice pictures of your boys up on the Frapper site as well Coach.

BB1228 - Wake has a freshman from Ohio named Cory Hindel who my son has played against many times over the years. He had a cannon for an arm at a very young age. I see Wake will be playing Coastal this year so maybe we can meet someday

I just wish we had more players (and parents) on this site who were rated really low - or who got hammered early in their college careers - and tried to make it work anyway - and then talked about it.

We dont get enough of that around here IMO.
We always seem to get the super success stories - but what about the rest?

And their attempts to recover?

There are very few IMO - (like me LOL) - that are willing to talk about that.

My guess is most people who have went through that just dont post anymore - and I think that is unfortunate.

There is alot to learn from all perspectives.

IMO.

CD,

We met Cory and his family on Mike's visit to Wake. Unfortunately, Cory injured his arm and required Tommy John Surgery. We hope for his full recovery.

It would be great to meet at a game down the road. I know fantastic places in Myrtle Beach (golf trip veteran) and should get to know Winston-Salem soon. Let's keep it in mind.

MJM

BB1228 - Sounds like a plan

Its - I was not trying to imply my son was some highly rated player. We never knew about showcasing and thus never attended one. I hear the frustration. I would say his (my son's)rating would thus be a zero and we had to literally fight for the very modest scholarship that he got. He is probably considered more of a sleeper type of a player because we didn't showcase. The one thing he did get was a chance at what both of us perceive to be a dream school and location. In the end, that is all we could ask for.

Cleveland,

In no way was my post meant to address you - or anyone else specifically.

It was a general thought - which hopefully will get more folks to post and participate.

Even if their stories are less than stellar.

As you know - I hope your son kicks butt from now until the day he decides he doesnt want to anymore.

Regards

itsinthegame,

quote:

or who got hammered early in their college careers - and tried to make it work anyway - and then talked about it.

Wish granted...
2003 Defensivly as a freshman in college my son led the SEC in passed balls.
2004 Offensively as a sophomore my son led the SEC in strikeouts.
2005 My son was selected as 1st team all SEC catcher.

I apologize. I didn't mean that to sound like I was upset - not in the least. We are both on the same page.

If you have a minute, drop down to the Ohio/Ky/Pa/Wv forum. We are having a conversation right now how both tone and content can be misinterpreted when you post

Fungo,

I hope alot of aspiring players read your brief summary.

That is what the game is all about IMO.

It's
(Paul), you know that there are bumps in the road. Your son is a very good player and like a lot of the kids up this way, they dream of the southern opportunity and it doesn't always work out. D's in a real good situation now and he'll end up on top again. Just think how much more we'll know with the second one...

I know I learned from your experiences and was very guarded when it came to certain situations. I can honestly say that what some of the kids from Westchester experienced definitely impacted the way I thought and for that I say "Thank You"
M

Coach M,

Those are very kind words and I thank you for them.

But I think that the folks in Westchester/Rockland/Dutchess/Putnam should pay very close attention to what you have to contribute. Especially if their kids have any ideas about doing what D did. I hope you get alot more people who value your contributions to the game to come to this website.

I also KNOW that Joe wont need any help - all he needs is a bat and a glove.

.

Itsinthegame....Fungo...

quote:

I just wish we had more players (and parents) on this site who were rated really low - or who got hammered early in their college careers - and tried to make it work anyway - and then talked about it.

We dont get enough of that around here IMO.
We always seem to get the super success stories - but what about the rest?

And their attempts to recover?

There are very few IMO - (like me LOL) - that are willing to talk about that.

My guess is most people who have went through that just dont post anymore - and I think that is unfortunate.

There is alot to learn from all perspectives.

This is simply a great post. I have been saying this for months. While I am genuinely happy to see the wonderful accomplishments of the truely gifted players...I want more stories about players who struggled and achieved. Players who refused to be left behind. Players who walked on....There is so much to be learned and emulated in such stories...

Thanks for sharing both of yours.

Observer, et al,

One of the biggest lessons I learned in my son's 1st college season is that my job had changed...dramatically...from telling him every thing that was wrong to telling him the things that he was doing right. This is because the successes are no longer automatic...the 'downs' early on are as frequent as the 'ups.'

What good would it do for his parent to do anything but encourage him and make sure he knew that tomorrow was a new day with an opportunity to redeem? We probably don't talk about it enough because its somewhat of a private thing...'tender' moments...never-to-be-spoken-again conversations. Its also an opportunity to come ever closer to your son.

Observer...as your son embarks upon his freshman season there will undoubdtedly be some high points (1st AB, 1st hit, 1st outing?), but there will be days very early on where you will pick him up and push him forward. Your job is changing now...I'm sure you know that...but just remember, its changing.

No matter what, remember that THIS YEAR is where you wanted to be 2-3 years ago. Have fun with it!

.

JB...

Great post. Thanks.

And Amen to your observations. They are great wisdom to all of us with sons off to college and prophetic observations to those on the way up...right you are...the times they certainly are a changin'. For example wrote this in my Xmas newsletter..."...finding it difficult to badger college coaches from 600 miles away..."

Along the lines of this thread....With the impossible step up from a tiny rural school to a top 50 DI, his is turning out to be a very interesting and very good story (and I love a good story..). While I will save the "son specific" details of the struggle for another post, I'll take your particular parental themed post to the next logical step, here is my current view/role as a parent. I hope it is a perspective that may be of value to others....

Yes, my role has changed...While I am always available, interested, and suggesting....He has non-verbally asked us to keep our distance..as a result I have purposely and respectfully kept my distance in order to let him have his run without my interference, or hand holding. Adimttedly though, I frequently and repeatedly catch myself trying desperately to connect too closely.

From my place at home, I am very sad as I have gone from being an active participant to be being a spectator, but am fascinated and in wonder 600 miles away, in my chair with a clicker, a computer and a cell phone, watching the boy becoming a man...and the kind of man I can respect and admire.

As I had hoped, despite the freshman struggles, he is beautifully controlling those things that he can: attitude, effort, fitness, perspective, grades, friendships, and not overly fretting the things that he can't: PT, perceptions, lack of speed and velocity, roomates, lack of sleep, inclusion on travel team, the struggles with changing mechanics, the unexpected addition of pitching duties.

It has always been my highest desire for him to experience the feeling and learning process afforded a college athlete. As you understand, the process has not been easy for any of us, but the experiences good and bad, the ups and downs he has already had in 4 months, the lessons he has learned, the experience for parents and player has been everything we had expected and more. I am here to tell you that is worth every dollar, every hour and stuggle, every sacrifice we made over the last 15 years.

JB, as the old year ends, the new one begins and baseball approaches I look forward to sharing our perceptions our thoughts and our stories. Thanks for being out there for all of us....

That was a classic observer44. Thanks for sharing.

It's always good to remember there was a very good reason your son was recruited at a top 50 D1. I am sure some of his strengths are weaknesses for other kids. It also sounds like he is willing to do whatever it takes for the betterment of the team which is a great leadership quality. I have found that these college coaches expect a lot out of our sons. Happy New Years

.

CD..

As always thanks. I look forward to a great year, sharing the freshman parent experience, watching your son achieve at Coastal and sharing some time at the regionals...

IMO, it is too bad this discussion is in a forum I don't usually visit. Maybe that was the idea? I really think the input and observations are so very much on point. When our sons get to college, they make a huge transition as a person, student and player. As parents, we can really struggle in our new role and with the distance involved. I completely support the idea that a parent cannot underestimate the quality of play they enounter and the physical and mental challenges they have to overcome. They likely will fail on a baseball field more than they ever have. You will know they are going to have more success as a player when they make the physical and mental adjustments necessary to again be successful. Feels even better when you know they have made it on their own.
Even though I don't have a college player any longer, I am counting the days for opening games of Coastal, UNLV and Stanford.